Increasing tank capacity

[Peter in New Zealand]

I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and everything
seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started out with a
really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but didn't seem
to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits to see how it
worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do anything but the
most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you pay for, and it was
cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray internal filter. I keep it
running all the time and the filtering and circulation it provides is
wonderful. My question is this - does increasing the filtering increase
the practical capacity of the tank? In others words can I carry more
fish comfortably? Obviously there would be a practical limit to all
this, but within reasonable limits would this be a correct assumption?
The Hagen has plastic foam, for biological filtering I presume when the
bacteria get established, and two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks
for any comments - I really am a little new to all this.

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.

[NetMax]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
>I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and everything
>seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started out with a
>really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but didn't seem
>to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits to see how it
>worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do anything but the
>most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you pay for, and it was
>cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray internal filter. I keep it
>running all the time and the filtering and circulation it provides is
>wonderful. My question is this - does increasing the filtering increase
>the practical capacity of the tank? In others words can I carry more
>fish comfortably? Obviously there would be a practical limit to all
>this, but within reasonable limits would this be a correct assumption?
>The Hagen has plastic foam, for biological filtering I presume when the
>bacteria get established, and two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks
>for any comments - I really am a little new to all this.
>
> --
> Peter in New Zealand.
> Pull the plug out to reply.

You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for more
specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen Stingray, I
don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar Binks, and I don't
know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are goldfish, then your
aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally speaking, will need more
than average filtration (goldfish!).

Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a tall
narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the water.
Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface), but you
would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so might not be a
practical increase.

Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger filter
(on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more rapidly
adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of the larger
filter.

A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste, which
extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would need to
also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water changes) to
address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste accumulation and
dissolving back into the water).

As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
clean them on an alternating schedule.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Peter in New Zealand]

NetMax wrote:
> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and everything
>>seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started out with a
>>really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but didn't seem
>>to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits to see how it
>>worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do anything but the
>>most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you pay for, and it was
>>cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray internal filter. I keep it
>>running all the time and the filtering and circulation it provides is
>>wonderful. My question is this - does increasing the filtering increase
>>the practical capacity of the tank? In others words can I carry more
>>fish comfortably? Obviously there would be a practical limit to all
>>this, but within reasonable limits would this be a correct assumption?
>>The Hagen has plastic foam, for biological filtering I presume when the
>>bacteria get established, and two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks
>>for any comments - I really am a little new to all this.
>>
>>--
>>Peter in New Zealand.
>>Pull the plug out to reply.
>
>
> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for more
> specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen Stingray, I
> don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar Binks, and I don't
> know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are goldfish, then your
> aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally speaking, will need more
> than average filtration (goldfish!).
>
> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a tall
> narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the water.
> Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface), but you
> would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so might not be a
> practical increase.
>
> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger filter
> (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more rapidly
> adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of the larger
> filter.
>
> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste, which
> extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would need to
> also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water changes) to
> address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste accumulation and
> dissolving back into the water).
>
> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
> clean them on an alternating schedule.

The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US gallons,
and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three each
average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an UNF
with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as does the
Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a big tank I
agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped to be able to
slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little fellas in there. At
the oment after about a month's running the fish are happy, crap on the
bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2. What do you think? Can I
hope to increase from just three little inmates? Thanks.

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.

[Elaine T]

