More Reef questions

[Ktulu]

Okay, you guys have been some major, major help lately, and
I appreciate it!

This morning I woke up, to find that 85% of the hair algae that had been
accumulating over the last 7 days, has disappeared. There are no fish
in the tank, only approximately 12-13 pounds of LR. Is this normal???

With me being new to the hobby, my wife brought my attention to a
creature floating on top, that looked like a white worm with a million
legs. She brought it out of the water and was so freaked out by it,
smooshed it on the top of the tank.

Is this normal? Was that a bristle worm? And if it was are they
okay to have in limited quanities? I was always told they are
bad for the tank.

Thanks for everyones help/comments.
----------------------
Jim (email:
Remove (bee) to email me.

[Thomas Bishop]

"Ktulu" -834-this> wrote in message .
> This morning I woke up, to find that 85% of the hair algae that had been
> accumulating over the last 7 days, has disappeared. There are no fish
> in the tank, only approximately 12-13 pounds of LR. Is this normal???

Congratulations. Toss some of that luck my way.

> With me being new to the hobby, my wife brought my attention to a
> creature floating on top, that looked like a white worm with a million
> legs. She brought it out of the water and was so freaked out by it,
> smooshed it on the top of the tank.
>
> Is this normal? Was that a bristle worm? And if it was are they
> okay to have in limited quanities? I was always told they are
> bad for the tank.

Sounds like a bristle worm to me. They usually don't float in the water,
though. They look like centipedes. Yes, they are good for your tank.

[Marc Levenson]

http://www.melevsreef.com/id/bristleworm.html

Marc


Ktulu wrote:

> Okay, you guys have been some major, major help lately, and
> I appreciate it!
>
> This morning I woke up, to find that 85% of the hair algae that had been
> accumulating over the last 7 days, has disappeared. There are no fish
> in the tank, only approximately 12-13 pounds of LR. Is this normal???
>
> With me being new to the hobby, my wife brought my attention to a
> creature floating on top, that looked like a white worm with a million
> legs. She brought it out of the water and was so freaked out by it,
> smooshed it on the top of the tank.
>
> Is this normal? Was that a bristle worm? And if it was are they
> okay to have in limited quanities? I was always told they are
> bad for the tank.
>
> Thanks for everyones help/comments.
> ----------------------
> Jim (email:
> Remove (bee) to email me.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Steve Wolfe]

> Okay, you guys have been some major, major help lately, and
> I appreciate it!
>
> This morning I woke up, to find that 85% of the hair algae that had been
> accumulating over the last 7 days, has disappeared. There are no fish
> in the tank, only approximately 12-13 pounds of LR. Is this normal???

It's not entirely normal, but it's not entirely unheard of, either.

Despite the claims of companies who claim that their chemicals will rid
your tank of algae, the keeping of algae at low levels is largely due to two
things: First, herbivores, and second, nutrient reuse/recycling. A great
deal of the animals that live in and on live rock are herbivores and/or
detrivores. I've seen hair algae "disappearing" despite the lack of any
animal *appearing* to eat it, because the animals that *were* feeding on it
were too small to be noticed unless you were looking for them.

> Is this normal? Was that a bristle worm? And if it was are they
> okay to have in limited quanities? I was always told they are
> bad for the tank.

They're great for the tank, but bad for the hands.

steve

[Dragon Slayer]

"Steve Wolfe" > wrote in message
...


> Despite the claims of companies who claim that their chemicals will rid
> your tank of algae, the keeping of algae at low levels is largely due to
two
> things: First, herbivores, and second, nutrient
reuse/recycling..................


