CROSSPOST: beta fish died - distilled water cause?

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http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets/browse_thread/thread/3315578af4671c98/f0bed9772887f478?hl=en#f0bed9772887f478
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/betafish?

Had trouble finding a group with traffic to post this to.
Here's the original text:

---


My g/f got a beta fish("Dragon") about a week ago. For the first week
he was particularly healthy looking and unusually active for a beta
fish. Here's an excerpt from an e-mail I just got: (enjoy her writing
;-)

"Well, get this.....Dragon died. He was fine and healthy right before
I changed his water on Sat. He was even eating like a horse. Then
after I put him back in his bowl, he wasn't the same. I didn't hurt
him in the process, but it was like, he never adjusted to the water or
something. Are you sure distilled water is safe for fish? Pretty
soon, he started molting...or what looked like molting. Do fish molt?
Then he wouldn't eat for the last couple of days and he was swimming
pretty slow. It was almost like he was going blind. Then this morning
when I checked up on him, he wasn't moving and his back was pretty bad,
like his skin was ripping off and his back fins were all black. I
picked up his bowl and shook it to see if he would move and he didn't."

The water in question was "distilled" bottled water bought by the
gallon at wal-mart. Is this what did him in? if not what else could it
have been? Her apt. is also kind of dark, is it possible lack of
sunlight killed him?

thanks for replys,
~Raven

[Andy Hill]

wrote:
>My g/f got a beta fish("Dragon") about a week ago. For the first week
>he was particularly healthy looking and unusually active for a beta
>fish. Here's an excerpt from an e-mail I just got: (enjoy her writing
>;-)
>
>"Well, get this.....Dragon died. He was fine and healthy right before
>I changed his water on Sat. He was even eating like a horse. Then
>after I put him back in his bowl, he wasn't the same. I didn't hurt
>him in the process, but it was like, he never adjusted to the water or
>something. Are you sure distilled water is safe for fish? Pretty
>soon, he started molting...or what looked like molting. Do fish molt?
>Then he wouldn't eat for the last couple of days and he was swimming
>pretty slow. It was almost like he was going blind. Then this morning
>when I checked up on him, he wasn't moving and his back was pretty bad,
>like his skin was ripping off and his back fins were all black. I
>picked up his bowl and shook it to see if he would move and he didn't."
>
>The water in question was "distilled" bottled water bought by the
>gallon at wal-mart. Is this what did him in? if not what else could it
>have been? Her apt. is also kind of dark, is it possible lack of
>sunlight killed him?
>
>thanks for replys,
>~Raven
>
100% distilled water is *very* bad for fish -- it has no pH buffers at all,
which pretty much guarantees a wild swing to the acid side once the fish starts
excreting. Also, 100% water changes (which sort of sounds like what occurred)
tend to be A Bad Thing.

The symptoms sounds an awful lot like ammonia burn -- first the slime coat
sloughed (the molting), then the skin began to burn. Gah...

[Elaine T]

wrote:
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets/browse_thread/thread/3315578af4671c98/f0bed9772887f478?hl=en#f0bed9772887f478
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/betafish?
>
> Had trouble finding a group with traffic to post this to.
> Here's the original text:
>
> ---
>
>
> My g/f got a beta fish("Dragon") about a week ago. For the first week
> he was particularly healthy looking and unusually active for a beta
> fish. Here's an excerpt from an e-mail I just got: (enjoy her writing
> ;-)
>
> "Well, get this.....Dragon died. He was fine and healthy right before
> I changed his water on Sat. He was even eating like a horse. Then
> after I put him back in his bowl, he wasn't the same. I didn't hurt
> him in the process, but it was like, he never adjusted to the water or
> something. Are you sure distilled water is safe for fish? Pretty
> soon, he started molting...or what looked like molting. Do fish molt?
> Then he wouldn't eat for the last couple of days and he was swimming
> pretty slow. It was almost like he was going blind. Then this morning
> when I checked up on him, he wasn't moving and his back was pretty bad,
> like his skin was ripping off and his back fins were all black. I
> picked up his bowl and shook it to see if he would move and he didn't."
>
> The water in question was "distilled" bottled water bought by the
> gallon at wal-mart. Is this what did him in? if not what else could it
> have been? Her apt. is also kind of dark, is it possible lack of
> sunlight killed him?
>
> thanks for replys,
> ~Raven
>
Fish do not moult. Your fish was most likely suffering from a
combination of ammonia poisoning and osmotic shock from being suddenly
switched to distilled water. Sudden changes to very soft water are hard
on fish and can permanently damage their gills. Fish need to be
acclimated to new water conditions, over hours for small changes and
over days for large ones. Distilled water also doesn't hold the pH
steady, so you could have had a big pH shift that stressed the fish more
or made the ammonia in his bowl more toxic. Keep your next fish in tap
water (treated to remove chlorine or chloramine) and you'll avoid a lot
of problems.