Peter in New Zealand wrote:
> NetMax wrote:
>
>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and
>>> everything seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started
>>> out with a really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but
>>> didn't seem to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits
>>> to see how it worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do
>>> anything but the most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you
>>> pay for, and it was cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray
>>> internal filter. I keep it running all the time and the filtering and
>>> circulation it provides is wonderful. My question is this - does
>>> increasing the filtering increase the practical capacity of the tank?
>>> In others words can I carry more fish comfortably? Obviously there
>>> would be a practical limit to all this, but within reasonable limits
>>> would this be a correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic foam, for
>>> biological filtering I presume when the bacteria get established, and
>>> two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any comments - I really
>>> am a little new to all this.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>
>>
>>
>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for
>> more specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen
>> Stingray, I don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar
>> Binks, and I don't know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are
>> goldfish, then your aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally
>> speaking, will need more than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>
>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so might
>> not be a practical increase.
>>
>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more
>> rapidly adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of the
>> larger filter.
>>
>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste, which
>> extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would need to
>> also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water changes)
>> to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste accumulation
>> and dissolving back into the water).
>>
>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>
>
> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US gallons,
> and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three each
> average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an UNF
> with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as does the
> Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a big tank I
> agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped to be able to
> slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little fellas in there. At
> the oment after about a month's running the fish are happy, crap on the
> bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2. What do you think? Can I
> hope to increase from just three little inmates? Thanks.
>
Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given clean
water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to that tank.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Peter in New Zealand]

Elaine T wrote:
> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>
>> NetMax wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and
>>>> everything seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started
>>>> out with a really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles
>>>> but didn't seem to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to
>>>> bits to see how it worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to
>>>> do anything but the most primitive filtering. I guess you get what
>>>> you pay for, and it was cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray
>>>> internal filter. I keep it running all the time and the filtering
>>>> and circulation it provides is wonderful. My question is this - does
>>>> increasing the filtering increase the practical capacity of the
>>>> tank? In others words can I carry more fish comfortably? Obviously
>>>> there would be a practical limit to all this, but within reasonable
>>>> limits would this be a correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic
>>>> foam, for biological filtering I presume when the bacteria get
>>>> established, and two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any
>>>> comments - I really am a little new to all this.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for
>>> more specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen
>>> Stingray, I don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar
>>> Binks, and I don't know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are
>>> goldfish, then your aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally
>>> speaking, will need more than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>
>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so
>>> might not be a practical increase.
>>>
>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more
>>> rapidly adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of
>>> the larger filter.
>>>
>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste,
>>> which extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would
>>> need to also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water
>>> changes) to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste
>>> accumulation and dissolving back into the water).
>>>
>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>
>>
>>
>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US
>> gallons, and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three
>> each average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an
>> UNF with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as
>> does the Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a
>> big tank I agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped
>> to be able to slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little
>> fellas in there. At the oment after about a month's running the fish
>> are happy, crap on the bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2.
>> What do you think? Can I hope to increase from just three little
>> inmates? Thanks.
>>
> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
> it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
> Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given clean
> water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to that tank.
>
Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?


--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.

[Dick]

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:34:53 +1200, Peter in New Zealand
> wrote:

>Elaine T wrote:
>> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>>
>>> NetMax wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and
>>>>> everything seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started
>>>>> out with a really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles
>>>>> but didn't seem to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to
>>>>> bits to see how it worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to
>>>>> do anything but the most primitive filtering. I guess you get what
>>>>> you pay for, and it was cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray
>>>>> internal filter. I keep it running all the time and the filtering
>>>>> and circulation it provides is wonderful. My question is this - does
>>>>> increasing the filtering increase the practical capacity of the
>>>>> tank? In others words can I carry more fish comfortably? Obviously
>>>>> there would be a practical limit to all this, but within reasonable
>>>>> limits would this be a correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic
>>>>> foam, for biological filtering I presume when the bacteria get
>>>>> established, and two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any
>>>>> comments - I really am a little new to all this.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for
>>>> more specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen
>>>> Stingray, I don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar
>>>> Binks, and I don't know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are
>>>> goldfish, then your aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally
>>>> speaking, will need more than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>>
>>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>>>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so
>>>> might not be a practical increase.
>>>>
>>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more
>>>> rapidly adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of
>>>> the larger filter.
>>>>
>>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste,
>>>> which extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would
>>>> need to also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water
>>>> changes) to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste
>>>> accumulation and dissolving back into the water).
>>>>
>>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US
>>> gallons, and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three
>>> each average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an
>>> UNF with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as
>>> does the Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a
>>> big tank I agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped
>>> to be able to slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little
>>> fellas in there. At the oment after about a month's running the fish
>>> are happy, crap on the bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2.
>>> What do you think? Can I hope to increase from just three little
>>> inmates? Thanks.
>>>
>> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
>> it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
>> Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given clean
>> water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to that tank.
>>
>Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
>limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?

