What to do with fish?

[Pedro]

I am soon traveling to get married and honeymoon. I will be out around 2
weeks. I have a 58G tank which has bolivian rams as the main attractions.
If I am unable to find a friend to come everyday and feed them, what do you
suggest I do for feeding?

Thanks

[Billy]

"Pedro" > wrote in message
.. .
>I am soon traveling to get married and honeymoon. I will be out
>around 2 weeks. I have a 58G tank which has bolivian rams as the
>main attractions.
> If I am unable to find a friend to come everyday and feed them,
> what do you suggest I do for feeding?


For 2 weeks, shake down every friend you've got, pull in all the
favors. I'd next ask at an LFS you've got good relations with if you
can leave some fish with them. I have cultivated such relaitionships
with a couple good LFS's for just such occasions. That not
withstanding, I would do the following:

1: Top off the water as much as possible if you do not have an
auto-top-off system in place. 2 weeks is a lot of evaporation
depending on the humidity in your area.
2: Get timers on the lights.
3: Get a battery backup airpump, and put an air stone deep in the
tank in case the power goes out. It will keep the water moving a bit,
and maintain gas exchange in the event of a power outage. These can
be found for 10 USD or less.
4: Get an automatic feeder. Some of them hold enough food for 2
weeks, but I'd set it to feed lightly for 2 reasons: first, less food
equals less waste, water quality will stay higher in your absence,
second, less chance of it running out after a week, and risk losing
some fish to starvation or aggression due to being hungry.

One thing I did once was set a small refugium (really a hang-on-tank
quarantine box) up in the tank, and threw some hornwort in there. It
grows like a weed, which it is. <g> The tinfoils I had couldn't get
to it to tear it up, so it grew like mad while I was gone, keeping
nitrates down since I wasn't around to do my usual frequent water
changes. It was packed in there solid by he time I returned, and just
threw it in the wastecan. The nitrates had still risen to nearly 70,
but being tinfoils, I doubt they noticed, filthy creatures. <g>

One note, you only need someone to come by every third day or so.
Fish can go nearly a week without food without suffering ill effects.
(most fish, mind you) Taper off feeding in the days leading up to the
abcense to minimize the shock. Have pre-measured baggies with dates
on them. Have a pre-treated jug of water for top offs, and a line on
the tank in grease pencil for water level. I had to do this once for
my sister-in-law, who knew nothing about fish. It was idiot-proof,
and she's an idiot. LOL
Worked like a charm. All she had to do was grab the bag with the
right date, dump it in the tank, and pour in some water.

HTH

billy

[Lisa]

There are many pet-sitting services around. If no friends or relatives
can come over, I would line up something through one of these
businesses. Just be sure to list everything (in writing) that they
should do, outline the schedule, etc., in writing to avoid confusion.

- Lisa

[Daniel Morrow]

"Pedro" > wrote in message
.. .
> I am soon traveling to get married and honeymoon. I will be out around 2
> weeks. I have a 58G tank which has bolivian rams as the main attractions.
> If I am unable to find a friend to come everyday and feed them, what do
you
> suggest I do for feeding?
>
> Thanks
>
>

Go with what billy and lisa say but in an emergency you could dump in some
self dissolving food blocks which are pretty easy to get generally. Good
luck and later!

[Elaine T]

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> "Pedro" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>I am soon traveling to get married and honeymoon. I will be out around 2
>>weeks. I have a 58G tank which has bolivian rams as the main attractions.
>>If I am unable to find a friend to come everyday and feed them, what do
>
> you
>
>>suggest I do for feeding?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>
>
> Go with what billy and lisa say but in an emergency you could dump in some
> self dissolving food blocks which are pretty easy to get generally. Good
> luck and later!
>
>
Ack! Those food blocks will kill fish far faster than letting them go
hungry. They foul the water terribly.

Feed rich conditioning foods and live foods for a couple weeks as others
have said to "fatten" your fish up. Then you only need a friend or
neighbor to come a couple of times a week to feed.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Derek Benson]

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 04:13:26 GMT, "Pedro"
> wrote:

>I am soon traveling to get married and honeymoon. I will be out around 2
>weeks. I have a 58G tank which has bolivian rams as the main attractions.
>If I am unable to find a friend to come everyday and feed them, what do you
>suggest I do for feeding?
>
>Thanks
>
I would leave them alone for two weeks, without food. They'll be fine,
none of them will starve.

