Acquired used tank complete with 10 cichlids!

[coolchinchilla]

I bought a tank setup from someone who is moving on Sunday. It
includes 10 cichlids and a pleco. My water was very different than
the aquarium water so I took 2+ hours to aclimate them via the drip
method and I took as much aquarium water as I could. I just let
them loose in the tank. Poor guys. They were definately stressed
being in that 2-gallon bucket, but I had to take it slow. I just
hope I was slow enough.

:-) This is going to be fun.

Linda and the zoo

[Gill Passman]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
> I bought a tank setup from someone who is moving on Sunday. It
> includes 10 cichlids and a pleco. My water was very different than
> the aquarium water so I took 2+ hours to aclimate them via the drip
> method and I took as much aquarium water as I could. I just let
> them loose in the tank. Poor guys. They were definately stressed
> being in that 2-gallon bucket, but I had to take it slow. I just
> hope I was slow enough.
>
> :-) This is going to be fun.
>
> Linda and the zoo

What cichlids did you end up with?

Gill

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
.. .
>
> "coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I bought a tank setup from someone who is moving on Sunday. It
>> includes 10 cichlids and a pleco. My water was very different than
>> the aquarium water so I took 2+ hours to aclimate them via the drip
>> method and I took as much aquarium water as I could. I just let
>> them loose in the tank. Poor guys. They were definately stressed
>> being in that 2-gallon bucket, but I had to take it slow. I just
>> hope I was slow enough.
>>
>> :-) This is going to be fun.
>>
>> Linda and the zoo
>
> What cichlids did you end up with?
>
> Gill


I think it was a tank of mbuna (Malawian rock-dwelling cichlids).

Linda, check out info on starting a new tank with fish as you will
probably be dealing with an ammonia and nitrite spike. Bio-spira and/or
aged filter media (bacteria starter) would be helpful in that case.
Ammonia is quite toxic at high pH so water changes will be your friend.
At the nitrite stage, salt is helpful (mbuna shimmy when there is nitrite
in the water). If you want to reduce aggression while this is going on
(removing a stressor), sometimes not having anything in the tank works
(no rocks, ornaments etc), but note that this technique works very well
with strangers but varies with fish which are accustomed to each other
(they will battle out of habit even without something to fight over).
Avoid over-feeding them until you know the tank is cycled. The warmer
the water, the quicker their metabolism (they are hungrier, more
aggressive etc) so I would dial it down a bit (74-75F) as opposed to the
more common 77-78F. There are various mbuna links on my site. Here are a
few with lots of pictures for identifying what you have:
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidrecipe/crindx.htm
http://www.cichlidlovers.com/gallery.htm
http://malawicichlids.com/index.htm

hth, have fun!
--
www.NetMax.tk

[coolchinchilla]

NetMax wrote:

> I think it was a tank of mbuna (Malawian rock-dwelling cichlids).
>
> Linda, check out info on starting a new tank with fish as you will
> probably be dealing with an ammonia and nitrite spike. Bio-spira and/or
> aged filter media (bacteria starter) would be helpful in that case.
> Ammonia is quite toxic at high pH so water changes will be your friend.
> At the nitrite stage, salt is helpful (mbuna shimmy when there is nitrite
> in the water). If you want to reduce aggression while this is going on
> (removing a stressor), sometimes not having anything in the tank works
> (no rocks, ornaments etc), but note that this technique works very well
> with strangers but varies with fish which are accustomed to each other
> (they will battle out of habit even without something to fight over).
> Avoid over-feeding them until you know the tank is cycled. The warmer
> the water, the quicker their metabolism (they are hungrier, more
> aggressive etc) so I would dial it down a bit (74-75F) as opposed to the
> more common 77-78F. There are various mbuna links on my site. Here are a
> few with lots of pictures for identifying what you have:
> http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidrecipe/crindx.htm
> http://www.cichlidlovers.com/gallery.htm
> http://malawicichlids.com/index.htm
>
> hth, have fun!

Thanks! That helps tons.

I am certainly worried about the nitrogen cycle for these guys.
They sure are bulky. I'm used to little neon tetras! I put in
gravel and a filter from an established tank. It already had a
mature sponge filter. I was able to take about 8 gallons of the old
tank water and put in a couple gallons from my established tank. I'm
hoping bacteria was still on the rock-work when I put them in the
tank. I'm over-filtering right now.

I'm doing a fishless cycle on the 30-gallon tank so everyone and
hopefully all the good bacteria are in the 20-gallon tank.

The guy I bought this from feeds "two tablespoons" of fish flakes
twice a day. (That makes one fourth cup/day for 10 cichlids and a
pleco) That sounds like a lot to me. I've been looking on the net
to find somewhere that can tell me if this is too much or not. The
usual advice is to feed what the fish can eat in 3 minutes (or 5
minutes). That doesn't help me much. For my tiny fish I read that
their stomaches are as big as their eye and try to give one flake
per fish.

Can anyone give me a better idea of what a cichlid eats? (3-4
inches long)

For water changes I was thinking I should change a gallon or two
every day to offset the initial spikes. Does that sound right?
Should it be more or less frequent?

