Ping Netmax Powercut kills Filter?

[NetMax]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
> Also posted to the UK group. Apologies for anyone reading twice.
>
> After two power outages of about 3/4 and 1 hour, of my three tanks the
> smallest (Juwel Rekord 60 with plants and 12 Platys) reads perfect
> water
> quality.
>
> The Juwel Rio 300 (plants, Platys, 4 Clown Loach, 6 Angels, 6 Danios,
> and 4
> Corys) is fine except for the pH.
> It's dropped to 6.0-6.5
>
> My Rio 400 (Plants, Comets, Shubunkins, SAE, Tench, Orfe) readings were
> dire
> !
> Ammonia was high (4.0), pH had fallen to 6.0, Nitrite was 0.0, and
> Nitrate
> was 40.
> After a 40% water change pH was still 6.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate dropped
> to
> 10, Ammonia 2.0.
> I've now double dosed with Prime, so will have to wait 24 hours to read
> it
> again.
> Is the worst over, or are my fish doomed ?

I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with the Rio tanks or their filtration
systems. A tank of Comets Shubunkins and Orfe will certainly pollute
much faster than smaller tropical fish, but they are also much tougher
than small tropicals. Their prognosis will depend a lot on their
condition prior to the filter failure. Try not to over-react if the fish
look good and they were already healthy. Getting the ammonia de-toxified
and then out of the tank, while stabilizing the parameters is the key.

> As for the Rio 300, does it need a waterchange ?

I guess this would depend on how different your tap water is, what caused
the drop in pH and how fast it dropped. Generally speaking, your Platys
are the only ones who would be uncomfortable long term with that pH. You
might have to use your discretion by observing the fish's behavior (are
you more excited and upset than they are? ;~). After a day, I figure the
fish have adapted to a different pH so I adjust back slowly. If only a
few minutes, then I adjust back quickly (you get the idea). Adjust this
strategy according to the fish and their behavior, but if they look ok,
then bring it back slowly.

> The 2 smaller tanks have a 25% waterchange weekly (last Wednesday), and
> the
> big one fortnightly (also last wednesday)

Filter failures result in a rush of bad water returning to the tank when
the power is resumed. That and the combination of a significant
reduction in bacteria to filter the water are what stress the fish after
(and during it is the reduction in oxygen). Temper your actions by
watching the fish's behaviour. Water changes are your friend, as are
airstones (more O2, means less stress for them). hth and seak other
advice.
--
www.NetMax.tk


> Peter

[2pods]

Also posted to the UK group. Apologies for anyone reading twice.

After two power outages of about 3/4 and 1 hour, of my three tanks the
smallest (Juwel Rekord 60 with plants and 12 Platys) reads perfect water
quality.

The Juwel Rio 300 (plants, Platys, 4 Clown Loach, 6 Angels, 6 Danios, and 4
Corys) is fine except for the pH.
It's dropped to 6.0-6.5

My Rio 400 (Plants, Comets, Shubunkins, SAE, Tench, Orfe) readings were dire
!
Ammonia was high (4.0), pH had fallen to 6.0, Nitrite was 0.0, and Nitrate
was 40.
After a 40% water change pH was still 6.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate dropped to
10, Ammonia 2.0.
I've now double dosed with Prime, so will have to wait 24 hours to read it
again.
Is the worst over, or are my fish doomed ?

As for the Rio 300, does it need a waterchange ?
The 2 smaller tanks have a 25% waterchange weekly (last Wednesday), and the
big one fortnightly (also last wednesday)

Peter

[2pods]

Much snippage

> Filter failures result in a rush of bad water returning to the tank when
> the power is resumed. That and the combination of a significant reduction
> in bacteria to filter the water are what stress the fish after (and during
> it is the reduction in oxygen). Temper your actions by watching the
> fish's behaviour. Water changes are your friend, as are airstones (more
> O2, means less stress for them). hth and seak other advice.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk

Thanks Max

Helpful as usual :-)

