HELP: Koi pond filtration ideas

[DC]

I've done some searching around and I've found various biological
filtration systems available and I was hoping for some recommendations
for a 1000 Gallon pond that WILL have a 1200-1800 GPH pump. It needs
to be external and small / and/or buriable. Preferrably one of the all
in one that's not heinously expensive. Probably looking at something
pressurized and either with a backflush mechanism or cleanable media.
(Preferrably backflush, for obvious reasons.)

Unfortunately, I don't have a bottom drain, so that's going to screw
with the asthetics as the pond is built up about 20" high around the
edges in a circle. (If anyone has any bright ideas on hiding all the
power / tubing, I'd love to hear that too. ;-)

Also looking for recommendations for on-line vendors, etc. I was
impressed with what PondPetsUSA.com has to offer, I was hoping to get
some more information before I leap off a cliff and buy the wrong
thing.

Any help you can lend would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

DC

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Lots of us have gone for veggie filters. Have you the room to put one
or more in? Ours on the berm have bottom drains. Easy flush...open a
2" port. You could put a submersible on the bottom of your pond and
push the water up a pipe to a berm and falls. You could pretty much
hide the pipe by letting algae grow on it. We have no mechanical
filtration beyond the roots of many plants. If you could lay a veggie
filter alongside your pond, it would look like a grass bed...20" up as well.

People have gone to burried barrels...lots of hassle cleaning.

I wish I had a really good idea for you. Maybe someone else will.

Jim

DC wrote:
> I've done some searching around and I've found various biological
> filtration systems available and I was hoping for some recommendations
> for a 1000 Gallon pond that WILL have a 1200-1800 GPH pump. It needs
> to be external and small / and/or buriable. Preferrably one of the all
> in one that's not heinously expensive. Probably looking at something
> pressurized and either with a backflush mechanism or cleanable media.
> (Preferrably backflush, for obvious reasons.)
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have a bottom drain, so that's going to screw
> with the asthetics as the pond is built up about 20" high around the
> edges in a circle. (If anyone has any bright ideas on hiding all the
> power / tubing, I'd love to hear that too. ;-)
>
> Also looking for recommendations for on-line vendors, etc. I was
> impressed with what PondPetsUSA.com has to offer, I was hoping to get
> some more information before I leap off a cliff and buy the wrong
> thing.
>
> Any help you can lend would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> DC
>

[RichToyBox]

Buyer beware. Pond filters are notoriously over rated. They will usually
take care of a pond that is half as big as they say, and that is if you
don't overstock too much. I would get a filter rated for at least 2000-3000
gallons, if I bought one of the commercial filters. Jim and Phyllis
described the veggie filter, and it needs to be at least 10% of the surface
area of the pond or larger. Larger is better. Gives slower flow rates,
better cleaning, and more room for more plants.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"DC" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I've done some searching around and I've found various biological
> filtration systems available and I was hoping for some recommendations
> for a 1000 Gallon pond that WILL have a 1200-1800 GPH pump. It needs
> to be external and small / and/or buriable. Preferrably one of the all
> in one that's not heinously expensive. Probably looking at something
> pressurized and either with a backflush mechanism or cleanable media.
> (Preferrably backflush, for obvious reasons.)
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have a bottom drain, so that's going to screw
> with the asthetics as the pond is built up about 20" high around the
> edges in a circle. (If anyone has any bright ideas on hiding all the
> power / tubing, I'd love to hear that too. ;-)
>
> Also looking for recommendations for on-line vendors, etc. I was
> impressed with what PondPetsUSA.com has to offer, I was hoping to get
> some more information before I leap off a cliff and buy the wrong
> thing.
>
> Any help you can lend would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> DC
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>Lots of us have gone for veggie filters. Have you the room to put one
>or more in? Ours on the berm have bottom drains. Easy flush...open a
>2" port. You could put a submersible on the bottom of your pond and
>push the water up a pipe to a berm and falls. You could pretty much
>hide the pipe by letting algae grow on it. We have no mechanical
>filtration beyond the roots of many plants. If you could lay a veggie
>filter alongside your pond, it would look like a grass bed...20" up as well.
>
>People have gone to burried barrels...lots of hassle cleaning.

First off, I agree the veggie filter is a good way to go, but hey, if you
don't have a barrel system, no put downs please. ;o)

I clean my pre-filter only 3-4 times/season and it only takes 45 minutes,
the bio-chambers I clean once/year (and one of them runs all year around).
When I took it apart just a few days ago, it really didn't appear to need
cleaning, but we did it anyway. *My Filter* www.jjspond.us

Currently the lids for my system should come next week, I'm excited.