-Derek

[NetMax]

"Derek Benson" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 04:13:26 GMT, "Pedro"
> > wrote:
>
>>I am soon traveling to get married and honeymoon. I will be out around
>>2
>>weeks. I have a 58G tank which has bolivian rams as the main
>>attractions.
>>If I am unable to find a friend to come everyday and feed them, what do
>>you
>>suggest I do for feeding?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
> I would leave them alone for two weeks, without food. They'll be fine,
> none of them will starve.
>
> -Derek


Their ability to go without food varies tremendously by species. Very
active fish (ie: danio) will suffer much earlier than very sedate fish
(ie: pleco). Also carnivores suffer earlier than omnivores, and
herbivores generally can go the longest (for obvious reasons of having
some vegetation or algae to chew on). Mass also affects how well they
weather a fast (ie: Oto vs Gourami).

Bolivian Rams are mostly carnivorous, small and relatively active, so I
would not trust them without food longer than 3-4 days.
jmo
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Derek Benson]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 23:21:38 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>Bolivian Rams are mostly carnivorous, small and relatively active, so I
>would not trust them without food longer than 3-4 days.
>jmo

There is no fish species on planet Earth whose members would die of
starvation because of 3-4 days without food, or starve shortly after
this 3-4 day period.

-Derek

[NetMax]

"Derek Benson" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 23:21:38 -0400, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>
>>Bolivian Rams are mostly carnivorous, small and relatively active, so I
>>would not trust them without food longer than 3-4 days.
>>jmo
>
> There is no fish species on planet Earth whose members would die of
> starvation because of 3-4 days without food, or starve shortly after
> this 3-4 day period.
>
> -Derek

Nor would you die after only 3-4 days, but like the fish, you wouldn't be
feeling very well. Weakened fish are more prone to disease, and anything
being carried (ie: TB) will tend to manifest itself when the fish are
weakened.

I don't like to predict how long it takes for a fish to starve as there
is always someone who will try it. It's more responsible (imo) to safely
estimate how long different fish can go without food, without coming to
any harm.

This is why I used the word 'suffer' instead of 'death' in my earlier
reply. I'm sorry if my meaning was not clear enough for you.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Papa Red]

First off, I don't know who this "Derek Benson" is, because I don't
post in this group all that often,...But anyone who feels so little for
the suffering of the creatures in his care, as his statement clearly
illustrates, shouldn't have any creatures in his care at all,...
And as far as the stuff called, "Vacation Food", for when one goes
off on holiday,... Not only does it do things like foul up the water, et
cetera,...if it contains calcium sulfate,...it means that it contains
plaster of paris, a known carcinogen. You can also find this damn stuff
in things that people put in their pet bird's cages as well. Pax
Vobiscum,...~Dean.

[Rocco Moretti]

Papa Red wrote:
> .if it contains calcium sulfate,...it means that it contains
> plaster of paris, a known carcinogen.

Calcium Sulfate is a known carcinogen? Please reveal your sources.
The MSDS for Calcium Sulfate (and for "Plaster of Paris") I found says
nothing about carcigonicity or toxicity.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/d8904.htm
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c0499.htm

The only hazards listed are that it is hydroscopic (absorbs moisture),
and may "set" in the digestive track if swallowed.

It's good that it is non-toxic, because plenty of people with hard water
(calcium) dose their planted tanks with potassium sulfate. (Thus forming
calcium sulfate).

[Derek Benson]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:01:02 -0400, (Papa Red) wrote:

> First off, I don't know who this "Derek Benson" is, because I don't
>post in this group all that often,...But anyone who feels so little for
>the suffering of the creatures in his care, as his statement clearly
>illustrates, shouldn't have any creatures in his care at all,...

First off, you might want to extricate your head from your ass. After
that, you can go to google.com and take the search on Groups up at the
top, to search not on the Net but on newsgroups. Google took over the
Usenet archive from Deja.com, previously Dejanews. So you type in my
name, and then you can read through the hundreds and hundreds of
messages I've posted to the aquaria newsgroups throughout the years.
Then you'll know more about what I think about tropical fish anyway,
even though you still won't really know "who I am". I might also
comment that you're using the name Papa Red. So your mom and dad gave
you the name Papa, did they? And your last name is Red? My point in
asking is that you're using a false name, so no one can possibly know
who you may be, whereas I at least use my real name, so people could
actually find out more or less who I am if they were interested,
simply by searching on the Net; or at least find a specific activity
I've been involved in during recent years.