I wouldn't count on it. I only have tropicals, but I do have 3 ten
gallon tanks. I have 2 Clown Loaches and 1 Siamese Algae Eater in one
of the 10 gallon tanks (along with 3 platties and 1 molly). All are
moderate sizes.

I think air bubblers are more efficient to increase the oxygen in the
tank water.

I have my own home grown attitude about filtration. I believe the
filtration is really a strainner, that is it holds larger solids, but
the constant flow of water erodes the larger solids down to smaller
sizes that then continue through the filter media. If so, why filter?
I think the smaller particles are more efficiently reduced by the
bacteria in the tank.

Why not use the solution lots of us use, buy a larger tank!
(Of course this would be set up in addition to your existing tank)

dick

[lgb]

In article >,
says...
> I have my own home grown attitude about filtration. I believe the
> filtration is really a strainner, that is it holds larger solids, but
> the constant flow of water erodes the larger solids down to smaller
> sizes that then continue through the filter media. If so, why filter?
> I think the smaller particles are more efficiently reduced by the
> bacteria in the tank.
>
Then what the heck is that junk I squeeze out of filter every month or
so? Even if it's all bacteria, which is doubtful, the filter makes a
great place for them to grow :-).

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[Elaine T]

Peter in New Zealand wrote:
> Elaine T wrote:
>
>> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>>
>>> NetMax wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just
>>>>> three fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and
>>>>> everything seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I
>>>>> started out with a really cheap internal filter that blew lots of
>>>>> bubbles but didn't seem to do a whole lot of filtering. When I
>>>>> pulled it to bits to see how it worked I just couldn't see how it
>>>>> was expected to do anything but the most primitive filtering. I
>>>>> guess you get what you pay for, and it was cheap. Recently I
>>>>> installed a Hagen Stingray internal filter. I keep it running all
>>>>> the time and the filtering and circulation it provides is
>>>>> wonderful. My question is this - does increasing the filtering
>>>>> increase the practical capacity of the tank? In others words can I
>>>>> carry more fish comfortably? Obviously there would be a practical
>>>>> limit to all this, but within reasonable limits would this be a
>>>>> correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic foam, for biological
>>>>> filtering I presume when the bacteria get established, and two
>>>>> activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any comments - I really am
>>>>> a little new to all this.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for
>>>> more specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen
>>>> Stingray, I don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar
>>>> Binks, and I don't know what your other 2 fish are. If all three
>>>> are goldfish, then your aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally
>>>> speaking, will need more than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>>
>>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the
>>>> surface), but you would get into trouble faster during a power
>>>> failure, so might not be a practical increase.
>>>>
>>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more
>>>> rapidly adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of
>>>> the larger filter.
>>>>
>>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste,
>>>> which extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would
>>>> need to also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water
>>>> changes) to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste
>>>> accumulation and dissolving back into the water).
>>>>
>>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US
>>> gallons, and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three
>>> each average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an
>>> UNF with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as
>>> does the Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a
>>> big tank I agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped
>>> to be able to slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little
>>> fellas in there. At the oment after about a month's running the fish
>>> are happy, crap on the bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2.
>>> What do you think? Can I hope to increase from just three little
>>> inmates? Thanks.
>>>
>> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste.
>> Believe it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per
>> adult fish. Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty
>> quickly given clean water and good food. I personally wouldn't add
>> any more fish to that tank.
>>
> Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
> limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?
>
The growth of goldfish is limited a bit by tank size. However, it's not
limited enough to keep 12 goldfish into a 10 gallon tank, and even three
is likely to be problematic. Under good conditions, adult comets can
reach 8" SL and even if they grow slowly or stunt, you are still likely
to end up with three 3-4" SL fish crammed into a 10 gallon tank (if none
die along the way).

