Danios attacking tetras?

[Guido]

I've got 8 tetras (neon and cardinal) and I bought 8 long-fin zebra
danios last week under the impression that they are "very peaceful" as
every website I read and the woman at the lfs agreed with. It seems
that they're attacking (and have killed 2) the tetras. I haven't
actually seen them nip the tetras, but the only thing that's changed
since the tetras started dying was that the danios were added. Water
quality is fine.
I don't have a second aquarium, so isolating them is impossible.

Do you think maybe I've just gotten an odd batch of danios, or am I
wrong that the danios are responsible and I should be looking elsewhere
for the problem?

Thanks for any help!

[Pete Stephenson]

In article >,
Guido > wrote:

> Do you think maybe I've just gotten an odd batch of danios, or am I
> wrong that the danios are responsible and I should be looking elsewhere
> for the problem?

!

I'm not a fish expert (I just like having the aquarium and whatnot), but
my black-fin tetras and 8" peleco get along quite well with my danios.

The danios mostly keep to themselves in the 25gal tank, swimming around
in groups, chasing each other (playfully?), and so on. When the two
species interact, they basically ignore each other, even when eating. No
conflict at all.

Could you describe how the tetras died? Is there any markings on their
bodies?[1] Any other information about how they met their untimely
demise?

[1] It was Colonel Mustard, in the Conservatory, with the Candlestick.
Obviously. He's a shady guy, that Colonel Mustard...

--
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com

[Guido]

Pete Stephenson wrote:
> In article >,
> Guido > wrote:
>
>
>>Do you think maybe I've just gotten an odd batch of danios, or am I
>>wrong that the danios are responsible and I should be looking elsewhere
>>for the problem?
>
>
> !
>
> I'm not a fish expert (I just like having the aquarium and whatnot), but
> my black-fin tetras and 8" peleco get along quite well with my danios.
>
> The danios mostly keep to themselves in the 25gal tank, swimming around
> in groups, chasing each other (playfully?), and so on. When the two
> species interact, they basically ignore each other, even when eating. No
> conflict at all.
>
> Could you describe how the tetras died? Is there any markings on their
> bodies?[1] Any other information about how they met their untimely
> demise?
>
> [1] It was Colonel Mustard, in the Conservatory, with the Candlestick.
> Obviously. He's a shady guy, that Colonel Mustard...
>

Well, I originally suspected my filter (Aquaclear 250) because that's
where I discovered them (dead) - stuck to/in the filter intake, so I put
a bit of pantyhose around the intake to stop larger objects (fish) from
getting caught in it.

Now I find that I've lost another fish and it's stuck to the outside of
the filter.

Seems like their tail fins are completely worn away and they end up
drifting to the filter and getting stuck. (maybe this is a case of fin
rot???) I've seen the danios chasing the tetras a little bit, but alas
never seen them actually catch them... they just appear to be playing,
like you said. It almost looks like they're "herding" them like a
sheepdog would. I'm really not sure.



PS - I just found another tetra and danio dead - and his fins weren't
worn away at all. Something is rotten in Denmark. Though, I suspect
these last two deaths were because of elevated temperatures in the tank.
I was out all day yesterday and we had a bit of a heat wave - temps
hit 40 degrees celsius in the sun and my apartment doesn't have AC yet.
I was out all day and when I returned last night the water temp was
almost 28... I floated a water bottle with ice in it and did a partial
water change, but I think it may have been too late for them :(

This is really starting to get me down... I thought I was doing so well
before...

[Guido]

Pete Stephenson wrote:
> In article >,
> Guido > wrote:
>
>
>>Do you think maybe I've just gotten an odd batch of danios, or am I
>>wrong that the danios are responsible and I should be looking elsewhere
>>for the problem?
>
>
> !
>
> I'm not a fish expert (I just like having the aquarium and whatnot), but
> my black-fin tetras and 8" peleco get along quite well with my danios.
>
> The danios mostly keep to themselves in the 25gal tank, swimming around
> in groups, chasing each other (playfully?), and so on. When the two
> species interact, they basically ignore each other, even when eating. No
> conflict at all.
>
> Could you describe how the tetras died? Is there any markings on their
> bodies?[1] Any other information about how they met their untimely
> demise?
>
> [1] It was Colonel Mustard, in the Conservatory, with the Candlestick.
> Obviously. He's a shady guy, that Colonel Mustard...
>
Just took a water sample and it says thusly:

pH: 7.5
Alkalinity 180 (PPM)
Total Hardness 75 (PPM)
Nitrite 0 (PPM)
Nitrate 0 (PPM)

I'm only using test strips, but I cross checked with my lfs the other
day to make sure they were acurate and they were spot on.

[Scat]

How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in there?