Now if money (and space) were no object I'd tell the OP to look into a
Vortex filters, imo. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Richard Holub]

Hint...

Bestnest.com and azponds.com...Also check on the SKIPPY filter.

I just built one and it works great.

Rich

"DC" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I've done some searching around and I've found various biological
> filtration systems available and I was hoping for some recommendations
> for a 1000 Gallon pond that WILL have a 1200-1800 GPH pump. It needs
> to be external and small / and/or buriable. Preferrably one of the all
> in one that's not heinously expensive. Probably looking at something
> pressurized and either with a backflush mechanism or cleanable media.
> (Preferrably backflush, for obvious reasons.)
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have a bottom drain, so that's going to screw
> with the asthetics as the pond is built up about 20" high around the
> edges in a circle. (If anyone has any bright ideas on hiding all the
> power / tubing, I'd love to hear that too. ;-)
>
> Also looking for recommendations for on-line vendors, etc. I was
> impressed with what PondPetsUSA.com has to offer, I was hoping to get
> some more information before I leap off a cliff and buy the wrong
> thing.
>
> Any help you can lend would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> DC
>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Hi Jan,

I don't mean to put down your barrels. As I remember it, they were out
of the ground. DC was talking about in-ground or easily hidden filters.

As I see it, buried barrels at ground level would be a lot of hassle to
clean! That was my reference.

Jim

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
>>Lots of us have gone for veggie filters. Have you the room to put one
>>or more in? Ours on the berm have bottom drains. Easy flush...open a
>>2" port. You could put a submersible on the bottom of your pond and
>>push the water up a pipe to a berm and falls. You could pretty much
>>hide the pipe by letting algae grow on it. We have no mechanical
>>filtration beyond the roots of many plants. If you could lay a veggie
>>filter alongside your pond, it would look like a grass bed...20" up as well.
>>
>>People have gone to burried barrels...lots of hassle cleaning.
>
>
> First off, I agree the veggie filter is a good way to go, but hey, if you
> don't have a barrel system, no put downs please. ;o)
>
> I clean my pre-filter only 3-4 times/season and it only takes 45 minutes,
> the bio-chambers I clean once/year (and one of them runs all year around).
> When I took it apart just a few days ago, it really didn't appear to need
> cleaning, but we did it anyway. *My Filter* www.jjspond.us
>
> Currently the lids for my system should come next week, I'm excited.
>
> Now if money (and space) were no object I'd tell the OP to look into a
> Vortex filters, imo. ~ jan
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[George]

"DC" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I've done some searching around and I've found various biological
> filtration systems available and I was hoping for some recommendations
> for a 1000 Gallon pond that WILL have a 1200-1800 GPH pump. It needs
> to be external and small / and/or buriable. Preferrably one of the all
> in one that's not heinously expensive. Probably looking at something
> pressurized and either with a backflush mechanism or cleanable media.
> (Preferrably backflush, for obvious reasons.)
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have a bottom drain, so that's going to screw
> with the asthetics as the pond is built up about 20" high around the
> edges in a circle. (If anyone has any bright ideas on hiding all the
> power / tubing, I'd love to hear that too. ;-)
>
> Also looking for recommendations for on-line vendors, etc. I was
> impressed with what PondPetsUSA.com has to offer, I was hoping to get
> some more information before I leap off a cliff and buy the wrong
> thing.
>
> Any help you can lend would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> DC

Take a look at my filtration system and see if this is what you are looking
for:

http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/filter.htm

This particular set up is internal, but could easily be converted to an
external system. In fact, it is based on an external system I built for my
sister a few years back. It is easy to build, and would save you a lot of
money.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:18:52 -0500, Phyllis and Jim Hurley
> wrote:

>Hi Jan,
>
>I don't mean to put down your barrels. As I remember it, they were out
>of the ground. DC was talking about in-ground or easily hidden filters.

Nope, they're buried, only 2" of rim is above ground, takes up 4X4 space,
but OP wouldn't need 4 barrels. I'm putting 2 on my 1,000 gallon lily pond
(when I can get the guys to move in that directions).

>As I see it, buried barrels at ground level would be a lot of hassle to
>clean! That was my reference.

Hmmmm, haven't read my website regarding this?

