Relaxing to watch?

[Dick]

Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.

Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
found lots of pockets of stress also.

[Drawn2hockey]

Wow...I recommend stamp collecting.


"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>
> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> found lots of pockets of stress also.

[bettasngoldfish]

Dick, I totally agree with you on this one. I suppose if I only had
one tank I may get more relaxation out of it but with nine tanks its a
bit more work and worry than one would think. Now I am not saying I
don't want them just that its quite a bit of work to keep everyone
happy and healthy. Of course, its also a part of my personality to
worry and fuss over things. Some people are just not wired the same
way.

Maria

[Elaine T]

Dick wrote:
> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>
> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> found lots of pockets of stress also.

I do the quick check and head cound during the morning feeding. I
decide if anything needs to be done, and when I'm going to do it. For
the rest of the day, watching the tanks is quite relaxing.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
> Dick wrote:
> > Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> > fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> > say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> > for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> > feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> > eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> > trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> > right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> > are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> > tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
> >
> > Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> > found lots of pockets of stress also.
>
> I do the quick check and head cound during the morning feeding. I
> decide if anything needs to be done, and when I'm going to do it. For
> the rest of the day, watching the tanks is quite relaxing.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Guilty - I do find my tanks relaxing to watch....I also find the
cleaning/water changes can be theraputic (but maybe I'm just sad - lol)

I do as per Elaine, check the fish at feedtimes - do a quick head count and
health check (morning and night) the stress only comes into it if something
is awry - which can be an ongoing saga....as I have learnt...

My father came down to stay for a week last month and spent most of his time
just watching the fish....totally relaxed. I did attempt to get him going
with the algae scraper but to no avail....now every time he phones he asks
after them almost before asking after us - lol

Gill

[Daniel Morrow]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dick wrote:
> > > Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> > > fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> > > say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> > > for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> > > feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> > > eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> > > trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> > > right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> > > are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> > > tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
> > >
> > > Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> > > found lots of pockets of stress also.
> >
> > I do the quick check and head cound during the morning feeding. I
> > decide if anything needs to be done, and when I'm going to do it. For
> > the rest of the day, watching the tanks is quite relaxing.
> >
> > --
> > Elaine T __
> > http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> > rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
> Guilty - I do find my tanks relaxing to watch....I also find the
> cleaning/water changes can be theraputic (but maybe I'm just sad - lol)
>
> I do as per Elaine, check the fish at feedtimes - do a quick head count
and
> health check (morning and night) the stress only comes into it if
something
> is awry - which can be an ongoing saga....as I have learnt...
>
> My father came down to stay for a week last month and spent most of his
time
> just watching the fish....totally relaxed. I did attempt to get him going
> with the algae scraper but to no avail....now every time he phones he asks
> after them almost before asking after us - lol
>
> Gill
>
>

I agree with elaine and gill. My high blood pressure and weight have gone
down since I started keeping fish. Now I weigh approximately 210 pounds down
from 257 1-2 years ago and my blood pressure is much lower (still on blood
pressure medication just in case though), and I have a height of 6 feet and
2.5 inches so that weight looks good now that it is lower than before. Now I
have to admit against my point that I started blood pressure medicine around
the time I started fishkeeping but that doesn't necessarily explain the
weight loss so I think my point still stands and my doctor seems to think
that as well. I haven't specifically asked him whether my blood pressure
medication causes weight loss but at the same time I am also taking other
mediation which causes weight gain so I am currently explaining my weight
loss as a result of fish keeping and the fishkeeping might be causing my
blood pressure to go down (hence - MIGHT). I don't do a head count on my
fish unless they're the silver dollars as 1 - I have so many guppies it
wouldn't be doable, 2 - there are so many guppies in the silver dollar tank
that counting the white cloud mountain minnows wouldn't be possible, 3 - I
know that the fancy guppies and white cloud mountain minnows are short lived
so I expect to lose one every once in a while and I just need to keep
disease away as much as reasonably possible. Boy - those silver dollars are
big and long lived fish, fun to watch plus I can tell visitors they're
piranhas! My understanding is that silver dollars are related to piranhas
but they have evolved into eating plants (herbivore) instead of meat and I
image that the amazon river where they originate from has plenty of aquatic
plants for the silver dollars to eat too. Later!

[Bill Stock]

"bettasngoldfish" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dick, I totally agree with you on this one. I suppose if I only had
> one tank I may get more relaxation out of it but with nine tanks its a
> bit more work and worry than one would think. Now I am not saying I
> don't want them just that its quite a bit of work to keep everyone
> happy and healthy. Of course, its also a part of my personality to
> worry and fuss over things. Some people are just not wired the same
> way.
>
> Maria

Wow 9 tanks!

I'm finding 3 tanks and the pond all I want right now. And the Betta tank
really isn't any work at all.

[Celtic Wanderer]

I with Elaine on this one. I do a quick head cout before I feed my fist,
then once the food is in, I sit back for a good 10 to 15 minutes just
watching.

Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got my 62" tv
in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me and life is good. Now
I have some enjoyable to watch during commericals.

--
Celtic Wanderer
http://home.comcast.net/~Celtic_wanderer



"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>
> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> found lots of pockets of stress also.

[Peter in New Zealand]

Celtic Wanderer wrote:
> I with Elaine on this one. I do a quick head cout before I feed my fist,
> then once the food is in, I sit back for a good 10 to 15 minutes just
> watching.
>
> Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got my 62" tv
> in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me and life is good. Now
> I have some enjoyable to watch during commericals.
>
Gee, I don't even need to look at my tank - I get stressed out just
reading this newsgroup.

[Peter in New Zealand]

Peter in New Zealand wrote:
> Celtic Wanderer wrote:
>
>> I with Elaine on this one. I do a quick head cout before I feed my
>> fist, then once the food is in, I sit back for a good 10 to 15 minutes
>> just watching.
>>
>> Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got my
>> 62" tv in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me and life
>> is good. Now I have some enjoyable to watch during commericals.
>>
> Gee, I don't even need to look at my tank - I get stressed out just
> reading this newsgroup.
>
Apologies, my sig somehow fell off the bottom of that post.

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.

[[email protected]]

Pretty new here. I've been feeling my way long for the last 7 weeks or
so. At this point I have two cylced tanks, a 10 and a 55. I have been
through a few fish, and it has been fairly stressful. The big tank is
down to 6 cory's and a pair of ottos right now. They are all doing
great, and it truly is relaxing to get home late at night, plop in my
chair and watch the great time that they have frolicking About. The 10
is housing 4 clown loaches that I am trying to treat for ich before
they go into the big tank. I have already have poor luck with clowns,
but I really like them and am determined to get a group of them into
the 55 gallon tank all in one piece sooner or later. Anyway, after that
I'd like to get about 12-15 neon tetras and a few Danios and hopefully
sit back with a well stocked and well functioning aquarium for some
real relaxation...

Bill

[NetMax]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>
> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> found lots of pockets of stress also.

I'm not very earnest about maintenance, and I like to have several tanks
running, so my solution is to simplify and automate as much as possible.
Their lights are on timers and once every month (or two), I mix various
fish foods and fill up the automatic feeders. I try to keep large tanks,
and light fish-load with either lots of species diversity or species
tanks (I find these two extremes work best). Once a month, a little
cleaning, and gravel vacuuming on *some* weekends. My only 'chore'
during the week is to glance at a tank when I hear the automatic feeder
running (checking to see if it drops any food, though the fish have
various methods to let me know when their feeder has gone empty ;~).

In other days, I've had much higher maintenance tanks which were fine
too, just depends on what suits you at the time. Malawi tanks are not
usually 'relaxing' and are more entertaining than anything else :o).

Right now, my tanks are set up so that I can travel for a couple of weeks
without worrying. The end result is that I mostly just relax when I'm
watching them. The other day I was looking up at the tank (from the
floor resting between stretch exercises) and I noticed that all the fish
were upside-down (naturally, from my angle) except the Monos who looked
perfectly upright because they are almost 100% symmetrical about their
lateral line. It actually looked very odd to see a mix of fish behaving
so normally, though most appeared to be upside-down! I definitely fall
into the relaxing category (when I'm in-between set-up challenges ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Ozdude]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>
> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> found lots of pockets of stress also.

I am the same Dick: Constantly vigilant. Occasionally I watch the tank like
a TV and a smile comes to the face when the fish do something - like the
Phantom and Serpae Tetra "dancing", but it quite often is over-ridden by
errant BATs or Barbs and observing and counting.

I am learning more about species behaviour than "relaxing", to be honest.

I am also guessing that the non-relaxing is due to the fact we are aware
that the tank is actually an artificial re-creation of a natural environment
and that at any time, anything could happen.

It just demonstrates care, commitment and compassion to me, as we are fully
aware of the responsibility (and cost) of maintaining this environment.

