Water Source High in NItrates

[smcclure415]

I've just started a small aquarium with/for my daughter. It is a 10/12
gallon tank(Whisper outside the tank filter that uses Bio-Bags) stocked
so far with a Diamond Tetra, three Rasboras, a Chinese Algae Eater, and
a Plecostomas.

We've had the tank up and running for about a month now. We have lost
a few fish. A pair of Swordtails and a guppy, Those have been replaced
by the Rasboras and the plecostamos. I believed the loss of those fish
had to do with temperature control or changes, as the temperature in
the tank had jumped into the mid-eighties. The plecostomas was added
because of the Algae in the tank...I perceived that the algae eater
wasn't doing his job, but I dont' think that was the problem.

Upon replacing the fish, I also procured some 5-in-1 test strips, and
discovered that our Nitrate and Nitrite levels were through the roof.
Way off the chart on the color matching guide.

I initiated a water change 30% or so, and discovered that our tap
water..we have our own well..was VERY high in Nitrates. I don't have
an Amonia test kit, so I don't really know what that looks like.

I have since started performing water changes with bottled water, which
has helped somewhat.

Yesterday I added some StartZlyme, just in case I didn't have a good
crop of bacteria going. I also added some Amquell plus, as it is
supposed to help with Nitrate and Nitrite problems. Upon dipping a
test strip this AM, the Nitrates were almost out of the danger level,
but the Nitrites were still off the charts bad. Should I just add the
whole bottle of Amquell plus (1OZ. Enough treat up to 60 gallons of
water), Just to get the nitrites out of the danger zone?

Also since our Water source is High in Nitrates..what do people in that
circumstance do to fill larger aquariums? I'm hoping to get a much
larger aquarium going with the next year, but I can't imagine a water
change of 20 or 25 gallons.

[Gill Passman]

"smcclure415" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've just started a small aquarium with/for my daughter. It is a 10/12
> gallon tank(Whisper outside the tank filter that uses Bio-Bags) stocked
> so far with a Diamond Tetra, three Rasboras, a Chinese Algae Eater, and
> a Plecostomas.
>
> We've had the tank up and running for about a month now. We have lost
> a few fish. A pair of Swordtails and a guppy, Those have been replaced
> by the Rasboras and the plecostamos. I believed the loss of those fish
> had to do with temperature control or changes, as the temperature in
> the tank had jumped into the mid-eighties. The plecostomas was added
> because of the Algae in the tank...I perceived that the algae eater
> wasn't doing his job, but I dont' think that was the problem.
>
> Upon replacing the fish, I also procured some 5-in-1 test strips, and
> discovered that our Nitrate and Nitrite levels were through the roof.
> Way off the chart on the color matching guide.
>
> I initiated a water change 30% or so, and discovered that our tap
> water..we have our own well..was VERY high in Nitrates. I don't have
> an Amonia test kit, so I don't really know what that looks like.
>
> I have since started performing water changes with bottled water, which
> has helped somewhat.
>
> Yesterday I added some StartZlyme, just in case I didn't have a good
> crop of bacteria going. I also added some Amquell plus, as it is
> supposed to help with Nitrate and Nitrite problems. Upon dipping a
> test strip this AM, the Nitrates were almost out of the danger level,
> but the Nitrites were still off the charts bad. Should I just add the
> whole bottle of Amquell plus (1OZ. Enough treat up to 60 gallons of
> water), Just to get the nitrites out of the danger zone?
>
> Also since our Water source is High in Nitrates..what do people in that
> circumstance do to fill larger aquariums? I'm hoping to get a much
> larger aquarium going with the next year, but I can't imagine a water
> change of 20 or 25 gallons.
>

The tank is still cycling....you need to test for ammonia as well.....water
changes are good but whatever you do DO NOT add an overdose of chemicals -
this will kill your fish very, very quickly....as will the nitrites (or any
ammonia)

You don't say if you have any plants in the tank....add loads of them it
will help with the nitrates and the cycling. It's the nitrites and ammonia
that are the real worry....keep up the water changes - plus the plants will
help - monitor the temp - if it is too high the water will be deprived of
oxygen (especially at night) - consider an air brick

Do not use bottled water - it contains disolved minerals which could be
harmful to your fish. You could try getting some RO water and mixing this
with your well water....

IMO you have probably added too many fish too fast....I also wouldn't put a
Pleco in any tank smaller than 30gall (but that might just be
me).....Chinese algae eaters aren't the best and apparently can get quite
nasty (others will update you on this - I have no experience of them). To
give you a clue in my 5 (UK) gall tank and my 50(UK) gall tank the best
algae eaters/workers I've got are my ottos - small enough possibly for the
tank you describe.....

