Do you feel for your fish?

[coolchinchilla]

I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
-- much as for a cat or a dog.

I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of
plecos but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe
30 plecos in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an
inch or so of water depth available for hours. Needless to say,
when he finally put them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the
shippers made a mistake, but the fish guy sure didn't give them the
best chance to live. I expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too
bad that they died. I'm so sorry." The fish guy's response was
quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens all the time. It's no big deal.
I'll contact the shipper and get a refund." (!) He sounded as if
he received some light bulbs which broke during shipment.

Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
just merchandise to sell.

coolchinchilla

[Dan White]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
> the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
> just merchandise to sell.
>
> coolchinchilla

Some of these places do all the wrong things for their chinchillas, too.

dwhite

[Mr. Zee]

I feel the same way as you do, and really couldn't work in a pet store
like that. It's really hard to lose a fish, they ARE living creatures. The
older I get (I'm 52) the harder it is to see death and hurt, in any aspect
of life. I thought it was supposed to get easier... Anyway I don't mean to
run on. (And I AM a meat eater!!) The best we can do is take care of what
we have.

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
>I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life --
>much as for a cat or a dog.
>
> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of plecos but
> the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe 30 plecos in a
> bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an inch or so of water
> depth available for hours. Needless to say, when he finally put them in a
> tank they were all dead. Maybe the shippers made a mistake, but the fish
> guy sure didn't give them the best chance to live. I expressed
> adness -- "oh that is really too bad that they died. I'm so sorry." The
> fish guy's response was quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens all the time.
> It's no big deal. I'll contact the shipper and get a refund." (!) He
> sounded as if he received some light bulbs which broke during shipment.
>
> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted the
> fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not just
> merchandise to sell.
>
> coolchinchilla

[Daniel Morrow]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
...
> "coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> > respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
> > the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
> > just merchandise to sell.
> >
> > coolchinchilla
>
> Some of these places do all the wrong things for their chinchillas, too.
>
> dwhite
>
>

I agree with coolchinchilla. By the way - dan white, have you ever lived in
oregon? I knew of an upper classman while I was in public school and his
name was dan white? Coincidence? Are you a lurker, forum member, or troll,
or? Later all!

[Dick]

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:57:06 -0500, coolchinchilla
> wrote:

>I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
>-- much as for a cat or a dog.

I too worry over every sick or dead fish. When I have had to "put
down" a dog, I bring a fresh handkerchief. When the vet empties the
syringe and my pet's head drops I feel absolutely horrible and will
cry my eyes out. I can't even write this without tears coming.

It is hard to think about death or illness when getting a new pet.
When I got back into keeping fish 30 months ago, I gave no thought as
to how long fish live. I am 70 and feel fine, but when I learned that
some fish live to be 20, I was aghast! I think my statistical life
expectancy is about 15 years.

I have had a fish population at the max of about 130 fish (including
one fry drop of 50). After 30 months I have about 100. Most of the
deaths were in the first year. Last year I lost maybe 10 and this
year, so far, 3. The weak ones go first, I imagine. I bought 10
White Clouds and still have 10 white Clouds. Out of 10 Bleeding Heart
Tetras I still have 9. One Siamese Algae EAter out of 9 has died.
Most of my losses have been live bearers.

No matter how well you care for them, they will get sick and/or die.
I have accepted this, but still find it hard to find a dead or sick
fish. I have one old sword tail in the hospital tank. She has been
there for about 6 months. Her spine is twisted and she is largely
blind whereas her sister is in my 75 gallon community tank doing fine.
It is agonizing to watch the sick one struggling to find the food
flakes, but I can't bring myself to kill her. She is trying so
desperately to feed herself. Such "elan vital" is inspiring!

dick

[Gill Passman]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
> I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
> commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
> possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
> -- much as for a cat or a dog.
>
> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of
> plecos but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe
> 30 plecos in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an
> inch or so of water depth available for hours. Needless to say,
> when he finally put them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the
> shippers made a mistake, but the fish guy sure didn't give them the
> best chance to live. I expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too
> bad that they died. I'm so sorry." The fish guy's response was
> quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens all the time. It's no big deal.
> I'll contact the shipper and get a refund." (!) He sounded as if
> he received some light bulbs which broke during shipment.
>
> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
> the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
> just merchandise to sell.
>
> coolchinchilla

An upsetting story :-(

Personally, I would not return to that shop to buy any fish. If this sort of
treatment went on in front of a customer I dread to think what condition the
rest of the fish might be in. Hopefully this was an exception - maybe it is
his wholesalers he needs to change....

Gill

[Ionizer]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
>I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life --
>much as for a cat or a dog.

I'm the same way exactly.

We have five cats, all rescued, and we treat each of them as sentient,
emotionally sensitive individuals. We speak to them in full sentences
always, and although I'm not convinced they've mastered the subtleties
of sarcasm and hyperbole, they are very attentive and seem to appreciate
it.

I rescue spiders. Occasionally (once a month or so- it's not like we're
infested or anything) when I'm stepping into the shower in the morning,
one of these eight-legged guys will be in the tub, scrambling to get
out. I dutifully throw on my bathrobe, gently gather him up in a
tissue, take him outside and drop him into a bush. He's only got the
one life to live like the rest of us, he just happened to end up being a
spider, that's all.

Over my last three weekly visits, I badgered one of my customers about
the state of his 10-gallon goldfish tank. I think I was really starting
to annoy him, but he did nothing. The green water level was down to the
halfway point when I finally persuaded my customer's father to fix the
problem, and he did. The fish are fine now, but I'll keep an eye on
them.

Last summer, I intervened in a fight between two birds in our parking
lot at work. While I understand that falcons need to eat other small
birds, they aren't going to do it on my watch.

And I felt truly remorseful yesterday when I caused that little otto cat
of ours so much hurt. I woke up in the middle of the night stressing
about what I'd done and cringed about it several times during the day
today. I was relieved to find him okay this afternoon.

We have some good friends "up north" who regard animals not as sentient
beings but as livestock. One otherwise-sensitive buddy, when asked what
would happen if he didn't do something about a health predicament his
dog was having at the time- what if she dies? He answered,
straight-faced, "I'll just get another dog." He explained this point of
view with a shrug, saying "it's a DOG," as if that explained it. Folks
like him, and there are a great many, aren't stressed out about losing a
pet, or about some fish flopping around in a bag at the local pet store.
I generally think that it's otherwise-nice people like him, and the guy
at your local fish store, who don't "get it." They are missing out on
all the benefits of a mutual-respect relationship with the other
animals.