You've just reminded me too - I really must go and siphon the gravel and
change some water in the big tank - this is what happens if you try to
"relax", in my experience - always something to do/monitor/observe. It was
so much more simple in the 1970's when I last did this ;) Perhaps the
evolution of the hobby since that time hasn't done anything more than cause
more angst and cost? The price of being informed I wonder? ;)

Regards,

Oz

[Billy]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
>> Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got
>> my 62" tv in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me
>> and life is good. Now I have some enjoyable to watch during
>> commericals.
>>
> Gee, I don't even need to look at my tank - I get stressed out just
> reading this newsgroup.


I got stressed out hearing about a 62" television.......

[Scott]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>
> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> found lots of pockets of stress also.

To each his own, I guess. When I come home from work, I get cleaned up etc
etc... And then I do my aquarium maintenance. About an hour a night is
spent feeding, cleaning, water changing, and watching the fish... and I find
it quite relaxing and a good way to wind down after a long day at work. My
schedule at it is so consistent that the fish are under the feeding ring
that I have floating in one corner of the tank at the same time every night.
It is really funny to watch ALL of the fish school off to one corner and
wait to be fed.

---scott

[Dick]

On 5 Jun 2005 06:54:11 -0700, "bettasngoldfish"
> wrote:

>Dick, I totally agree with you on this one. I suppose if I only had
>one tank I may get more relaxation out of it but with nine tanks its a
>bit more work and worry than one would think. Now I am not saying I
>don't want them just that its quite a bit of work to keep everyone
>happy and healthy. Of course, its also a part of my personality to
>worry and fuss over things. Some people are just not wired the same
>way.
>
>Maria

I too recognize this is part of my nature. I had a boss once ask me
why I always brought "bad" things to his attention, and never had
anything good to say about the company. I told him the good things
didn't need to be fixed. I also start fixing problems with the fear
that I will never get it right.

I guess you and I have similar wiring! <g>

dick

[Dick]

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 17:05:47 GMT, Elaine T >
wrote:

>Dick wrote:
>> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
>> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
>> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
>> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
>> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
>> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
>> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
>> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
>> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
>> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>>
>> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
>> found lots of pockets of stress also.
>
>I do the quick check and head cound during the morning feeding. I
>decide if anything needs to be done, and when I'm going to do it. For
>the rest of the day, watching the tanks is quite relaxing.

I recheck every time I look. However, something is good about having
the tanks. I wouldn't get rid of even one voluntarily.

I am really surprised at the number of responses. I guess once again
we show how are caring varies.

dick

[Dick]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:47:10 +0100, "Gill Passman"
<gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
>> Dick wrote:
>> > Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
>> > fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
>> > say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
>> > for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
>> > feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
>> > eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
>> > trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
>> > right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
>> > are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
>> > tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>> >
>> > Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
>> > found lots of pockets of stress also.
>>
>> I do the quick check and head cound during the morning feeding. I
>> decide if anything needs to be done, and when I'm going to do it. For
>> the rest of the day, watching the tanks is quite relaxing.
>>
>> --
>> Elaine T __
>> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>Guilty - I do find my tanks relaxing to watch....I also find the
>cleaning/water changes can be theraputic (but maybe I'm just sad - lol)
>
>I do as per Elaine, check the fish at feedtimes - do a quick head count and
>health check (morning and night) the stress only comes into it if something
>is awry - which can be an ongoing saga....as I have learnt...
>
>My father came down to stay for a week last month and spent most of his time
>just watching the fish....totally relaxed. I did attempt to get him going
>with the algae scraper but to no avail....now every time he phones he asks
>after them almost before asking after us - lol
>
>Gill
>

Maybe "ignorance is bliss" in the sense that your father is not aware
of what is needed to keep those tanks relaxing and has no desire to
find out.

dick

[Dick]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:00:40 -0400, "Celtic Wanderer"
> wrote:

>I with Elaine on this one. I do a quick head cout before I feed my fist,
>then once the food is in, I sit back for a good 10 to 15 minutes just
>watching.
>
>Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got my 62" tv
>in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me and life is good. Now
>I have some enjoyable to watch during commericals.

I too find I am watching my tanks frequently, the act is obviously
important to me, but it is the worry is more obvious than the
relaxation. I envy people who know the good and don't focus on the
bad.

[Dick]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:14:22 +1200, Peter in New Zealand
> wrote:

>Celtic Wanderer wrote:
>> I with Elaine on this one. I do a quick head cout before I feed my fist,
>> then once the food is in, I sit back for a good 10 to 15 minutes just
>> watching.
>>
>> Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got my 62" tv
>> in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me and life is good. Now
>> I have some enjoyable to watch during commericals.
>>
>Gee, I don't even need to look at my tank - I get stressed out just
>reading this newsgroup.

Wow, you have a bigger problem than I do, thanks for balancing things
for me.

I am so surprised at the number and variety of responses I am reading
this morning. How fun to know each of you a bit more.

dick

[Dick]

On 5 Jun 2005 18:44:39 -0700, wrote:

>Pretty new here. I've been feeling my way long for the last 7 weeks or
>so. At this point I have two cylced tanks, a 10 and a 55. I have been
>through a few fish, and it has been fairly stressful. The big tank is
>down to 6 cory's and a pair of ottos right now. They are all doing
>great, and it truly is relaxing to get home late at night, plop in my
>chair and watch the great time that they have frolicking About. The 10
>is housing 4 clown loaches that I am trying to treat for ich before
>they go into the big tank. I have already have poor luck with clowns,
>but I really like them and am determined to get a group of them into
>the 55 gallon tank all in one piece sooner or later. Anyway, after that
>I'd like to get about 12-15 neon tetras and a few Danios and hopefully
>sit back with a well stocked and well functioning aquarium for some
>real relaxation...
>
>Bill

Ah, yes, I too can escape the stress review when I see my fish
obviously playing. I get a kick at feeding times when the whole tank
turns out trying to get my attention. Its like my 2 dogs suddenly
surrounding me, pushing my hand with a nose. At first I think "how
nice they want my attention", but a look at the clock and I know what
they really want. I still get a kick at their efforts, and I do
respond and fill the food bowls and put the fish food into the tanks.

Great to feel needed! <g>

Sorry about your Clown problem. The first 6 Clowns I received via
over night male had Ich. I had my 75 gallon tank only a few months.
It was filled with assorted species and I worried that the ich would
spread. The Ich didn't spread. A phone call confirmed that the
Clowns were not supposed to have been shipped due to the Ich. I was
told it would be a few weeks before 6 more would be sent (actually
they sent 7). They had a new shipment, but wanted to observe the new
Clowns before shipping them to me. Two of the original 6 got well, I
destroyed the other 4 as they were just so weak looking and I knew the
new shipment was coming. Well worth the trouble, but lots of stress.


dick

dick

[Dick]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:45:29 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
>> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
>> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
>> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
>> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
>> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
>> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
>> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
>> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
>> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>>
>> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
>> found lots of pockets of stress also.
>
>I'm not very earnest about maintenance, and I like to have several tanks
>running, so my solution is to simplify and automate as much as possible.
>Their lights are on timers and once every month (or two), I mix various
>fish foods and fill up the automatic feeders. I try to keep large tanks,
>and light fish-load with either lots of species diversity or species
>tanks (I find these two extremes work best). Once a month, a little
>cleaning, and gravel vacuuming on *some* weekends. My only 'chore'
>during the week is to glance at a tank when I hear the automatic feeder
>running (checking to see if it drops any food, though the fish have
>various methods to let me know when their feeder has gone empty ;~).
>
>In other days, I've had much higher maintenance tanks which were fine
>too, just depends on what suits you at the time. Malawi tanks are not
>usually 'relaxing' and are more entertaining than anything else :o).
>
>Right now, my tanks are set up so that I can travel for a couple of weeks
>without worrying. The end result is that I mostly just relax when I'm
>watching them. The other day I was looking up at the tank (from the
>floor resting between stretch exercises) and I noticed that all the fish
>were upside-down (naturally, from my angle) except the Monos who looked
>perfectly upright because they are almost 100% symmetrical about their
>lateral line. It actually looked very odd to see a mix of fish behaving
>so normally, though most appeared to be upside-down! I definitely fall
>into the relaxing category (when I'm in-between set-up challenges ;~).

Hi Netmax,

I too watch my fish from the floor while doing exercises. Early in
the morning they are not too active.

