Substrate and lots of other questions on a new tank

[Paul Vincent Craven]

I've got a new 75 gallon tank. I want to have it house the following
fish:
Blue spotted puffer
Porcupine puffer
Blue tang
Blue damsel
Clownfish

These fish are in established tanks. One 10 gallon and one 55 gallon.
They have run over a year with no readings for nitrate, nitrite, and
ammonia.

I want to do filtration with a 20L gallon sump set up as a refugium
under the 75 gallon tank. I'm thinking a couple dividers in the tank,
with live sand, live rock, macroalgae, and an air-stone in the
refugium. A protein skimmer would be in the return portion of the
sump.

Here are my questions:

Do I need a wet/dry portion of the filter? Or can I skip the bioballs
with a refugium?

Does the refugium need snails and hermit crabs, or does that defeat
the purpose of it?

Is it better the cycle the refugium lighting, or can it be left on all
the time to promote more plant growth?

What should I use for substrate in the top tank? I'd like to use sand
or even live sand. Will that be too hard to keep clean? Should I stick
with something coarser grained? I've only used crushed coral so far.

Can jawfish be mixed with tangs and puffers?

Is live rock enough? Or does buying live sand give you creatures you
don't get with live rock?

Will I have a parasite problem buying live sand?

Does that ‘live sand' or ‘bio-active sand' sold in stores actually
maintain life that long sitting in a packaged bag? I think I'd be
better off buying live sand and having it shipped direct.

How much live sand do I need to get started?

Does an RO filter do everything I need, or does RO/DI provide an
actual advantage?

If I buy an RO/DI filter, how fast does the water come out of it? Is
it a trickle, or will it not take that long to actually fill the tank?

How does one move a larger-sized puffer fish? I'm thinking a net is
out of the question. Just use a large plastic bag?

Thanks,

Paul Vincent Craven

http://www.cravenfamily.com

[Todd Nicholson]

Paul-

> Do I need a wet/dry portion of the filter? Or can I skip the bioballs
> with a refugium?

Yes. Don't use a wet/dry filter with bioballs. The live rock will take
care of the bacteria for you and bioballs will only be a nitrate magnet.
The idea is to keep nitrates at or near zero for a reef setup.

>
> Does the refugium need snails and hermit crabs, or does that defeat
> the purpose of it?

You can put snails and crabs in to help eat detritus. This is also a good
place to put problem animals if they appear.
>
> Is it better the cycle the refugium lighting, or can it be left on all
> the time to promote more plant growth?

It can be left on 24hours or you can cycle it opposite your main tank
lighting. I think most people leave it on 24/7, especially if they have
species that need a lot of harvested algae - like tangs.
>
> What should I use for substrate in the top tank? I'd like to use sand
> or even live sand. Will that be too hard to keep clean? Should I stick
> with something coarser grained? I've only used crushed coral so far.

You should use sugar-sized grain sand. This is much better than CC and is
easier to keep clean as you don't have to vacuum it. Your crabs, snails and
other cleanup crew will do that for you.
>
> Can jawfish be mixed with tangs and puffers?

Not sure. Someone else will chime in.
>
> Is live rock enough? Or does buying live sand give you creatures you
> don't get with live rock?

Start with live rock (approximately 70 - 85 pounds) and aragonite sand.
Most people then add a few handfuls of "live sand" from an established tank
to "seed" the new sand.
>
> Will I have a parasite problem buying live sand?

No.
>
> Does that 'live sand' or 'bio-active sand' sold in stores actually
> maintain life that long sitting in a packaged bag? I think I'd be
> better off buying live sand and having it shipped direct.

I'd suggest just using aragonite sand or "Southdown Tropical Play Sand" is
popular, then "seeding" it will a few handfuls of live sand from your local
fish store.
>
> How much live sand do I need to get started?

A couple handfuls.
>
> Does an RO filter do everything I need, or does RO/DI provide an
> actual advantage?