If you're really set on having a large number of coldwater fish, return
the goldfish and get 10 white cloud minnows. They live well in cold
water, shoal attractively, only grow to an inch or so, and are fun to
watch as the males display to the females.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Peter in New Zealand]

--

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.
"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. ..
> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>> Elaine T wrote:
>>
>>> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>>>
>>>> NetMax wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>>>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and
>>>>>> everything seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started
>>>>>> out with a really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but
>>>>>> didn't seem to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits
>>>>>> to see how it worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do
>>>>>> anything but the most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you
>>>>>> pay for, and it was cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray
>>>>>> internal filter. I keep it running all the time and the filtering and
>>>>>> circulation it provides is wonderful. My question is this - does
>>>>>> increasing the filtering increase the practical capacity of the tank?
>>>>>> In others words can I carry more fish comfortably? Obviously there
>>>>>> would be a practical limit to all this, but within reasonable limits
>>>>>> would this be a correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic foam, for
>>>>>> biological filtering I presume when the bacteria get established, and
>>>>>> two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any comments - I really
>>>>>> am a little new to all this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for
>>>>> more specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen
>>>>> Stingray, I don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar
>>>>> Binks, and I don't know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are
>>>>> goldfish, then your aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally
>>>>> speaking, will need more than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>>>>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so might
>>>>> not be a practical increase.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more
>>>>> rapidly adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of the
>>>>> larger filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste, which
>>>>> extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would need to
>>>>> also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water changes)
>>>>> to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste accumulation
>>>>> and dissolving back into the water).
>>>>>
>>>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US
>>>> gallons, and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three
>>>> each average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an
>>>> UNF with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as
>>>> does the Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a big
>>>> tank I agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped to be
>>>> able to slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little fellas in
>>>> there. At the oment after about a month's running the fish are happy,
>>>> crap on the bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2. What do you
>>>> think? Can I hope to increase from just three little inmates? Thanks.
>>>>
>>> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
>>> it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
>>> Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given clean
>>> water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to that
>>> tank.
>>>
>> Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
>> limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?
>>
> The growth of goldfish is limited a bit by tank size. However, it's not
> limited enough to keep 12 goldfish into a 10 gallon tank, and even three
> is likely to be problematic. Under good conditions, adult comets can
> reach 8" SL and even if they grow slowly or stunt, you are still likely to
> end up with three 3-4" SL fish crammed into a 10 gallon tank (if none die
> along the way).
>
> If you're really set on having a large number of coldwater fish, return
> the goldfish and get 10 white cloud minnows. They live well in cold
> water, shoal attractively, only grow to an inch or so, and are fun to
> watch as the males display to the females.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Hey I might ask about them - thanks. It sounds as though the goldfish might
not be so good in the long run. As for the kind suggestion about getting
another, larger tank - well - isn't that how it all starts? I mean, one
tank, and then a second larger on is required, and so on, and so on, and so
on!!! I can see this hobby getting rather big after a while. (chuckle).

--

--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.