No hassle, I pull the screen door stuff out with a garden claw on a long
handle. Toss it on the lawn and spray it down. Drain the water out of the
barrel with an extra pump and suck the muck out of the bottom of the barrel
with a shop vac. The only thing easier would be to have a vortex, where I
could open the bottom drain that would drain the muck out. We poor folk do
what we can. ;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[JoeT]

I've run stream/waterfall and spillway bucket combos with vegitation for
years and they always did a great job of controlling all but the worst
string algae. They are however prone to some maintenance especially if you
don't install bottom drains! Lots of dredging muck etc. Also, water hyacinth
works wonderfully but has to be watched carefully. You can go to work one
day and come home to find an errant bit of it happily diverting water out of
the system lol. Due to back problems I had to do away with my stream and
buckets setup and opted for a self contained pressure filter and UV setup
rated at 2500 gal on what had now been reduced to about a 1450 gal pond. No
dice. Pure pea soup all this season, had to clean the thing at least weekly
(should/could have been daily).

Gave up on prefab, built the skippy using a 100 gal rubbermaid stock tank.
Didn't use the floor scrubbies ( no easy way to purchase the stuff from
them, I don't have the patience to do checks in the mail lol) but did use
tried and true washable 2" thick white matt media from Aquatic ecosystems
(approx 30 sq ft) and hooked it to the same 2000 gal/hr pump I'd been using.
Still have the 18w UV inline for now as well. In one week has gone from
solid green to gin clear. In all honesty I already knew the prefab wouldn't
cut it but I had to prove it to myself. If you add plants on top tho do be
aware that the roots can infiltrate your media. It aint always fun or easy
cleaning them out of there!

All in all if you can make 15 sq ft of space, build a 100 gal skippy and
make a nice falls around it, or a cedar box for that matter, heck you can
hide it many ways and pipe the water back! Mine still looks very utilitarian
but the water's the thing for me anyway lol. Total cost was about $170 for
me which is much less than the crappy overrated prefab it replaced!

One note, I did add a T with a stand pipe on the input to break syphon in
the event of power failure or when you just need to shut off the pump. This
not only prevents the filter contents from returning to the pond, it adds
air to the water column!

joe ( who used to be here alot long long ago.... lol )



"Richard Holub" > wrote in message
...
> Hint...
>
> Bestnest.com and azponds.com...Also check on the SKIPPY filter.
>
> I just built one and it works great.
>
> Rich
>
> "DC" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> I've done some searching around and I've found various biological
>> filtration systems available and I was hoping for some recommendations
>> for a 1000 Gallon pond that WILL have a 1200-1800 GPH pump. It needs
>> to be external and small / and/or buriable. Preferrably one of the all
>> in one that's not heinously expensive. Probably looking at something
>> pressurized and either with a backflush mechanism or cleanable media.
>> (Preferrably backflush, for obvious reasons.)
>>
>> Unfortunately, I don't have a bottom drain, so that's going to screw
>> with the asthetics as the pond is built up about 20" high around the
>> edges in a circle. (If anyone has any bright ideas on hiding all the
>> power / tubing, I'd love to hear that too. ;-)
>>
>> Also looking for recommendations for on-line vendors, etc. I was
>> impressed with what PondPetsUSA.com has to offer, I was hoping to get
>> some more information before I leap off a cliff and buy the wrong
>> thing.
>>
>> Any help you can lend would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> DC
>>
>
>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

I stand corrected. Your barrels are under the ground. The screen makes
good sense. You seem to have streamlined the de-mucking process well,
too.

I guess I still prefer the open-the-drain method of cleaning out the
muck. We just open the drain by turning a handle and watch the junk
exit. In the WH ponds, I have to pull out the dead WH after the water
has left. Once in a while, I have to pull it away from the drain as the
pond empties. I generally flush them with a hose to get the last stuff
out. Phyllis laughs when I do...so little left and soon to be replaced
by new muck.

Jim

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:18:52 -0500, Phyllis and Jim Hurley
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Jan,
>>
>>I don't mean to put down your barrels. As I remember it, they were out
>>of the ground. DC was talking about in-ground or easily hidden filters.
>
>
> Nope, they're buried, only 2" of rim is above ground, takes up 4X4 space,
> but OP wouldn't need 4 barrels. I'm putting 2 on my 1,000 gallon lily pond
> (when I can get the guys to move in that directions).
>
>
>>As I see it, buried barrels at ground level would be a lot of hassle to
>>clean! That was my reference.
>
>
> Hmmmm, haven't read my website regarding this?
>
> No hassle, I pull the screen door stuff out with a garden claw on a long
> handle. Toss it on the lawn and spray it down. Drain the water out of the
> barrel with an extra pump and suck the muck out of the bottom of the barrel
> with a shop vac. The only thing easier would be to have a vortex, where I
> could open the bottom drain that would drain the muck out. We poor folk do
> what we can. ;o) ~ jan
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[DC]

First off, G, there is a problem with your website. Try viewing it
from something other than your server (or develpment machine) and
you'll discover that there is a javascript call to a page that points
to 127.0.0.1 which is the internal loopback address of a PC. (So no
matter who visits it, it tries to look up pages on THEIR machine
instead of yours.)