Peter

[Dick]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:41:58 +0100, "2pods" > wrote:

>Also posted to the UK group. Apologies for anyone reading twice.
>
>After two power outages of about 3/4 and 1 hour, of my three tanks the
>smallest (Juwel Rekord 60 with plants and 12 Platys) reads perfect water
>quality.
>
>The Juwel Rio 300 (plants, Platys, 4 Clown Loach, 6 Angels, 6 Danios, and 4
>Corys) is fine except for the pH.
>It's dropped to 6.0-6.5
>
>My Rio 400 (Plants, Comets, Shubunkins, SAE, Tench, Orfe) readings were dire
>!
>Ammonia was high (4.0), pH had fallen to 6.0, Nitrite was 0.0, and Nitrate
>was 40.
>After a 40% water change pH was still 6.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate dropped to
>10, Ammonia 2.0.
>I've now double dosed with Prime, so will have to wait 24 hours to read it
>again.
>Is the worst over, or are my fish doomed ?
>
>As for the Rio 300, does it need a waterchange ?
>The 2 smaller tanks have a 25% waterchange weekly (last Wednesday), and the
>big one fortnightly (also last wednesday)
>
>Peter
>

I am curious Peter. I have power outages some lasting an hour or 2.
I have never looked for tank changes and nothing has ever happened to
give me caution. What caused you to measure tank parameters after the
power came back on? Were the fish acting strangely? I never measure
chemical parameters unless I see fish behavior that needs
explaination.

I change 20% twice weekly in all of my tanks.

If it ain't broke don't fix it is my moto.

dick
>

[HairyMcLeary]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:41:58 +0100, "2pods" > wrote:
>
>>Also posted to the UK group. Apologies for anyone reading twice.
>>
>>After two power outages of about 3/4 and 1 hour, of my three tanks the
>>smallest (Juwel Rekord 60 with plants and 12 Platys) reads perfect water
>>quality.
>>
>>The Juwel Rio 300 (plants, Platys, 4 Clown Loach, 6 Angels, 6 Danios, and
>>4
>>Corys) is fine except for the pH.
>>It's dropped to 6.0-6.5
>>
>>My Rio 400 (Plants, Comets, Shubunkins, SAE, Tench, Orfe) readings were
>>dire
>>!
>>Ammonia was high (4.0), pH had fallen to 6.0, Nitrite was 0.0, and Nitrate
>>was 40.
>>After a 40% water change pH was still 6.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate dropped to
>>10, Ammonia 2.0.
>>I've now double dosed with Prime, so will have to wait 24 hours to read it
>>again.
>>Is the worst over, or are my fish doomed ?
>>
>>As for the Rio 300, does it need a waterchange ?
>>The 2 smaller tanks have a 25% waterchange weekly (last Wednesday), and
>>the
>>big one fortnightly (also last wednesday)
>>
>>Peter
>>
>
> I am curious Peter. I have power outages some lasting an hour or 2.
> I have never looked for tank changes and nothing has ever happened to
> give me caution. What caused you to measure tank parameters after the
> power came back on? Were the fish acting strangely? I never measure
> chemical parameters unless I see fish behavior that needs
> explaination.
>
> I change 20% twice weekly in all of my tanks.
>
> If it ain't broke don't fix it is my moto.
>
> dick
>>
>
I once lost all inhabitants of my tank several years ago after a power
outage (nearly 12 hours as I remember)
The contents of my canister filter went toxic during this time and pumped
this toxic waste into my tank when the power was restored. I have been told
that if the power is out for more than a couple of hours to remove the
filter media and keep it in clean water till the power is restored,
apparently it is the lack of oxygen in the canister that causes most of the
problem. Never had to try it, hope I never will.
I have had many outages of about an hour and have no problems, though it
never occurred to me to test the water.