IME the #1 cause of unwanted nuisance algae such as hair algae is imporper
lighting.

i have a 55 gallon tank i use to grow out / cure live rock and live sand in,
it has 2x55 PC lighting. one end of the tank has a new 50/50 bulb and the
other end has a 18 month old "daylight" bulb. with good circulation in the
tank the water from one end to the other would IMO be identical with
nutrient and critters who eat algaes. the end with the old daylight bulb
grows hair algae, (yea i know been gonna change that bulb for a while, just
never seam to have time.........) and the end with the new 50/50 doesn't.
its like the hair algae has a fense that it cant cross at mid point in the
tank, not a speck on one end and the other end has quite a bit.

that leads me to the presumption that lighting is the primary cause of
unwanted hair algae.

kc

[CapFusion]

> that leads me to the presumption that lighting is the primary cause of
> unwanted hair algae.
>

I would say lighting and the feeding.
Food introduce extra nutrient and light encourage it.

CapFusion,...

[Dragon Slayer]

i dont feed my rock tank, and its heavily skimmed so i dont think its a
supply of excess nutrient.

i think you may remember my 75 prior to upgrading from 110w pc (the 18 month
old bulbs) to the 800w mh's. i heavily overfeed that tank, and the hair
algae died off compleatly (with the help of a large cleanup crew) and never
returned after the upgrade in lighting.

kc

"CapFusion" > wrote in message
...
> > that leads me to the presumption that lighting is the primary cause of
> > unwanted hair algae.
> >
>
> I would say lighting and the feeding.
> Food introduce extra nutrient and light encourage it.
>
> CapFusion,...
>
>

[Rod]

I think it was Sprung and Delbeek that described the lighting/nutrient/algae
problems perfectly..

think of your stereo..
nutrients = power button
lighting = volume button
algae=sound
if the power button is off (no nutrients) you can crank the volume (lighting)
as high as you like, but there will be no sound(algae).
If you turn on the power button (add nutrients) and crank the volume
(lighting) the sound is very loud (lots of algae)
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[CapFusion]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...


> i dont feed my rock tank, and its heavily skimmed so i dont think its a
> supply of excess nutrient.

You don't feed your tank but still get algae? Humm.... I assumed your light
is good. Meaning your light bulb spectrum have not shift.... Are you using
RO[DI] or from other sources and or from your main tank?

Since above mention, I am not sure how either by increase of nutrient or
promote it
growth. Is your resident have alot of spore that may fall into your tank? Do
you have some die-off stuff from the Rock or from something?


>
> i think you may remember my 75 prior to upgrading from 110w pc (the 18
month
> old bulbs) to the 800w mh's. i heavily overfeed that tank, and the hair
> algae died off compleatly (with the help of a large cleanup crew) and
never
> returned after the upgrade in lighting.
>

Then you got me. I have no glue why you have algae.

CapFusion,...

[Dragon Slayer]

as mentioned Cap I think its the 18 month old bulb that has as you said
shifted spectrum. that was my original point, with all else equal the
lighting causes the algae growth.

kc


"CapFusion" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> > i dont feed my rock tank, and its heavily skimmed so i dont think its a
> > supply of excess nutrient.
>
> You don't feed your tank but still get algae? Humm.... I assumed your
light
> is good. Meaning your light bulb spectrum have not shift.... Are you using
> RO[DI] or from other sources and or from your main tank?
>
> Since above mention, I am not sure how either by increase of nutrient or
> promote it
> growth. Is your resident have alot of spore that may fall into your tank?
Do
> you have some die-off stuff from the Rock or from something?
>
>
> >
> > i think you may remember my 75 prior to upgrading from 110w pc (the 18
> month
> > old bulbs) to the 800w mh's. i heavily overfeed that tank, and the hair
> > algae died off compleatly (with the help of a large cleanup crew) and
> never
> > returned after the upgrade in lighting.
> >
>
> Then you got me. I have no glue why you have algae.
>
> CapFusion,...
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