Offending code: "<script language='javascript'
src='http://127.0.0.1:1025/js.cgi?pcaw&r=9514'></script>"

Cheers,

DC

[DC]

The main reason I'm not considering a Veggie filter is that I simply
don't have the room. I'll have to post a link to a couple of pictures
of the pond and related destru... construction.

I have serious questions about whether I'll even have room for the
70Gal Skippy (thanks for that recommendation RH and for BestNest...
good site I hadn't found). This is why I've been leaning towards
something along the Aqua Ultima II 1000 or 2000 (a little pricey but a
great formfactor) or the Cal Pump Torpedo Plus 2000 (probably more
maintenance, but need to get some user feedback.)

The other factor that I haven't mentioned previously is time. I've got
about 2 weeks. (Part of a larger, interdependent plan.)

[Wilmdale]

DC wrote:

>I've done some searching around and I've found various biological
>filtration systems available and I was hoping for some recommendations
>for a 1000 Gallon pond that WILL have a 1200-1800 GPH pump. It needs
>to be external and small / and/or buriable. Preferrably one of the all
>in one that's not heinously expensive. Probably looking at something
>pressurized and either with a backflush mechanism or cleanable media.
>(Preferrably backflush, for obvious reasons.)
>
>Unfortunately, I don't have a bottom drain, so that's going to screw
>with the asthetics as the pond is built up about 20" high around the
>edges in a circle. (If anyone has any bright ideas on hiding all the
>power / tubing, I'd love to hear that too. ;-)
>
>
I installed a couple of the vacuum bottom drains. If you use black ABS
pipe, it will hardly be noticeable. I use the white PVC and it is
covered with algae and not too offensive. This feeds bio and veggie
filters. You might be surprised and how efficient even a small veggie
or bio filter can be especially if you do not overload the eco system
with too many fish. What I have found is the more simple the set up,
the better it seems to work. Maintenance on my system is limited to
fall cleaning just before shut down and 'dusting off' before spring
start up. The plants will take care of a LOT of filtration for you.
Give it some more thought.
Success to you!
W. Dale

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>I guess I still prefer the open-the-drain method of cleaning out the
>muck.

Absolutely! If one can plumb it, that is a far, far better way to go.

My sister, who just put in a series of ponds (11,000 gallons her estimate)
thought she was going to use my filter configuration. I said no way, when
you've got the dough to go absolute low maintenance, spend it. None of us
is getting any younger. I took her out to a similar pond set up like she
wanted to do and the ponder demonstrated cleaning the vortex pre-filter.
Yuppers, they were sold.

I'm heading down there (UT from WA) week from Monday, and I am "EXCITED" to
say the least. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On 31 Jul 2005 10:08:39 -0700, "DC" > wrote:

>The main reason I'm not considering a Veggie filter is that I simply
>don't have the room. I'll have to post a link to a couple of pictures
>of the pond and related destru... construction.
>
>I have serious questions about whether I'll even have room for the
>70Gal Skippy (thanks for that recommendation RH and for BestNest...
>good site I hadn't found). This is why I've been leaning towards
>something along the Aqua Ultima II 1000 or 2000 (a little pricey but a
>great formfactor) or the Cal Pump Torpedo Plus 2000 (probably more
>maintenance, but need to get some user feedback.)
>
>The other factor that I haven't mentioned previously is time. I've got
>about 2 weeks. (Part of a larger, interdependent plan.)

Do you have a 2' X 4' area, and be able to dig down 2-3 feet, rims need to
be a tad higher that the highest level of the pond? Do the words "bulkhead
fittings" scare you? If you get all the parts together the filter can be
made in a few hours. Connecting it up, which you have to do with any
filtration system, probably more time. Silicone everything and 24-48 hours
cure time. 2 weeks? Plenty of time if you get all the parts order before
hand. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[George]

"DC" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> First off, G, there is a problem with your website. Try viewing it
> from something other than your server (or develpment machine) and
> you'll discover that there is a javascript call to a page that points
> to 127.0.0.1 which is the internal loopback address of a PC. (So no
> matter who visits it, it tries to look up pages on THEIR machine
> instead of yours.)
>
> Offending code: "<script language='javascript'
> src='http://127.0.0.1:1025/js.cgi?pcaw&r=9514'></script>"
>
> Cheers,
>
> DC

Hmmm. I don't know how that got in there. Others have used the web site
with no problems at all. I'll have to investigate this and get back to
you. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Carl Beyer]

I have a small pond with limited surroundings. I wanted to build a
veggie filter but that did not pan out.I use a skippy filter system that
works like a charm. There are some great ideas on how to plumb a bottom
sucking system if you do NOT put the pump in the water.