[Elaine T]

Scat wrote:
> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in there?
>
Danios and neons should be able to live together fine. If there's even
a low amount of ammonia from doubling the number of fish, it will be
fairly toxic at pH 7.5 and could cause finrot in your neons.

I can tell you from unfortunate past experience that dead cardinals and
neons tend to get sucked onto AquaClear filter intakes. :-( Healthy
ones can swim away from AquaClears just fine and never get stuck.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Guido]

Scat wrote:
> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in there?
>
I'll take a sample to the fish store tomorrow to check the ammonia...
will let you know...

[Peter in New Zealand]

Guido wrote:
> Scat wrote:
>
>> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
>> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in there?
>>
> I'll take a sample to the fish store tomorrow to check the ammonia...
> will let you know...

Can I respectfully butt in here for a mo' as an old time tropical tank
owner (many years ago) who is just starting out again, only with
goldfish this time around. You mention neon tetras, which I used to run
in tropical tanks. Can they also be run in cold water tanks, or am I
assuming too much here. Regards.

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.

[Elaine T]

Peter in New Zealand wrote:
> Guido wrote:
>
>> Scat wrote:
>>
>>> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
>>> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in there?
>>>
>> I'll take a sample to the fish store tomorrow to check the ammonia...
>> will let you know...
>
>
> Can I respectfully butt in here for a mo' as an old time tropical tank
> owner (many years ago) who is just starting out again, only with
> goldfish this time around. You mention neon tetras, which I used to run
> in tropical tanks. Can they also be run in cold water tanks, or am I
> assuming too much here. Regards.
>
Neons need at least 72F water. White cloud minnows are attractive,
small fish that are well suited to cold water tanks. I don't know about
the safety of mixing white clouds with goldies once the goldfish are
grown, though. Goldies are not predatory, but they do seem to eat
anything that fits in their mouths.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Peter in New Zealand]

--

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.
"Elaine T" > wrote in message
om...
> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>> Guido wrote:
>>
>>> Scat wrote:
>>>
>>>> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
>>>> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in
>>>> there?
>>>>
>>> I'll take a sample to the fish store tomorrow to check the ammonia...
>>> will let you know...
>>
>>
>> Can I respectfully butt in here for a mo' as an old time tropical tank
>> owner (many years ago) who is just starting out again, only with goldfish
>> this time around. You mention neon tetras, which I used to run in
>> tropical tanks. Can they also be run in cold water tanks, or am I
>> assuming too much here. Regards.
>>
> Neons need at least 72F water. White cloud minnows are attractive, small
> fish that are well suited to cold water tanks. I don't know about the
> safety of mixing white clouds with goldies once the goldfish are grown,
> though. Goldies are not predatory, but they do seem to eat anything that
> fits in their mouths.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Thank you for your reply. The white clouds you mention here and in your
reply to my other post regarding tank size sound interesting. I will ask
about them. Unfortunately all this talk re neons brings back all my old
tropical fish memories, and I might end up migrating the tank. If I heat it
for tropicals how hot can goldfish get before discomfort? Thanks for the
help.

Peter in New Zealand.

[Daniel Morrow]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Peter in New Zealand.
> Pull the plug out to reply.
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Peter in New Zealand wrote:
> >> Guido wrote:
> >>
> >>> Scat wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
> >>>> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in
> >>>> there?
> >>>>
> >>> I'll take a sample to the fish store tomorrow to check the ammonia...
> >>> will let you know...
> >>
> >>
> >> Can I respectfully butt in here for a mo' as an old time tropical tank
> >> owner (many years ago) who is just starting out again, only with
goldfish
> >> this time around. You mention neon tetras, which I used to run in
> >> tropical tanks. Can they also be run in cold water tanks, or am I
> >> assuming too much here. Regards.
> >>
> > Neons need at least 72F water. White cloud minnows are attractive,
small
> > fish that are well suited to cold water tanks. I don't know about the
> > safety of mixing white clouds with goldies once the goldfish are grown,
> > though. Goldies are not predatory, but they do seem to eat anything
that
> > fits in their mouths.
> >
> > --
> > Elaine T __
> > http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> > rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
> Thank you for your reply. The white clouds you mention here and in your
> reply to my other post regarding tank size sound interesting. I will ask
> about them. Unfortunately all this talk re neons brings back all my old
> tropical fish memories, and I might end up migrating the tank. If I heat
it
> for tropicals how hot can goldfish get before discomfort? Thanks for the
> help.
>
> Peter in New Zealand.
>
>

Yeah, white cloud mountain minnows are great fish. I have some although they
are dying off one every few months from either being eaten by the silver
dollars (I know, I know they're herbivores but I have heard from my pet
store that silver dollars become omnivorous in captivity) or old age. They
breed often although are not as prolific as fancy guppies which are my
personal favorite but I hold a grudge against the fancy guppies in the same
tank as the minnows because the fancy guppies eat the minnows eggs and so
they never reproduce anymore but boy they (white cloud mountain minnows)
reproduced good in that tank before I introduced the fancy guppies to that
tank, especially when the temperature of the water is approximately 80
degrees fahrenheit. Good luck and I highly recommend white cloud mountain
minnows and to top it off I think they are considered exotic to north
america because the minnows originate from china I believe. The eggs hatch
and baby neon tetra brightly colored fry emerge. Later!