"Rod" > wrote in message
...
> I think it was Sprung and Delbeek that described the
lighting/nutrient/algae
> problems perfectly..
>
> think of your stereo..
> nutrients = power button
> lighting = volume button
> algae=sound
> if the power button is off (no nutrients) you can crank the volume
(lighting)
> as high as you like, but there will be no sound(algae).
> If you turn on the power button (add nutrients) and crank the volume
> (lighting) the sound is very loud (lots of algae)
> Rod Buehler
> www.asplashoflife.com

yea but my 75 has high nutrient levels (power button is on and got lots of
voltage flowing) it has 800w of MH (thats about a 20 on a 1-10 scale for
volume) and the algea is nowhere to be seen...............humm, did i blow a
speaker?????


kc

[Rod]

>yea but my 75 has high nutrient levels (power button is on and got lots of
>voltage flowing) it has 800w of MH (thats about a 20 on a 1-10 scale for
>volume) and the algea is nowhere to be seen...............humm, did i blow a
>speaker?????

Heheh... High nutrents and lots of light and no algae?? Not the norm... Lucky
you ;)..
Good herbivores=blown speaker??
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[CapFusion]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> as mentioned Cap I think its the 18 month old bulb that has as you said
> shifted spectrum. that was my original point, with all else equal the
> lighting causes the algae growth.
>
> kc
>
After you have change your new light bulb, it would still promote algae but
not as much when compare to your old bulb. The nutrient should still be in
there by your janitoral crew that consume it. Heavy skimming from PS should
eventually clean out most of it.

Humm..... 18month bulb? Wow. I use it in the garage for the rest of the bulb
life.

CapFusion,...

[CapFusion]

Do you have alot high current and very efficient PS? If yes, then this maybe
the answer.

CapFusion,...

>
> yea but my 75 has high nutrient levels (power button is on and got lots of
> voltage flowing) it has 800w of MH (thats about a 20 on a 1-10 scale for
> volume) and the algea is nowhere to be seen...............humm, did i blow
a
> speaker?????
>
>
> kc
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

Of course I have high current (2500gph in a 75) and a great skimmer after it
decided to work (urchin pro w/ mag 3).

when the tank had the 110w of PC lighting with the old bulbs it was quite
over run with hair algae. it had plenty of herbivores in it but they didn't
eat enough to keep it out. I spent many hours pulling out huge globs of hair
algae but it always grew back. when I decided to make it into a reef rather
then a FO I ordered sal****erfish.com's "Monster Reef Package" for a clean
up crew (200 blue legged hermits, 100 scarlet reef hermits, 100 astera turbo
snails) and added ALL of them to the tank. they wiped out about 3/4 of the
algae in about 10 days, so I moved a good 3/4 of them to other tanks. when
I got the 2x400w MH's and installed them I figured the algae was going to
take off, but it didn't, it actually started to die back, that again (at
least to me) proved lighting has a major impact on hair algae's ability to
live.

the tank has been empty of fish and corals for almost 6 weeks now (only 5
hermits and 2 turbo's) and the hair algae is still nowhere to be seen. I
just this week introduced the first of my new occupants to the now "75
gallon w/ 800w MH light Predator Tank" (isn't that enough to make an SPS
guy cry?) a Huma Picasso Trigger. for those of you who own/owned triggers
you know how messy of an eater they are...........so now I get to see how
hard I can push the power button into the ON position (lots of nutrients in
the water with his eating habits) with the volume cranked to max (all 800w
have been shining 12hrs/day from the day they were
installed).............hope it doesn't wake the neighbors (she can be a bit
of a pita when disturbed....)


till next time
kc






"CapFusion" > wrote in message
...
> Do you have alot high current and very efficient PS? If yes, then this
maybe
> the answer.
>
> CapFusion,...
>
> >
> > yea but my 75 has high nutrient levels (power button is on and got lots
of
> > voltage flowing) it has 800w of MH (thats about a 20 on a 1-10 scale for
> > volume) and the algea is nowhere to be seen...............humm, did i
blow
> a
> > speaker?????
> >
> >
> > kc
> >
> >
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