RO works okay, but RO/DI is better. The water quality is better.
>
> If I buy an RO/DI filter, how fast does the water come out of it? Is
> it a trickle, or will it not take that long to actually fill the tank?

It takes a while to make RO/DI. Usually you want to make it and store it in
some jugs. I make mine and store it in a couple of 3 gallon water jugs. I
use this for evaporation replacement and water changes when necessary.
>
> How does one move a larger-sized puffer fish? I'm thinking a net is
> out of the question. Just use a large plastic bag?

Not sure. Carefully I would imagine:) Someone else should chime in about
this.

Good luck!

Todd

[Richard Reynolds]

as this wouldnt be a reef at best a FOWLR

> I've got a new 75 gallon tank. I want to have it house the following
> fish:
> Blue spotted puffer
> Porcupine puffer
> Blue tang
> Blue damsel
> Clownfish

see if you cant up that to 80 or 100 biger is better for moderate sized fish

> These fish are in established tanks. One 10 gallon and one 55 gallon.
> They have run over a year with no readings for nitrate, nitrite, and
> ammonia.

:)

> I want to do filtration with a 20L gallon sump set up as a refugium
> under the 75 gallon tank. I'm thinking a couple dividers in the tank,
> with live sand, live rock, macroalgae, and an air-stone in the
> refugium. A protein skimmer would be in the return portion of the
> sump.

sounds good, the air stone is a toss up depending on where you put it.

> Here are my questions:
>
> Do I need a wet/dry portion of the filter? Or can I skip the bioballs
> with a refugium?

go with bio balls, your puffers are nasty eaters, ammonia / nitrite KILLS nitrate wont.

> Does the refugium need snails and hermit crabs, or does that defeat
> the purpose of it?

crabs are bad, detritus eating snails are a good thing.

> Is it better the cycle the refugium lighting, or can it be left on all
> the time to promote more plant growth?

it depends on which algae you get, for the best growth 16hrs on 8 hrs off is the best, BUT
some algaes can go sexual, in a tank thats very bad. the fix is to run the light 24/7 and
live with the small decrease in growth

> What should I use for substrate in the top tank? I'd like to use sand
> or even live sand. Will that be too hard to keep clean? Should I stick
> with something coarser grained? I've only used crushed coral so far.

it would be best to mix CC and sand skip the live sand.

> Can jawfish be mixed with tangs and puffers?

yep

> Is live rock enough? Or does buying live sand give you creatures you
> don't get with live rock?

depends on where you get the sand read further

> Will I have a parasite problem buying live sand?

no

> Does that 'live sand' or 'bio-active sand' sold in stores actually
> maintain life that long sitting in a packaged bag? I think I'd be
> better off buying live sand and having it shipped direct.

depends on where you get the 'live sand' skip bio active sand its not worth it. if you get
your live sand from a good place or another reefer it will have plenty of life to add to
your refugium where you want the LS, good LR will also allow you to seed your own dry sand
and make good LS

> How much live sand do I need to get started?

you wont _need_ any but you will probibly want some but not much < 5lbs

> Does an RO filter do everything I need, or does RO/DI provide an
> actual advantage?

for a FO a RO is good enough

> If I buy an RO/DI filter, how fast does the water come out of it? Is
> it a trickle, or will it not take that long to actually fill the tank?

depends on the unit you can get them in 10(gallons per day)gpd versions or 1000gpd
versions, aim for 100gpd

> How does one move a larger-sized puffer fish? I'm thinking a net is
> out of the question. Just use a large plastic bag?

petco/petsmart sell these critter keepers the large ones work nice at moving things that
are not net friendly

> Thanks,
>
> Paul Vincent Craven
>
> http://www.cravenfamily.com


--
Richard Reynolds

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Paul,

Read below....