I have minimum maintenance habits as well, lights are on a timer, but
that doesn't mean I am not looking for problems all day long. Born to
suffer! <g>

I am interested in your automatic feeder. I bought one early on to
experiment with, but it was not reliable, the flakes would get damp
and clogged the exit. What is your secret?

dick

[Dick]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:06:22 +1000, "Ozdude" >
wrote:

>
>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
>> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
>> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
>> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
>> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
>> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
>> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
>> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
>> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
>> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>>
>> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
>> found lots of pockets of stress also.
>
>I am the same Dick: Constantly vigilant. Occasionally I watch the tank like
>a TV and a smile comes to the face when the fish do something - like the
>Phantom and Serpae Tetra "dancing", but it quite often is over-ridden by
>errant BATs or Barbs and observing and counting.
>
>I am learning more about species behaviour than "relaxing", to be honest.
>
>I am also guessing that the non-relaxing is due to the fact we are aware
>that the tank is actually an artificial re-creation of a natural environment
>and that at any time, anything could happen.
>
>It just demonstrates care, commitment and compassion to me, as we are fully
>aware of the responsibility (and cost) of maintaining this environment.
>
>You've just reminded me too - I really must go and siphon the gravel and
>change some water in the big tank - this is what happens if you try to
>"relax", in my experience - always something to do/monitor/observe. It was
>so much more simple in the 1970's when I last did this ;) Perhaps the
>evolution of the hobby since that time hasn't done anything more than cause
>more angst and cost? The price of being informed I wonder? ;)
>
>Regards,
>
>Oz
>
I have long suspected we were "birds of a feather Oz. I love to watch
the fish behaviour, especially when it doesn't fit the "expected." I
love to add to a post describing behaviour different than I
experience. It intrigues me to know that fish can be individuals.

I wonder if we too do "relax," but don't sense it in that way. I have
an 95 year old friend that is always "happy." I mean if I ask how she
is she is always feeling happy. I can see it in her face and in her
wit. What a blessing!

But we worriers must be getting a reward no matter what we call it or
how we describe it. I just had trouble with the word "relaxing" and
yet I watch my tanks all day long (pretty much a hermit, good thing I
have to out to get the mail from the post office and buy groceries!)

Being human is strange. I watch my fish and wonder how they can be
satisfied to live in those constraining tanks, I get bored in my well
outfitted house and yard, I know my 2 dogs get bored and look to me to
entertain. I can't find enough interesting things to do to pass my
own time, how can the dogs expect me to help them. (Right now I am
getting cold noses reminding me it is time to fill the food dishes.)

Isn't it great, Oz, that so many of our fish net family have taken a
few minutes to respond to this thread. I am delighted (whoops, Ruby
the Greyhound is whispering in my ear, "feed me").

dick

[Dick]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:38:48 -0400, "Scott" <smaxell1{at}hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
>> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
>> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
>> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
>> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
>> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
>> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
>> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
>> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
>> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>>
>> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
>> found lots of pockets of stress also.
>
>To each his own, I guess. When I come home from work, I get cleaned up etc
>etc... And then I do my aquarium maintenance. About an hour a night is
>spent feeding, cleaning, water changing, and watching the fish... and I find
>it quite relaxing and a good way to wind down after a long day at work. My
>schedule at it is so consistent that the fish are under the feeding ring
>that I have floating in one corner of the tank at the same time every night.
>It is really funny to watch ALL of the fish school off to one corner and
>wait to be fed.
>
>---scott
>

I get that schooling to the corner mostly in my 75 gallon tank and in
the morning, but I too enjoy watching them swirl around.

I remember someone long ago commenting that she did a partial water
change every night when she came home because it was so "relaxing."
To me it is a chore and I have the routine down to minimum, Tuesdays
and Fridays I change water with a bucket and syphon in the 3 ten
gallon tanks. Wednesdays and Saturdays I hook up the Gravel Vac and
change water in the 75 and 29 gallon tanks. I don't try to clean the
gravel. I just start the syphon and go to my computer and play
Solitaire until it is time to reverse the flow and fill the tank.

I can identify more with "enjoyment" more than "relaxing". Kind of
makes me wonder if we all experience the same sensation when we speak
of the color "red." Do we all have the same mental experience?

dick

[Dick]

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 05:24:06 -0500, Dick >
wrote:

>Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
>fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
>say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
>for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
>feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
>eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
>trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
>right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
>are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
>tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>
>Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
>found lots of pockets of stress also.


I can't believe the fantastic responses to my post. My friends, you
have once more shown how unique we all are. Like our fish friends we
live different lives and meet at this crossroads to share and care.

Thanks to everyone for being there! <g>

dick

[Dick]

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 07:05:29 -0400, "Drawn2hockey" > wrote:

>Wow...I recommend stamp collecting.
>
Tried that as a kid, not my thing. Not enough problems I guess! <g>
>
>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
>> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
>> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
>> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
>> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
>> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
>> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
>> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
>> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
>> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>>
>> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
>> found lots of pockets of stress also.
>

[Dick]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:14:22 +1200, Peter in New Zealand
> wrote:

>Celtic Wanderer wrote:
>> I with Elaine on this one. I do a quick head cout before I feed my fist,
>> then once the food is in, I sit back for a good 10 to 15 minutes just
>> watching.
>>
>> Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got my 62" tv
>> in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me and life is good. Now
>> I have some enjoyable to watch during commericals.
>>
>Gee, I don't even need to look at my tank - I get stressed out just
>reading this newsgroup.


I wonder what we all mean when we say we feel stressed or relaxed.
Perhaps, Peter, we are not having the same experience. I get excited
about getting the computer up in the morning. First thing I want to
do is read what has been posted in the newsgroup. I feel no threat,,
I don't "have" to do anything. I read a post and am flooded with
reactions and want to share.

Perhaps you are joking, I hope so.

dick

[Dick]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:06:22 +1000, "Ozdude" >
wrote:

>
>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
>> fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
>> say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
>> for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
>> feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
>> eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
>> trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
>> right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
>> are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
>> tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
>>
>> Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
>> found lots of pockets of stress also.
>
>I am the same Dick: Constantly vigilant. Occasionally I watch the tank like
>a TV and a smile comes to the face when the fish do something - like the
>Phantom and Serpae Tetra "dancing", but it quite often is over-ridden by
>errant BATs or Barbs and observing and counting.
>
>I am learning more about species behaviour than "relaxing", to be honest.
>
>I am also guessing that the non-relaxing is due to the fact we are aware
>that the tank is actually an artificial re-creation of a natural environment
>and that at any time, anything could happen.
>
>It just demonstrates care, commitment and compassion to me, as we are fully
>aware of the responsibility (and cost) of maintaining this environment.
>
>You've just reminded me too - I really must go and siphon the gravel and
>change some water in the big tank - this is what happens if you try to
>"relax", in my experience - always something to do/monitor/observe. It was
>so much more simple in the 1970's when I last did this ;) Perhaps the
>evolution of the hobby since that time hasn't done anything more than cause
>more angst and cost? The price of being informed I wonder? ;)
>
>Regards,
>
>Oz
>

I had forgotten an old saying of mine, "Man is a problem solving
animal. Take away his problems and you take away his reason for
living."

I guess I was really talking about me.

Every morning is a rush: turn on the computer, shave, check the new
stuff on the computer, finances, news, email (ick), weather,
newsgroups, etc. Exercise, feed dogs, feed fish, feed dick, do dishes
and make a pot of coffee. When I set down in my rocking chair with a
fresh pot of coffee and a good book, I feel a rush of tension leaving
my body. To me, that is the most relaxing moment of the day. It
doesn't last long, the rush that is, but it is special, not passive at
all.

I get the feeling, that those that feel relaxation watching the fish
experience a passive feeling. Perhaps I am wrong, or perhaps I have
not given the right word to that morning rush I feel setting down in
my reading mode.

dick

[NetMax]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:45:29 -0400, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Dick" > wrote in message
<snip>
>
> I am interested in your automatic feeder. I bought one early on to
> experiment with, but it was not reliable, the flakes would get damp
> and clogged the exit. What is your secret?
>
> dick

Secrets? ;~) ....nah, just some techniques you might find helpful.

I mix micro to small granules (pellets), with flake food which I crunch up a
bit. This mixture goes into a larger fish food container with a silica (?)
pad on top (a moisture absorbent found in some fish food and other
packages). I refill the feeders from this mix as required. At the feeders,
I make sure the aperture is wide enough to have sufficient flow. They
operate twice a day. With enough daily flow/movement, the food does not
stick from the humidity. The mixture of pellets & flakes also seems to
eliminate clogging. The worst I find is when empty, there might be a few
flakes fastened inside the drum, but so far this hasn't interfered with the
operation. The smaller your tank (the less food being dispensed), the more
you will have problems, so increase the ratio of pellets to flakes to reduce
sticking or jamming.