[Scott]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
> Elaine T wrote:
>> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>>
>>> NetMax wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and everything
>>>>> seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started out with a
>>>>> really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but didn't seem
>>>>> to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits to see how it
>>>>> worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do anything but the
>>>>> most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you pay for, and it was
>>>>> cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray internal filter. I keep
>>>>> it running all the time and the filtering and circulation it provides
>>>>> is wonderful. My question is this - does increasing the filtering
>>>>> increase the practical capacity of the tank? In others words can I
>>>>> carry more fish comfortably? Obviously there would be a practical
>>>>> limit to all this, but within reasonable limits would this be a
>>>>> correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic foam, for biological
>>>>> filtering I presume when the bacteria get established, and two
>>>>> activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any comments - I really am a
>>>>> little new to all this.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for more
>>>> specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen Stingray, I
>>>> don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar Binks, and I don't
>>>> know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are goldfish, then your
>>>> aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally speaking, will need more
>>>> than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>>
>>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>>>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so might
>>>> not be a practical increase.
>>>>
>>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more rapidly
>>>> adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of the larger
>>>> filter.
>>>>
>>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste, which
>>>> extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would need to
>>>> also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water changes)
>>>> to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste accumulation
>>>> and dissolving back into the water).
>>>>
>>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US gallons,
>>> and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three each
>>> average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an UNF
>>> with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as does the
>>> Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a big tank I
>>> agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped to be able to
>>> slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little fellas in there. At
>>> the oment after about a month's running the fish are happy, crap on the
>>> bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2. What do you think? Can I
>>> hope to increase from just three little inmates? Thanks.
>>>
>> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
>> it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
>> Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given clean
>> water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to that
>> tank.
>>
> Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
> limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?
>
>
> --
> Peter in New Zealand.
> Pull the plug out to reply.

So if I put my kids in a box, they are going to stop growing to fit the
space they are in? Sounds convenient... they are big enough as it is... less
food and less clothes to buy...

---scott

[Peter in New Zealand]

Blimey, I wish. My 15.5 year old son outgrows his entire wardrobe every few
weeks! No kidding! But I take your point, and I am beginning to see that
there's a lot to goldfish I never thought of. That'll teach me to think that
just because I used to run tropicals they would be more or less similar,
only colder.

Sigh! I might look at the white clouds, or even consider going back
tropical. At least all I would need would be the heater now. At the moment
it's sitting bang on minus two degrees celcius outside (just checked the
thermometer), so tropicals sound kind of attractive.

Hey, thank you everyone who responded to my posts. You are a very helpful
lot and good to interact with.
--
Peter in New Zealand.
Pull the plug out to reply.


"Scott" <smaxell1{at}hotmail.com> wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Elaine T wrote:
>>> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>>>
>>>> NetMax wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>>>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and
>>>>>> everything seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started
>>>>>> out with a really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but
>>>>>> didn't seem to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits
>>>>>> to see how it worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do
>>>>>> anything but the most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you
>>>>>> pay for, and it was cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray
>>>>>> internal filter. I keep it running all the time and the filtering and
>>>>>> circulation it provides is wonderful. My question is this - does
>>>>>> increasing the filtering increase the practical capacity of the tank?
>>>>>> In others words can I carry more fish comfortably? Obviously there
>>>>>> would be a practical limit to all this, but within reasonable limits
>>>>>> would this be a correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic foam, for
>>>>>> biological filtering I presume when the bacteria get established, and
>>>>>> two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any comments - I really
>>>>>> am a little new to all this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for
>>>>> more specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen
>>>>> Stingray, I don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar
>>>>> Binks, and I don't know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are
>>>>> goldfish, then your aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally
>>>>> speaking, will need more than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>>>>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so might
>>>>> not be a practical increase.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more
>>>>> rapidly adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of the
>>>>> larger filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste, which
>>>>> extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would need to
>>>>> also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water changes)
>>>>> to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste accumulation
>>>>> and dissolving back into the water).
>>>>>
>>>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US
>>>> gallons, and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three
>>>> each average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an
>>>> UNF with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as
>>>> does the Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a big
>>>> tank I agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped to be
>>>> able to slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little fellas in
>>>> there. At the oment after about a month's running the fish are happy,
>>>> crap on the bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2. What do you
>>>> think? Can I hope to increase from just three little inmates? Thanks.
>>>>
>>> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
>>> it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
>>> Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given clean
>>> water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to that
>>> tank.
>>>
>> Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
>> limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter in New Zealand.
>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>
> So if I put my kids in a box, they are going to stop growing to fit the
> space they are in? Sounds convenient... they are big enough as it is...
> less food and less clothes to buy...
>
> ---scott
>
>

[Dick]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:04:49 -0700, lgb > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> I have my own home grown attitude about filtration. I believe the
>> filtration is really a strainner, that is it holds larger solids, but
>> the constant flow of water erodes the larger solids down to smaller
>> sizes that then continue through the filter media. If so, why filter?
>> I think the smaller particles are more efficiently reduced by the
>> bacteria in the tank.
>>
>Then what the heck is that junk I squeeze out of filter every month or
>so? Even if it's all bacteria, which is doubtful, the filter makes a
>great place for them to grow :-).