But then sometimes I wonder for a brief moment if people like us are the
ones who are just a bit ****ed up.

Regards,
Ian.

[Bill Stock]

"Ionizer" > wrote in message
...
> "coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>>commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>>possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life --
>>much as for a cat or a dog.
>
> I'm the same way exactly.
>
> We have five cats, all rescued, and we treat each of them as sentient,
> emotionally sensitive individuals. We speak to them in full sentences
> always, and although I'm not convinced they've mastered the subtleties of
> sarcasm and hyperbole, they are very attentive and seem to appreciate it.
>
> I rescue spiders. Occasionally (once a month or so- it's not like we're
> infested or anything) when I'm stepping into the shower in the morning,
> one of these eight-legged guys will be in the tub, scrambling to get out.
> I dutifully throw on my bathrobe, gently gather him up in a tissue, take
> him outside and drop him into a bush. He's only got the one life to live
> like the rest of us, he just happened to end up being a spider, that's
> all.
>
> Over my last three weekly visits, I badgered one of my customers about the
> state of his 10-gallon goldfish tank. I think I was really starting to
> annoy him, but he did nothing. The green water level was down to the
> halfway point when I finally persuaded my customer's father to fix the
> problem, and he did. The fish are fine now, but I'll keep an eye on them.
>
> Last summer, I intervened in a fight between two birds in our parking lot
> at work. While I understand that falcons need to eat other small birds,
> they aren't going to do it on my watch.
>
> And I felt truly remorseful yesterday when I caused that little otto cat
> of ours so much hurt. I woke up in the middle of the night stressing
> about what I'd done and cringed about it several times during the day
> today. I was relieved to find him okay this afternoon.
>
> We have some good friends "up north" who regard animals not as sentient
> beings but as livestock. One otherwise-sensitive buddy, when asked what
> would happen if he didn't do something about a health predicament his dog
> was having at the time- what if she dies? He answered, straight-faced,
> "I'll just get another dog." He explained this point of view with a
> shrug, saying "it's a DOG," as if that explained it. Folks like him, and
> there are a great many, aren't stressed out about losing a pet, or about
> some fish flopping around in a bag at the local pet store. I generally
> think that it's otherwise-nice people like him, and the guy at your local
> fish store, who don't "get it." They are missing out on all the benefits
> of a mutual-respect relationship with the other animals.
>
> But then sometimes I wonder for a brief moment if people like us are the
> ones who are just a bit ****ed up.
>
> Regards,
> Ian.

Very well said Ian.

I guess I'm somewhere between the "otherwise well meaning" people and your
point of view. Unfortunately there are also a lot worse out there, those who
want to shoot anything that moves.

I never saw myself getting into fish keeping when I was younger, as I had a
rural upbringing similar to your friend. It was only the pond that got me
interested in the fish. Then one day the Heron was munching on my boys, so
that batch of GF has been inside ever since. I must admit I'm probably more
into the fish keeping, than the fish. Although they certainly are
interesting creatures.

We've got a regular nature preserve here now, with the Cardinals who look in
the windows singing for their supper, the squirrels looking for their
peanuts and the various nocturnal visitors, Raccoons, Badgers, Rabbits,
Skunks and the occasional Possum. Oh, and the Cats too of course.

[Daniel Morrow]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:57:06 -0500, coolchinchilla
> > wrote:
>
> >I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
> >commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
> >possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
> >-- much as for a cat or a dog.
>
> I too worry over every sick or dead fish. When I have had to "put
> down" a dog, I bring a fresh handkerchief. When the vet empties the
> syringe and my pet's head drops I feel absolutely horrible and will
> cry my eyes out. I can't even write this without tears coming.

Me too. A few years ago I had to have my vet put down our dog sandy, my
voice cracked like a fragile chicken egg when I have to have the vet put
down pets, and I turn into a big old crybaby when that happens too. He was
lying on his side on the table in the vet's office and I held his paw during
all of this and when I saw he was asleep permanently I cried pretty hard.
But I also new that sandy no longer had any will to live judging by what he
had been trying to tell us over that period of time so I was happy in a way
to prevent him from suffering (if happy is the right word, hard to use as a
word for this as I was also incredibly sad), so things turned out o.k. in
the long run as sandy made it to the age of 16 before succumbing to death
and he didn't suffer, it was his time to go. He was a dashhound/fox terrier
mix and seemed like the perfect family dog. He loved going for walks and my
dad is a big time hiker and sandy got to live a rich live before passing
away what with all of the hiking, etc.. Sandy had cancer the last few years
of his life and did well for the last year considering he lost one leg to
cancer (at first it would only had been his foot but the vet said that the
whole leg would have to go so he wouldn't walk on the stump). Wonderful
animals, don't let death control you and keep pets but at the same time
prepare them for emergencies (like the owner passing away or just plain
accidents) and make sure they are always taken care of. We lost our cat
greyguy to cancer a year or two after sandy and greyguy made it to about 16
and 1/2. Our mammalian pets are all about the same age because we got them
at approximately the same time, and actually we only have blackie left as a
mammalian pet and she is 19 going strong. Good luck, and later!

[Peter in New Zealand]

Sniff! Just yesterday introduced four dear little white clouds to my tank. I
named them Eny, Meeny, Miny and Mo. This morning there were only three. I
searched the whole tank, and then finally found Mo lying on the carpet in
front of the tank. How he got out is a complete mystery to me - do they have
a tendency to jump? Even if they do the only time the tank was uncovered
after putting them in was when I fed them this morning. I will miss Mo. He
was a perky little fellow with lots of character, and besides, he cost me
$6.95!!! Sigh!

--
Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
compulsive computer fiddler.