You really have to get plants, keep up the water changes until things settle
nitrite wise and test for ammonia. Consider, if possible, cutting down on
the number of fish until the tank is cycled (you will lose them anyway if
you don't)

Hope this helps
Gill

[smcclure415]

That does help some. To elaborate some and hopeflully answer the
questions you touched on;

We don't have any plants in the tank right now. I'm not planning on
adding any more fish until the tank settles down. We added fish
slowly, and I thought things were doing great. I actually only bought
the test strips as an afterthought when purchasing the replacement
fish.

On the temperature...we had a hot spell, and our air conditioner was on
the fritz for over a week. During that time, It hadn't occured to me
to closely monitor the tank, to see how high the temp was. As for an
Air Stone....I have a HUGE airbar, well huge for a 12 gallon tank at
least running.

As for the bottled water...I really don't see many options
available...How about Distilled water? I don't have access to a RO
machine. Am I going to need one of those if I plan on a bigger tank in
this house?

On the over-treating the water...I had read an article somewhere
regarding AmQuell that mentioned you could essentially add as much as
was needed to remove the ammonia in a tank without harming the fish. I
wasn't sure if that tidbit applied to the newer amquell plus that also
lowers Nitrates and Nitrites.


I had a couple of aquariums up to a 60 gallon with African Cichlids
years ago, and I NEVER paid any attention to Nitrates, Ammonia, or any
water quality issues. I had that tank for years with just an
undergravel filter and the occasioanal Diatom filtering, but perhaps I
was just lucky. Whatever the case, I've apparently forgotten more than
I knew. One of those things I forgot was the bit about the Chinese
Algae eater. I now remember cheering when mine died some 20 years
back. He was a mean son of a gun, and never ate a bit of Algae.

[Gill Passman]

"smcclure415" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> That does help some. To elaborate some and hopeflully answer the
> questions you touched on;
>
> We don't have any plants in the tank right now. I'm not planning on
> adding any more fish until the tank settles down. We added fish
> slowly, and I thought things were doing great. I actually only bought
> the test strips as an afterthought when purchasing the replacement
> fish.
>
> On the temperature...we had a hot spell, and our air conditioner was on
> the fritz for over a week. During that time, It hadn't occured to me
> to closely monitor the tank, to see how high the temp was. As for an
> Air Stone....I have a HUGE airbar, well huge for a 12 gallon tank at
> least running.
>
> As for the bottled water...I really don't see many options
> available...How about Distilled water? I don't have access to a RO
> machine. Am I going to need one of those if I plan on a bigger tank in
> this house?
>
> On the over-treating the water...I had read an article somewhere
> regarding AmQuell that mentioned you could essentially add as much as
> was needed to remove the ammonia in a tank without harming the fish. I
> wasn't sure if that tidbit applied to the newer amquell plus that also
> lowers Nitrates and Nitrites.
>
>
> I had a couple of aquariums up to a 60 gallon with African Cichlids
> years ago, and I NEVER paid any attention to Nitrates, Ammonia, or any
> water quality issues. I had that tank for years with just an
> undergravel filter and the occasioanal Diatom filtering, but perhaps I
> was just lucky. Whatever the case, I've apparently forgotten more than
> I knew. One of those things I forgot was the bit about the Chinese
> Algae eater. I now remember cheering when mine died some 20 years
> back. He was a mean son of a gun, and never ate a bit of Algae.
>

Really, I am a great believer in using the water you have got on
supply.....any chemical adjustments just add up to future trouble. But I do
know that plants will help with your nitrates but I don't think that it is
the nitrates killing the fish - it will be the nitrites and possible ammonia
(please try and test for that)....an air brick will help with any O2
imbalance. If the water is reallya great problem the RO route might help -
one of our local LFS will provide this - so ask around - it saves the
expense of getting your own unit....I very much doubt that this will be your
issue once you get some plants in there. Nitrites and ammonia will reduce as
the bacteria grows to deal with this - again plants will help...as would a
slower addition of fish....

Bigger tanks are more forgiving than the smaller ones....more margin for
error than a small tanks....Malawi tanks are different - you need to bring
up the stock levels quickly to get past aggression - I took 6 weeks to stock
mine but I also used mature substrate and filter medium. But you still run
the risk of ammonia and nitrite spikes unless you play carefully

Have you got a friend or possibly your LFS that would give you some mature
substrate or piece of filter medium? This might help with the cycling of
your tank?