I said "strainer," the larger particles do collect, but I am saying
over time erosion reduces the particles size and they can then flow
through the media. However, the erosion isn't fast enough to prevent
the media from clogging and I go through the cleaning process.

The only value to my theory is to avoid fear of spilling the larger
pieces back into the tank. The stuff isn't toxic, it just needs to be
processed by the bacteria to turn into something else that is
ecologically useful. I know that the original filter media which
comes with the power filter was more porous and I could see small
particles floating in the tank water. I changed to a finer media and
the water appears clear, but I bet there are just smaller particles
that I can't see. Now I pull the cartridges without turning off the
pump so that residue on the bottom of the power filter is moved back
into the tank while I am cleaning the media, then I put the cartridges
back in. The stuff will get back in to the filter with time and
slowly be eroded or biodegraded.

Are you of the opinion that all the waste is captured by the media and
stays there until you clean the media? The media itself is passive,
right?

dick

[Dick]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:48:40 -0400, "Scott" <smaxell1{at}hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
>> Elaine T wrote:
>>> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>>>
>>>> NetMax wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>>>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and everything
>>>>>> seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started out with a
>>>>>> really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but didn't seem
>>>>>> to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits to see how it
>>>>>> worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do anything but the
>>>>>> most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you pay for, and it was
>>>>>> cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray internal filter. I keep
>>>>>> it running all the time and the filtering and circulation it provides
>>>>>> is wonderful. My question is this - does increasing the filtering
>>>>>> increase the practical capacity of the tank? In others words can I
>>>>>> carry more fish comfortably? Obviously there would be a practical
>>>>>> limit to all this, but within reasonable limits would this be a
>>>>>> correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic foam, for biological
>>>>>> filtering I presume when the bacteria get established, and two
>>>>>> activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any comments - I really am a
>>>>>> little new to all this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for more
>>>>> specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen Stingray, I
>>>>> don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar Binks, and I don't
>>>>> know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are goldfish, then your
>>>>> aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally speaking, will need more
>>>>> than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>>>>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so might
>>>>> not be a practical increase.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more rapidly
>>>>> adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of the larger
>>>>> filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste, which
>>>>> extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would need to
>>>>> also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water changes)
>>>>> to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste accumulation
>>>>> and dissolving back into the water).
>>>>>
>>>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US gallons,
>>>> and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three each
>>>> average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an UNF
>>>> with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as does the
>>>> Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a big tank I
>>>> agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped to be able to
>>>> slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little fellas in there. At
>>>> the oment after about a month's running the fish are happy, crap on the
>>>> bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2. What do you think? Can I
>>>> hope to increase from just three little inmates? Thanks.
>>>>
>>> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
>>> it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
>>> Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given clean
>>> water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to that
>>> tank.
>>>
>> Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
>> limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter in New Zealand.
>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>
>So if I put my kids in a box, they are going to stop growing to fit the
>space they are in? Sounds convenient... they are big enough as it is... less
>food and less clothes to buy...
>
>---scott
>
I believe it was the ancient Chinese that would tightly bind the feet
of aristocratic girls to keep them small indicating they were not born
to be useful. Maybe someone remembers more accurate information about
this discontinued practice.