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:57:06 -0500, coolchinchilla
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>> >commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>> >possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
>> >-- much as for a cat or a dog.
>>
>> I too worry over every sick or dead fish. When I have had to "put
>> down" a dog, I bring a fresh handkerchief. When the vet empties the
>> syringe and my pet's head drops I feel absolutely horrible and will
>> cry my eyes out. I can't even write this without tears coming.
>
> Me too. A few years ago I had to have my vet put down our dog sandy, my
> voice cracked like a fragile chicken egg when I have to have the vet put
> down pets, and I turn into a big old crybaby when that happens too. He was
> lying on his side on the table in the vet's office and I held his paw
> during
> all of this and when I saw he was asleep permanently I cried pretty hard.
> But I also new that sandy no longer had any will to live judging by what
> he
> had been trying to tell us over that period of time so I was happy in a
> way
> to prevent him from suffering (if happy is the right word, hard to use as
> a
> word for this as I was also incredibly sad), so things turned out o.k. in
> the long run as sandy made it to the age of 16 before succumbing to death
> and he didn't suffer, it was his time to go. He was a dashhound/fox
> terrier
> mix and seemed like the perfect family dog. He loved going for walks and
> my
> dad is a big time hiker and sandy got to live a rich live before passing
> away what with all of the hiking, etc.. Sandy had cancer the last few
> years
> of his life and did well for the last year considering he lost one leg to
> cancer (at first it would only had been his foot but the vet said that the
> whole leg would have to go so he wouldn't walk on the stump). Wonderful
> animals, don't let death control you and keep pets but at the same time
> prepare them for emergencies (like the owner passing away or just plain
> accidents) and make sure they are always taken care of. We lost our cat
> greyguy to cancer a year or two after sandy and greyguy made it to about
> 16
> and 1/2. Our mammalian pets are all about the same age because we got them
> at approximately the same time, and actually we only have blackie left as
> a
> mammalian pet and she is 19 going strong. Good luck, and later!
>
>

[Nikki Casali]

Peter in New Zealand wrote:
> Sniff! Just yesterday introduced four dear little white clouds to my tank. I
> named them Eny, Meeny, Miny and Mo. This morning there were only three. I
> searched the whole tank, and then finally found Mo lying on the carpet in
> front of the tank. How he got out is a complete mystery to me - do they have
> a tendency to jump? Even if they do the only time the tank was uncovered
> after putting them in was when I fed them this morning. I will miss Mo. He
> was a perky little fellow with lots of character, and besides, he cost me
> $6.95!!! Sigh!
>

I've had a fish jump out only once. It was one of the Ruby Sharks that
quarreled between each other. It must have jumped vertically upwards
through a tiny hole in the canopy to escape its siblings or, I think, it
got whacked by the tail of the Bala Shark and catapulted out. I found
him dry as a bone and stuck to the carpet. Just thinking of the struggle
he must have had...gasping. Thinking of the all the fish that get caught
for our consumption and dying in a similar fashion does not help. You
cannot rationalise grief away. To do that would be removing the very
part that separates us from machines. You cannot quantify the amount of
grief one should experience based on facts and figures. I hate that. My
relative dies and a friend consoles me by convincing ME that it's not a
tragedy because they lived to a ripe old age or ... they cost £1.99.

Maybe you can complete the group again, but this time: Eny, Meeny, Miny
and Mo Too.

Nikki

[NetMax]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
>I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life --
>much as for a cat or a dog.
>
> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of plecos
> but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe 30 plecos
> in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an inch or so of
> water depth available for hours. Needless to say, when he finally put
> them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the shippers made a mistake,
> but the fish guy sure didn't give them the best chance to live. I
> expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too bad that they died. I'm so
> sorry." The fish guy's response was quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens
> all the time. It's no big deal. I'll contact the shipper and get a
> refund." (!) He sounded as if he received some light bulbs which broke
> during shipment.
>
> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted the
> fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not just
> merchandise to sell.
>
> coolchinchilla

The clerk's cavalier response was unfortunately truthful, but his
attitude leaves a lot to be desired. I have mixed feelings about the
couple of years I worked in fish retail. The level of death & disease
was depressing and would desensitize you if you let it. I tried to stay
unemotional and pragmatic about it. I was only personally affected if I
could not say that I did everything which could reasonably have been
done.

To further qualify this question, I don't feel the same way about losing
a Neon tetra as I do about an adult Oscar. Also I don't get 'attached'
to new livestock for at least 3 days. I take responsibility to provide
the proper care from the moment I receive them, but the first 3 days are
not entirely under my control due to the conditions they came from,
diseases, transport shock etc. It's only after 3 days that I *feel*
responsible for them (if that makes any sense).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Daniel Morrow]

"Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
...
> Sniff! Just yesterday introduced four dear little white clouds to my tank.
I
> named them Eny, Meeny, Miny and Mo. This morning there were only three. I
> searched the whole tank, and then finally found Mo lying on the carpet in
> front of the tank. How he got out is a complete mystery to me - do they
have
> a tendency to jump? Even if they do the only time the tank was uncovered
> after putting them in was when I fed them this morning. I will miss Mo. He
> was a perky little fellow with lots of character, and besides, he cost me
> $6.95!!! Sigh!

That's pretty expensive for a white cloud. I would expect them to cost just
a $1.00, maybe there is a difference in currency that makes the difference
between our two locations?


>
> --
> Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
> Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
> compulsive computer fiddler.
>
> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Dick" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:57:06 -0500, coolchinchilla
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
> >> >commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
> >> >possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
> >> >-- much as for a cat or a dog.
> >>
> >> I too worry over every sick or dead fish. When I have had to "put
> >> down" a dog, I bring a fresh handkerchief. When the vet empties the
> >> syringe and my pet's head drops I feel absolutely horrible and will
> >> cry my eyes out. I can't even write this without tears coming.
> >
> > Me too. A few years ago I had to have my vet put down our dog sandy, my
> > voice cracked like a fragile chicken egg when I have to have the vet put
> > down pets, and I turn into a big old crybaby when that happens too. He
was
> > lying on his side on the table in the vet's office and I held his paw
> > during
> > all of this and when I saw he was asleep permanently I cried pretty
hard.
> > But I also new that sandy no longer had any will to live judging by what
> > he
> > had been trying to tell us over that period of time so I was happy in a
> > way
> > to prevent him from suffering (if happy is the right word, hard to use
as
> > a
> > word for this as I was also incredibly sad), so things turned out o.k.
in
> > the long run as sandy made it to the age of 16 before succumbing to
death
> > and he didn't suffer, it was his time to go. He was a dashhound/fox
> > terrier
> > mix and seemed like the perfect family dog. He loved going for walks and
> > my
> > dad is a big time hiker and sandy got to live a rich live before passing
> > away what with all of the hiking, etc.. Sandy had cancer the last few
> > years
> > of his life and did well for the last year considering he lost one leg
to
> > cancer (at first it would only had been his foot but the vet said that
the
> > whole leg would have to go so he wouldn't walk on the stump). Wonderful
> > animals, don't let death control you and keep pets but at the same time
> > prepare them for emergencies (like the owner passing away or just plain
> > accidents) and make sure they are always taken care of. We lost our cat
> > greyguy to cancer a year or two after sandy and greyguy made it to about
> > 16
> > and 1/2. Our mammalian pets are all about the same age because we got
them
> > at approximately the same time, and actually we only have blackie left
as
> > a
> > mammalian pet and she is 19 going strong. Good luck, and later!
> >
> >
>
>

[coolchinchilla]

Peter in New Zealand wrote:
> Sniff! Just yesterday introduced four dear little white clouds to my tank. I
> named them Eny, Meeny, Miny and Mo. This morning there were only three. I
> searched the whole tank, and then finally found Mo lying on the carpet in
> front of the tank. How he got out is a complete mystery to me - do they have
> a tendency to jump? Even if they do the only time the tank was uncovered
> after putting them in was when I fed them this morning. I will miss Mo. He
> was a perky little fellow with lots of character, and besides, he cost me
> $6.95!!! Sigh!

