One fish stressed -- what to do?

[coolchinchilla]

With my cichlid tank I thought everyone was ok after the UGF problems.

I noticed after a couple hours after changing the water that one
fish was in trouble. He seemed very pale, breathing hard, swimming
all over the tank. He holds his fins close to his body. He
shimmied once or twice too. I think he's a lab (lemon yellow body
with black top and bottom fins).

I put food in the tank and added aquarium salt. My
ammonia-nitrite-nitrate levels are great. I put in more stress coat.

I don't want to lose him. I'm really afraid for him. I don't know
what to do. Any links?

Thanks.
coolchinchilla

[coolchinchilla]

coolchinchilla wrote:
>
> I don't want to lose him. I'm really afraid for him. I don't know what
> to do. Any links?
>

Ok... I read that you should put a stressed fish into a hospital
tank. I don't have a spare tank for a hospital. I have however set
up a 2-gal bucket with aquarium water, sponge filter from the large
tank, small heater and a thermometer. Will that be ok for a
hospital tank at least for now?

I tried to catch the fish but found I couldn't get him. I was
stressing everybody by turning on lights, net, etc. Anyway, I
couldn't tell which of my 2 labs was stressed because everyone was
stressed by that point. So I will let everyone sleep for now and
see how things are in the morning. Not the best, I know, but I'm
not sure what else to do.

If things are still looking bad for my stressed fish, other than
putting him in the hospital bucket, what should I do for him? Let
him just hang out there for a few days?

Thanks

coolchinchilla (worried fish keeper)

[Dick]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:37:04 -0500, coolchinchilla
> wrote:

>coolchinchilla wrote:
>>
>> I don't want to lose him. I'm really afraid for him. I don't know what
>> to do. Any links?
>>
>
>Ok... I read that you should put a stressed fish into a hospital
>tank. I don't have a spare tank for a hospital. I have however set
>up a 2-gal bucket with aquarium water, sponge filter from the large
>tank, small heater and a thermometer. Will that be ok for a
>hospital tank at least for now?
>
>I tried to catch the fish but found I couldn't get him. I was
>stressing everybody by turning on lights, net, etc. Anyway, I
>couldn't tell which of my 2 labs was stressed because everyone was
>stressed by that point. So I will let everyone sleep for now and
>see how things are in the morning. Not the best, I know, but I'm
>not sure what else to do.
>
>If things are still looking bad for my stressed fish, other than
>putting him in the hospital bucket, what should I do for him? Let
>him just hang out there for a few days?
>
>Thanks
>
>coolchinchilla (worried fish keeper)


Personally I would leave the fish in the tank and not add to its
stress by being alone in a strange place. Without symptoms that are
clearly indication of a specific illness, I fear you will have to let
nature take its course. The advantage of a hospital tank is the
ability to use medications and not have to worry about contagion or
damage to other species by the medication.

I have had problems with individual fish after moving plants and
ornaments around. I quit stirring the gravel except for very specific
changes. I don't even clean the gravel during my twice weekly partial
water changes. I also note and agree with your reluctance to chase a
fish causing havoc with the other fish.

If the problem is stress the best treatment, in my opinion, is to
leave the tank alone. Perhaps, leave the light off for a day or two
and do nothing to stress the fish more.

dick

[Gill Passman]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:37:04 -0500, coolchinchilla
> > wrote:
>
> >coolchinchilla wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't want to lose him. I'm really afraid for him. I don't know
what
> >> to do. Any links?
> >>
> >
> >Ok... I read that you should put a stressed fish into a hospital
> >tank. I don't have a spare tank for a hospital. I have however set
> >up a 2-gal bucket with aquarium water, sponge filter from the large
> >tank, small heater and a thermometer. Will that be ok for a
> >hospital tank at least for now?
> >
> >I tried to catch the fish but found I couldn't get him. I was
> >stressing everybody by turning on lights, net, etc. Anyway, I
> >couldn't tell which of my 2 labs was stressed because everyone was
> >stressed by that point. So I will let everyone sleep for now and
> >see how things are in the morning. Not the best, I know, but I'm
> >not sure what else to do.
> >
> >If things are still looking bad for my stressed fish, other than
> >putting him in the hospital bucket, what should I do for him? Let
> >him just hang out there for a few days?
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >coolchinchilla (worried fish keeper)
>
>
> Personally I would leave the fish in the tank and not add to its
> stress by being alone in a strange place. Without symptoms that are
> clearly indication of a specific illness, I fear you will have to let
> nature take its course. The advantage of a hospital tank is the
> ability to use medications and not have to worry about contagion or
> damage to other species by the medication.
>
> I have had problems with individual fish after moving plants and
> ornaments around. I quit stirring the gravel except for very specific
> changes. I don't even clean the gravel during my twice weekly partial
> water changes. I also note and agree with your reluctance to chase a
> fish causing havoc with the other fish.
>
> If the problem is stress the best treatment, in my opinion, is to
> leave the tank alone. Perhaps, leave the light off for a day or two
> and do nothing to stress the fish more.
>
> dick

The problem with Mbunas is once you remove the fish it is very difficult to
reintroduce it to the tank.