BTW I use nothing other than what comes out of the tap in any of the tanks
(6 at last count) treated for chlorine and chloramines.....apart from the
Mbuna tank they are all heavily planted

Gill

[lgb]

In article . com>,
says...
> As for the bottled water...I really don't see many options
> available...How about Distilled water? I don't have access to a RO
> machine. Am I going to need one of those if I plan on a bigger tank in
> this house?
>
Our water comes from an aquifer. No chemicals added (except diesel -
see sig line) but since we're in an agricultural area we've got high
nitrates. I use 1/3 to 1/2 distilled water at every change.

PS: The diesel is in parts per billion at this point, no biggie yet.

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[smcclure415]

With regard to the substrate and filter medium.

Maybe I should do a search on those topics to see what I can learn. By
substrate, I'm guessing you mean gravel, and the accompanying "stuff".
Now as for the filter medium. The tank I've got is an over the wall
Whisper that takes Bio-Bags. If a "mature" filter media is a good
thing...was it a bad Idea for me to throw away the initial Bio-Bag when
it was dirty? Ive got a second one in there now, but it is getting to
be time to look at cleaning it again. Should I rinse it out in the
sink and return it? If not how should I do it. The only filter I've
ever had in any aquarium is an undergravel.

Regarding the Distilled water...it seems I can maybe mix my Well water
with the distilled, and as long as I add some plants...things should be
OK.


Thanks for all the helpful info.

[NetMax]

"smcclure415" > wrote in message
oups.com...
<snip>
> Upon replacing the fish, I also procured some 5-in-1 test strips, and
> discovered that our Nitrate and Nitrite levels were through the roof.
> Way off the chart on the color matching guide.
>
> I initiated a water change 30% or so, and discovered that our tap
> water..we have our own well..was VERY high in Nitrates. I don't have
> an Amonia test kit, so I don't really know what that looks like.

Please clarify what 'high in nitrates' is in ppm. Humans (especially
pregnant and for children under 6 mos) are more susceptible to high
nitrates than fish. Research methemoglobinemia. Caution at >4ppm and
linkage at >10ppm (mg/l). Conversely, tropical fish can tolerate 10ppm
and much higher levels if allowed to acclimate to the levels.

In regards to the fish, aquarium plants are the most practical method to
remove nitrates, and dilution is the most practical method to reduce what
goes into the tank.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[smcclure415]

Very high in Nitrates is well, our Tap water(from the well) has off the
chart readings on the 5-in-1 test strips we have. The test strip goes
to 200 ppm. So I'd say we're somewhere close to there. I'm sort of
glad I wasn't aware of the methemaglobin problem, as we do have two
small children who are at least out of the significant danger range
now.

The 30% water change and the Amquel treatment dropped the Nitrates down
to the top end of the "safe" range about 40ppm. The Nitrites are still
over or right at 10 ppm.

Tomorrow we will be purchasing a plant or two as well as an Ammonia
test kit. I will lay off the chemicals, and see what I can do about
getting something to more significantly jump start the Cycle. I did
add some StartZlyme...will this help with the Bacteria or do I really
need to obtain some from my pet store?

Again with my filter...Do I need to do something to retain the bacteria
besides swap out the old "Bio-Bag" with a Fresh new one?

[smcclure415]

Ooops. Just checked the Nitrates at the tap again and they were down
considerably. Into the readable range between 20 to 40 ppm.

[lgb]

In article . com>,
says...
> Ooops. Just checked the Nitrates at the tap again and they were down
> considerably. Into the readable range between 20 to 40 ppm.
>
Fertilized the lawn or garden lately? How deep is that well?

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[NetMax]

"smcclure415" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ooops. Just checked the Nitrates at the tap again and they were down
> considerably. Into the readable range between 20 to 40 ppm.


That's an improvement from 200ppm *cough*. There are many folks here with
NO3 in their wells who can advise you better than I, but the water quality
limit where I live (also well water) is 10ppm.

In regards to the fish, 20ppm well water would be a tolerable nuisance as
your own NO3 would always be raised by that amount. A level of 40ppm would
be more of a nuisance. In regards to plants, it will take a significant
amount to dent that NO3 level (2/3 planted?). A fast growing plant like
floating Hornwort might work well for you. As it grows, just reach in and
throw the excessive growth away.

In regards to your filters, the higher the fish-load, the more dependant you
become on the bacteria in your filter. A common method is to only rinse the
filter media in outgoing tank water. Carbon can be discarded and replaced
or ignored at your discretion, just don't leave it in there for perpetuity.