My experience is with 3 feeders, all from Hagen, 2 of their digital model
designs (the green fully programmable and the black model). My
understanding is that they are not the worst or best feeders on the market,
so ymmv with these.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Gill Passman]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 05:24:06 -0500, Dick >
> wrote:
>
> >Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> >fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> >say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> >for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> >feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> >eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> >trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank temperature
> >right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> >are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> >tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
> >
> >Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> >found lots of pockets of stress also.
>
>
> I can't believe the fantastic responses to my post. My friends, you
> have once more shown how unique we all are. Like our fish friends we
> live different lives and meet at this crossroads to share and care.
>
> Thanks to everyone for being there! <g>
>
> dick

Actually after today (another Mollie loss) I'm going to slightly change my
response - relaxing when all is well, stressful when you have a
problem......big relief when you eventually suss the problem (Matt's tank -
stuck thermostat, broken thermometer)

Gill

[Gill Passman]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Dick wrote:
> > > > Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> > > > fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> > > > say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> > > > for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> > > > feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> > > > eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> > > > trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank
temperature
> > > > right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights
working
> > > > are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> > > > tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> > > > found lots of pockets of stress also.
> > >
> > > I do the quick check and head cound during the morning feeding. I
> > > decide if anything needs to be done, and when I'm going to do it. For
> > > the rest of the day, watching the tanks is quite relaxing.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Elaine T __
> > > http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> > > rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
> >
> > Guilty - I do find my tanks relaxing to watch....I also find the
> > cleaning/water changes can be theraputic (but maybe I'm just sad - lol)
> >
> > I do as per Elaine, check the fish at feedtimes - do a quick head count
> and
> > health check (morning and night) the stress only comes into it if
> something
> > is awry - which can be an ongoing saga....as I have learnt...
> >
> > My father came down to stay for a week last month and spent most of his
> time
> > just watching the fish....totally relaxed. I did attempt to get him
going
> > with the algae scraper but to no avail....now every time he phones he
asks
> > after them almost before asking after us - lol
> >
> > Gill
> >
> >
>
> I agree with elaine and gill. My high blood pressure and weight have gone
> down since I started keeping fish. Now I weigh approximately 210 pounds
down
> from 257 1-2 years ago and my blood pressure is much lower (still on blood
> pressure medication just in case though), and I have a height of 6 feet
and
> 2.5 inches so that weight looks good now that it is lower than before. Now
I
> have to admit against my point that I started blood pressure medicine
around
> the time I started fishkeeping but that doesn't necessarily explain the
> weight loss so I think my point still stands and my doctor seems to think
> that as well. I haven't specifically asked him whether my blood pressure
> medication causes weight loss but at the same time I am also taking other
> mediation which causes weight gain so I am currently explaining my weight
> loss as a result of fish keeping and the fishkeeping might be causing my
> blood pressure to go down (hence - MIGHT). I don't do a head count on my
> fish unless they're the silver dollars as 1 - I have so many guppies it
> wouldn't be doable, 2 - there are so many guppies in the silver dollar
tank
> that counting the white cloud mountain minnows wouldn't be possible, 3 - I
> know that the fancy guppies and white cloud mountain minnows are short
lived
> so I expect to lose one every once in a while and I just need to keep
> disease away as much as reasonably possible. Boy - those silver dollars
are
> big and long lived fish, fun to watch plus I can tell visitors they're
> piranhas! My understanding is that silver dollars are related to piranhas
> but they have evolved into eating plants (herbivore) instead of meat and I
> image that the amazon river where they originate from has plenty of
aquatic
> plants for the silver dollars to eat too. Later!
>
>
My blood pressure went up after the 3rd tank (or was it the 4th?) - but I
think that is coincidence (family history and all that - can't blame it on
the fish)......btw the first medication I got put on was a diuretic - if
that is what you've got it might explain the weight loss....but just
guessing here.

[Gill Passman]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:47:10 +0100, "Gill Passman"
> <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Elaine T" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Dick wrote:
> >> > Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> >> > fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but to
> >> > say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are searching
> >> > for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> >> > feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> >> > eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> >> > trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank
temperature
> >> > right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights working
> >> > are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> >> > tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
> >> >
> >> > Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> >> > found lots of pockets of stress also.
> >>
> >> I do the quick check and head cound during the morning feeding. I
> >> decide if anything needs to be done, and when I'm going to do it. For
> >> the rest of the day, watching the tanks is quite relaxing.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Elaine T __
> >> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> >> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
> >
> >Guilty - I do find my tanks relaxing to watch....I also find the
> >cleaning/water changes can be theraputic (but maybe I'm just sad - lol)
> >
> >I do as per Elaine, check the fish at feedtimes - do a quick head count
and
> >health check (morning and night) the stress only comes into it if
something
> >is awry - which can be an ongoing saga....as I have learnt...
> >
> >My father came down to stay for a week last month and spent most of his
time
> >just watching the fish....totally relaxed. I did attempt to get him going
> >with the algae scraper but to no avail....now every time he phones he
asks
> >after them almost before asking after us - lol
> >
> >Gill
> >
>
> Maybe "ignorance is bliss" in the sense that your father is not aware
> of what is needed to keep those tanks relaxing and has no desire to
> find out.
>
> dick

I think he got enough of an idea of the amount of work to make him decide
just to watch videos of my tanks rather than buying his own - lol. He was
staying during the post Ich clean-up....not only did I have the Community
tank to clean up but also had to play catch up on all of the others....

I remember the days when I used to just look at other peoples tanks and not
think of all the work involved (or even consider it)....now those were
"relaxing tanks" - :-)

Gill

[Peter in New Zealand]

Dick wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:14:22 +1200, Peter in New Zealand
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Celtic Wanderer wrote:
>>
>>>I with Elaine on this one. I do a quick head cout before I feed my fist,
>>>then once the food is in, I sit back for a good 10 to 15 minutes just
>>>watching.
>>>
>>>Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got my 62" tv
>>>in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me and life is good. Now
>>>I have some enjoyable to watch during commericals.
>>>
>>
>>Gee, I don't even need to look at my tank - I get stressed out just
>>reading this newsgroup.
>
>
>
> I wonder what we all mean when we say we feel stressed or relaxed.
> Perhaps, Peter, we are not having the same experience. I get excited
> about getting the computer up in the morning. First thing I want to
> do is read what has been posted in the newsgroup. I feel no threat,,
> I don't "have" to do anything. I read a post and am flooded with
> reactions and want to share.
>
> Perhaps you are joking, I hope so.
>
> dick

Joking? Natch! Used to run a few tropical tanks many years ago. In those
days asking for an aquarium heater in a pet shop sometimes made the shop
assistant suggest trying the camping store next door for a small cooker
to put under the tank - this really did happen to me once!! sic transit
gloria!

My wife passed away late last year and my son and I have set up a medium
sized goldfish aquarium as a sort of father/son project together. It's
heaps of fun and we paugh at it a lot (and our amateur efforts as well).
It's sure different to tropicals. At the moment I tend to rush into the
room every mornig and spend the next ten minutes glaring into the tank
looking for little warning signs that we have mucked up somewhere. This
will pass I am sure.

In the meantime we get lots of laughs, a few frustrations, and lots of
quality time together stressing out about what could go wrong until we
get the hang of it all.

So I was partly joking - I do stress out some mornings when I can't see
the bug eyed moor, who likes hiding in the little sunken ship. I swear
he only does it to annoy us. He just doesn't show up in there until I
get the torch and discover him. Then he swims out gracefully with a sort
of "gotcha again eh!" attitude and demands breakfast. I think the other
two fish regard him as a bit of a poser. We christened him Jar Jar Binks
because of his eyes.

Anyway, thanks for putting up with this rather personal and aimless
ramble. Not sure if I've infringed the OT convention - if so please
forgive me. It's just good to be able to ramble on with others who are
obviously keen enthusiasts on the subject.

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.

[Gill Passman]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
> Dick wrote:
> > On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:14:22 +1200, Peter in New Zealand
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Celtic Wanderer wrote:
> >>
> >>>I with Elaine on this one. I do a quick head cout before I feed my
fist,
> >>>then once the food is in, I sit back for a good 10 to 15 minutes just
> >>>watching.
> >>>
> >>>Then when finally sit down at night in my favorite chair, I've got my
62" tv
> >>>in front of me and my 29 gallon tank right next to me and life is good.
Now
> >>>I have some enjoyable to watch during commericals.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Gee, I don't even need to look at my tank - I get stressed out just
> >>reading this newsgroup.
> >
> >
> >
> > I wonder what we all mean when we say we feel stressed or relaxed.
> > Perhaps, Peter, we are not having the same experience. I get excited
> > about getting the computer up in the morning. First thing I want to
> > do is read what has been posted in the newsgroup. I feel no threat,,
> > I don't "have" to do anything. I read a post and am flooded with
> > reactions and want to share.
> >
> > Perhaps you are joking, I hope so.
> >
> > dick
>
> Joking? Natch! Used to run a few tropical tanks many years ago. In those
> days asking for an aquarium heater in a pet shop sometimes made the shop
> assistant suggest trying the camping store next door for a small cooker
> to put under the tank - this really did happen to me once!! sic transit
> gloria!
>
> My wife passed away late last year and my son and I have set up a medium
> sized goldfish aquarium as a sort of father/son project together. It's
> heaps of fun and we paugh at it a lot (and our amateur efforts as well).
> It's sure different to tropicals. At the moment I tend to rush into the
> room every mornig and spend the next ten minutes glaring into the tank
> looking for little warning signs that we have mucked up somewhere. This
> will pass I am sure.
>
> In the meantime we get lots of laughs, a few frustrations, and lots of
> quality time together stressing out about what could go wrong until we
> get the hang of it all.
>
> So I was partly joking - I do stress out some mornings when I can't see
> the bug eyed moor, who likes hiding in the little sunken ship. I swear
> he only does it to annoy us. He just doesn't show up in there until I
> get the torch and discover him. Then he swims out gracefully with a sort
> of "gotcha again eh!" attitude and demands breakfast. I think the other
> two fish regard him as a bit of a poser. We christened him Jar Jar Binks
> because of his eyes.
>
> Anyway, thanks for putting up with this rather personal and aimless
> ramble. Not sure if I've infringed the OT convention - if so please
> forgive me. It's just good to be able to ramble on with others who are
> obviously keen enthusiasts on the subject.
>
> --
> Peter in New Zealand.
> Pull the plug out to reply.