Tony

[2pods]

"HairyMcLeary" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:41:58 +0100, "2pods" > wrote:
>>
>>>Also posted to the UK group. Apologies for anyone reading twice.
>>>
>>>After two power outages of about 3/4 and 1 hour, of my three tanks the
>>>smallest (Juwel Rekord 60 with plants and 12 Platys) reads perfect water
>>>quality.
>>>
>>>The Juwel Rio 300 (plants, Platys, 4 Clown Loach, 6 Angels, 6 Danios, and
>>>4
>>>Corys) is fine except for the pH.
>>>It's dropped to 6.0-6.5
>>>
>>>My Rio 400 (Plants, Comets, Shubunkins, SAE, Tench, Orfe) readings were
>>>dire
>>>!
>>>Ammonia was high (4.0), pH had fallen to 6.0, Nitrite was 0.0, and
>>>Nitrate
>>>was 40.
>>>After a 40% water change pH was still 6.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate dropped
>>>to
>>>10, Ammonia 2.0.
>>>I've now double dosed with Prime, so will have to wait 24 hours to read
>>>it
>>>again.
>>>Is the worst over, or are my fish doomed ?
>>>
>>>As for the Rio 300, does it need a waterchange ?
>>>The 2 smaller tanks have a 25% waterchange weekly (last Wednesday), and
>>>the
>>>big one fortnightly (also last wednesday)
>>>
>>>Peter
>>>
>>
>> I am curious Peter. I have power outages some lasting an hour or 2.
>> I have never looked for tank changes and nothing has ever happened to
>> give me caution. What caused you to measure tank parameters after the
>> power came back on? Were the fish acting strangely? I never measure
>> chemical parameters unless I see fish behavior that needs
>> explaination.
>>
>> I change 20% twice weekly in all of my tanks.
>>
>> If it ain't broke don't fix it is my moto.
>>
>> dick
>>>
>>
> I once lost all inhabitants of my tank several years ago after a power
> outage (nearly 12 hours as I remember)
> The contents of my canister filter went toxic during this time and pumped
> this toxic waste into my tank when the power was restored. I have been
> told that if the power is out for more than a couple of hours to remove
> the filter media and keep it in clean water till the power is restored,
> apparently it is the lack of oxygen in the canister that causes most of
> the problem. Never had to try it, hope I never will.
> I have had many outages of about an hour and have no problems, though it
> never occurred to me to test the water.
>
> Tony
I'm beginning to suspect it may have been off longer/during the night as the
cooker clock was slow.

In the Rio 400, the fish were down in the corner at the other end of the
filter.
So I tested.
I usually only test once every couple of months if everything has been OK.
It's double filtered with it's own internal and a Rena XP3 and a 15w UV.

I thought I'd check the Rio 300 to be on the safe side.
Checked GH in both 40 KH in both tanks was below 10
Both tanks are planted.