Concerning fish suffering because of lack of food, the way it works
with fish is this:

If a fish doesn't find any food for a while, and I think this period
of time is fairly short, like 24 or 48 hours or somewhere around
there, the fish's digestive process stops, and the fish lives off the
fats built up on its body. This is similar to a bear going into
hybernation. So fish don't starve to death or suffer in any way
because of 3-4 days or a week or two without food. There are fish in
northern climes living in lakes and the lakes ice over during the
winter. I don't think these fish are finding much food, and their
activity level declines, I believe. They just lay there towards the
bottom and don't do much; almost in a state of hybernation; living off
the fat they've built up during the spring and summer pigging out on
all the bugs.

Because of this condition with the digestive system in fish, it's
actually not a very good idea for people going on vacation to ask a
friend to feed their fish, and decide that twice a week or once a week
is fine, then the fish will get some food while I'm away. What happens
then is that the digestive system stops, then starts again when the
fish gets some food on that one day, then stops again, then starts
again, etc. It's better for the fish to go the whole 2 weeks or 3
weeks or whatever without food at all, than to be fed twice weekly
during that period of time.

I will also mention the following: A person named Dick, and I don't
know who this Dick is, but I can make a reasonable judgement
concerning the guy based upon what he writes to others, has mentioned
a couple times a favorite Angelfish, which fish stopped eating for a
month. After that period of time the fish simply started eating again.
According to you and others who agree more or less with your view,
this fish is dead. The fish can't possibly survive this month in
"suffering", if it doesn't die of starvation then it is "suffering" in
physical pain or something and would die of a stress or suffering
related disease. If fish go a few weeks or longer without food, I
don't think they feel any physical "suffering" whatsoever. Probably
not any psychological or emotional suffering either.

-Derek

[Elaine T]

Rocco Moretti wrote:
> Papa Red wrote:
>
>> .if it contains calcium sulfate,...it means that it contains
>> plaster of paris, a known carcinogen.
>
>
> Calcium Sulfate is a known carcinogen? Please reveal your sources.
> The MSDS for Calcium Sulfate (and for "Plaster of Paris") I found says
> nothing about carcigonicity or toxicity.
>
> http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/d8904.htm
> http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c0499.htm
>
> The only hazards listed are that it is hydroscopic (absorbs moisture),
> and may "set" in the digestive track if swallowed.
>
> It's good that it is non-toxic, because plenty of people with hard water
> (calcium) dose their planted tanks with potassium sulfate. (Thus forming
> calcium sulfate).

Reagent grade calcium sulfate is fine. However, according to SciFinder,
sometimes calcuim sulfate hemihydrate (gypsum or Plaster of Paris)
contains trace crystalline silicate. Many of the MSDS sheets for
"Plaster of Paris" list the amount of silcate in the product. Finely
pulverized crystalline silicate is dangerous if inhaled, causing lung
silicosis and possibly cancer with long term exposure.

I doubt it would be dangerous to fish as silcates (sand) are not soluble
and would be caught in the filter. Aquarium hobbyists generally don't
handle enough of any bulk chemical to be in any danger either.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[NetMax]