Paul Vincent Craven wrote:

> I want to do filtration with a 20L gallon sump set up as a refugium
> under the 75 gallon tank. I'm thinking a couple dividers in the tank,
> with live sand, live rock, macroalgae, and an air-stone in the
> refugium. A protein skimmer would be in the return portion of the
> sump.

You want the protein skimmer in the entering part of your sump, not the part
after the refugium. Otherwise you'll skim out the critters you are raising, a
potential food source for some fish or invertebrates.

> Here are my questions:
>
> Do I need a wet/dry portion of the filter? Or can I skip the bioballs
> with a refugium?

No, use LR rubble pieces instead, to break up the bubbles in the first section
of your sump.

> Does the refugium need snails and hermit crabs, or does that defeat
> the purpose of it?

Yes. Snails mostly, but a few hermits will stir your sand nicely.

> Is it better the cycle the refugium lighting, or can it be left on all
> the time to promote more plant growth?

24 hours a day is what I do.

> What should I use for substrate in the top tank? I'd like to use sand
> or even live sand. Will that be too hard to keep clean? Should I stick
> with something coarser grained? I've only used crushed coral so far.

If you use CC you'll need to vacuum it in a tank with that many fish, because
they'll produce a lot of waste.
Sand seeded with LS would be good, but you'll need something to stir your sand,
like a Fighting Conch or Queen Conch perhaps. I *think* it will be fine with
the fish you have.

> Can jawfish be mixed with tangs and puffers?

Yes, but it will screw up your aquascaping quite a bit until the darn thing is
happy. I wouldn't get one. (See any of my other posts abhoring these beasts.)

> Is live rock enough? Or does buying live sand give you creatures you
> don't get with live rock?

LR is good for filtration, but also for shelter and hiding places for your
fish. They are REEF FISH and are used to that type of environment. Putting
them in a glass box with invisible walls is not normal, but having LR there
gives them some semblance of home.

LS is another beneficial way to keep nitrates down, which you will indeed have
in a tank filled with fish.

> Will I have a parasite problem buying live sand?

Not typically. Just look for flatworms in the sand. If you don't see any, or
on your LR, you'll be fine. Flatworms are small brown dots that look 2
dimensional, shaped like a sesame seed. Brown/Red ones are the ones to worry
about.

> Does that ‘live sand' or ‘bio-active sand' sold in stores actually
> maintain life that long sitting in a packaged bag? I think I'd be
> better off buying live sand and having it shipped direct.

The bagged stuff is pretty much overpriced sand imho. Better to get one or two
cups worth from an active display tank or refugium at the LFS or local reefer.
Or from one of your current tanks, of course.

> How much live sand do I need to get started?

Not more than a ziplock bag worth, for the tank size you described.

> Does an RO filter do everything I need, or does RO/DI provide an
> actual advantage?

RO water is pretty clean, but RO/DI is pure. Pure water is less likely to grow
nuisance algae, and you don't have to worry about dechlorinators etc.

> If I buy an RO/DI filter, how fast does the water come out of it? Is
> it a trickle, or will it not take that long to actually fill the tank?

A 100gpd unit (like the one I sell for $149) will produce 4.16g an hour. 100g
divided by 24 hours, with optimal conditions. It will take time to fill up your
tank from scratch.

> How does one move a larger-sized puffer fish? I'm thinking a net is
> out of the question. Just use a large plastic bag?

NO NET! Better to use a specimen box like the LFS use to catch fish, so if the
puffer inflates it can't snag on anything. Be gentle, and try not the
stress/scare it too much.

Make sure your water is the same in temp and salinity before moving your
livestock.

Marc


--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[CapFusion]

Catch the puffer in plastic bag with water.

CapFusion,...


> It takes a while to make RO/DI. Usually you want to make it and store it
in
> some jugs. I make mine and store it in a couple of 3 gallon water jugs.
I
> use this for evaporation replacement and water changes when necessary.
> >
> > How does one move a larger-sized puffer fish? I'm thinking a net is
> > out of the question. Just use a large plastic bag?
>
> Not sure. Carefully I would imagine:) Someone else should chime in about
> this.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Todd
>
>

[Paul Vincent Craven]

Marc Levenson > wrote in message >...

