Alkalinity

[Paul]

How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.

[~ janj JJsPond.us]

>On Wed, 25 May 2005 23:48:19 -0400, "Paul" > wrote:

>How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.
>
Baking Soda. 1 cup/1,000 gallons and re-measure. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[George]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.

What is the measurement you are getting and how are you measuring it?

[Reel Mckoi]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.
===========================
If you have natural LIMESTONE in your area you can use that - but it doesn't
work as fast as Baking Soda. Care must be used with Baking Soda as it can
raise the PH quicker than the fish can adjust. Limestone will help keep the
PH from dropping again and it lasts just about forever.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Paul]

Using the test strips.
"George" > wrote in message
news:Ewqle.12407$g66.705@attbi_s71...
>
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
>> How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.
>
> What is the measurement you are getting and how are you measuring it?
>

[Paul]

Do i dissolve it in a bucket of pond water then put it in? Thanks
"~ janj JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >On Wed, 25 May 2005 23:48:19 -0400, "Paul" > wrote:
>
>>How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.
>>
> Baking Soda. 1 cup/1,000 gallons and re-measure. ~ jan
>
>
> See my ponds and filter design:
> www.jjspond.us
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website

[~ janj JJsPond.us]

>On Thu, 26 May 2005 23:49:53 -0400, "Paul" > wrote:

>Do i dissolve it in a bucket of pond water then put it in? Thanks

Yes, but what are your test strips reading? And are they fairly new? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[George]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> Using the test strips.
> "George" > wrote in message
> news:Ewqle.12407$g66.705@attbi_s71...
>>
>> "Paul" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.
>>
>> What is the measurement you are getting and how are you measuring it?
>>
>

What was the measurement that you got?

[Paul]

Yes, saying i'm low...........
"~ janj JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >On Thu, 26 May 2005 23:49:53 -0400, "Paul" > wrote:
>
>>Do i dissolve it in a bucket of pond water then put it in? Thanks
>
> Yes, but what are your test strips reading? And are they fairly new? ~
> jan
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[~ janj JJsPond.us]

>On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:55:40 -0400, "Paul" > wrote:

>Yes, saying i'm low...........

No number, just a color? ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Paul]

Yes, just a color comparison. After looking more closely, there are numbers
to go by. I would say I'm around 40-ppm Alkalinity. Should be at 120ppms
?????///
"~ janj JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:55:40 -0400, "Paul" > wrote:
>
>>Yes, saying i'm low...........
>
> No number, just a color? ~ jan
>
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Paul]

Around 40-ppms........Thanks
"George" > wrote in message
news:6_xle.10147$Is4.5411@attbi_s21...
>
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Using the test strips.
>> "George" > wrote in message
>> news:Ewqle.12407$g66.705@attbi_s71...
>>>
>>> "Paul" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.
>>>
>>> What is the measurement you are getting and how are you measuring it?
>>>
>>
>
> What was the measurement that you got?
>

[~ janj JJsPond.us]

>On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:51:03 -0400, "Paul" > wrote:

>Around 40-ppms........Thanks

I'd want to raise that too. :o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[George]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> Around 40-ppms........Thanks

That is a little low, but not dangerlously so. If it were me, I'd just add
some limestone rocks to the pond and leave it at that. I have a limestone
waterfall, and my general hardness stays right at 80 mg/L, which is normal
for freshwater ponds.

> "George" > wrote in message
> news:6_xle.10147$Is4.5411@attbi_s21...
>>
>> "Paul" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Using the test strips.
>>> "George" > wrote in message
>>> news:Ewqle.12407$g66.705@attbi_s71...
>>>>
>>>> "Paul" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> How do I raise the alkalinity content in my pond water, its low.
>>>>
>>>> What is the measurement you are getting and how are you measuring it?
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> What was the measurement that you got?
>>
>
>

[Reel McKoi]

"George" > wrote in message
news:vsKme.20927$IC6.144@attbi_s72...
>
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Around 40-ppms........Thanks
>
> That is a little low, but not dangerlously so. If it were me, I'd just
add
> some limestone rocks to the pond and leave it at that. I have a limestone
> waterfall, and my general hardness stays right at 80 mg/L, which is normal
> for freshwater ponds.
=======================
And they're totally safe. They raise it slowly and gradually - no shock to
the fish.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[George]

"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George" > wrote in message
> news:vsKme.20927$IC6.144@attbi_s72...
>>
>> "Paul" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Around 40-ppms........Thanks
>>
>> That is a little low, but not dangerlously so. If it were me, I'd just
> add
>> some limestone rocks to the pond and leave it at that. I have a
>> limestone
>> waterfall, and my general hardness stays right at 80 mg/L, which is
>> normal
>> for freshwater ponds.
> =======================
> And they're totally safe. They raise it slowly and gradually - no shock
> to
> the fish.
> --

Exactly. And the limestone keeps the alkalinity from falling.