I'm very sorry to hear about your wife :-(

I hope that joining us in our inane drivel and plus the sensible stuff will
support you as much as it does me....I would never have met any of our
friends on this group through normal social life, those with a common
interest and care....I think it is great that we can chat as well as discuss
our fishies....

Welcome to the group Peter, I hope that we hear lots from you :-)

Gill

[[email protected]]

Dick wrote:

<<Sorry about your Clown problem. The first 6 Clowns I received via
over night male had Ich. I had my 75 gallon tank only a few months.
It was filled with assorted species and I worried that the ich would
spread. The Ich didn't spread. A phone call confirmed that the
Clowns were not supposed to have been shipped due to the Ich. I was
told it would be a few weeks before 6 more would be sent (actually
they sent 7). They had a new shipment, but wanted to observe the new
Clowns before shipping them to me. Two of the original 6 got well, I
destroyed the other 4 as they were just so weak looking and I knew the
new shipment was coming. Well worth the trouble, but lots of stress.
>>

Thanks. I am on the verge of having all four pull through. The spots
are almost gone and all four clowns are still very active, they even
seem to be enjoying their new home. I know I already said it, but I
really like them. I think they may just about be out of "the woods."

Bill

[Daniel Morrow]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Dick" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:45:29 -0400, "NetMax"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>"Dick" > wrote in message
> <snip>
> >
> > I am interested in your automatic feeder. I bought one early on to
> > experiment with, but it was not reliable, the flakes would get damp
> > and clogged the exit. What is your secret?
> >
> > dick
>
> Secrets? ;~) ....nah, just some techniques you might find helpful.
>
> I mix micro to small granules (pellets), with flake food which I crunch up
a
> bit. This mixture goes into a larger fish food container with a silica
(?)
> pad on top (a moisture absorbent found in some fish food and other
> packages). I refill the feeders from this mix as required. At the
feeders,
> I make sure the aperture is wide enough to have sufficient flow. They
> operate twice a day. With enough daily flow/movement, the food does not
> stick from the humidity. The mixture of pellets & flakes also seems to
> eliminate clogging. The worst I find is when empty, there might be a few
> flakes fastened inside the drum, but so far this hasn't interfered with
the
> operation. The smaller your tank (the less food being dispensed), the
more
> you will have problems, so increase the ratio of pellets to flakes to
reduce
> sticking or jamming.
>
> My experience is with 3 feeders, all from Hagen, 2 of their digital model
> designs (the green fully programmable and the black model). My
> understanding is that they are not the worst or best feeders on the
market,
> so ymmv with these.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

My secret is to position the automatic feeder 14 inches above the surface of
the water and this totally prevents clogging. How do I get it in that
position? I mount the automatic feeder to a 5 inch by 15 inch pane of glass
and lean it against the side of the aquarium and put something heavy against
the protruding glass at the base of the aquarium, works perfect and I can
even test it by leaving a flat piece of surface like a smooth peace of wood
or glass or plastic under the automatic feeder to catch anything that comes
out then after that dump it all into the tank so the fish don't miss a
feeding. The smooth surface of the material will easily show how much food
came out of the automatic feeder and you can use plywood, etc. as the
"extension" to mount the automatic feeder to and lean against the tank, I
use glass myself though as I can see into the tank through it easier as
well, but do what you want. Later!

[Daniel Morrow]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
> > .. .
> > >
> > > "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Dick wrote:
> > > > > Every so often someone mentions how relaxing it is to watch their
> > > > > fish. It strikes me as odd to say such. I do enjoy my fish, but
to
> > > > > say it is relaxing? While I look at the fish my eyes are
searching
> > > > > for possible ill fish, any fin nipping, any signs that I am over
> > > > > feeding, are all the fish getting something to eat, are they all
> > > > > eating normal, do I need to clean the filters, do plants need
> > > > > trimming, are the filter impellers running ok, is the tank
> temperature
> > > > > right, any algae growth needing attention, are all the lights
> working
> > > > > are all the air pumps running, do I need to clean off any of the
> > > > > tanks' glass or frame, is it time to do water changes, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Somewhere in between such searches, I do find enjoyment, but have
> > > > > found lots of pockets of stress also.
> > > >
> > > > I do the quick check and head cound during the morning feeding. I
> > > > decide if anything needs to be done, and when I'm going to do it.
For
> > > > the rest of the day, watching the tanks is quite relaxing.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Elaine T __
> > > > http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> > > > rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
> > >
> > > Guilty - I do find my tanks relaxing to watch....I also find the
> > > cleaning/water changes can be theraputic (but maybe I'm just sad -
lol)
> > >
> > > I do as per Elaine, check the fish at feedtimes - do a quick head
count
> > and
> > > health check (morning and night) the stress only comes into it if
> > something
> > > is awry - which can be an ongoing saga....as I have learnt...
> > >
> > > My father came down to stay for a week last month and spent most of
his
> > time
> > > just watching the fish....totally relaxed. I did attempt to get him
> going
> > > with the algae scraper but to no avail....now every time he phones he
> asks
> > > after them almost before asking after us - lol
> > >
> > > Gill
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I agree with elaine and gill. My high blood pressure and weight have
gone
> > down since I started keeping fish. Now I weigh approximately 210 pounds
> down
> > from 257 1-2 years ago and my blood pressure is much lower (still on
blood
> > pressure medication just in case though), and I have a height of 6 feet
> and
> > 2.5 inches so that weight looks good now that it is lower than before.
Now
> I
> > have to admit against my point that I started blood pressure medicine
> around
> > the time I started fishkeeping but that doesn't necessarily explain the
> > weight loss so I think my point still stands and my doctor seems to
think
> > that as well. I haven't specifically asked him whether my blood pressure
> > medication causes weight loss but at the same time I am also taking
other
> > mediation which causes weight gain so I am currently explaining my
weight
> > loss as a result of fish keeping and the fishkeeping might be causing my
> > blood pressure to go down (hence - MIGHT). I don't do a head count on my
> > fish unless they're the silver dollars as 1 - I have so many guppies it
> > wouldn't be doable, 2 - there are so many guppies in the silver dollar
> tank
> > that counting the white cloud mountain minnows wouldn't be possible, 3 -
I
> > know that the fancy guppies and white cloud mountain minnows are short
> lived
> > so I expect to lose one every once in a while and I just need to keep
> > disease away as much as reasonably possible. Boy - those silver dollars
> are
> > big and long lived fish, fun to watch plus I can tell visitors they're
> > piranhas! My understanding is that silver dollars are related to
piranhas
> > but they have evolved into eating plants (herbivore) instead of meat and
I
> > image that the amazon river where they originate from has plenty of
> aquatic
> > plants for the silver dollars to eat too. Later!
> >
> >
> My blood pressure went up after the 3rd tank (or was it the 4th?) - but I
> think that is coincidence (family history and all that - can't blame it on
> the fish)......btw the first medication I got put on was a diuretic - if
> that is what you've got it might explain the weight loss....but just
> guessing here.
>
>

You could very well be right. I don't know a whole lot about what I am on
except the basics. Later!

[Dick]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:30:24 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:45:29 -0400, "NetMax"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Dick" > wrote in message
><snip>
>>
>> I am interested in your automatic feeder. I bought one early on to
>> experiment with, but it was not reliable, the flakes would get damp
>> and clogged the exit. What is your secret?
>>
>> dick
>
>Secrets? ;~) ....nah, just some techniques you might find helpful.
>
>I mix micro to small granules (pellets), with flake food which I crunch up a
>bit. This mixture goes into a larger fish food container with a silica (?)
>pad on top (a moisture absorbent found in some fish food and other
>packages). I refill the feeders from this mix as required. At the feeders,
>I make sure the aperture is wide enough to have sufficient flow. They
>operate twice a day. With enough daily flow/movement, the food does not
>stick from the humidity. The mixture of pellets & flakes also seems to
>eliminate clogging. The worst I find is when empty, there might be a few
>flakes fastened inside the drum, but so far this hasn't interfered with the
>operation. The smaller your tank (the less food being dispensed), the more
>you will have problems, so increase the ratio of pellets to flakes to reduce
>sticking or jamming.
>
>My experience is with 3 feeders, all from Hagen, 2 of their digital model
>designs (the green fully programmable and the black model). My
>understanding is that they are not the worst or best feeders on the market,
>so ymmv with these.