I'm so sorry about your little fish.
Be gentle with yourself.
coolchinchilla

[Peter in New Zealand]

If you're in the USA the NZ$ is worth about 70 to 72 cents at the moment. It
did seem a bit much for white clouds even so, although the shop where I
bought them is a place with lots of variety and stock, and the people really
seem to know what they are talking about, so I guess you get what you pay
for. I might try another place when I go shopping for the "Son of Mo."

Thanks to all the sympathetic responders.
--
Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
compulsive computer fiddler.


"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter in New Zealand" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Sniff! Just yesterday introduced four dear little white clouds to my
>> tank.
> I
>> named them Eny, Meeny, Miny and Mo. This morning there were only three. I
>> searched the whole tank, and then finally found Mo lying on the carpet in
>> front of the tank. How he got out is a complete mystery to me - do they
> have
>> a tendency to jump? Even if they do the only time the tank was uncovered
>> after putting them in was when I fed them this morning. I will miss Mo.
>> He
>> was a perky little fellow with lots of character, and besides, he cost me
>> $6.95!!! Sigh!
>
> That's pretty expensive for a white cloud. I would expect them to cost
> just
> a $1.00, maybe there is a difference in currency that makes the difference
> between our two locations?
>
>
>>
>> --
>> Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
>> Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
>> compulsive computer fiddler.
>>
>> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Dick" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:57:06 -0500, coolchinchilla
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>> >> >commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>> >> >possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
>> >> >-- much as for a cat or a dog.
>> >>
>> >> I too worry over every sick or dead fish. When I have had to "put
>> >> down" a dog, I bring a fresh handkerchief. When the vet empties the
>> >> syringe and my pet's head drops I feel absolutely horrible and will
>> >> cry my eyes out. I can't even write this without tears coming.
>> >
>> > Me too. A few years ago I had to have my vet put down our dog sandy, my
>> > voice cracked like a fragile chicken egg when I have to have the vet
>> > put
>> > down pets, and I turn into a big old crybaby when that happens too. He
> was
>> > lying on his side on the table in the vet's office and I held his paw
>> > during
>> > all of this and when I saw he was asleep permanently I cried pretty
> hard.
>> > But I also new that sandy no longer had any will to live judging by
>> > what
>> > he
>> > had been trying to tell us over that period of time so I was happy in a
>> > way
>> > to prevent him from suffering (if happy is the right word, hard to use
> as
>> > a
>> > word for this as I was also incredibly sad), so things turned out o.k.
> in
>> > the long run as sandy made it to the age of 16 before succumbing to
> death
>> > and he didn't suffer, it was his time to go. He was a dashhound/fox
>> > terrier
>> > mix and seemed like the perfect family dog. He loved going for walks
>> > and
>> > my
>> > dad is a big time hiker and sandy got to live a rich live before
>> > passing
>> > away what with all of the hiking, etc.. Sandy had cancer the last few
>> > years
>> > of his life and did well for the last year considering he lost one leg
> to
>> > cancer (at first it would only had been his foot but the vet said that
> the
>> > whole leg would have to go so he wouldn't walk on the stump). Wonderful
>> > animals, don't let death control you and keep pets but at the same time
>> > prepare them for emergencies (like the owner passing away or just plain
>> > accidents) and make sure they are always taken care of. We lost our cat
>> > greyguy to cancer a year or two after sandy and greyguy made it to
>> > about
>> > 16
>> > and 1/2. Our mammalian pets are all about the same age because we got
> them
>> > at approximately the same time, and actually we only have blackie left
> as
>> > a
>> > mammalian pet and she is 19 going strong. Good luck, and later!
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[Dan White]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dan White" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> > > respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
> > > the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
> > > just merchandise to sell.
> > >
> > > coolchinchilla
> >
> > Some of these places do all the wrong things for their chinchillas, too.
> >
> > dwhite
> >
> >
>
> I agree with coolchinchilla. By the way - dan white, have you ever lived
in
> oregon? I knew of an upper classman while I was in public school and his
> name was dan white? Coincidence? Are you a lurker, forum member, or troll,
> or? Later all!
>

lol. No, that's not me. I'm on the other side of the country. I have been
to Oregon, but that's about it. It is a beautiful state. I'm an occasional
poster and lurker to this group.

regards,
dwhite (the other one)

[Daniel Morrow]

> lol. No, that's not me. I'm on the other side of the country. I have
been
> to Oregon, but that's about it. It is a beautiful state. I'm an
occasional
> poster and lurker to this group.
>
> regards,
> dwhite (the other one)
>
>

Cool.

[Dick]

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:36:12 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
>>I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>>commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>>possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life --
>>much as for a cat or a dog.
>>
>> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of plecos
>> but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe 30 plecos
>> in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an inch or so of
>> water depth available for hours. Needless to say, when he finally put
>> them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the shippers made a mistake,
>> but the fish guy sure didn't give them the best chance to live. I
>> expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too bad that they died. I'm so
>> sorry." The fish guy's response was quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens
>> all the time. It's no big deal. I'll contact the shipper and get a
>> refund." (!) He sounded as if he received some light bulbs which broke
>> during shipment.
>>
>> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
>> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted the
>> fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not just
>> merchandise to sell.
>>
>> coolchinchilla
>
>The clerk's cavalier response was unfortunately truthful, but his
>attitude leaves a lot to be desired. I have mixed feelings about the
>couple of years I worked in fish retail. The level of death & disease
>was depressing and would desensitize you if you let it. I tried to stay
>unemotional and pragmatic about it. I was only personally affected if I
>could not say that I did everything which could reasonably have been
>done.
>
>To further qualify this question, I don't feel the same way about losing
>a Neon tetra as I do about an adult Oscar. Also I don't get 'attached'
>to new livestock for at least 3 days. I take responsibility to provide
>the proper care from the moment I receive them, but the first 3 days are
>not entirely under my control due to the conditions they came from,
>diseases, transport shock etc. It's only after 3 days that I *feel*
>responsible for them (if that makes any sense).