I've had a Malawi tank since Feb. In that time I lost two Rusty cichlids
down to "in fighting"....I moved the third because the other fish were
picking on her and I could see her going the same way....after three
uncomfortable days with my Betta she went back to the shop (at the earliest
opportunity)

I have three Melanchronis cyaneorhabdos (plus at least three fry now the
size of tetras). The last time they spawned the poor female ended up with
very little tail and shredded fins - once the fry were released she
recovered. Right now the same thing has happened - the tail and fins which
had grown back are gone again - the last few days she was moping and not
feeding and looking very stressed - I even thought she had also been
"finished off" by the others. Tonight she is swimming (sort of) around
again.

One of my female Maylandia Lombardoi has also lost most of her tail and has
been hanging around looking very miserable for a few days....again I think
this may have been a spawning incident.

I have some fry that I have not identified - I'm wondering if these are a
result of what I have assumed are bullying incidents.

When I first thought of setting up the Malawi tank I read that they were
aggressive but nothing prepared me for the reality. I'm starting to wonder
if I really want to keep these fish - but it might just be a bad phase on my
part...The male Maylandia and the male Melanchronis are just mean IMO.

Good luck
Gill

[coolchinchilla]

Dick wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:37:04 -0500, coolchinchilla
> > wrote:
>
>
>>coolchinchilla wrote:
>>>>
>>If things are still looking bad for my stressed fish, other than
>>putting him in the hospital bucket, what should I do for him? Let
>>him just hang out there for a few days?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>coolchinchilla (worried fish keeper)
>
>
>
> Personally I would leave the fish in the tank and not add to its
> stress by being alone in a strange place.

Hmmmm.... <sigh> I did take the stressed fish plus another fish of
the same species and put them in a hospital bucket. I pulled out
all the rock work to get them so I stressed everybody. I stacked
the rocks back in the main tank and put a plastic plant and a rock
hiding place in the hospital bucket. Then I fed everyone.

> Without symptoms that are
> clearly indication of a specific illness,

When I looked on the internet for signs of disease & stress they
said changes in swimming patterns, clamped fins, hiding in corners,
turning pale & shimmying are clear signs of disease. That's what my
stressed fish showed after all the other fish were somewhat back to
normal. Sites said to get the fish out immediately. Was I
misinterpreting the stress signs of this fish and reading more into it?

> If the problem is stress the best treatment, in my opinion, is to
> leave the tank alone. Perhaps, leave the light off for a day or two
> and do nothing to stress the fish more.
>
> dick

Now that I stressed all the fish out, what should I do now? Put the
two in the hospital bucket back in the tank?

Thanks everyone for your help. I must be over-reacting to things.
I'll get it together one of these days. :-)

coolchinchilla

[Gill Passman]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
> Dick wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:37:04 -0500, coolchinchilla
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>coolchinchilla wrote:
> >>>>
> >>If things are still looking bad for my stressed fish, other than
> >>putting him in the hospital bucket, what should I do for him? Let
> >>him just hang out there for a few days?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>coolchinchilla (worried fish keeper)
> >
> >
> >
> > Personally I would leave the fish in the tank and not add to its
> > stress by being alone in a strange place.
>
> Hmmmm.... <sigh> I did take the stressed fish plus another fish of
> the same species and put them in a hospital bucket. I pulled out
> all the rock work to get them so I stressed everybody. I stacked
> the rocks back in the main tank and put a plastic plant and a rock
> hiding place in the hospital bucket. Then I fed everyone.
>
> > Without symptoms that are
> > clearly indication of a specific illness,
>
> When I looked on the internet for signs of disease & stress they
> said changes in swimming patterns, clamped fins, hiding in corners,
> turning pale & shimmying are clear signs of disease. That's what my
> stressed fish showed after all the other fish were somewhat back to
> normal. Sites said to get the fish out immediately. Was I
> misinterpreting the stress signs of this fish and reading more into it?
>
> > If the problem is stress the best treatment, in my opinion, is to
> > leave the tank alone. Perhaps, leave the light off for a day or two
> > and do nothing to stress the fish more.
> >
> > dick
>
> Now that I stressed all the fish out, what should I do now? Put the
> two in the hospital bucket back in the tank?
>
> Thanks everyone for your help. I must be over-reacting to things.
> I'll get it together one of these days. :-)
>
> coolchinchilla

If you have already taken them out then wait until the signs of stress have
gone...this is a new tank and you don't know quite what is going on so treat
like a QT period. I know that people have put existing and new fish back
into a Mbuna tank. The main way I believe is by re-arranging the caves and
introducing the fish under "lights out" conditions (pref at night). So they
all wake up and have to re-establish their territory...This is just IMHO.