Sorry for so many questions. I feel anxious for my new arrivals.

Thanks in advance.

[Gill Passman]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
> NetMax wrote:
>
> > I think it was a tank of mbuna (Malawian rock-dwelling cichlids).
> >
> > Linda, check out info on starting a new tank with fish as you will
> > probably be dealing with an ammonia and nitrite spike. Bio-spira and/or
> > aged filter media (bacteria starter) would be helpful in that case.
> > Ammonia is quite toxic at high pH so water changes will be your friend.
> > At the nitrite stage, salt is helpful (mbuna shimmy when there is
nitrite
> > in the water). If you want to reduce aggression while this is going on
> > (removing a stressor), sometimes not having anything in the tank works
> > (no rocks, ornaments etc), but note that this technique works very well
> > with strangers but varies with fish which are accustomed to each other
> > (they will battle out of habit even without something to fight over).
> > Avoid over-feeding them until you know the tank is cycled. The warmer
> > the water, the quicker their metabolism (they are hungrier, more
> > aggressive etc) so I would dial it down a bit (74-75F) as opposed to the
> > more common 77-78F. There are various mbuna links on my site. Here are
a
> > few with lots of pictures for identifying what you have:
> > http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidrecipe/crindx.htm
> > http://www.cichlidlovers.com/gallery.htm
> > http://malawicichlids.com/index.htm
> >
> > hth, have fun!
>
> Thanks! That helps tons.
>
> I am certainly worried about the nitrogen cycle for these guys.
> They sure are bulky. I'm used to little neon tetras! I put in
> gravel and a filter from an established tank. It already had a
> mature sponge filter. I was able to take about 8 gallons of the old
> tank water and put in a couple gallons from my established tank. I'm
> hoping bacteria was still on the rock-work when I put them in the
> tank. I'm over-filtering right now.
>
> I'm doing a fishless cycle on the 30-gallon tank so everyone and
> hopefully all the good bacteria are in the 20-gallon tank.
>
> The guy I bought this from feeds "two tablespoons" of fish flakes
> twice a day. (That makes one fourth cup/day for 10 cichlids and a
> pleco) That sounds like a lot to me. I've been looking on the net
> to find somewhere that can tell me if this is too much or not. The
> usual advice is to feed what the fish can eat in 3 minutes (or 5
> minutes). That doesn't help me much. For my tiny fish I read that
> their stomaches are as big as their eye and try to give one flake
> per fish.
>
> Can anyone give me a better idea of what a cichlid eats? (3-4
> inches long)
>
> For water changes I was thinking I should change a gallon or two
> every day to offset the initial spikes. Does that sound right?
> Should it be more or less frequent?
>
> Sorry for so many questions. I feel anxious for my new arrivals.
>
> Thanks in advance.

I've got 15 Mbuna (plus around 4 babies I think - hard to spot in the rock
work) and 1 Plec in my tank. They get around 1 teaspoon of Spirulina Cichlid
sticks twice a day. This gets swopped out for frozen brine shrimp around two
to three feeds a week (usually 2 ice cubes) or sometimes peas (cooked and
skinned). It has to be said I've never seen the Plec eat anything other than
algae - I used to put stuff in for him and ended up having to pull it back
out all the time - he's still growing and doesn't look malnourished.

Just fed them and we are up to 5 babies :-)

Gill

[Scat]

Hi there,

Im wondering-Are you keeping neons with the cichlids at the moment? Be
careful they don't become fish food! Perhaps you should use a
separator for now.

Neons and cichlids also prefer water from opposite ends of the
scale.Neons prefer soft acidic water, but will tolerate slightly
alkaline water. African Cichlids like the water hard and between PH 7.6
- 8.2.

What are your water readings?

You could use Cycle by Hagen, which has good bacteria that use up
ammonia and nitrites. Use that in your 20 g tank until the 30g has
cycled properly. Then change 20% of the water once a week to get rid of
excess nitrates.

[NetMax]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
> NetMax wrote:
>
>> I think it was a tank of mbuna (Malawian rock-dwelling cichlids).
>>
>> Linda, check out info on starting a new tank with fish as you will
>> probably be dealing with an ammonia and nitrite spike. Bio-spira
>> and/or aged filter media (bacteria starter) would be helpful in that
>> case. Ammonia is quite toxic at high pH so water changes will be your
>> friend. At the nitrite stage, salt is helpful (mbuna shimmy when there
>> is nitrite in the water). If you want to reduce aggression while this
>> is going on (removing a stressor), sometimes not having anything in
>> the tank works (no rocks, ornaments etc), but note that this technique
>> works very well with strangers but varies with fish which are
>> accustomed to each other (they will battle out of habit even without
>> something to fight over). Avoid over-feeding them until you know the
>> tank is cycled. The warmer the water, the quicker their metabolism
>> (they are hungrier, more aggressive etc) so I would dial it down a bit
>> (74-75F) as opposed to the more common 77-78F. There are various mbuna
>> links on my site. Here are a few with lots of pictures for
>> identifying what you have:
>> http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidrecipe/crindx.htm
>> http://www.cichlidlovers.com/gallery.htm
>> http://malawicichlids.com/index.htm
>>
>> hth, have fun!
>
> Thanks! That helps tons.
>
> I am certainly worried about the nitrogen cycle for these guys. They
> sure are bulky. I'm used to little neon tetras! I put in gravel and a
> filter from an established tank. It already had a mature sponge
> filter. I was able to take about 8 gallons of the old tank water and
> put in a couple gallons from my established tank. I'm hoping bacteria
> was still on the rock-work when I put them in the tank. I'm
> over-filtering right now.