Netmax, sorry, I started a new thread before I got to yours. Thanks
for getting one started. I looked under the "relaxation" thread and
was afraid the question got lost.

I don't have a LFS I can walk into and compare feeders. The one I did
try is a "Fish Mate F14." In addition to clogging, it doesn't
dispense much food and barely fit in the space at the back of the 75
gallon tank. Space is a problem for me. I barely have room for the 5
tanks. Perhaps my case is hopeless. I am not so handy as you and
Daniel seem to be.

In what ways do the various feeders differ? Do you like any better
than the Hagens? You say they are neither "worst or best."

dick

[Daniel Morrow]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Dick" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:45:29 -0400, "NetMax"
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>"Dick" > wrote in message
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > I am interested in your automatic feeder. I bought one early on to
> > > experiment with, but it was not reliable, the flakes would get damp
> > > and clogged the exit. What is your secret?
> > >
> > > dick
> >
> > Secrets? ;~) ....nah, just some techniques you might find helpful.
> >
> > I mix micro to small granules (pellets), with flake food which I crunch
up
> a
> > bit. This mixture goes into a larger fish food container with a silica
> (?)
> > pad on top (a moisture absorbent found in some fish food and other
> > packages). I refill the feeders from this mix as required. At the
> feeders,
> > I make sure the aperture is wide enough to have sufficient flow. They
> > operate twice a day. With enough daily flow/movement, the food does not
> > stick from the humidity. The mixture of pellets & flakes also seems to
> > eliminate clogging. The worst I find is when empty, there might be a
few
> > flakes fastened inside the drum, but so far this hasn't interfered with
> the
> > operation. The smaller your tank (the less food being dispensed), the
> more
> > you will have problems, so increase the ratio of pellets to flakes to
> reduce
> > sticking or jamming.
> >
> > My experience is with 3 feeders, all from Hagen, 2 of their digital
model
> > designs (the green fully programmable and the black model). My
> > understanding is that they are not the worst or best feeders on the
> market,
> > so ymmv with these.
> > --
> > www.NetMax.tk
> >
> >
>
> My secret is to position the automatic feeder 14 inches above the surface
of
> the water and this totally prevents clogging. How do I get it in that
> position? I mount the automatic feeder to a 5 inch by 15

Actually it's a 5 inch by 2 foot piece of glass normally used for covering
tanks with (under the light). I am using the plain old cheap penn plax daily
double automatic feeders. I did try a lazy susan fish hopper (now sold by
rainbow lifeguard) for a while but without a air pump pumping air into the
unit to dislodge food from the feeder the feeder doesn't hold enough food in
it's individual feeding "pockets" for the powdered or otherwise flake food
to fall through. Summary - the lazy susan fish hopper food isn't heavy
enough for the food to fall through via force of gravity. Later!

[Dick]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:41:34 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "NetMax" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > "Dick" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:45:29 -0400, "NetMax"
>> > > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>"Dick" > wrote in message
>> > <snip>
>> > >
>> > > I am interested in your automatic feeder. I bought one early on to
>> > > experiment with, but it was not reliable, the flakes would get damp
>> > > and clogged the exit. What is your secret?
>> > >
>> > > dick
>> >
>> > Secrets? ;~) ....nah, just some techniques you might find helpful.
>> >
>> > I mix micro to small granules (pellets), with flake food which I crunch
>up
>> a
>> > bit. This mixture goes into a larger fish food container with a silica
>> (?)
>> > pad on top (a moisture absorbent found in some fish food and other
>> > packages). I refill the feeders from this mix as required. At the
>> feeders,
>> > I make sure the aperture is wide enough to have sufficient flow. They
>> > operate twice a day. With enough daily flow/movement, the food does not
>> > stick from the humidity. The mixture of pellets & flakes also seems to
>> > eliminate clogging. The worst I find is when empty, there might be a
>few
>> > flakes fastened inside the drum, but so far this hasn't interfered with
>> the
>> > operation. The smaller your tank (the less food being dispensed), the
>> more
>> > you will have problems, so increase the ratio of pellets to flakes to
>> reduce
>> > sticking or jamming.
>> >
>> > My experience is with 3 feeders, all from Hagen, 2 of their digital
>model
>> > designs (the green fully programmable and the black model). My
>> > understanding is that they are not the worst or best feeders on the
>> market,
>> > so ymmv with these.
>> > --
>> > www.NetMax.tk
>> >
>> >
>>
>> My secret is to position the automatic feeder 14 inches above the surface
>of
>> the water and this totally prevents clogging. How do I get it in that
>> position? I mount the automatic feeder to a 5 inch by 15
>
>Actually it's a 5 inch by 2 foot piece of glass normally used for covering
>tanks with (under the light). I am using the plain old cheap penn plax daily
>double automatic feeders. I did try a lazy susan fish hopper (now sold by
>rainbow lifeguard) for a while but without a air pump pumping air into the
>unit to dislodge food from the feeder the feeder doesn't hold enough food in
>it's individual feeding "pockets" for the powdered or otherwise flake food
>to fall through. Summary - the lazy susan fish hopper food isn't heavy
>enough for the food to fall through via force of gravity. Later!
>

You certainly understand the problem. I googled "penn plax" and found
plenty of sources for $30. The descriptive text sounds good. I will
order one and experiement.

Thanks

dick

[Daniel Morrow]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:41:34 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > "Dick" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> > > On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:45:29 -0400, "NetMax"
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>"Dick" > wrote in message
> >> > <snip>
> >> > >
> >> > > I am interested in your automatic feeder. I bought one early on to
> >> > > experiment with, but it was not reliable, the flakes would get damp
> >> > > and clogged the exit. What is your secret?
> >> > >
> >> > > dick
> >> >
> >> > Secrets? ;~) ....nah, just some techniques you might find helpful.
> >> >
> >> > I mix micro to small granules (pellets), with flake food which I
crunch
> >up
> >> a
> >> > bit. This mixture goes into a larger fish food container with a
silica
> >> (?)
> >> > pad on top (a moisture absorbent found in some fish food and other
> >> > packages). I refill the feeders from this mix as required. At the
> >> feeders,
> >> > I make sure the aperture is wide enough to have sufficient flow.
They
> >> > operate twice a day. With enough daily flow/movement, the food does
not
> >> > stick from the humidity. The mixture of pellets & flakes also seems
to
> >> > eliminate clogging. The worst I find is when empty, there might be a
> >few
> >> > flakes fastened inside the drum, but so far this hasn't interfered
with
> >> the
> >> > operation. The smaller your tank (the less food being dispensed),
the
> >> more
> >> > you will have problems, so increase the ratio of pellets to flakes to
> >> reduce
> >> > sticking or jamming.
> >> >
> >> > My experience is with 3 feeders, all from Hagen, 2 of their digital
> >model
> >> > designs (the green fully programmable and the black model). My
> >> > understanding is that they are not the worst or best feeders on the
> >> market,
> >> > so ymmv with these.
> >> > --
> >> > www.NetMax.tk
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> My secret is to position the automatic feeder 14 inches above the
surface
> >of
> >> the water and this totally prevents clogging. How do I get it in that
> >> position? I mount the automatic feeder to a 5 inch by 15
> >
> >Actually it's a 5 inch by 2 foot piece of glass normally used for
covering
> >tanks with (under the light). I am using the plain old cheap penn plax
daily
> >double automatic feeders. I did try a lazy susan fish hopper (now sold by
> >rainbow lifeguard) for a while but without a air pump pumping air into
the
> >unit to dislodge food from the feeder the feeder doesn't hold enough food
in
> >it's individual feeding "pockets" for the powdered or otherwise flake
food
> >to fall through. Summary - the lazy susan fish hopper food isn't heavy
> >enough for the food to fall through via force of gravity. Later!
> >
>
> You certainly understand the problem. I googled "penn plax" and found
> plenty of sources for $30. The descriptive text sounds good. I will
> order one and experiement.
>
> Thanks
>
> dick

You're very welcome dick. :) I get mine from that pet place (
www.thatpetplace.com ) for $19.99 (if you include shipping it would be just
under $30.00 as you have found). Later!:)

[Ozdude]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> I have long suspected we were "birds of a feather Oz. I love to watch
> the fish behaviour, especially when it doesn't fit the "expected." I
> love to add to a post describing behaviour different than I
> experience. It intrigues me to know that fish can be individuals.