[Paul]

Like how much Limestone. One big piece or smaller ones. Thanks...
"Courageous" > wrote in message
...
>
>>Exactly. And the limestone keeps the alkalinity from falling.
>
> In fact, the more that the alkalinity falls (i.e., the water is
> becoming acidic), the more likely the limestone will react with
> the acids in the water to, um, increase alkalinity.
>
> This is why certain fine organic sands are to be preferred in a
> marine environment, where higher alkalinity is particularly
> important.
>
> C//
>

[George]

"Courageous" > wrote in message
...
>
>>Exactly. And the limestone keeps the alkalinity from falling.
>
> In fact, the more that the alkalinity falls (i.e., the water is
> becoming acidic), the more likely the limestone will react with
> the acids in the water to, um, increase alkalinity.
>
> This is why certain fine organic sands are to be preferred in a
> marine environment, where higher alkalinity is particularly
> important.
>
> C//

In a marine environment, it is critical to have either aragonite sea sand
or a crushed coral substrate to prevent both Alkalinity and pH crashes.

[George]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> Like how much Limestone. One big piece or smaller ones. Thanks...
> "Courageous" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>>Exactly. And the limestone keeps the alkalinity from falling.
>>
>> In fact, the more that the alkalinity falls (i.e., the water is
>> becoming acidic), the more likely the limestone will react with
>> the acids in the water to, um, increase alkalinity.
>>
>> This is why certain fine organic sands are to be preferred in a
>> marine environment, where higher alkalinity is particularly
>> important.
>>
>> C//
>>

I don't know that there is a specific formula as not all limestone is the
same. Limestones vary greatly in their solubility and hardness. I have
about 300-400 lbs of it built up as a waterfall and for structural support
for my biofilter in one end my 1,400-gallon pond (although not all of it is
under water). Nearly all of it is dolomitic limestone (high magnesium
Limestone containing a significant fraction of dolomite), so it is harder
than pure limestone (which has calcite as a primary mineral) and has a
relatively low solubility. Even so, enough of it gets dissolved over time
that it keeps both the pH and the alkalinity in the proper ranges. Oh, and
always clean the rock before use.

[George]

"George" > wrote in message
news:iKdne.25983$IC6.13788@attbi_s72...
>
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Like how much Limestone. One big piece or smaller ones. Thanks...
>> "Courageous" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>>Exactly. And the limestone keeps the alkalinity from falling.
>>>
>>> In fact, the more that the alkalinity falls (i.e., the water is
>>> becoming acidic), the more likely the limestone will react with
>>> the acids in the water to, um, increase alkalinity.
>>>
>>> This is why certain fine organic sands are to be preferred in a
>>> marine environment, where higher alkalinity is particularly
>>> important.
>>>
>>> C//
>>>
>
> I don't know that there is a specific formula as not all limestone is the
> same. Limestones vary greatly in their solubility and hardness. I have
> about 300-400 lbs of it built up as a waterfall and for structural
> support for my biofilter in one end my 1,400-gallon pond (although not
> all of it is under water). Nearly all of it is dolomitic limestone (high
> magnesium Limestone containing a significant fraction of dolomite), so it
> is harder than pure limestone (which has calcite as a primary mineral)
> and has a relatively low solubility. Even so, enough of it gets
> dissolved over time that it keeps both the pH and the alkalinity in the
> proper ranges. Oh, and always clean the rock before use.

Oh yea, and you should have these rocks in an area where water can flow
over them. It helps.

[Hal]

On Tue, 31 May 2005 23:04:13 -0400, "Paul" >
wrote:

>Like how much Limestone. One big piece or smaller ones. Thanks...
>"Courageous" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Exactly. And the limestone keeps the alkalinity from falling.
>>
>> In fact, the more that the alkalinity falls (i.e., the water is
>> becoming acidic), the more likely the limestone will react with
>> the acids in the water to, um, increase alkalinity.

I've learned different people seem to have a little different
experience and I'd like to share mine. I've been using ground garden
limestone from the garden shop for a number of years. I place about
2 or 3 cups in a sock, tie the top and toss it into the flow of the
water going through the filter. I also add another couple cups
around the pond. The reason for the other couple cups is limestone
doesn't dissolve quickly like baking soda and quite frankly is a bit
frightening after a heavy rain. (Limestone dissolves in less than pH
7.8.) I just don't get the KH readings I feel I should, probably
because the limestone is working so slowly. My normal pH readings
are 7.8 to 8.2 and KH drops after a rain, sometimes as low as one
degree, (1 degree = 17.9 ppm.) but the pH never goes below 7.0 and the
fish don't seem to mind. In fact the seem more active after a rain
nibbling at the liner and collar stones they haven't been able to
reach before.

Regards,

Hal

[Courageous]

>Exactly. And the limestone keeps the alkalinity from falling.

In fact, the more that the alkalinity falls (i.e., the water is
becoming acidic), the more likely the limestone will react with
the acids in the water to, um, increase alkalinity.

This is why certain fine organic sands are to be preferred in a
marine environment, where higher alkalinity is particularly
important.