It would be instructive to know what the ammonia levels are as this is what
is the most toxic. Fish can acclimate to 40ppm NO3 and higher.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[smcclure415]

The well is either 200 or 300 feet deep. The problem with the Nitrates
is that we live in an agricultural area with vineyards surrounding us
as far as the eye can see.

I'm glad I posted this. I've learned a lot.
I'll be
-testing Ammonia levels today, and posting the result here for more
feedback.
-Adding a plant or two to the tank...My wife is consulting with the LFS
as to variety
-Cleaning my filter media by squeezing it out into water I've just
changed out.
-I'll remove the Carbon after a couple weeks of exposure...How often
should I be adding carbon to the filter media?
-I'll hopefully let the "cycle" catch up with my High Nitrite problem.
It's too bad I tossed the initial filter media I had been using.

[Rocco Moretti]

smcclure415 wrote:

> -Adding a plant or two to the tank...My wife is consulting with the LFS
> as to variety

You may want to consider floating plants. They tend to grow faster (=
suck up more nutrients). Duckweed is the ubiquitous nusianse plant, but
there are others which look better & do just as well.

I've had good success with Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) - it
doubles every week or so, and has clusters of dime-sized (1 cm diameter)
leaves so it is easy to handle.

http://www.azgardens.com/images/Frogbit.jpg

[Gill Passman]

"smcclure415" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> The well is either 200 or 300 feet deep. The problem with the Nitrates
> is that we live in an agricultural area with vineyards surrounding us
> as far as the eye can see.
>
> I'm glad I posted this. I've learned a lot.
> I'll be
> -testing Ammonia levels today, and posting the result here for more
> feedback.
> -Adding a plant or two to the tank...My wife is consulting with the LFS
> as to variety
> -Cleaning my filter media by squeezing it out into water I've just
> changed out.
> -I'll remove the Carbon after a couple weeks of exposure...How often
> should I be adding carbon to the filter media?
> -I'll hopefully let the "cycle" catch up with my High Nitrite problem.
> It's too bad I tossed the initial filter media I had been using.
>
I never add Carbon to my filter unless I am ridding the tank of medication -
there really isn't any need for it IME.

[David C. Stone]

In article >, NetMax
> wrote:

> "smcclure415" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Ooops. Just checked the Nitrates at the tap again and they were down
> > considerably. Into the readable range between 20 to 40 ppm.
>
>
> That's an improvement from 200ppm *cough*. There are many folks here with
> NO3 in their wells who can advise you better than I, but the water quality
> limit where I live (also well water) is 10ppm.

Same here - 10 ppm (or 10 mg/L) is a fairly standard maximum allowable
concentration for drinking water across North America. Do you use your
well water for drinking or cooking?

[Elaine T]

Rocco Moretti wrote:
> smcclure415 wrote:
>
>> -Adding a plant or two to the tank...My wife is consulting with the LFS
>> as to variety
>
>
> You may want to consider floating plants. They tend to grow faster (=
> suck up more nutrients). Duckweed is the ubiquitous nusianse plant, but
> there are others which look better & do just as well.
>
> I've had good success with Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) - it
> doubles every week or so, and has clusters of dime-sized (1 cm diameter)
> leaves so it is easy to handle.
>
> http://www.azgardens.com/images/Frogbit.jpg

Or water sprite. The water in my guppies' tank is nearly covered with
it, and I pluck out bits and trade them to LFS. Now that I'm not
force-feeding babies, I'm having to add KNO3 to keep the blue green
algae at bay.

Floaters do so well because they get CO2 from the atmosphere, and
intense light from sitting right under the bulbs.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[smcclure415]

Just checked the Ammonia Level, and it is 0PPM. The Nitrites are still
in the 5.0 ppm range. I'm doing another water change, splitting with
distilled water. Hopefully that will take care of that. I think the
Ammonia is low because I have added the Amquel plus.

Bought a couple of small plants...The LFS guy called them corkscrews or
somesuch.

As for the Nitrates...I thought I'd mentioned that I must have foobar'd
the test.

I'm just going to keep on the water changes, and wait for the tank to
cycle naturally.


On another note. Our new Plecostomas doesn't look like he is doing
very well. He is listless, and occasionally drifting motionlessly in
the current of the airbar. In addition he appears to be either growing
paler, or a white coating is forming on him. I guess it could be a
fungus, but I have no clue. When I returned to the pet store to
purchase the Ammonia kit, there were two other dead plecos in the tank
where I bought him. I don't have any where to put him, or I would pull
him from the tank.