[Peter in New Zealand]

--

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.
"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Peter in New Zealand.
>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>> >> Guido wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Scat wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
>> >>>> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in
>> >>>> there?
>> >>>>
>> >>> I'll take a sample to the fish store tomorrow to check the ammonia...
>> >>> will let you know...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Can I respectfully butt in here for a mo' as an old time tropical tank
>> >> owner (many years ago) who is just starting out again, only with
> goldfish
>> >> this time around. You mention neon tetras, which I used to run in
>> >> tropical tanks. Can they also be run in cold water tanks, or am I
>> >> assuming too much here. Regards.
>> >>
>> > Neons need at least 72F water. White cloud minnows are attractive,
> small
>> > fish that are well suited to cold water tanks. I don't know about the
>> > safety of mixing white clouds with goldies once the goldfish are grown,
>> > though. Goldies are not predatory, but they do seem to eat anything
> that
>> > fits in their mouths.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Elaine T __
>> > http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>> > rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>>
>> Thank you for your reply. The white clouds you mention here and in your
>> reply to my other post regarding tank size sound interesting. I will ask
>> about them. Unfortunately all this talk re neons brings back all my old
>> tropical fish memories, and I might end up migrating the tank. If I heat
> it
>> for tropicals how hot can goldfish get before discomfort? Thanks for the
>> help.
>>
>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>
>>
>
> Yeah, white cloud mountain minnows are great fish. I have some although
> they
> are dying off one every few months from either being eaten by the silver
> dollars (I know, I know they're herbivores but I have heard from my pet
> store that silver dollars become omnivorous in captivity) or old age. They
> breed often although are not as prolific as fancy guppies which are my
> personal favorite but I hold a grudge against the fancy guppies in the
> same
> tank as the minnows because the fancy guppies eat the minnows eggs and so
> they never reproduce anymore but boy they (white cloud mountain minnows)
> reproduced good in that tank before I introduced the fancy guppies to that
> tank, especially when the temperature of the water is approximately 80
> degrees fahrenheit. Good luck and I highly recommend white cloud mountain
> minnows and to top it off I think they are considered exotic to north
> america because the minnows originate from china I believe. The eggs hatch
> and baby neon tetra brightly colored fry emerge. Later!
>
>

Just about anything's exotic here in New Zealand except moas and kiwis.
(Ducking as politically correct rocks start flying). Gosh, almost anything
you say in NZ at the moment is offensive to someone. <vbg> Can't decide
whether to look at the white clouds or just go back tropical. That's what I
know at least a little about. I'll think about it and let you know in a
future post what I decide.

Grateful thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. You're a great
lot to interact with.
--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.

[Daniel Morrow]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Peter in New Zealand.
> Pull the plug out to reply.
> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> Peter in New Zealand.
> >> Pull the plug out to reply.
> >> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> >> om...
> >> > Peter in New Zealand wrote:
> >> >> Guido wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Scat wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled
it?
> >> >>>> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in
> >> >>>> there?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> I'll take a sample to the fish store tomorrow to check the
ammonia...
> >> >>> will let you know...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Can I respectfully butt in here for a mo' as an old time tropical
tank
> >> >> owner (many years ago) who is just starting out again, only with
> > goldfish
> >> >> this time around. You mention neon tetras, which I used to run in
> >> >> tropical tanks. Can they also be run in cold water tanks, or am I
> >> >> assuming too much here. Regards.
> >> >>
> >> > Neons need at least 72F water. White cloud minnows are attractive,
> > small
> >> > fish that are well suited to cold water tanks. I don't know about
the
> >> > safety of mixing white clouds with goldies once the goldfish are
grown,
> >> > though. Goldies are not predatory, but they do seem to eat anything
> > that
> >> > fits in their mouths.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Elaine T __
> >> > http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> >> > rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
> >>
> >> Thank you for your reply. The white clouds you mention here and in your
> >> reply to my other post regarding tank size sound interesting. I will
ask
> >> about them. Unfortunately all this talk re neons brings back all my old
> >> tropical fish memories, and I might end up migrating the tank. If I
heat
> > it
> >> for tropicals how hot can goldfish get before discomfort? Thanks for
the
> >> help.
> >>
> >> Peter in New Zealand.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Yeah, white cloud mountain minnows are great fish. I have some although
> > they
> > are dying off one every few months from either being eaten by the silver
> > dollars (I know, I know they're herbivores but I have heard from my pet
> > store that silver dollars become omnivorous in captivity) or old age.
They
> > breed often although are not as prolific as fancy guppies which are my
> > personal favorite but I hold a grudge against the fancy guppies in the
> > same
> > tank as the minnows because the fancy guppies eat the minnows eggs and
so
> > they never reproduce anymore but boy they (white cloud mountain minnows)
> > reproduced good in that tank before I introduced the fancy guppies to
that
> > tank, especially when the temperature of the water is approximately 80
> > degrees fahrenheit. Good luck and I highly recommend white cloud
mountain
> > minnows and to top it off I think they are considered exotic to north
> > america because the minnows originate from china I believe. The eggs
hatch
> > and baby neon tetra brightly colored fry emerge. Later!
> >
> >
>
> Just about anything's exotic here in New Zealand except moas and kiwis.
> (Ducking as politically correct rocks start flying). Gosh, almost anything
> you say in NZ at the moment is offensive to someone. <vbg> Can't decide
> whether to look at the white clouds or just go back tropical. That's what
I