Netmax, I wouldn't suspect you of being so hard hearted! Three whole
days? <g>

When I first met my greyhound, Ruby, I had taken her for the afternoon
to see how she got along with my dalmatian. I was in my motorhome. I
decided to take a nap as I had driven 500 miles to Tucson, Az to the
closest place that "saved" racing Greyhounds. I laid down and Ruby
leaped up and laid her body up against mine. I didn't have a chance!
She has been with me over 8 years and will be 14 in August. I am glad
for every extra day I get. Her legs no longer obey her will and she
often struggles to get up, but it is great that she still wills
herself to get up even if it means listening to her bark at me to open
the back door or get her food.

The old Swordtail with a twisted spine finally died yesterday. I
missed her at the evening meal and so looked around and found her in
among the floating plants. She sure put up a battle to stay alive. I
will miss her. Just as with humans, problems seem to hit us all
uniquely. Her sister, bought from same vendor same time, were first
to occupy my 75 gallon tank 2 1/2 years ago.

dick

[Tynk]

<<<To further qualify this question, I don't feel the same way about
losing
a Neon tetra as I do about an adult Oscar. Also I don't get 'attached'

to new livestock for at least 3 days. >>>

This is how I am. Of course I get a bit sad when I lose something like
an Oto, Neon, etc. However, nothing near like when an Angelfish or
Betta, or something that is aware of you dies.
There's a bond there, nothing like between a keeper and a Swordtail, or
Guppy, basically fish that are unaware of what's going outside their
tank.
It's so hard when you lose a fish that has been with you for several
years and is more like a household dog or cat, than "just a fish".
I remeber when I lost this female siver standerd Angelfish. I had lost
her mate yrs before, but she survived years beyond him...and alone. She
never spawned with another male after his death. = (
Anyway, I had her for a little over 8 yrs. She was a tuff old bird, a
great mother to her fry, and always so happy to see me. She even
survived the Angelfish virus! That's how tuff she was.
I lost her yrs back to old age and I cried like a baby.
When I get new fish in in quarantine, I try my best to not make any
attachments to them.
I did say I try though, right.....
Like if I said that maybe just the other day I bought a DT, black with
lovely metallic teal, royal, and black lace coloring, 6 month old male
Betta that I possibly had high hopes for spawning my steel blue double
ray CT female, I'd probably be guilty of it.
But I'm not admitting anything. = )~

[Gill Passman]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
> I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
> commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
> possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
> -- much as for a cat or a dog.
>
> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of
> plecos but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe
> 30 plecos in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an
> inch or so of water depth available for hours. Needless to say,
> when he finally put them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the
> shippers made a mistake, but the fish guy sure didn't give them the
> best chance to live. I expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too
> bad that they died. I'm so sorry." The fish guy's response was
> quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens all the time. It's no big deal.
> I'll contact the shipper and get a refund." (!) He sounded as if
> he received some light bulbs which broke during shipment.
>
> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
> the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
> just merchandise to sell.
>
> coolchinchilla

Yes, I do feel for my fish....I hate any loss and try to understand what
happened and how I can avoid it in the future...but I'm sorry to say my
emotions are proportionate....

1. A fish I have just purchased might die...I've not had the opportunity to
get attached

2. Certain fish engage affection more than others.....do I get more upset
about a betta or cichlid than a tetra - probably

3. Do I hate fish dying when I know it something I have done wrong (even if
I don't know what).....very much it upsets me deeply

4. Will I be devasted when my fav fish die.....certainly

5. When my first rabbit died of Pneumonia after one of his numerous nights
out visiting the local does -quite a lad in fact and brilliant personality -
we were all heartbroken - he died in our arms

6. Was I devasted when my 13 year old cat had to be put down due to Kidney
failure - heartbroken

7. Was I devasted when my 13 year old black lab had to be put down because
he could no longer walk because of his hips - heartbroken - plus broke a
golden rule and had to have a drink even though I was pregnant at the time

8. How did I feel when my daughter at 10 months was taken into intensive
care because someone eventually realised if they didn't do that she was
about to die having not understood what was wrong with her.....hey, I don't
even need to go there....BTW she is now an incredibly fit four year old

9. 2 years ago my eight year old step niece died of a brain tumour - all
she could do was mouth "I love you"

10. A friend of mine was diagnosed with breast cancer 3 years ago....it has
spread...she is counting the months she has 3 young children

11. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 20 months ago and treated....I ain't
half hoping I'm luckier than my friend

Yep, I hope most of us all care but a lot of events can harden
people.....some of us will always care and I hope I can count myself among
them but we also need to understand that occasionally people reach the end
of the line....

BTW I haven't yet - I still care about everything.

Best Wishes
Gill

[Elaine T]

coolchinchilla wrote:
> I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
> commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
> possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life --
> much as for a cat or a dog.
>
> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of plecos
> but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe 30 plecos
> in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an inch or so of
> water depth available for hours. Needless to say, when he finally put
> them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the shippers made a mistake,
> but the fish guy sure didn't give them the best chance to live. I
> expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too bad that they died. I'm so
> sorry." The fish guy's response was quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens
> all the time. It's no big deal. I'll contact the shipper and get a
> refund." (!) He sounded as if he received some light bulbs which broke
> during shipment.
>
> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted the
> fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not just
> merchandise to sell.
>
> coolchinchilla

You might have seen my post today about a discus given to me as a gift.
My tank is too small to house the fish long-term and is not really set
up for discus. I'm very afraid he will die, as I've sometimes lost
discus even under what I thought were ideal conditions.