Sounds like a good plan. The water itself won't have much in terms of
the nitrifying bacteria, but it does ease their acclimation process.

> I'm doing a fishless cycle on the 30-gallon tank so everyone and
> hopefully all the good bacteria are in the 20-gallon tank.

The Biospira is the only bacteria starter which seems to have a consensus
on its effectivity. I've used the Cycle product from Hagen, and found
that it was of minimal value, with only a moderate reduction in the first
ammonia stage, but my experience was not under tightly controlled and
monitored results.

If you already have established tank, you should not need bacteria
starter or fishless cycling again. These bacteria are easy to move
within filter media, ornaments and plants.

> The guy I bought this from feeds "two tablespoons" of fish flakes twice
> a day. (That makes one fourth cup/day for 10 cichlids and a pleco)
> That sounds like a lot to me. I've been looking on the net to find
> somewhere that can tell me if this is too much or not. The usual
> advice is to feed what the fish can eat in 3 minutes (or 5 minutes).
> That doesn't help me much. For my tiny fish I read that their
> stomaches are as big as their eye and try to give one flake per fish.
>
> Can anyone give me a better idea of what a cichlid eats? (3-4 inches
> long)

Flake food is not ideal for 3 to 4 inch cichlids. At this size, pellets
are much more manageable and less polluting. For maintenance, 2 pellets
a day (each! ;~) would be fine. For growth, 3 to 4 plus live/frozen
augments. When you underfeed, the physical signs are a sunken belly, but
the behaviour signs come much earlier (they start picking each other off
to reduce competition to the limited food supply). You can reduce the
feedings until they start becoming problematic with each other (in
theory, but in practice, you need to be relatively observant to do this
properly).

Ordinarily I would just feed the normal amount and do more water changes,
but as these fish are new to you, the normal amount is not well defined
so experiment a little and try to find the lower limits (within reason of
course). The fish are adapting to new surrounding and they can adapt to
new foods and quantities. The priority is to control the amount of
pollution until you have your bacteria 'engine' at full power.

> For water changes I was thinking I should change a gallon or two every
> day to offset the initial spikes. Does that sound right? Should it be
> more or less frequent?

Water change quantity and frequency really needs to be done empirically
(as required), which you might find is very little one day, and within 1
or 2 days, might be large amounts of water. Check daily and be ready to
react, as it does sneak up on you sometimes.

> Sorry for so many questions. I feel anxious for my new arrivals.

: ) We are here for you.

> Thanks in advance.

--
www.NetMax.tk

[coolchinchilla]

Scat wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Im wondering-Are you keeping neons with the cichlids at the moment? Be
> careful they don't become fish food!

LOL! No, my neons, danios & pygmy corys are in a different tank
which has a much better ratio of fish to water (6 fish to 15 gallons.

> What are your water readings?
I did a 10% water change and just tested my water with dipsticks
(not accurate - I know)
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20-40 ppm
pH: greater than 8.4
alkalinity: 75ppm
ammonia - the alerter thing says "medium" (it has three readings:
"safe," "medium" & "high")

I added about 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt.

I want to use AmquelPlus to get rid of the ammonia but I've read
that Amquel slows the growth of the good bacteria.

> You could use Cycle by Hagen

I own StressZyme which is supposed to have good bacteria. I put
some into the tank with the cichlids every day. I hope it helps 'em.

Thanks for the advice!
coolchinchilla

[Scat]

Id change some more water to reduce the nitrates to at least 20ppm, and
to help with the ammonia.
Have the fish settled in ok?

[DanRad]

A good rule of thumb for food amounts is how much they'll eat in 2-4
minutes. Some people more knowledgeable about Mbunas than I am recommend
feeding them only once a day, or even once every 2 days. Good luck with
your new collection. These are very entertaining fish.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

[coolchinchilla]

Scat wrote:
> Id change some more water to reduce the nitrates to at least 20ppm, and
> to help with the ammonia.
> Have the fish settled in ok?
>

I did change some more water so it should help. It seems that
they've settled in -- can't be sure.

I have the 30-gallon tank ready for them. It's not cycled but
neither is the 20-gallon. I'll put in all the bacteria seeding I
can (filter media, gravel, plastic plants, etc). It will be a
stress for them to move again, but at least the 30-gallon will be
easier to keep the ammonia, etc. in check. I ordered a master test
kit from Big Al's so then I'll be able to monitor the water better.

I feel bad for these guys. Hope they make it.

coolchinchilla.