"Derek Benson" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:01:02 -0400, (Papa Red) wrote:
>
>> First off, I don't know who this "Derek Benson" is, because I don't
>>post in this group all that often,...But anyone who feels so little for
>>the suffering of the creatures in his care, as his statement clearly
>>illustrates, shouldn't have any creatures in his care at all,...
>
> First off, you might want to extricate your head from your ass. After
> that, you can go to google.com and take the search on Groups up at the
> top, to search not on the Net but on newsgroups. Google took over the
> Usenet archive from Deja.com, previously Dejanews. So you type in my
> name, and then you can read through the hundreds and hundreds of
> messages I've posted to the aquaria newsgroups throughout the years.
> Then you'll know more about what I think about tropical fish anyway,
> even though you still won't really know "who I am". I might also
> comment that you're using the name Papa Red. So your mom and dad gave
> you the name Papa, did they? And your last name is Red? My point in
> asking is that you're using a false name, so no one can possibly know
> who you may be, whereas I at least use my real name, so people could
> actually find out more or less who I am if they were interested,
> simply by searching on the Net; or at least find a specific activity
> I've been involved in during recent years.
>
> Concerning fish suffering because of lack of food, the way it works
> with fish is this:
>
> If a fish doesn't find any food for a while, and I think this period
> of time is fairly short, like 24 or 48 hours or somewhere around
> there, the fish's digestive process stops, and the fish lives off the
> fats built up on its body. This is similar to a bear going into
> hybernation. So fish don't starve to death or suffer in any way
> because of 3-4 days or a week or two without food. There are fish in
> northern climes living in lakes and the lakes ice over during the
> winter. I don't think these fish are finding much food, and their
> activity level declines, I believe. They just lay there towards the
> bottom and don't do much; almost in a state of hybernation; living off
> the fat they've built up during the spring and summer pigging out on
> all the bugs.
>
> Because of this condition with the digestive system in fish, it's
> actually not a very good idea for people going on vacation to ask a
> friend to feed their fish, and decide that twice a week or once a week
> is fine, then the fish will get some food while I'm away. What happens
> then is that the digestive system stops, then starts again when the
> fish gets some food on that one day, then stops again, then starts
> again, etc. It's better for the fish to go the whole 2 weeks or 3
> weeks or whatever without food at all, than to be fed twice weekly
> during that period of time.
>
> I will also mention the following: A person named Dick, and I don't
> know who this Dick is, but I can make a reasonable judgement
> concerning the guy based upon what he writes to others, has mentioned
> a couple times a favorite Angelfish, which fish stopped eating for a
> month. After that period of time the fish simply started eating again.
> According to you and others who agree more or less with your view,
> this fish is dead. The fish can't possibly survive this month in
> "suffering", if it doesn't die of starvation then it is "suffering" in
> physical pain or something and would die of a stress or suffering
> related disease. If fish go a few weeks or longer without food, I
> don't think they feel any physical "suffering" whatsoever. Probably
> not any psychological or emotional suffering either.
>
> -Derek

I don't know what academic background even *exists* to support defining
what would or would not cause suffering in a fish, so I won't go there.
There has been plenty of 'pain' studies done, all blissfully inconclusive
in various degrees.

As for fish 'hibernating' at *tropical* temperatures, I'll leave that one
alone as well.

My comments are only from observations and experience. In the trade,
there is a good feel for what travel times are permissible and which
species are more sensitive than others. Death or injury from travel
includes various stressors including an empty stomach, though the lack of
food alone would certainly not kill them. In an ideal situation, the
time period without food can be significantly increased, but I won't
presume that someone has that ideal set-up running in their home.

Between vacation blocks and not feeding them for a weekend, I always tell
my customers to just not feed them. If it will be longer than 3-4 days,
I then inquire as to the species and size, as I feel that staying power
is related to that and water temperature and activity level (metabolic
rate). Note that small fish are more sensitive, and in the case of the
OP, his other fish are likely to be smaller than his Rams.

I've no interest in predicting the number of weeks till death (or pain,
discomfort, injury or whatever is chosen). Unfortunately I already have
more-than-sufficient experience to have a very good idea how long it
takes to die this way, so if there is any disagreement, it's only in how
far you're prepared to take other people's fish to that edge, and, that I
don't have the same depth of belief in that they don't suffer the
process. Scientifically, it would be easier to believe that they did
suffer, because if they didn't, it certainly wouldn't provide very much
incentive to eat, which would make a mess of evolutionary survival ;~).