I actually had bad dreams about this fish last night. So yes, I feel
for my fish.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Dick]

On 20 Jun 2005 10:32:23 -0700, "Tynk" > wrote:

><<<To further qualify this question, I don't feel the same way about
>losing
>a Neon tetra as I do about an adult Oscar. Also I don't get 'attached'
>
>to new livestock for at least 3 days. >>>
>
>This is how I am. Of course I get a bit sad when I lose something like
>an Oto, Neon, etc. However, nothing near like when an Angelfish or
>Betta, or something that is aware of you dies.
>There's a bond there, nothing like between a keeper and a Swordtail, or
>Guppy, basically fish that are unaware of what's going outside their
>tank.
>It's so hard when you lose a fish that has been with you for several
>years and is more like a household dog or cat, than "just a fish".
>I remeber when I lost this female siver standerd Angelfish. I had lost
>her mate yrs before, but she survived years beyond him...and alone. She
>never spawned with another male after his death. = (
>Anyway, I had her for a little over 8 yrs. She was a tuff old bird, a
>great mother to her fry, and always so happy to see me. She even
>survived the Angelfish virus! That's how tuff she was.
>I lost her yrs back to old age and I cried like a baby.
>When I get new fish in in quarantine, I try my best to not make any
>attachments to them.
>I did say I try though, right.....
>Like if I said that maybe just the other day I bought a DT, black with
>lovely metallic teal, royal, and black lace coloring, 6 month old male
>Betta that I possibly had high hopes for spawning my steel blue double
>ray CT female, I'd probably be guilty of it.
>But I'm not admitting anything. = )~


I find little things bring attachments. I have one small male platy
that was born in my 75 gallon community tank, that I chased for 2 days
to remove and he escaped, now is special. One Black Angelfish that
expects me to drop food over her is special. Out of 10 Bleeding Heart
Tetras, one has a split top fin with different coloring I call
"indian" even sickness as with the recently passed female swordtail
that lived with a bent back bone, all of these made them special and I
look to see them first each morninng. Out of 3 Blue Ghoramis, one
male is special and I don't know why, perhaps because he has a corner
near where I sit to do exercises and he "stares" at me.

I wonder if other people mark me as special and I don't know it? A
neighbor died this year at age 64. I visited her to see how she was
doing and she remarked a couple of times how Dan had said he liked me.
I had no idea. Another time a boy told me I had told him something or
other and it meant so much to him. I had no recollection of what I
said. Then there was the flurry of posts when I said something that
suggested I was ill, what a surprise that was.

I wonder if the fish we don't notice, notice they are not special?

dick

[Dick]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:42:48 +0100, "Gill Passman"
<gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
>> I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>> commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>> possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
>> -- much as for a cat or a dog.
>>
>> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of
>> plecos but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe
>> 30 plecos in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an
>> inch or so of water depth available for hours. Needless to say,
>> when he finally put them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the
>> shippers made a mistake, but the fish guy sure didn't give them the
>> best chance to live. I expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too
>> bad that they died. I'm so sorry." The fish guy's response was
>> quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens all the time. It's no big deal.
>> I'll contact the shipper and get a refund." (!) He sounded as if
>> he received some light bulbs which broke during shipment.
>>
>> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
>> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
>> the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
>> just merchandise to sell.
>>
>> coolchinchilla
>
>Yes, I do feel for my fish....I hate any loss and try to understand what
>happened and how I can avoid it in the future...but I'm sorry to say my
>emotions are proportionate....
>
>1. A fish I have just purchased might die...I've not had the opportunity to
>get attached
>
>2. Certain fish engage affection more than others.....do I get more upset
>about a betta or cichlid than a tetra - probably
>
>3. Do I hate fish dying when I know it something I have done wrong (even if
>I don't know what).....very much it upsets me deeply
>
>4. Will I be devasted when my fav fish die.....certainly
>
>5. When my first rabbit died of Pneumonia after one of his numerous nights
>out visiting the local does -quite a lad in fact and brilliant personality -
>we were all heartbroken - he died in our arms
>
>6. Was I devasted when my 13 year old cat had to be put down due to Kidney
>failure - heartbroken
>
>7. Was I devasted when my 13 year old black lab had to be put down because
>he could no longer walk because of his hips - heartbroken - plus broke a
>golden rule and had to have a drink even though I was pregnant at the time
>
>8. How did I feel when my daughter at 10 months was taken into intensive
>care because someone eventually realised if they didn't do that she was
>about to die having not understood what was wrong with her.....hey, I don't
>even need to go there....BTW she is now an incredibly fit four year old
>
>9. 2 years ago my eight year old step niece died of a brain tumour - all
>she could do was mouth "I love you"
>
>10. A friend of mine was diagnosed with breast cancer 3 years ago....it has
>spread...she is counting the months she has 3 young children
>
>11. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 20 months ago and treated....I ain't
>half hoping I'm luckier than my friend
>
>Yep, I hope most of us all care but a lot of events can harden
>people.....some of us will always care and I hope I can count myself among
>them but we also need to understand that occasionally people reach the end
>of the line....
>
>BTW I haven't yet - I still care about everything.
>
>Best Wishes
>Gill
>
>
>
I wish I could feel for people as easily as I can for animals. I like
to "play" with my fish. I have 6 SAEs in my 75 gallon tank and it was
so much fun to have them gather around my hand and arm while working
the plants. Some would approach my fingers and I would point a finger
and they would scoot away, but immediately return. I would cup one
and it would escape only at the last minute. I am sad they no longer
play with my arm. My old female Greyhound and I have a game, I chase
her while clapping my hands and she scoots for her bed. Even at 14
with weak muscles she still likes the game.