I agree!. They are are single entitites/existences to me personally. They
fit a species behaviour pattern, in general, but there are definatley
indiduals amongst the groups. My two female Dwarf Gouramis are a case in
point - one is a dyke I'm sure ;), as she has faint colour markings like the
male and doesn't side up to him as much as the other pure silver lady, for a
bit of egg squeezing. She is also more aggressive in the male sense, with
the other fish in the community and she also "displays" to the other female
on occasion.

I have several Serpae that are definate individuals, and there the same can
be said for a couple of the Black Phantoms. The Serpae remind me of little
cats (terrestrial ones of the feline) and the Phantoms remind me of minature
Orca.

Another observation I have made is that the more agressive and noted species
for fin nipping etc., aren't actually "pre-programmed" that way it seems,
but rather, they seem to be protecting territory and "testing" the strength
of an invader to their space. I have fish species and numbers in one tank
that, if you read clinically, you would say would be possible trouble - I
have 3 male Tiger Barbs, 5 BATs and 9 Serpae all basically ignoring, and
showing very little aggression to any of the Neons, Swords, Gouamis,
Pristellas etc. so ultimately I have to say YMMV ;)

>
> I wonder if we too do "relax," but don't sense it in that way. I have
> an 95 year old friend that is always "happy." I mean if I ask how she
> is she is always feeling happy. I can see it in her face and in her
> wit. What a blessing!

The great thing about people such as this is that it's not an exclusive to
them. We are all actually capable of reasonable happiness. It's not about
attaining happiness actually, it's more about the ability to lessen
suffering (in it's infinate forms).

I am betting this lady is also apparently very confident and "sure" of
herself too?

In regards to tanks, I think I am able to say I am generally relaxed, no
matter what I am doing - even if it's a tank break (as happened a while
ago), it isn't as it seems, and that's the secret really - distinguishing
what is, from what you think something is. Once the modal thought changes
from "I am what I think" to "I am what ever is", a great natural peace
comes.

I can use the example of the tank cracking for you - I was eager to populate
this tank, which was given to me, so I filled it 50% after placing it on a
coffee table (first problem - grasping in the form of imapatience, second
problem - ignorance of the felxiblility of glass).

I filled it half way with water over new washed substarate, and all was
well. I planted it with plants from my old tank right next to it and filled
to the top water level. I turned the heaters on, sat back on my lounge and
"relaxed" watching all the oxygen bubble off and observing - projecting what
it would look like with the fish I had in the other tank in the new tank.

Whilst I was "relaxing" I tired not to worry about the fact that the tank
was over hanging the ends of the table by about 10 cm and though to leave it
over night in any case to make sure. Well, I didn't have to wait that long.
All of a sudden there was a loud crack/bang and water started streaming from
below the tank, down the back and all over the power strip I had stupidly
scewed to the under side of the table........to cut a long story
short........on first rising of thought about this it appeared to be a
disaster, but within moments I was actually smiling because what had
actually happened was a lesson and an opportunity opening up.

The end result was I discovered about glass and how inflexible it actually
is. The location of the tank in the first instance was wrong for several
reasons, chief amongst them, light, electrical and relational. The
understanding that a good stand will save many years of worry and many other
things.

The opportunity came in the form of learning to repair a glass aquarium
(didin't happen in the end because custom glass is 3 times the cost of a new
same sized aquarium), the chance to brush up on wood working skills lost
ages ago to build a proper stand and time to reconsider the best place for a
220L, 4 foot tank in my room.

So now my tank is on the oppostie side of the room, near water and power,
away from sun light and windows. It's on a solid low stand and it sits
properly on a foam base on a stand situated properly on the floor joists
(thats 350kg the floor has to support). I switched to a canister filter a
while ago too and I can say I spend proportionally more time "relaxing"
about the tank than I do worrying about it. In real short - I got it right
from the mistakes of the fist "disaster".

Oh, and I also got an opportunity to mop the lounge room floor when the
other tank broke ;)

Sorry for the long personal story there, but my point, I guess is to just
say that true happiness comes from the inside and nowhere else. It's not
essentially what you think, but rather, how you think, that makes a huge
difference.

Aquariums have helped me personally to change the way I think as well,
becuase I figure there is only so much you can technically do before you
have to mentally 'let it go' and chill about it. If something doesn't work,
then that's an opportunity to learn and refine, persist and suceed. Patience
Grasshopper! :)
>
> But we worriers must be getting a reward no matter what we call it or
> how we describe it. I just had trouble with the word "relaxing" and
> yet I watch my tanks all day long (pretty much a hermit, good thing I
> have to out to get the mail from the post office and buy groceries!)

Studies have shown that watching gentle things like aquariums is good for
you, so I wouldn't worry too much. As long as your thoughts don't run off
beyond observation, then I think we can all "relax". I know I do lately, as
your orignal post alerted me to my modal thinking when dealing with my
tanks. FYI I don't chemically test my water regularly these days - only if
something strange happens. Too much information can spoil the hobby in my
experience. I was told one by the LFS#1 guy that I would kill my fish with
kindness if I didn't back off a bit.
>
> Being human is strange. I watch my fish and wonder how they can be
> satisfied to live in those constraining tanks, I get bored in my well
> outfitted house and yard, I know my 2 dogs get bored and look to me to
> entertain. I can't find enough interesting things to do to pass my
> own time, how can the dogs expect me to help them. (Right now I am
> getting cold noses reminding me it is time to fill the food dishes.)

There was something on TV here recently, on the news, about some parasite or
virus and they were showing tanks full of Honey Gouamis and I wondered how
they could keep so many males in one sterile tank like that - I came to the
conclusion that the fish weren't concerned about the conatiner probably, as
much as they were concerned about all the other males around them - in other
words they were distracted.

Then I saw an episode of a show called "Mythbusters" where they were testing
the myth that Goldfish have "3 second" memories - the myth was busted btw.
they are quite capable of retentive memory - BUT, in the lead to the main
story they were talking to a fish research guy who stated that from his
measurements, over 60% of fish in home aquaria were simply bored!

This why I do a do a couple of things for fish - I move ornaments and plants
around and change the flow patterns and I try to provide opposite sex
partners for every one in the tank. It's the best I can do for them in such
a limited space and especially seeing I am actually "Big Brother" :)

>
> Isn't it great, Oz, that so many of our fish net family have taken a
> few minutes to respond to this thread. I am delighted (whoops, Ruby
> the Greyhound is whispering in my ear, "feed me").

It is great. It's a side of the hobby which isn't much recognised or talked
about in the hobby. It's usually the subject of scientific curiosity.

I say you could do worse - like caging birds that need vast enviroments to
fly, for instance ;)

Oz

[Dick]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:41:44 +1000, "Ozdude" >
wrote:

>
>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> I have long suspected we were "birds of a feather Oz. I love to watch
>> the fish behaviour, especially when it doesn't fit the "expected." I
>> love to add to a post describing behaviour different than I
>> experience. It intrigues me to know that fish can be individuals.
>
>I agree!. They are are single entitites/existences to me personally. They
>fit a species behaviour pattern, in general, but there are definatley
>indiduals amongst the groups. My two female Dwarf Gouramis are a case in
>point - one is a dyke I'm sure ;), as she has faint colour markings like the
>male and doesn't side up to him as much as the other pure silver lady, for a
>bit of egg squeezing. She is also more aggressive in the male sense, with
>the other fish in the community and she also "displays" to the other female
>on occasion.
>
>I have several Serpae that are definate individuals, and there the same can
>be said for a couple of the Black Phantoms. The Serpae remind me of little
>cats (terrestrial ones of the feline) and the Phantoms remind me of minature
>Orca.
>
>Another observation I have made is that the more agressive and noted species
>for fin nipping etc., aren't actually "pre-programmed" that way it seems,
>but rather, they seem to be protecting territory and "testing" the strength
>of an invader to their space. I have fish species and numbers in one tank
>that, if you read clinically, you would say would be possible trouble - I
>have 3 male Tiger Barbs, 5 BATs and 9 Serpae all basically ignoring, and
>showing very little aggression to any of the Neons, Swords, Gouamis,
>Pristellas etc. so ultimately I have to say YMMV ;)
>
>>
>> I wonder if we too do "relax," but don't sense it in that way. I have
>> an 95 year old friend that is always "happy." I mean if I ask how she
>> is she is always feeling happy. I can see it in her face and in her
>> wit. What a blessing!
>
>The great thing about people such as this is that it's not an exclusive to
>them. We are all actually capable of reasonable happiness. It's not about
>attaining happiness actually, it's more about the ability to lessen
>suffering (in it's infinate forms).

I recall animal conditioning studies where a probe was inserted into a
specific area of the brain and stimulated when the animal did the
"right" thing. The conclusion being it was a "pleasure" center.

More recently depressed people are being treated with drugs which
increase the brain's dopamine (?) to change their mood.