I think the part your not seeing is the fact that the tank (a 55) we are
talking about has 2 lights in a 48" 2x65w PC All-Glass canopy. one bulb is
a new 50/50 that came out of the new light i added to my 29's fuge (the old
bulb gives better macro growth) and the other bulb is the original
"Daylight" bulb that came with the canopy and its 18+ months old and been
buring at 12 hrs/day from day one. the side of the tank with the new bulb
does NOT grow hair algae and the side with the old bulb DOES...........i
have a Mag 12 running closed loop so i think its safe to say the water
quality is exactly the same in all parts of the tank (looks a lot like a
hurricain in there).

could be that my hair algae hasn't read all the right books yet. :)

kc

[Rod]

>.so now I get to see how
>hard I can push the power button into the ON position (lots of nutrients in
>the water with his eating habits) with the volume cranked to max (all 800w
>have been shining 12hrs/day from the day they were
>installed).............hope it doesn't wake the neighbors (she can be a bit
>of a pita when disturbed....)

LOL!
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[Marco Qualizza]

In article >, "Dragon Slayer" <koi_man
> says...
>
> "Rod" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think it was Sprung and Delbeek that described the
> lighting/nutrient/algae
> > problems perfectly..
> >
> > think of your stereo..
> > nutrients = power button
> > lighting = volume button
> > algae=sound
> > if the power button is off (no nutrients) you can crank the volume
> (lighting)
> > as high as you like, but there will be no sound(algae).
> > If you turn on the power button (add nutrients) and crank the volume
> > (lighting) the sound is very loud (lots of algae)
> > Rod Buehler
> > www.asplashoflife.com
>
> yea but my 75 has high nutrient levels (power button is on and got lots of
> voltage flowing) it has 800w of MH (thats about a 20 on a 1-10 scale for
> volume) and the algea is nowhere to be seen...............humm, did i blow a
> speaker?????

I know it's a few days late, but I'll suggest that you don't have your
"volume" on, KC... Remember, *light* is not enough. Your light needs
to be in the proper spectrum. Now, please don't blow my argument by
saying that your MHs are 6700K (6200K?)... (plants need red... 10kK+
bulbs are no good for plants...)

--
7y FW -- 33g & 55g
100 gallon reef-ready air tank. (Converting to reef)

[Dragon Slayer]

i think you may have missed the whole argument on my side of view.

i stated i have 20KK bulbs in this tank. i also stated that in a different
tank i have 2 different bulbs of different K values and use time and the old
bulb causes hair algae and the new one does NOT. that was my entire idea i
was trying to get across that LIGHT is a major factor in GHA.

someone suggested regardless of light (K or other wise) that if i had all
factors id get hair algae.

and as posted IMO 800w of MH over a 75 gallon tank is about a 20 on the
volume scale of 1 to 10

kc

[Marco Qualizza]

In article >, "Dragon Slayer" <koi_man
> says...
> i think you may have missed the whole argument on my side of view.

Actually, I think that I'm trying to argue the same thing, but from a
different perspective... :-)

>
> i stated i have 20KK bulbs in this tank. i also stated that in a different
> tank i have 2 different bulbs of different K values and use time and the old
> bulb causes hair algae and the new one does NOT. that was my entire idea i
> was trying to get across that LIGHT is a major factor in GHA.

*nod* Which is what I was basing my spectrum thing on... I was thinking
that the older bulb would have shifted more towards the red... towards a
better spectrum for growing plants. The mistake I made was believing
that both bulbs had started out at the same K value (and wattage)...
So, from that, my argument was: "The *amount* of light isn't as
important as the spectrum that the light is in, as evidenced by the fact
that your new bulb, although as bright, isn't encouraging algae"...
apparently, tho', I missed some of the details about the two bulbs... My
bad. :-)

>
> someone suggested regardless of light (K or other wise) that if i had all
> factors id get hair algae.
>
> and as posted IMO 800w of MH over a 75 gallon tank is about a 20 on the
> volume scale of 1 to 10
>
> kc
>
>
>
>

--
7y FW -- 33g & 55g
100 gallon reef-ready air tank. (Converting to reef)