I can't figure out how to play with people! :-(

dick

[Gill Passman]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:42:48 +0100, "Gill Passman"
> <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
> >> commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
> >> possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
> >> -- much as for a cat or a dog.
> >>
> >> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of
> >> plecos but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe
> >> 30 plecos in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an
> >> inch or so of water depth available for hours. Needless to say,
> >> when he finally put them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the
> >> shippers made a mistake, but the fish guy sure didn't give them the
> >> best chance to live. I expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too
> >> bad that they died. I'm so sorry." The fish guy's response was
> >> quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens all the time. It's no big deal.
> >> I'll contact the shipper and get a refund." (!) He sounded as if
> >> he received some light bulbs which broke during shipment.
> >>
> >> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> >> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
> >> the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
> >> just merchandise to sell.
> >>
> >> coolchinchilla
> >
> >Yes, I do feel for my fish....I hate any loss and try to understand what
> >happened and how I can avoid it in the future...but I'm sorry to say my
> >emotions are proportionate....
> >
> >1. A fish I have just purchased might die...I've not had the opportunity
to
> >get attached
> >
> >2. Certain fish engage affection more than others.....do I get more upset
> >about a betta or cichlid than a tetra - probably
> >
> >3. Do I hate fish dying when I know it something I have done wrong (even
if
> >I don't know what).....very much it upsets me deeply
> >
> >4. Will I be devasted when my fav fish die.....certainly
> >
> >5. When my first rabbit died of Pneumonia after one of his numerous
nights
> >out visiting the local does -quite a lad in fact and brilliant
personality -
> >we were all heartbroken - he died in our arms
> >
> >6. Was I devasted when my 13 year old cat had to be put down due to
Kidney
> >failure - heartbroken
> >
> >7. Was I devasted when my 13 year old black lab had to be put down
because
> >he could no longer walk because of his hips - heartbroken - plus broke a
> >golden rule and had to have a drink even though I was pregnant at the
time
> >
> >8. How did I feel when my daughter at 10 months was taken into intensive
> >care because someone eventually realised if they didn't do that she was
> >about to die having not understood what was wrong with her.....hey, I
don't
> >even need to go there....BTW she is now an incredibly fit four year old
> >
> >9. 2 years ago my eight year old step niece died of a brain tumour - all
> >she could do was mouth "I love you"
> >
> >10. A friend of mine was diagnosed with breast cancer 3 years ago....it
has
> >spread...she is counting the months she has 3 young children
> >
> >11. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 20 months ago and treated....I
ain't
> >half hoping I'm luckier than my friend
> >
> >Yep, I hope most of us all care but a lot of events can harden
> >people.....some of us will always care and I hope I can count myself
among
> >them but we also need to understand that occasionally people reach the
end
> >of the line....
> >
> >BTW I haven't yet - I still care about everything.
> >
> >Best Wishes
> >Gill
> >
> >
> >
> I wish I could feel for people as easily as I can for animals. I like
> to "play" with my fish. I have 6 SAEs in my 75 gallon tank and it was
> so much fun to have them gather around my hand and arm while working
> the plants. Some would approach my fingers and I would point a finger
> and they would scoot away, but immediately return. I would cup one
> and it would escape only at the last minute. I am sad they no longer
> play with my arm. My old female Greyhound and I have a game, I chase
> her while clapping my hands and she scoots for her bed. Even at 14
> with weak muscles she still likes the game.
>
> I can't figure out how to play with people! :-(
>
> dick
>
Yeah you can....you do it everyday on this newsgroup :-)
Gill

[Daniel Morrow]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:42:48 +0100, "Gill Passman"
> <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
> >> commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
> >> possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
> >> -- much as for a cat or a dog.
> >>
> >> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of
> >> plecos but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe
> >> 30 plecos in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an
> >> inch or so of water depth available for hours. Needless to say,
> >> when he finally put them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the
> >> shippers made a mistake, but the fish guy sure didn't give them the
> >> best chance to live. I expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too
> >> bad that they died. I'm so sorry." The fish guy's response was
> >> quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens all the time. It's no big deal.
> >> I'll contact the shipper and get a refund." (!) He sounded as if
> >> he received some light bulbs which broke during shipment.
> >>
> >> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
> >> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
> >> the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
> >> just merchandise to sell.
> >>
> >> coolchinchilla
> >
> >Yes, I do feel for my fish....I hate any loss and try to understand what
> >happened and how I can avoid it in the future...but I'm sorry to say my
> >emotions are proportionate....
> >
> >1. A fish I have just purchased might die...I've not had the opportunity
to
> >get attached
> >
> >2. Certain fish engage affection more than others.....do I get more upset
> >about a betta or cichlid than a tetra - probably
> >
> >3. Do I hate fish dying when I know it something I have done wrong (even
if
> >I don't know what).....very much it upsets me deeply
> >
> >4. Will I be devasted when my fav fish die.....certainly
> >
> >5. When my first rabbit died of Pneumonia after one of his numerous
nights
> >out visiting the local does -quite a lad in fact and brilliant
personality -
> >we were all heartbroken - he died in our arms
> >
> >6. Was I devasted when my 13 year old cat had to be put down due to
Kidney
> >failure - heartbroken
> >
> >7. Was I devasted when my 13 year old black lab had to be put down
because
> >he could no longer walk because of his hips - heartbroken - plus broke a
> >golden rule and had to have a drink even though I was pregnant at the
time
> >
> >8. How did I feel when my daughter at 10 months was taken into intensive
> >care because someone eventually realised if they didn't do that she was
> >about to die having not understood what was wrong with her.....hey, I
don't
> >even need to go there....BTW she is now an incredibly fit four year old
> >
> >9. 2 years ago my eight year old step niece died of a brain tumour - all
> >she could do was mouth "I love you"
> >
> >10. A friend of mine was diagnosed with breast cancer 3 years ago....it
has
> >spread...she is counting the months she has 3 young children
> >
> >11. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 20 months ago and treated....I
ain't
> >half hoping I'm luckier than my friend
> >
> >Yep, I hope most of us all care but a lot of events can harden
> >people.....some of us will always care and I hope I can count myself
among
> >them but we also need to understand that occasionally people reach the
end
> >of the line....
> >
> >BTW I haven't yet - I still care about everything.
> >
> >Best Wishes
> >Gill
> >
> >
> >
> I wish I could feel for people as easily as I can for animals. I like
> to "play" with my fish. I have 6 SAEs in my 75 gallon tank and it was
> so much fun to have them gather around my hand and arm while working
> the plants. Some would approach my fingers and I would point a finger
> and they would scoot away, but immediately return. I would cup one
> and it would escape only at the last minute. I am sad they no longer
> play with my arm. My old female Greyhound and I have a game, I chase
> her while clapping my hands and she scoots for her bed. Even at 14
> with weak muscles she still likes the game.
>
> I can't figure out how to play with people! :-(
>
> dick
>

The other night I came into the living room late for feeding my silver
dollar tank and almost all of the guppies were sleeping at the surface on
floating java ferns since the light had been off until then and I found that
to be a very special moment between me and my fancy guppies and other fish
in that tank. I think I found it special because it was a very cute sighting
and because I could relate with it (everyone has got to sleep!). I ought to
take a picture of them like that after my other friend returns my digital
camera which he is using for his work. Good luck, and later!