A "calm" mood is my best maintained condition. Enthusiasm is a
reward. Problems always start with "fear" which I suspect equates to
the "flight" part of "fight" responses. I really had a hard time
believing people that always reported being "happy," but all of the
brain research seems to lead to the possibility that different people
exist in different moods. Once I move out of fear mood into enthusiasm
time flies and I find it is meal time or bed time. In some rushes I
don't even bother with sleep, but pay big time all the next day.


>
>I am betting this lady is also apparently very confident and "sure" of
>herself too?
>
>In regards to tanks, I think I am able to say I am generally relaxed, no
>matter what I am doing - even if it's a tank break (as happened a while
>ago), it isn't as it seems, and that's the secret really - distinguishing
>what is, from what you think something is. Once the modal thought changes
>from "I am what I think" to "I am what ever is", a great natural peace
>comes.
>
>I can use the example of the tank cracking for you - I was eager to populate
>this tank, which was given to me, so I filled it 50% after placing it on a
>coffee table (first problem - grasping in the form of imapatience, second
>problem - ignorance of the felxiblility of glass).
>
>I filled it half way with water over new washed substarate, and all was
>well. I planted it with plants from my old tank right next to it and filled
>to the top water level. I turned the heaters on, sat back on my lounge and
>"relaxed" watching all the oxygen bubble off and observing - projecting what
>it would look like with the fish I had in the other tank in the new tank.
>
>Whilst I was "relaxing" I tired not to worry about the fact that the tank
>was over hanging the ends of the table by about 10 cm and though to leave it
>over night in any case to make sure. Well, I didn't have to wait that long.
>All of a sudden there was a loud crack/bang and water started streaming from
>below the tank, down the back and all over the power strip I had stupidly
>scewed to the under side of the table........to cut a long story
>short........on first rising of thought about this it appeared to be a
>disaster, but within moments I was actually smiling because what had
>actually happened was a lesson and an opportunity opening up.
>
>The end result was I discovered about glass and how inflexible it actually
>is. The location of the tank in the first instance was wrong for several
>reasons, chief amongst them, light, electrical and relational. The
>understanding that a good stand will save many years of worry and many other
>things.
>
>The opportunity came in the form of learning to repair a glass aquarium
>(didin't happen in the end because custom glass is 3 times the cost of a new
>same sized aquarium), the chance to brush up on wood working skills lost
>ages ago to build a proper stand and time to reconsider the best place for a
>220L, 4 foot tank in my room.
>
>So now my tank is on the oppostie side of the room, near water and power,
>away from sun light and windows. It's on a solid low stand and it sits
>properly on a foam base on a stand situated properly on the floor joists
>(thats 350kg the floor has to support). I switched to a canister filter a
>while ago too and I can say I spend proportionally more time "relaxing"
>about the tank than I do worrying about it. In real short - I got it right
>from the mistakes of the fist "disaster".
>
>Oh, and I also got an opportunity to mop the lounge room floor when the
>other tank broke ;)

Great exercise, what a plus! <g>
>
>Sorry for the long personal story there, but my point, I guess is to just
>say that true happiness comes from the inside and nowhere else. It's not
>essentially what you think, but rather, how you think, that makes a huge
>difference.
>
I agree that this feeling of "happiness" which is you experience
"comes from inside", but I "fear" <g> it is not available to everyone
without chemical intervention. I don't consider myself an "unhappy"
person, but neither do I experience extreme feelings I would call
happy. At age 70 I am more interested in adapting than changing even
if it is possible. I knew a fellow that had "bipolar" condition which
was kept in control by a balance of medications. In my case, my brain
activity is familiar and intervention would be "fixing something that
ain't broke." Things can be much worse. As an example, something
went terribly wrong for the fellow I mentioned and he died with empty
bottles strewn around his normally neat home. A no, no for someone on
his medications and he was well aware it could kill him. He never
drank in my presence.


>Aquariums have helped me personally to change the way I think as well,
>becuase I figure there is only so much you can technically do before you
>have to mentally 'let it go' and chill about it. If something doesn't work,
>then that's an opportunity to learn and refine, persist and suceed. Patience
>Grasshopper! :)
>>
>> But we worriers must be getting a reward no matter what we call it or
>> how we describe it. I just had trouble with the word "relaxing" and
>> yet I watch my tanks all day long (pretty much a hermit, good thing I
>> have to out to get the mail from the post office and buy groceries!)
>
>Studies have shown that watching gentle things like aquariums is good for
>you, so I wouldn't worry too much. As long as your thoughts don't run off
>beyond observation, then I think we can all "relax". I know I do lately, as
>your orignal post alerted me to my modal thinking when dealing with my
>tanks. FYI I don't chemically test my water regularly these days - only if
>something strange happens. Too much information can spoil the hobby in my
>experience. I was told one by the LFS#1 guy that I would kill my fish with
>kindness if I didn't back off a bit.
>>
I remind you that we both talk about variation from expected behaviors
in our fish and then point to this paragraph first word "studies."
Studies indicate trends and possibilities, but for you and I in our
personal worlds, we must "live with the cards as dealt." That is the
secret of life for me. For instance over the years I have read many
books dealing with how to be happy. I found them interesting, but not
useful. "Studies" show that single men that live alone and do not
socialize, die young. At 70 I am beyond dying young. I read recently
that if a man lives to 65 in the U.S., he can expect to live another
17 years. Once you make it to a certain age, one's body and way of
life have proven themselves, thus extending the expected life length.
Following that thinking I, at age 70, can expect to live to at least
87. So much for single, hermit type men dying young.

While not a Christian, I do believe the Universe is controlled by an
"Intelligence." Further I believe that we are individually created to
full fill whatever the Intelligence is about. Thus, I am going to
live so long as I still fill a need of the Intelligence. I spend a
lot of my time pondering the meaning of existence, actually have most
of my life. I recall in college writing a speech entitled "A Life
Worth Living."

>> Being human is strange. I watch my fish and wonder how they can be
>> satisfied to live in those constraining tanks, I get bored in my well
>> outfitted house and yard, I know my 2 dogs get bored and look to me to
>> entertain. I can't find enough interesting things to do to pass my
>> own time, how can the dogs expect me to help them. (Right now I am
>> getting cold noses reminding me it is time to fill the food dishes.)
>
>There was something on TV here recently, on the news, about some parasite or
>virus and they were showing tanks full of Honey Gouamis and I wondered how
>they could keep so many males in one sterile tank like that - I came to the
>conclusion that the fish weren't concerned about the conatiner probably, as
>much as they were concerned about all the other males around them - in other
>words they were distracted.
>
When I decided "no more fry" and separated the boys from the girls, I
put 5 male mollies into a 10 gallon tank, 4 died within a week or two.
None of the females died. hmmm?

>Then I saw an episode of a show called "Mythbusters" where they were testing
>the myth that Goldfish have "3 second" memories - the myth was busted btw.
>they are quite capable of retentive memory - BUT, in the lead to the main
>story they were talking to a fish research guy who stated that from his
>measurements, over 60% of fish in home aquaria were simply bored!

I often see what seems to be "bored" fish behavior. Listlessness,
stationary swimming, low color. Then all will change and they will
join in to a group swim full of activity and color. One tank has 10
White Clouds, they seem well adjusted to tank life often chasing each
other, not nipping, just taking turns chasing each other.

>
>This why I do a do a couple of things for fish - I move ornaments and plants
>around and change the flow patterns and I try to provide opposite sex
>partners for every one in the tank. It's the best I can do for them in such
>a limited space and especially seeing I am actually "Big Brother" :)

I don't make changes for my fish, I figure they must find ways of
coping with their limited environment just as I do. By the way, my
choices for activities is not limited by health, time or money, but by
imagination. I just don't think of things I want to do. I find my
home comfortable and filled with the toys I enjoy such as my morning
jaunt in the news groups. However, I consciously intervene with my 14
year old Greyhound. Day by day I watch her muscles fail her more. It
is agonizing to watch her get up and down, so in a humble attempt to
tone her muscles, I get her to play. She still enjoys play. One game
is for her to chase me or I chase her around the house. I push these
games so long as she can continue and do them when I think to do so.
It is terrible to think that one day I will "put her down" because she
can't get up! :-( She has trouble manipulating the doggy door, so now
she lets me know when she wants out. I am "happy" to do so.

>
>>
>> Isn't it great, Oz, that so many of our fish net family have taken a
>> few minutes to respond to this thread. I am delighted (whoops, Ruby
>> the Greyhound is whispering in my ear, "feed me").
>
>It is great. It's a side of the hobby which isn't much recognised or talked
>about in the hobby. It's usually the subject of scientific curiosity.
>
>I say you could do worse - like caging birds that need vast enviroments to
>fly, for instance ;)
>
>Oz
>
>
There is something in this hobby for everyone. I haven't figured out
what makes it so appealing to me, but I wouldn't give it up for
anything.

dick

[Daniel Morrow]

In some rushes I
> don't even bother with sleep, but pay big time all the next day.
>
>

That happens to me some too.