Two weeks without food for Rams and tetras(?) is imho excessive,
regardless if they survived.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Papa Red]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:01:02 -0400, (Papa Red) wrote:
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0First off, I don't know who this "Derek Benson" is,
because I don't post in this group all that often,...But anyone who
feels so little for the suffering of the creatures in his care, as his
statement clearly illustrates, shouldn't have any creatures in his care
at all,...
.................................................. ............
First off, you might want to extricate your head from your ass. After
that, you can go to google.com and take the search on Groups up at the
top, to search not on the Net but on newsgroups. Google took over the
Usenet archive from Deja.com, previously Dejanews. So you type in my
name, and then you can read through the hundreds and hundreds of
messages I've posted to the aquaria newsgroups throughout the years.
Then you'll know more about what I think about tropical fish anyway,
even though you still won't really know "who I am". I might also comment
that you're using the name Papa Red. So your mom and dad gave you the
name Papa, did they? And your last name is Red? My point in asking is
that you're using a false name, so no one can possibly know who you may
be, whereas I at least use my real name, so people could actually find
out more or less who I am if they were interested, simply by searching
on the Net; or at least find a specific activity I've been involved in
during recent years.
Concerning fish suffering because of lack of food, the way it works with
fish is this:
If a fish doesn't find any food for a while, and I think this period of
time is fairly short, like 24 or 48 hours or somewhere around there, the
fish's digestive process stops, and the fish lives off the fats built up
on its body. This is similar to a bear going into hybernation. So fish
don't starve to death or suffer in any way because of 3-4 days or a week
or two without food. There are fish in northern climes living in lakes
and the lakes ice over during the winter. I don't think these fish are
finding much food, and their activity level declines, I believe. They
just lay there towards the bottom and don't do much; almost in a state
of hybernation; living off the fat they've built up during the spring
and summer pigging out on all the bugs.
Because of this condition with the digestive system in fish, it's
actually not a very good idea for people going on vacation to ask a
friend to feed their fish, and decide that twice a week or once a week
is fine, then the fish will get some food while I'm away. What happens
then is that the digestive system stops, then starts again when the fish
gets some food on that one day, then stops again, then starts again,
etc. It's better for the fish to go the whole 2 weeks or 3 weeks or
whatever without food at all, than to be fed twice weekly during that
period of time.
I will also mention the following: A person named Dick, and I don't know
who this Dick is, but I can make a reasonable judgement concerning the
guy based upon what he writes to others, has mentioned a couple times a
favorite Angelfish, which fish stopped eating for a month. After that
period of time the fish simply started eating again. According to you
and others who agree more or less with your view, this fish is dead. The
fish can't possibly survive this month in "suffering", if it doesn't die
of starvation then it is "suffering" in physical pain or something and
would die of a stress or suffering related disease. If fish go a few
weeks or longer without food, I don't think they feel any physical
"suffering" whatsoever. Probably not any psychological or emotional
suffering either.
-Derek
.................................................. .......
First off,...unlike what your words posted here in this newsgroup
indicate to me, I have always cared about the lives of any of the
critters in my care, be they the seven tanks of tropical freshwater
fish, some of which are like the 2 white mice, a tarantula, and a cat
who is 20 years old today, all of whom were going to be put down for
stupid reasons by their former humans,...Or the big cats, and other zoo
animals that I took care of as a zoo keeper, or those animals that I
cared for as a vet's assistant and nightman at an animal hospital.
And as as far as my internet name, "Papa Red", I was given that name
by one of the youngsters staying at the safehouse that I started and
ran, to help get the run-aways and throw-aways [kids whose parents have
ran away from them] off the streets of downtown Miami, Florida [U.S.A.],
and away from the drug dealers and pimps, after coming back from
volunteering for two tours in South East Asia, somewhat disenchanted in
what had transpired there.
Now it's your turn fella,...Why is it that your parents named you
after a structure that is utilized for bringing petro up out of the
earth, as in "oil derek"?<LOL>
Pax Vobiscum,...~Dean.

[Derek Benson]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 20:40:18 -0400, (Papa Red) wrote:

> Now it's your turn fella,...Why is it that your parents named you
>after a structure that is utilized for bringing petro up out of the
>earth, as in "oil derek"?<LOL>
> Pax Vobiscum,...~Dean.

It's called an "oil derrick", completely different word, pronounced a
tad differently too. I mention this because some readers might not
know.

-Derek

[Derek Benson]

Oh, here's something you will want to know about me. Know what I do
when I find a spider in my house? I stomp on the ****er.