> You want the protein skimmer in the entering part of your sump, not the part
> after the refugium.

Thanks!

> No, use LR rubble pieces instead, to break up the bubbles in the first section
> of your sump.

I'll try that. It would be nice to get rid of the noise caused by the
water going over the bio-balls.

> Sand seeded with LS would be good, but you'll need something to stir your sand,
> like a Fighting Conch or Queen Conch perhaps. I *think* it will be fine with
> the fish you have.

Cool. I hadn't thought about using those. Any snail's I've put in the
tank with my puffers have disappeared rather quickly. My 10 gallon
tank holds bumblebee snails fine, but Astreas always die within a
couple days. I've wondered if there was some copper on the rock I
bought or something.

> Yes, but it will screw up your aquascaping quite a bit until the darn thing is
> happy. I wouldn't get one.

I'll take that into consideration. I'm not too much into aquascaping,
so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.

> Make sure your water is the same in temp and salinity before moving your
> livestock.

Thanks. I plan to take it slow and easy. (And start with the 'cheap'
fish.)

Paul Vincent Craven

http://www.cravenfamily.com

[Richard Reynolds]

> I'll try that. It would be nice to get rid of the noise caused by the
> water going over the bio-balls.

ill assume you have the bio balls, and they are cycled, keep them wet and feed them while
you try out LR pieces, you may need to put them back in.

>
> > Sand seeded with LS would be good, but you'll need something to stir your sand,
> > like a Fighting Conch or Queen Conch perhaps. I *think* it will be fine with
> > the fish you have.
>
> Cool. I hadn't thought about using those. Any snail's I've put in the
> tank with my puffers have disappeared rather quickly. My 10 gallon
> tank holds bumblebee snails fine, but Astreas always die within a
> couple days. I've wondered if there was some copper on the rock I
> bought or something.

as the question was refering to the display tank and puffers were on the list of fish,
snails wont work, they will be a fast meal to puffers, they live to dig snail out of a
sand bed :)

> I'll take that into consideration. I'm not too much into aquascaping,
> so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.

whats aquascaping in a FO ??? plus puffers will move rocks around a little to while they
dig for food.

> Paul Vincent Craven
>
> http://www.cravenfamily.com

--
Richard Reynolds

[Paul Vincent Craven]

"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message news:<OBZgb.48403$gv5.8025@fed1read05>...
> see if you cant up that to 80 or 100 biger is better for moderate sized fish

That would be nice, but I'm not willing to commit the time, space, and
money for that size tank right now. I picked up the 75 gallon used out
of the paper. Unfortunately I found that I'd spent way too much for
it. I'd looked at the larger acrylic tanks, but I hadn't seen too many
glass ones with an internal overflow. So I bought it before realizing
how cheap the glass ones were.

Thanks for your info. I'll keep close tabs on the tank readings and
see how things work.

Paul Vincent Craven

http://www.cravenfamily.com

[Richard Reynolds]

> That would be nice, but I'm not willing to commit the time, space, and
> money for that size tank right now. I picked up the 75 gallon used out
> of the paper. Unfortunately I found that I'd spent way too much for
> it. I'd looked at the larger acrylic tanks, but I hadn't seen too many
> glass ones with an internal overflow. So I bought it before realizing
> how cheap the glass ones were.

unfortunately that happens next time you will know :) there isnt much more time to
dedicate to a biger tank if you keep the bio laod the same, space you can get several
tanks that have the same footprint or close to the same, except for 1 dimention including
just height.

> Thanks for your info. I'll keep close tabs on the tank readings and
> see how things work.

:)

> Paul Vincent Craven

--
Richard Reynolds