C//

[~ janj JJsPond.us]

>My normal pH readings
>are 7.8 to 8.2 and KH drops after a rain, sometimes as low as one
>degree, (1 degree = 17.9 ppm.) but the pH never goes below 7.0

What time of day did you get this reading? Early morning, right before
dawn gives the lowest reading. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[George]

"Hal" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 31 May 2005 23:04:13 -0400, "Paul" >
> wrote:
>
>>Like how much Limestone. One big piece or smaller ones. Thanks...
>>"Courageous" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Exactly. And the limestone keeps the alkalinity from falling.
>>>
>>> In fact, the more that the alkalinity falls (i.e., the water is
>>> becoming acidic), the more likely the limestone will react with
>>> the acids in the water to, um, increase alkalinity.
>
> I've learned different people seem to have a little different
> experience and I'd like to share mine. I've been using ground garden
> limestone from the garden shop for a number of years. I place about
> 2 or 3 cups in a sock, tie the top and toss it into the flow of the
> water going through the filter. I also add another couple cups
> around the pond. The reason for the other couple cups is limestone
> doesn't dissolve quickly like baking soda and quite frankly is a bit
> frightening after a heavy rain. (Limestone dissolves in less than pH
> 7.8.) I just don't get the KH readings I feel I should, probably
> because the limestone is working so slowly. My normal pH readings
> are 7.8 to 8.2 and KH drops after a rain, sometimes as low as one
> degree, (1 degree = 17.9 ppm.) but the pH never goes below 7.0 and the
> fish don't seem to mind. In fact the seem more active after a rain
> nibbling at the liner and collar stones they haven't been able to
> reach before.
>
> Regards,
>
> Hal

That is normal. And a 17.0 ppm drop in your alkalinity is nothing to be
worried about as long as it is in the normal range to begin with(~80 ppm).

[Hal]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:10:44 -0700, ~ janj JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>>My normal pH readings
>>are 7.8 to 8.2 and KH drops after a rain, sometimes as low as one
>>degree, (1 degree = 17.9 ppm.) but the pH never goes below 7.0
>
>What time of day did you get this reading? Early morning, right before
>dawn gives the lowest reading. ~ jan

I don't recall the time of day, just that it was after heavy rain and
rain has become acid here. Most days early pH readings are 7.6 to
7.8 and I call them 7.8 because that is where it is going even if it
is 7.6. I think limestone is slow, but so far it has been very
reliable.

Regards,

Hal

[Hal]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:05:35 GMT, " George"
> wrote:

>That is normal. And a 17.0 ppm drop in your alkalinity is nothing to be
>worried about as long as it is in the normal range to begin with(~80 ppm).

You must be right, but baking soda gives higher readings much sooner.
I couldn't keep the numbers up with baking soda though. I even tried
double and triple dosing, but it was gone in a week. After the bout
with string algae I gave up on baking soda and plaster of Paris. I
just use limestone and ignore the numbers until they look better. :)

Regards,

Hal

[George]

"Hal" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:05:35 GMT, " George"
> > wrote:
>
>>That is normal. And a 17.0 ppm drop in your alkalinity is nothing to be
>>worried about as long as it is in the normal range to begin with(~80
>>ppm).
>
> You must be right, but baking soda gives higher readings much sooner.
> I couldn't keep the numbers up with baking soda though. I even tried
> double and triple dosing, but it was gone in a week. After the bout
> with string algae I gave up on baking soda and plaster of Paris. I
> just use limestone and ignore the numbers until they look better. :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Hal

Baking soda is a temperary solution, at best. Adding limestone rocks to
your water flow is the best solution, IMHO. By the way, alkalinity has
little affect on string algae, since it is present as a result of high
nutrient load in the water (aka, high nitrate concentrations).

[~ janj JJsPond.us]

>Baking soda is a temperary solution, at best. Adding limestone rocks to
>your water flow is the best solution, IMHO. By the way, alkalinity has
>little affect on string algae, since it is present as a result of high
>nutrient load in the water (aka, high nitrate concentrations).
>
Alkalinity does have an affect if the pH is too high or too low, most water
plants that we use take up nutrients best when pH is 7.2 to 8.2, even the
bacteria in our filters and our ponds work best between those numbers.
Thus, if your pond is 8.5 and the desirable plants are not absorbing the
majority of nutrients, one is going to have more problems with algae.
There is always some type of algae that can live in whatever extreme our
ponds are in, but they can't survive (as well) without a food supply. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[George]

"~ janj JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >Baking soda is a temperary solution, at best. Adding limestone rocks to
>>your water flow is the best solution, IMHO. By the way, alkalinity has
>>little affect on string algae, since it is present as a result of high
>>nutrient load in the water (aka, high nitrate concentrations).
>>
> Alkalinity does have an affect if the pH is too high or too low, most
> water
> plants that we use take up nutrients best when pH is 7.2 to 8.2, even the
> bacteria in our filters and our ponds work best between those numbers.
> Thus, if your pond is 8.5 and the desirable plants are not absorbing the
> majority of nutrients, one is going to have more problems with algae.
> There is always some type of algae that can live in whatever extreme our
> ponds are in, but they can't survive (as well) without a food supply. ~
> jan
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Here is a good article that discusses the relationship between alkalinity
and pH:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2002/chem.htm

My statement above made the assumption that the pH was stable at the
appropriate levels.