Hey, I panic about my Mbunas daily....so much now I'm thinking of swapping
them for something else...
Gill

[Dick]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:06:39 +0100, "Gill Passman"
<gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
>> Dick wrote:
>> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:37:04 -0500, coolchinchilla
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>coolchinchilla wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>If things are still looking bad for my stressed fish, other than
>> >>putting him in the hospital bucket, what should I do for him? Let
>> >>him just hang out there for a few days?
>> >>
>> >>Thanks
>> >>
>> >>coolchinchilla (worried fish keeper)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Personally I would leave the fish in the tank and not add to its
>> > stress by being alone in a strange place.
>>
>> Hmmmm.... <sigh> I did take the stressed fish plus another fish of
>> the same species and put them in a hospital bucket. I pulled out
>> all the rock work to get them so I stressed everybody. I stacked
>> the rocks back in the main tank and put a plastic plant and a rock
>> hiding place in the hospital bucket. Then I fed everyone.
>>
>> > Without symptoms that are
>> > clearly indication of a specific illness,
>>
>> When I looked on the internet for signs of disease & stress they
>> said changes in swimming patterns, clamped fins, hiding in corners,
>> turning pale & shimmying are clear signs of disease. That's what my
>> stressed fish showed after all the other fish were somewhat back to
>> normal. Sites said to get the fish out immediately. Was I
>> misinterpreting the stress signs of this fish and reading more into it?
>>
>> > If the problem is stress the best treatment, in my opinion, is to
>> > leave the tank alone. Perhaps, leave the light off for a day or two
>> > and do nothing to stress the fish more.
>> >
>> > dick
>>
>> Now that I stressed all the fish out, what should I do now? Put the
>> two in the hospital bucket back in the tank?
>>
>> Thanks everyone for your help. I must be over-reacting to things.
>> I'll get it together one of these days. :-)
>>
>> coolchinchilla
>
>If you have already taken them out then wait until the signs of stress have
>gone...this is a new tank and you don't know quite what is going on so treat
>like a QT period. I know that people have put existing and new fish back
>into a Mbuna tank. The main way I believe is by re-arranging the caves and
>introducing the fish under "lights out" conditions (pref at night). So they
>all wake up and have to re-establish their territory...This is just IMHO.
>
>Hey, I panic about my Mbunas daily....so much now I'm thinking of swapping
>them for something else...
>Gill
>

I agree with Gill. Now that you have done the deed, give every one a
chance to settle down and continue your observation of the hospital
bucket.

Coolchinchilla, you seem to have a God syndrome. Personally, I find
I can't solve every problem that I face. Sometimes doing nothing is
better than over action. I really resist any effort to disturb my
tanks, just the partial water changes each week disturbs the fish.
Think of how you would feel if your home was invaded all the time.

This may be over the top, but an old memory of having come home and
finding I had been robbed left me upset for months. If your fish are
like mine, after a few months they stake out territories, they are
less active, they are "at home" in the tank. We are "intrudders!"
Except when we feed them, then we are heros.

Having said such words of wisdom, I remembered visiting with a "fishy"
friend yesterday discussing a current spat of deaths and possible
causes. All the while as she mentioned individual fish, she would tap
at the glass nearest the fish being discussed. I was shocked, but
said nothing. I had sense enough to recognize her fish were used to
her behavior. I guess fish have tolerance even for our invasions. <g>

I also believe I have seen my fish pass through "moods," not sick just
quiet versus active. As I have mentioned in other threads, I had an
adult Black Angel quit eating for a month. I looked for signs of ill
health, but saw nothing except her "fasting." So, I just watched her
carefully and about a month later she suddenly returned to her old
eating habits. Sometimes doing nothing is the best action to take.

I hope your fish recovers and can go back to the larger tank soon.

dick

[coolchinchilla]

Dick wrote:
>
> I agree with Gill. Now that you have done the deed, give every one a
> chance to settle down and continue your observation of the hospital
> bucket.
>
> Coolchinchilla, you seem to have a God syndrome. Personally, I find
> I can't solve every problem that I face. Sometimes doing nothing is
> better than over action. I really resist any effort to disturb my
> tanks, just the partial water changes each week disturbs the fish.
> Think of how you would feel if your home was invaded all the time.
>
> This may be over the top, but an old memory of having come home and
> finding I had been robbed left me upset for months. If your fish are
> like mine, after a few months they stake out territories, they are
> less active, they are "at home" in the tank. We are "intrudders!"
> Except when we feed them, then we are heros.
<snip>
> I also believe I have seen my fish pass through "moods," not
sick just
> quiet versus active. As I have mentioned in other threads, I had an
> adult Black Angel quit eating for a month. I looked for signs of ill
> health, but saw nothing except her "fasting." So, I just watched her
> carefully and about a month later she suddenly returned to her old
> eating habits. Sometimes doing nothing is the best action to take.

I see what you mean about "invading" the tanks. I forget how
utterly stressful it must be to upset the entire tank. I guess I
did go overboard on my caretaking here. I never thought about fish
going through "moods." That helps me understand better. I'll scale
it back from now on. That's why I subscribed to this newsgroup --
to learn how to better take care of the fish tanks I'm entrusted
with. Thanks for the gentle advice.

> I hope your fish recovers and can go back to the larger tank soon.

I hope so too. :-)

coolchinchilla