Peter

[Daniel Morrow]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
>
> "HairyMcLeary" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Dick" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:41:58 +0100, "2pods" > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Also posted to the UK group. Apologies for anyone reading twice.
> >>>
> >>>After two power outages of about 3/4 and 1 hour, of my three tanks the
> >>>smallest (Juwel Rekord 60 with plants and 12 Platys) reads perfect
water
> >>>quality.
> >>>
> >>>The Juwel Rio 300 (plants, Platys, 4 Clown Loach, 6 Angels, 6 Danios,
and
> >>>4
> >>>Corys) is fine except for the pH.
> >>>It's dropped to 6.0-6.5
> >>>
> >>>My Rio 400 (Plants, Comets, Shubunkins, SAE, Tench, Orfe) readings were
> >>>dire
> >>>!
> >>>Ammonia was high (4.0), pH had fallen to 6.0, Nitrite was 0.0, and
> >>>Nitrate
> >>>was 40.
> >>>After a 40% water change pH was still 6.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate dropped
> >>>to
> >>>10, Ammonia 2.0.
> >>>I've now double dosed with Prime, so will have to wait 24 hours to read
> >>>it
> >>>again.
> >>>Is the worst over, or are my fish doomed ?
> >>>
> >>>As for the Rio 300, does it need a waterchange ?
> >>>The 2 smaller tanks have a 25% waterchange weekly (last Wednesday), and
> >>>the
> >>>big one fortnightly (also last wednesday)
> >>>
> >>>Peter
> >>>
> >>
> >> I am curious Peter. I have power outages some lasting an hour or 2.
> >> I have never looked for tank changes and nothing has ever happened to
> >> give me caution. What caused you to measure tank parameters after the
> >> power came back on? Were the fish acting strangely? I never measure
> >> chemical parameters unless I see fish behavior that needs
> >> explaination.
> >>
> >> I change 20% twice weekly in all of my tanks.
> >>
> >> If it ain't broke don't fix it is my moto.
> >>
> >> dick
> >>>
> >>
> > I once lost all inhabitants of my tank several years ago after a power
> > outage (nearly 12 hours as I remember)
> > The contents of my canister filter went toxic during this time and
pumped
> > this toxic waste into my tank when the power was restored. I have been
> > told that if the power is out for more than a couple of hours to remove
> > the filter media and keep it in clean water till the power is restored,
> > apparently it is the lack of oxygen in the canister that causes most of
> > the problem. Never had to try it, hope I never will.
> > I have had many outages of about an hour and have no problems, though it
> > never occurred to me to test the water.
> >
> > Tony
> I'm beginning to suspect it may have been off longer/during the night as
the
> cooker clock was slow.
>
> In the Rio 400, the fish were down in the corner at the other end of the
> filter.
> So I tested.
> I usually only test once every couple of months if everything has been OK.
> It's double filtered with it's own internal and a Rena XP3 and a 15w UV.
>
> I thought I'd check the Rio 300 to be on the safe side.
> Checked GH in both 40 KH in both tanks was below 10
> Both tanks are planted.
>
> Peter
>
>

The only way that I am aware of to deal with power outages completely is to
use a backup power generator, way too expensive for me right now so I will
make do. One recommendation is to get one with a sine wave output but this
recommendation is really only especially important if you plan on using
sensitive devices with it such as a computer. UPSs simply only help as much
as one drop in the bucket as far as long term duration of power outages go.
The sine wave output means the ac output is only "on" for part of the time
and so doesn't overheat sensitive devices, very basically put. Good luck and
later!