dick

[Scott]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
> Blimey, I wish. My 15.5 year old son outgrows his entire wardrobe every
> few weeks! No kidding! But I take your point, and I am beginning to see
> that there's a lot to goldfish I never thought of. That'll teach me to
> think that just because I used to run tropicals they would be more or less
> similar, only colder.
>
> Sigh! I might look at the white clouds, or even consider going back
> tropical. At least all I would need would be the heater now. At the moment
> it's sitting bang on minus two degrees celcius outside (just checked the
> thermometer), so tropicals sound kind of attractive.
>
> Hey, thank you everyone who responded to my posts. You are a very helpful
> lot and good to interact with.
> --
> Peter in New Zealand.
> Pull the plug out to reply.
>
>
> "Scott" <smaxell1{at}hotmail.com> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Elaine T wrote:
>>>> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> NetMax wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>>>>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and
>>>>>>> everything seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started
>>>>>>> out with a really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles
>>>>>>> but didn't seem to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to
>>>>>>> bits to see how it worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to
>>>>>>> do anything but the most primitive filtering. I guess you get what
>>>>>>> you pay for, and it was cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray
>>>>>>> internal filter. I keep it running all the time and the filtering
>>>>>>> and circulation it provides is wonderful. My question is this - does
>>>>>>> increasing the filtering increase the practical capacity of the
>>>>>>> tank? In others words can I carry more fish comfortably? Obviously
>>>>>>> there would be a practical limit to all this, but within reasonable
>>>>>>> limits would this be a correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic
>>>>>>> foam, for biological filtering I presume when the bacteria get
>>>>>>> established, and two activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any
>>>>>>> comments - I really am a little new to all this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for
>>>>>> more specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen
>>>>>> Stingray, I don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar
>>>>>> Binks, and I don't know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are
>>>>>> goldfish, then your aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally
>>>>>> speaking, will need more than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>>>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>>>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>>>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>>>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>>>>>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so
>>>>>> might not be a practical increase.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>>>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more
>>>>>> rapidly adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of
>>>>>> the larger filter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste,
>>>>>> which extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would
>>>>>> need to also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water
>>>>>> changes) to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste
>>>>>> accumulation and dissolving back into the water).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>>>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>>>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US
>>>>> gallons, and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three
>>>>> each average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an
>>>>> UNF with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as
>>>>> does the Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a
>>>>> big tank I agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped
>>>>> to be able to slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little
>>>>> fellas in there. At the oment after about a month's running the fish
>>>>> are happy, crap on the bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2.
>>>>> What do you think? Can I hope to increase from just three little
>>>>> inmates? Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
>>>> it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
>>>> Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given
>>>> clean water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to
>>>> that tank.
>>>>
>>> Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
>>> limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>
>> So if I put my kids in a box, they are going to stop growing to fit the
>> space they are in? Sounds convenient... they are big enough as it is...
>> less food and less clothes to buy...
>>
>> ---scott
>>
>>
>
>

By the way, I didn't intend that to sound as sarcastic as it does after
reading it again ;)