-Derek

[Daniel Morrow]

"Derek Benson" > wrote in message
...
> Oh, here's something you will want to know about me. Know what I do
> when I find a spider in my house? I stomp on the ****er.
>
> -Derek

I have to side with papa red on this bickering so far, unless papa red is a
fake user of this group. I used to be like derek when I was in grade school,
stomping on honey bees or any other living thing in my face because I was
stupid. I was stupid until I started growing intellectually in middle
school. The consensus of this group is that fish, no matter how small, feel
similar to how humans feel in certain situations and that fish feel pain
too. That goes against derek's beliefs and frankly when derek called dick a
wimp I was offended even if dick wasn't and I especially despised how derek
cloaked his reaction claiming he didn't really mean it when people
complained. Please, let's all chill out all right? I guess I can be a jerk
to bullies derek.

[Gill Passman]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Derek Benson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Oh, here's something you will want to know about me. Know what I do
> > when I find a spider in my house? I stomp on the ****er.
> >
> > -Derek
>
> I have to side with papa red on this bickering so far, unless papa red is
a
> fake user of this group. I used to be like derek when I was in grade
school,
> stomping on honey bees or any other living thing in my face because I was
> stupid. I was stupid until I started growing intellectually in middle
> school. The consensus of this group is that fish, no matter how small,
feel
> similar to how humans feel in certain situations and that fish feel pain
> too. That goes against derek's beliefs and frankly when derek called dick
a
> wimp I was offended even if dick wasn't and I especially despised how
derek
> cloaked his reaction claiming he didn't really mean it when people
> complained. Please, let's all chill out all right? I guess I can be a jerk
> to bullies derek.
>
>
Can we please call a halt to this bickering....please again.

I have a lot of respect for all of you and all of you have given very good
support and advice.....maybe we don't always agree with the advice given by
others but we all have the choice to ignore it and follow what we think is
right....

And yes, having followed this thread there are various arguements....I have
fish that never accept any added food and find their own from what is
available in the tank....goldfish/koi in ponds will hibernate and not eat
for months....small fish...like any other small animals have faster
metabolisms so therefore need to eat more frequently. I remember a vet
telling me that life cycles were dependant on the number of heart beats -
the smaller the animal the faster the heartbeat....the faster the metabolism
the more dependant on calories.....and the quicker they die. Hence the
lifecycle of a hamster or a guinea pig is less than that of a cat or dog or
indeed human.

I'm due to go on holiday in a couple of weeks and have thought about this in
depth...following a bad goldfish experience with slow release feed I would
never go that route....in order to prevent them being overfed my
instructions will be one small feed once a day (I normally feed them
twice)...this way they will get the nutrition they need without being
overfed...

Gill

[Robert Flory]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> There are many pet-sitting services around. If no friends or relatives
> can come over, I would line up something through one of these
> businesses. Just be sure to list everything (in writing) that they
> should do, outline the schedule, etc., in writing to avoid confusion.
>
> - Lisa
>
Don't use family .... one turned off the power, lost half my wife's
platys/guppies then the lights got turned on 24 hr a day .. one slimy mess
covering all the plants. lost another 30% before I got home.

It'll be weeks to get it back to a balanced situation. I was only gone 9
days.

If it'd been my angel tank ... heads would have rolled

Bob

[Derek Benson]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:42:04 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>"Derek Benson" > wrote in message
...
>> Oh, here's something you will want to know about me. Know what I do
>> when I find a spider in my house? I stomp on the ****er.
>>
>> -Derek
>
>I have to side with papa red on this bickering so far, unless papa red is a
>fake user of this group. I used to be like derek when I was in grade school,
>stomping on honey bees or any other living thing in my face because I was
>stupid. I was stupid until I started growing intellectually in middle
>school. The consensus of this group is that fish, no matter how small, feel
>similar to how humans feel in certain situations and that fish feel pain
>too. That goes against derek's beliefs and frankly when derek called dick a
>wimp I was offended even if dick wasn't and I especially despised how derek
>cloaked his reaction claiming he didn't really mean it when people
>complained. Please, let's all chill out all right? I guess I can be a jerk
>to bullies derek.
>
I was never so stupid as to stomp on honey bees or any other living
thing when I was a kid. Spiders in my home are fair game, spiders
outside are perfectly OK and are left alone. Bees, bumblebees, wasps,
even flies: if these come in my home I shoo them out a window.
Mosquitos and gnats are fair game even if one is outside though, smash
them if they land on me anyway.

Learn to read when you were in school, did you? What I wrote to Dick
was intended as humor.

-Derek