[NetMax]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "2pods" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "HairyMcLeary" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Dick" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:41:58 +0100, "2pods" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Also posted to the UK group. Apologies for anyone reading twice.
>> >>>
>> >>>After two power outages of about 3/4 and 1 hour, of my three tanks the
>> >>>smallest (Juwel Rekord 60 with plants and 12 Platys) reads perfect
> water
>> >>>quality.
>> >>>
>> >>>The Juwel Rio 300 (plants, Platys, 4 Clown Loach, 6 Angels, 6 Danios,
> and
>> >>>4
>> >>>Corys) is fine except for the pH.
>> >>>It's dropped to 6.0-6.5
>> >>>
>> >>>My Rio 400 (Plants, Comets, Shubunkins, SAE, Tench, Orfe) readings
>> >>>were
>> >>>dire
>> >>>!
>> >>>Ammonia was high (4.0), pH had fallen to 6.0, Nitrite was 0.0, and
>> >>>Nitrate
>> >>>was 40.
>> >>>After a 40% water change pH was still 6.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate
>> >>>dropped
>> >>>to
>> >>>10, Ammonia 2.0.
>> >>>I've now double dosed with Prime, so will have to wait 24 hours to
>> >>>read
>> >>>it
>> >>>again.
>> >>>Is the worst over, or are my fish doomed ?
>> >>>
>> >>>As for the Rio 300, does it need a waterchange ?
>> >>>The 2 smaller tanks have a 25% waterchange weekly (last Wednesday),
>> >>>and
>> >>>the
>> >>>big one fortnightly (also last wednesday)
>> >>>
>> >>>Peter
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I am curious Peter. I have power outages some lasting an hour or 2.
>> >> I have never looked for tank changes and nothing has ever happened to
>> >> give me caution. What caused you to measure tank parameters after the
>> >> power came back on? Were the fish acting strangely? I never measure
>> >> chemical parameters unless I see fish behavior that needs
>> >> explaination.
>> >>
>> >> I change 20% twice weekly in all of my tanks.
>> >>
>> >> If it ain't broke don't fix it is my moto.
>> >>
>> >> dick
>> >>>
>> >>
>> > I once lost all inhabitants of my tank several years ago after a power
>> > outage (nearly 12 hours as I remember)
>> > The contents of my canister filter went toxic during this time and
> pumped
>> > this toxic waste into my tank when the power was restored. I have been
>> > told that if the power is out for more than a couple of hours to remove
>> > the filter media and keep it in clean water till the power is restored,
>> > apparently it is the lack of oxygen in the canister that causes most of
>> > the problem. Never had to try it, hope I never will.
>> > I have had many outages of about an hour and have no problems, though
>> > it
>> > never occurred to me to test the water.
>> >
>> > Tony
>> I'm beginning to suspect it may have been off longer/during the night as
> the
>> cooker clock was slow.
>>
>> In the Rio 400, the fish were down in the corner at the other end of the
>> filter.
>> So I tested.
>> I usually only test once every couple of months if everything has been
>> OK.
>> It's double filtered with it's own internal and a Rena XP3 and a 15w UV.
>>
>> I thought I'd check the Rio 300 to be on the safe side.
>> Checked GH in both 40 KH in both tanks was below 10
>> Both tanks are planted.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>
> The only way that I am aware of to deal with power outages completely is
> to
> use a backup power generator, way too expensive for me right now so I will
> make do. One recommendation is to get one with a sine wave output but this
> recommendation is really only especially important if you plan on using
> sensitive devices with it such as a computer. UPSs simply only help as
> much
> as one drop in the bucket as far as long term duration of power outages
> go.
> The sine wave output means the ac output is only "on" for part of the time
> and so doesn't overheat sensitive devices, very basically put. Good luck
> and
> later!


If you use a UPS for an aquarium, generally you would only have your filter
connected. Lights and airstones are not essential and heaters draw too much
power, significantly reducing your run time.

A UPS needs to convert its battery's dc voltage to an ac voltage, and the
cheapest methods result in less than ideal ac waveform (ie: a sawtooth
waveform, like teeth on a shark, up and down very quickly) instead of a more
gradual smoother waveform (sinusoidal or sine wave), which is what you get
from your power company. Many devices such as transformers and electric
motors run hotter on a sawtooth waveform. Other devices such as
incandescent lights or circuits which convert the waveform back into dc (ie:
computers) can be oblivious to sawtooth versus sinusoidal for short periods
of time.

If you run your canister filter off of a cheap UPS (which gives anything but
a sinewave, ie: more sawtooth, trapezoidal or square wave), then monitor the
heat of the motor. It is somewhat water cooled which helps, but it might
otherwise still protest depending on its design and how well shaped the
UPS's power delivery is. hth, 'ymmv' is a certainty in most cases.


Regarding a canister filter going anaerobic in 45 minutes to an hour, this
too sounds like a short time for the results being seen, but it doesn't
sound impossible either. Hopefully more of the bacteria went dormant than
actually died off, so the recovery will be quicker.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[David C. Stone]

In article >, Daniel Morrow
> wrote:

[snip]
>
> The only way that I am aware of to deal with power outages completely is to
> use a backup power generator, way too expensive for me right now so I will
> make do. One recommendation is to get one with a sine wave output but this
> recommendation is really only especially important if you plan on using
> sensitive devices with it such as a computer. UPSs simply only help as much
> as one drop in the bucket as far as long term duration of power outages go.
> The sine wave output means the ac output is only "on" for part of the time
> and so doesn't overheat sensitive devices, very basically put. Good luck and
> later!

????