[Dick]

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:23:23 +0100, "Gill Passman"
<gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:42:48 +0100, "Gill Passman"
>> <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> I always feel sad if I lose a fish. My reasoning is that I made a
>> >> commitment to these guys that I will take care of them as best as I
>> >> possibly can so they can have a safe home and a reasonably long life
>> >> -- much as for a cat or a dog.
>> >>
>> >> I was disturbed one day at a LFS. They received a shipment of
>> >> plecos but the fish guy didn't take care of them right away. Maybe
>> >> 30 plecos in a bag left to flop on a counter so there was only an
>> >> inch or so of water depth available for hours. Needless to say,
>> >> when he finally put them in a tank they were all dead. Maybe the
>> >> shippers made a mistake, but the fish guy sure didn't give them the
>> >> best chance to live. I expressed sadness -- "oh that is really too
>> >> bad that they died. I'm so sorry." The fish guy's response was
>> >> quite cavalier -- "Oh that happens all the time. It's no big deal.
>> >> I'll contact the shipper and get a refund." (!) He sounded as if
>> >> he received some light bulbs which broke during shipment.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe I don't know how a LFS operates with its livestock and I might
>> >> respond the same way if I worked in one. Even so somehow I wanted
>> >> the fish guy to acknowledge that these fish were live creatures, not
>> >> just merchandise to sell.
>> >>
>> >> coolchinchilla
>> >
>> >Yes, I do feel for my fish....I hate any loss and try to understand what
>> >happened and how I can avoid it in the future...but I'm sorry to say my
>> >emotions are proportionate....
>> >
>> >1. A fish I have just purchased might die...I've not had the opportunity
>to
>> >get attached
>> >
>> >2. Certain fish engage affection more than others.....do I get more upset
>> >about a betta or cichlid than a tetra - probably
>> >
>> >3. Do I hate fish dying when I know it something I have done wrong (even
>if
>> >I don't know what).....very much it upsets me deeply
>> >
>> >4. Will I be devasted when my fav fish die.....certainly
>> >
>> >5. When my first rabbit died of Pneumonia after one of his numerous
>nights
>> >out visiting the local does -quite a lad in fact and brilliant
>personality -
>> >we were all heartbroken - he died in our arms
>> >
>> >6. Was I devasted when my 13 year old cat had to be put down due to
>Kidney
>> >failure - heartbroken
>> >
>> >7. Was I devasted when my 13 year old black lab had to be put down
>because
>> >he could no longer walk because of his hips - heartbroken - plus broke a
>> >golden rule and had to have a drink even though I was pregnant at the
>time
>> >
>> >8. How did I feel when my daughter at 10 months was taken into intensive
>> >care because someone eventually realised if they didn't do that she was
>> >about to die having not understood what was wrong with her.....hey, I
>don't
>> >even need to go there....BTW she is now an incredibly fit four year old
>> >
>> >9. 2 years ago my eight year old step niece died of a brain tumour - all
>> >she could do was mouth "I love you"
>> >
>> >10. A friend of mine was diagnosed with breast cancer 3 years ago....it
>has
>> >spread...she is counting the months she has 3 young children
>> >
>> >11. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 20 months ago and treated....I
>ain't
>> >half hoping I'm luckier than my friend
>> >
>> >Yep, I hope most of us all care but a lot of events can harden
>> >people.....some of us will always care and I hope I can count myself
>among
>> >them but we also need to understand that occasionally people reach the
>end
>> >of the line....
>> >
>> >BTW I haven't yet - I still care about everything.
>> >
>> >Best Wishes
>> >Gill
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> I wish I could feel for people as easily as I can for animals. I like
>> to "play" with my fish. I have 6 SAEs in my 75 gallon tank and it was
>> so much fun to have them gather around my hand and arm while working
>> the plants. Some would approach my fingers and I would point a finger
>> and they would scoot away, but immediately return. I would cup one
>> and it would escape only at the last minute. I am sad they no longer
>> play with my arm. My old female Greyhound and I have a game, I chase
>> her while clapping my hands and she scoots for her bed. Even at 14
>> with weak muscles she still likes the game.
>>
>> I can't figure out how to play with people! :-(
>>
>> dick
>>
>Yeah you can....you do it everyday on this newsgroup :-)
>Gill
>

Hi Gill,

You are right that I get a great deal of pleasure being part of this
newsgroup, but the "play" I mean has no intellectual component. It is
hard to describe. I first was aware of "play" with a Doberman I had
as a kid. During our walks we did something together and I don't
recall anything I can describe, but I knew he and I were playing a
game. The same with my old Greyhound. As I approach her from the
rear and clap my hands, she still gets real animated and races for her
bed, turning around with a gleeful look that says, "I made it home
safe!" There is an awareness that we both knew this was something fun
to do. We have done this for over 8 years and as her muscle control
wains, it means even more. I don't know if my big black Angelfish has
this awareness, but it certainly is acting as though it knows it is
going to get some flakes meant just for it even though she is at the
opposite side of the tank from the rest of the feeding flock.

Perhaps we do "play" in this group. I am here every morning because I
do enjoy the exchanges. But, I get uneasy when we stray "off topic."
Then I rationalize that nobody is forced to read a thread or an
author. The fact that I feel uncomfortable takes away from the
pleasure.

I wish it was easier to play with people. My idea of play is never
threatening. People always have a risk factor such as misunderstanding
a word, or walking out or staying too long. I have been criticized (by
an ex) that I shouldn't talk about personal matters at parties or with
a new acquaintance. Personal stuff is what I want to know, not just
talk about the weather.

I wish people were like a book that could be opened or closed, but
then my greyhound, Ruby, doesn't always respond to the chase.

dick

[Dick]

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:22:24 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>The other night I came into the living room late for feeding my silver
>dollar tank and almost all of the guppies were sleeping at the surface on
>floating java ferns since the light had been off until then and I found that
>to be a very special moment between me and my fancy guppies and other fish
>in that tank. I think I found it special because it was a very cute sighting
>and because I could relate with it (everyone has got to sleep!). I ought to
>take a picture of them like that after my other friend returns my digital
>camera which he is using for his work. Good luck, and later!
>

Such moments are impossible to share, I think. It is close to what I
call "play." Something clicks and you know that this is special, but
I fear anyone else watching would not get the same experience. At
such moments we are truly "alone" in the world. Lucky you to have
that feeling and know it is special.

dick

[Tynk]

Out of 3 Blue Ghoramis, one
male is special and I don't know why, perhaps because he has a corner
near where I sit to do exercises and he "stares" at me. >>

This makes me giggle.
Gouramis are also aware of their keepers and it is porbably trying to
figure out what on earth you are trying to do to yourself. Hehe.

[Dick]

On 22 Jun 2005 12:24:15 -0700, "Tynk" > wrote:

>Out of 3 Blue Ghoramis, one
>male is special and I don't know why, perhaps because he has a corner
>near where I sit to do exercises and he "stares" at me. >>
>
>This makes me giggle.
>Gouramis are also aware of their keepers and it is porbably trying to
>figure out what on earth you are trying to do to yourself. Hehe.

Yeah, I get similar stares from my dogs. After 8 years of watching
me, my old greyhound, Ruby, still lays on her bed and watches me
exercise. I guess life can get boring for fish, and dogs. I find
there are times I can't think of a thing I want to do. At such times I
hate to see a fish staring at me. I feel sorry for it.

dick