I suspect your bowl was not heated either. Bettas are tropical and need
to be at least 72F and 78F-82F is better. They appreciate stable
temperatures rather than a shift between night and day.

Fish constantly excrete ammonia as a waste product, and this ammonia is
quite toxic - your betta probably also had ammonia poisoning.
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html explains the nitrogen cycle
and filters. Air-driven sponge filters or undergravel filters work
great for small tanks and fishbowls. While a small tank cycles, you
have to change a lot of water to keep the ammonia nearly unmeasurable on
the test kit you're going to buy. ;-)

Many people here who have single bettas as pets do not keep bettas in
bowls or jars at all, but rather in a filtered tank with a heater. I
personally use a minimum of 2 gallons for a pet betta but some folks
even say 10 gallons should be a minimum for the fish to behave naturally
and have room to swim. I have one betta in a 15 gallon community tank
and that fish has the nicest fins of all my bettas, so maybe they're right.

Finally, lack of sunlight does not kill fish. They're fine under normal
household lighting conditions.

HTH, and better luck with your next fish.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Tynk]

wrote:
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets/browse_thread/thread/3315578af4671c98/f0bed9772887f478?hl=en#f0bed9772887f478
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/betafish?
>
> Had trouble finding a group with traffic to post this to.
> Here's the original text:
>
> ---
>
>
> My g/f got a beta fish("Dragon") about a week ago. For the first week
> he was particularly healthy looking and unusually active for a beta
> fish. Here's an excerpt from an e-mail I just got: (enjoy her writing
> ;-)
>
> "Well, get this.....Dragon died. He was fine and healthy right before
> I changed his water on Sat. He was even eating like a horse. Then
> after I put him back in his bowl, he wasn't the same. I didn't hurt
> him in the process, but it was like, he never adjusted to the water or
> something. Are you sure distilled water is safe for fish? Pretty
> soon, he started molting...or what looked like molting. Do fish molt?
> Then he wouldn't eat for the last couple of days and he was swimming
> pretty slow. It was almost like he was going blind. Then this morning
> when I checked up on him, he wasn't moving and his back was pretty bad,
> like his skin was ripping off and his back fins were all black. I
> picked up his bowl and shook it to see if he would move and he didn't."
>
> The water in question was "distilled" bottled water bought by the
> gallon at wal-mart. Is this what did him in? if not what else could it
> have been? Her apt. is also kind of dark, is it possible lack of
> sunlight killed him?
>
> thanks for replys,
> ~Raven

Hi Raven.
Your Betta (it's "bet-uh" not "bait-uh") shouldn't be in distilled
water.
Using that for fish, any fish for that matter is dangerous.
Basically, it's too clean. Hard to believe water can be too pure for a
fish, but it can when it lacks the needed minerals, etc that the fish
needs.
Fish don't molt, so I am assuming your poor fish had an excessive
amount of his slime coat.
His slime coat is his protection from injury, parasites and disease.
When a fish has a ton of excess slime something is majorly wrong.
Your fish was most likely tossed into shock when it was changed to
distilled.
If you want to keep a Betta, the perfect tank for them is the Eclipse
system three (3g tank). It's perfect for Bettas. It has great
filtration (yes Bettas should have filtration just like any other fish.
Just because they can survive in filth doesn't mean they should or that
they enjoy it), fluorescent light (brings out their best colors), and
the moter of the filter heats the water nicely for them (Bettas should
be kept between 78-80*f.)
There is a ton of misinformation out there about Bettas in general and
what type of housing they prefer, etc.
Ever hear the one about a tiny mud puddle? LOL That's a good one. =
)~

[RavenSlay3r]

Ouch - Andy is probably exactly right - and it sounds *very*
painfull... :'-( I just figured the purest water would be best for
the fish and completely forgot about PH-balance issues..

Apparently she changed approx. 50% of the water for all interested...

I'd suggested getting a bigger bowl but was out voted in favor of the
cost-effective 'betta-starter kit' fish bowl... Even the guy at the
store said thats all they need as they "don't move around much",
(except for the we had b4 we killed him..) I didn't realize they prefer
filteration too.

Thanks for all the tips everyone! Hopefully we'll have better success
on the next try.

~raven

[Klane]

What fish do you have with your beta?

[RavenSlay3r]

It was just a single betta. This is her first pet-adventure since the
(more successful) 'becoming-independent' adventure a while back.

[Elaine T]

Klane wrote:
> What fish do you have with your beta?
>
Besides the betta, my 15 gallon community tank has
4 Espei rasboras - my fifth suicided by jumping out of a tiny hole a few
days ago :-(
1 SAE
1 pygmy chained loach
2 young male fancy guppies (tails are still on the short side)
2 otocinclus
2 Amano shrimp

I chose the least aggressive betta of the three I have for the tank. He
didn't bother to flare much when put near other bettas and has never
flared at any other species of fish. Oddly enough, he's a crowntail,
which are supposed to be more aggressive.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com