AC power implies a sine wave - that's what mains ac is, anyway.

Or are you saying that some generators actually put out something
other than a sine wave?

[2pods]

<Much snippage>
> Regarding a canister filter going anaerobic in 45 minutes to an hour, this
> too sounds like a short time for the results being seen, but it doesn't
> sound impossible either. Hopefully more of the bacteria went dormant than
> actually died off, so the recovery will be quicker.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk

It might have been more than that, also it was very hot.
I'm now getting weird test results.
pH on the two larger tanks is down to 6.0, I was getting ammonia on the big
tank (400l) though the ammonia alarm didn't trigger (checked with household
ammonia, it's working) so could be ammonium ?

No nitrite, and Nitrate as low as usual 5 - 10

Peter

[David C. Stone]

In article >, 2pods >
wrote:

> <Much snippage>
> > Regarding a canister filter going anaerobic in 45 minutes to an hour, this
> > too sounds like a short time for the results being seen, but it doesn't
> > sound impossible either. Hopefully more of the bacteria went dormant than
> > actually died off, so the recovery will be quicker.
> > --
> > www.NetMax.tk
>
> It might have been more than that, also it was very hot.
> I'm now getting weird test results.
> pH on the two larger tanks is down to 6.0, I was getting ammonia on the big
> tank (400l) though the ammonia alarm didn't trigger (checked with household
> ammonia, it's working) so could be ammonium ?

If the pH is low, you'll have proportionately more ammonium than
ammonia. The chemical test kits shouldn't be too bothered by this.
If your alarm is based on a gas-permeable membrane electrode, it
would take a higher level of NH3/NH4+ for it to trigger.

[NetMax]

"David C. Stone" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Daniel Morrow
> > wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>
>> The only way that I am aware of to deal with power outages completely is
>> to
>> use a backup power generator, way too expensive for me right now so I
>> will
>> make do. One recommendation is to get one with a sine wave output but
>> this
>> recommendation is really only especially important if you plan on using
>> sensitive devices with it such as a computer. UPSs simply only help as
>> much
>> as one drop in the bucket as far as long term duration of power outages
>> go.
>> The sine wave output means the ac output is only "on" for part of the
>> time
>> and so doesn't overheat sensitive devices, very basically put. Good luck
>> and
>> later!
>
> ????
>
> AC power implies a sine wave - that's what mains ac is, anyway.
>
> Or are you saying that some generators actually put out something
> other than a sine wave?

AC just means an alternating current. The easiest way to produce AC is to
switch high DC on and off (and level shift it down 50%, so the current
alternates) giving you a square wave. Put some heavy capacitance on that
and it becomes a sawtooth or a trapezoid (a leaning sawtooth if I remember
correctly, and I am trying to simplify my explanation). Proper generators
give you more of a gradual rise & fall characteristic of a sine wave. Some
UPS (cheaper models) will not give you a proper waveform.

The RMS power of a sawtooth is lower than a sinewave and has strong
harmonics. Some equipment doesn't like their input power so peaky.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Daniel Morrow]

"David C. Stone" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Daniel Morrow
> > wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >
> > The only way that I am aware of to deal with power outages completely is
to
> > use a backup power generator, way too expensive for me right now so I
will
> > make do. One recommendation is to get one with a sine wave output but
this
> > recommendation is really only especially important if you plan on using
> > sensitive devices with it such as a computer. UPSs simply only help as
much
> > as one drop in the bucket as far as long term duration of power outages
go.
> > The sine wave output means the ac output is only "on" for part of the
time
> > and so doesn't overheat sensitive devices, very basically put. Good luck
and
> > later!
>
> ????
>
> AC power implies a sine wave - that's what mains ac is, anyway.
>
> Or are you saying that some generators actually put out something
> other than a sine wave?

Exactly, Back in the early days of personal computers there was a lot of
magazine articles/etc. about how sine wave is way better for computers than
the typical square wave because of heat generation. This was about upss and
generators. I am talking about waveforms.