---scott

[Scott]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:48:40 -0400, "Scott" <smaxell1{at}hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
>>> Elaine T wrote:
>>>> Peter in New Zealand wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> NetMax wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a medium sized tank which is very underloaded with just three
>>>>>>> fish. It's been running like this for about a month now and
>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>> seems to have settled down and got comfortable. I started out with a
>>>>>>> really cheap internal filter that blew lots of bubbles but didn't
>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>> to do a whole lot of filtering. When I pulled it to bits to see how
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> worked I just couldn't see how it was expected to do anything but
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> most primitive filtering. I guess you get what you pay for, and it
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> cheap. Recently I installed a Hagen Stingray internal filter. I keep
>>>>>>> it running all the time and the filtering and circulation it
>>>>>>> provides
>>>>>>> is wonderful. My question is this - does increasing the filtering
>>>>>>> increase the practical capacity of the tank? In others words can I
>>>>>>> carry more fish comfortably? Obviously there would be a practical
>>>>>>> limit to all this, but within reasonable limits would this be a
>>>>>>> correct assumption? The Hagen has plastic foam, for biological
>>>>>>> filtering I presume when the bacteria get established, and two
>>>>>>> activated carbon cartridges. Thanks for any comments - I really am a
>>>>>>> little new to all this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>>>>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You would need to specify how many gallons your medium tank is for
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> specific advice, but if I recall the design of the Hagen Stingray, I
>>>>>> don't think that would keep up with only one Jar Jar Binks, and I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> know what your other 2 fish are. If all three are goldfish, then
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> aquarium is between 30 and 60g and generally speaking, will need more
>>>>>> than average filtration (goldfish!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Generally, increasing the filtration (by adding more filters) will
>>>>>> increase the tank's capacity, however whether this is a practical
>>>>>> increase depends on what the next constraint is. For example, in a
>>>>>> tall narrow tank, an early constraint is the re-oxygenation of the
>>>>>> water. Extra filtration might help (extra turbulence at the surface),
>>>>>> but you would get into trouble faster during a power failure, so
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> not be a practical increase.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another example is substituting the only filter with a much larger
>>>>>> filter (on any tank). Any single mechanical failure would more
>>>>>> rapidly
>>>>>> adversely affect the fish if you had added more because of the larger
>>>>>> filter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A last example is that adding more fish load creates more waste,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> extra filtering will help with but only to a point. You would need
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> also increase the other maintenance (gravel vacuuming, water changes)
>>>>>> to address what the filter cannot help with (solid waste accumulation
>>>>>> and dissolving back into the water).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a general rule (which works nicely with goldfish), if you need
>>>>>> filtration for a 40g, then use two filters, each rated for a 30g and
>>>>>> clean them on an alternating schedule.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The tank is a 37.5 litre, which I think converts to about 10 US
>>>>> gallons,
>>>>> and the other two fish are humble little goldfish. The three each
>>>>> average about 5 to 6 centimetres long, including tail. I have an UNF
>>>>> with two risers driven by an air pump that runs continually, as does
>>>>> the
>>>>> Stingray, so I assume aeration is not an issue. It's not a big tank I
>>>>> agree, but it does look rather underpopulated. I had hoped to be able
>>>>> to
>>>>> slowly ramp up to about ten or twelve of the little fellas in there.
>>>>> At
>>>>> the oment after about a month's running the fish are happy, crap on
>>>>> the
>>>>> bottom is minimal, ph is steady at around 7.2. What do you think? Can
>>>>> I
>>>>> hope to increase from just three little inmates? Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>> Healthy goldfish grow rather large and put out a lot of waste. Believe
>>>> it or not, goldfish fanciers like to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.
>>>> Your fish are juveniles, but goldies can grow pretty quickly given
>>>> clean
>>>> water and good food. I personally wouldn't add any more fish to that
>>>> tank.
>>>>
>>> Hoo, ah, well, that's disappointing. You don't think their growth can be
>>> limited by the size of their environment like some tropicals are?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter in New Zealand.
>>> Pull the plug out to reply.
>>
>>So if I put my kids in a box, they are going to stop growing to fit the
>>space they are in? Sounds convenient... they are big enough as it is...
>>less
>>food and less clothes to buy...
>>
>>---scott
>>
> I believe it was the ancient Chinese that would tightly bind the feet
> of aristocratic girls to keep them small indicating they were not born
> to be useful. Maybe someone remembers more accurate information about
> this discontinued practice.
>
> dick

So instead of keeping them in a small tank, we should tie them up with
string? ;)

I vaguely remember hearing about the footing binding thing at one point or
another... I will have to go get some string - of maybe thread will work,
lol.

---scott

[Peter in New Zealand]

>>
>
> By the way, I didn't intend that to sound as sarcastic as it does after
> reading it again ;)
>
> ---scott
No problem. I've been on Usenet for almost ten years and I know all the
glitches that can occur. Even caused a few firestorms myself without ever
meaning to. It's a funny old world, and I have to say that the regulars on
this group seem to be pretty decent.

Now I'M worried in case that seems patronising - O blast! Just take it at
surface value. (Or try running it through an UGF.)

--
Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
compulsive computer fiddler.

[Gazoo0]

In other words lets relax. Were all friends here. :-)

Ross