You can do both if you want. White cloud mountain minnows can easily handle
approximately 40 degrees fahrenheit to something like 94 degrees fahrenheit.
You could put both white clouds and other tropical fish together at the very
least if you don't mind them not reproducing, white clouds are tropical.
Later!

[Guido]

Elaine T wrote:
> Scat wrote:
>
>> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
>> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in there?
>>
> Danios and neons should be able to live together fine. If there's even
> a low amount of ammonia from doubling the number of fish, it will be
> fairly toxic at pH 7.5 and could cause finrot in your neons.
>
> I can tell you from unfortunate past experience that dead cardinals and
> neons tend to get sucked onto AquaClear filter intakes. :-( Healthy
> ones can swim away from AquaClears just fine and never get stuck.
>
Elaine, I think you were right. I haven't had a chance to get the water
tested, but I've been doing 10 - 15% water changes every day partly to
see if it helps dissipate the ammonia (assuming ammonia is the problem)
and partly to try and keep the water at a livable temp for my poor
fishies. Ever since then I've had no lost fish, and it seems like the
tails on the remaining neons are looking healthier.

Thanks again, everyone for their help.

Gord

[Peter in New Zealand]

Can't decide
>> whether to look at the white clouds or just go back tropical. That's what
> I
>
> You can do both if you want. White cloud mountain minnows can easily
> handle
> approximately 40 degrees fahrenheit to something like 94 degrees
> fahrenheit.
> You could put both white clouds and other tropical fish together at the
> very
> least if you don't mind them not reproducing, white clouds are tropical.
> Later!
>
Oh, I understand. Thanks for that. The more I think about it the more I feel
like going back tropical. Good to know I can have them together. I really do
miss the tropicals. The only thing is that I have these three little
goldfish. How do they get on at the higher temps does anyone know? I really
don't want to go for a second tank. As I think I said a few posts ago,
that's how it all begins. <g> But I don't want to cook them either.

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.
--
Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
compulsive computer fiddler.

[NetMax]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
> Guido wrote:
>> Scat wrote:
>>
>>> How long have you had your tank up and running? Have you cycled it?
>>> You should do an ammonia test too. Do you keep any other fish in
>>> there?
>>>
>> I'll take a sample to the fish store tomorrow to check the ammonia...
>> will let you know...
>
> Can I respectfully butt in here for a mo' as an old time tropical tank
> owner (many years ago) who is just starting out again, only with
> goldfish this time around. You mention neon tetras, which I used to run
> in tropical tanks. Can they also be run in cold water tanks, or am I
> assuming too much here. Regards.
>
> --
> Peter in New Zealand.
> Pull the plug out to reply.

Generally speaking, the only tropical fish which cohabitate with goldfish
(in cool water) is the Dojo or Weather loach. Like Goldfish, they grow
too big.

Without goldfish, White Clouds and Kuhli loaches are 'cool' water fish,
and many tropicals (ie: Rasboras) are quite tolerant of the low 70s.

Note that even Goldfish should have heaters, if only to keep the
temperature stable.

You can keep Goldfish at tropical temperatures, but this greatly
increases their metabolism and brings out some of their worst features
(they eat more, crap more and grow faster). Long term it might
negatively affect their longevity. The Goldfish newsgroup would have no
shortage of opinions (and facts) on this matter ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk