So how do you guys start a new tank (assuming you can't seed the filters from somewhere else)

[Clint]

I've kept fish for the last 5 years or so, and I think I'm ready to start an
African cichlid tank. For lack of something better, I'm thinking of trying
the 75 gallon recipe from
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidrecipe/crp22.htm. The list is somewhere
close to 30 fish (approximately 10 trio's, which I'm sure will get juggled
around based on availability at the LFS).

The reading I've done suggests that a whack of cichlids should be dropped in
at about the same time, so you're not introducing new fish into someone
else's established territory. Makes sense, but how do you get the tank
ready for that many fish to be dumped into it? At an approximate cost of
$10/fish, I'm thinking that's a quick way to blow $300, not to mention the
carnage, and having to explain to the kids why all the new fish are
practising the backstroke. I don't have another tank established right now
that I can borrow media from, although I guess I could push my wife to set
up the 30 gallon tank, and hook my larger filter to it for awhile. Still
wouldn't be the same, though. Or even close to the same (but better than
nothing, I guess).

Also, what's the most economical way you guys have found to set up the
rockwork required for the Africans? The lacerock I've seen is quite price,
almost to the same price as live rock for marine tanks. Do you guys (and
gals) go get rock from local landscaping companies, or what?

Thanks for your input! Right now, I'm working on building the tankstand for
the 80 gallon tank. So at the rate I build things, I've got a few months
to think about it.

Clint

[NetMax]

"Clint" > wrote in message
news:QjExe.89629$HI.12050@edtnps84...
> I've kept fish for the last 5 years or so, and I think I'm ready to
> start an African cichlid tank. For lack of something better, I'm
> thinking of trying the 75 gallon recipe from
> http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidrecipe/crp22.htm. The list is
> somewhere close to 30 fish (approximately 10 trio's, which I'm sure
> will get juggled around based on availability at the LFS).
>
> The reading I've done suggests that a whack of cichlids should be
> dropped in at about the same time, so you're not introducing new fish
> into someone else's established territory. Makes sense, but how do you
> get the tank ready for that many fish to be dumped into it? At an
> approximate cost of $10/fish, I'm thinking that's a quick way to blow
> $300, not to mention the carnage, and having to explain to the kids why
> all the new fish are practising the backstroke. I don't have another
> tank established right now that I can borrow media from, although I
> guess I could push my wife to set up the 30 gallon tank, and hook my
> larger filter to it for awhile. Still wouldn't be the same, though.
> Or even close to the same (but better than nothing, I guess).
>
> Also, what's the most economical way you guys have found to set up the
> rockwork required for the Africans? The lacerock I've seen is quite
> price, almost to the same price as live rock for marine tanks. Do you
> guys (and gals) go get rock from local landscaping companies, or what?
>
> Thanks for your input! Right now, I'm working on building the
> tankstand for the 80 gallon tank. So at the rate I build things, I've
> got a few months to think about it.
>
> Clint


1) (if tank #1): Fill smaller tank with water, load to 5ppm with liquid
ammonia, turn on filter, leave lights off, turn heater on and then leave
it all alone. You now have 3 weeks to get everything else ready.

1-1/2) Ideally you start purchasing your fish from different locations
and putting them into bare-bottom quarantine tanks. Three weeks is a
nice quarantine. With other tanks running you significantly shorten and
simplify your cycle (as you know).

2) Plan logistics, tank location, filters, access for servicing, southern
sun exposure to avoid, stand, floor, GFI electrical power, access to
water etc.

3) Decorate. Visit construction sites, sign wavers to wander their lots
and bring home trunk/trailer loads of rocks. For large tanks or lots of
rockwork, avoid the LFS. Even quarries have better prices, including
gravel (depending on how you're buffering of course).

4) Lay down a thin sheet of styrofoam and start building the rockwork.
At the same time, plan/install all return/intake pipes, plastic/silk
plants and plan how the water will flow through the tank. I once build a
cardboard mock-up and built everything there, took pictures and then
transferred the design to the real tank. Takes longer but it's easier on
the back and safer on real glass. Note however that I'm a twisted
fish-aholic, and you shouldn't necessarily be listening to my advice ;~)

5) Fill with water, adjust heaters, turn on filters and let run a couple
of days. Then move aged filters (or media) from smaller tank. Introduce
between 100 and 120% of the fish quantity that you want as juveniles. It
might cost you a few hundred, but then you generally only need to spend
money on food, which is not so bad. If you can't introduce them all at
the same time, then do it in order of smallest/weakest/least territorial
to largest/strongest/most territorial added at night.

That's what works for me (but I do usually use quarantine tanks).
However there are lots of different ways to do it, as you will soon hear
about. Also your source of fish can be friends, clubs and online
purchasing, all of which would probably result in healthier fish to start
with.

ps: from concept to completion, my bigger tanks take about 3 months, so
you might be planning this just right.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Clint]

Thanks for the input. I'm also debating (internally) New World vs. African
cichlids. The LFS has some nice little blue Jack Dempsey's (at $37 CDN a
pop!), some Salvini's, and I've always been partial to Firemouths. I had a
breeding pair of Salvini's at one point, but I re-introduced the female to
the male too soon after the second batch of babies, and that didn't go so
well. A breeding pair of the JD's would be cool, although they'd probably
end up the only inhabitants of the tank unless I rigged up a divider, I
think.

Ah, well, I've got time... :) BTW, what do you use for liquid ammonia? I
imagine it has to be fairly pure, with no funkiness to improve the cleaning
or smell. Also, your idea of a mockup is a good one. This tank will be
more difficult than the others I've set up, as it will (probably) stick out
in the room (i.e two long sides exposed, and a short side), completing a U
shaped desk for me. That's the current plan, although I'll probably end up
doing a mockup of the full tank/stand, and see how that feels first. I'll
also have to negotiate with the kids to not run around with hockey sticks
over their shoulders. :)

BTW, I read some of your other posts about hoarding filters. :) If you
stumble across an extra canister filter suitable for an 80 gallon tank, care
to drop me a note? I've got a bid in on a Fluval 404 right now, but you
never know how that's going to go. You're up here in Canada, right?

Clint

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Clint" > wrote in message
> news:QjExe.89629$HI.12050@edtnps84...
<initial blurb filtered...>
>
> 1) (if tank #1): Fill smaller tank with water, load to 5ppm with liquid
> ammonia, turn on filter, leave lights off, turn heater on and then leave
> it all alone. You now have 3 weeks to get everything else ready.
>
> 1-1/2) Ideally you start purchasing your fish from different locations and
> putting them into bare-bottom quarantine tanks. Three weeks is a nice
> quarantine. With other tanks running you significantly shorten and
> simplify your cycle (as you know).
>
> 2) Plan logistics, tank location, filters, access for servicing, southern
> sun exposure to avoid, stand, floor, GFI electrical power, access to water
> etc.
>
> 3) Decorate. Visit construction sites, sign wavers to wander their lots
> and bring home trunk/trailer loads of rocks. For large tanks or lots of
> rockwork, avoid the LFS. Even quarries have better prices, including
> gravel (depending on how you're buffering of course).
>
> 4) Lay down a thin sheet of styrofoam and start building the rockwork. At
> the same time, plan/install all return/intake pipes, plastic/silk plants
> and plan how the water will flow through the tank. I once build a
> cardboard mock-up and built everything there, took pictures and then
> transferred the design to the real tank. Takes longer but it's easier on
> the back and safer on real glass. Note however that I'm a twisted
> fish-aholic, and you shouldn't necessarily be listening to my advice ;~)
>
> 5) Fill with water, adjust heaters, turn on filters and let run a couple
> of days. Then move aged filters (or media) from smaller tank. Introduce
> between 100 and 120% of the fish quantity that you want as juveniles. It
> might cost you a few hundred, but then you generally only need to spend
> money on food, which is not so bad. If you can't introduce them all at
> the same time, then do it in order of smallest/weakest/least territorial
> to largest/strongest/most territorial added at night.
>
> That's what works for me (but I do usually use quarantine tanks). However
> there are lots of different ways to do it, as you will soon hear about.
> Also your source of fish can be friends, clubs and online purchasing, all
> of which would probably result in healthier fish to start with.
>
> ps: from concept to completion, my bigger tanks take about 3 months, so
> you might be planning this just right.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

[NetMax]

mid-posted..

"Clint" > wrote in message
news:lSHxe.89673$HI.29422@edtnps84...
> Thanks for the input. I'm also debating (internally) New World vs.
> African cichlids. The LFS has some nice little blue Jack Dempsey's (at
> $37 CDN a pop!), some Salvini's, and I've always been partial to
> Firemouths. I had a breeding pair of Salvini's at one point, but I
> re-introduced the female to the male too soon after the second batch of
> babies, and that didn't go so well. A breeding pair of the JD's would
> be cool, although they'd probably end up the only inhabitants of the
> tank unless I rigged up a divider, I think.

If going for JDs, Firemouths or Salvini, then the rocks are much larger,
and perhaps less of a mock up is needed. With mbuna, I like to fill the
tank, to about an inch or two from the surface. With larger cichlids, I
wouldn't trust them with that much weight that high up ;~)

> Ah, well, I've got time... :) BTW, what do you use for liquid ammonia?
> I imagine it has to be fairly pure, with no funkiness to improve the
> cleaning or smell.

AMEX clear ammonia, no foam perfumes dye or phosphates (that's what the
bottle says). I think I got it at Wal-Mart.

<snip>
>
> BTW, I read some of your other posts about hoarding filters. :) If you
> stumble across an extra canister filter suitable for an 80 gallon tank,
> care to drop me a note? I've got a bid in on a Fluval 404 right now,
> but you never know how that's going to go. You're up here in Canada,
> right?

Ottawa, but getting me to part with a filter might be too much work ;~).
Fluvals go on sale twice a year at SuperPets, and Big Al's is great for
Marineland products on boxing week, but buying on-line or through bids
might be the best way.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> Clint
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Clint" > wrote in message
>> news:QjExe.89629$HI.12050@edtnps84...
> <initial blurb filtered...>
<initial response snipped>