But, I also made a Fluidized Bed sand filter that then feeds a UV
filter... It runs 24/7.

I also have plants in the pond.

I am way over-stocked, and the pond is small, so I clean the skippy a
lot. The Fluidized I built by myself (also built the skippy as well)
Maybe 150 to 200 for the whole system (without pump).

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

[Courageous]

>I am way over-stocked, and the pond is small, so I clean the skippy a
>lot. The Fluidized I built by myself (also built the skippy as well)
>Maybe 150 to 200 for the whole system (without pump).

I find fluidized beds to be quite cool. If you made one yourself,
I can only assume that you are well aware you need to reseed the filter
with a bacterial culture if the filter is off for 30+ minutes or so for
any reason, yes?

The bacterial colony in a fluidized bed dies practically immediately
if the device stops. The same is not true for many other filter media,
as the gaps between the media hold oxygen bearing water which keep the
bacteria alive for more manageable times.

All that said, fluidized beds are spectacularly efficient at what they
do. Is there any filter as efficient for the size? Don't believe so...

C//

[Carl Beyer]

>
> I find fluidized beds to be quite cool. If you made one yourself,
> I can only assume that you are well aware you need to reseed the filter
> with a bacterial culture if the filter is off for 30+ minutes or so for
> any reason, yes?
>
> The bacterial colony in a fluidized bed dies practically immediately
> if the device stops. The same is not true for many other filter media,
> as the gaps between the media hold oxygen bearing water which keep the
> bacteria alive for more manageable times.
>
> All that said, fluidized beds are spectacularly efficient at what they
> do. Is there any filter as efficient for the size? Don't believe so...

I am not scientist. Hell, I am a crappy pond keeper compared to the
people in this group, But I have not had the bacteria issue you speak
of. I have had my system knocked out for a day because of power, and
other times from pump failure. I set up the filter with a back wash
valve (meaning water does not flow back into pond if pump goes offline).
Also, I have the top sealed airtight, so the bed will just sit in the
water... I have been told it will survive a week this way, but Like I
said I really don't know much more than the fact my numbers are solid.

The only real problem I have is that the pump is a bit strong and it
takes tweaking to get the sand to flow right. I replace the sand once a
year from the sand in my reef tank...

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

[Courageous]

>I am not scientist. Hell, I am a crappy pond keeper compared to the
>people in this group, But I have not had the bacteria issue you speak
>of.

How do you know? You shut down your filter, and cultured the
sand?

Anyway, your specific situation aside, here's a google for you:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fluidized+bed+filter+%22power+outage%22&btnG=Google+Search

I doubt very much indeed that the aerobic bacteria in your FB
will live more than an hour or so if you turn it off. Sources
I know and trust express the lifespan of the bacteria at this
point in "minutes".

I've read alot about FBs. But no knowledge is perfect. If you
happen to run across something that says different, I'll certainly
be interested in it...

C//

[Courageous]

>How do you know? You shut down your filter, and cultured the
>sand?

Reading my own comment, I'm realizing that this comment might
be viewed as sarcastic. Didn't mean it that way. :-)

C//

[Carl Beyer]

In article >,
Courageous > wrote:

> >How do you know? You shut down your filter, and cultured the
> >sand?
>
> Reading my own comment, I'm realizing that this comment might
> be viewed as sarcastic. Didn't mean it that way. :-)
>
> C//

Funny. I did take it as sarcastic. Glad you reposted. No, that is my
problem is that I am no expert, and I do not test the sand. Plus, I
have live plants in my pond so that must help my situation, along with
the skippy filter.

I know my water is in great shape. I have it tested often at the LFS.
And I know it is overstocked in a HUGE way.

I use coarser sand than what the "store bought" systems use (my reef
tank sand). Also the system is "homebuilt" Just peices of PVC glued
together.

When I first built this I was told that the bio would live for a day or
two if kept wet... As much I know and have researched. Will take a
look at the link you sent.

All the best

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

[Courageous]

>problem is that I am no expert, and I do not test the sand. Plus, I
>have live plants in my pond so that must help my situation, along with
>the skippy filter.

I agree. They likely mask what happens. Finally, the f-bed perhaps
repopulates with aerobes pretty quickly after it shuts down. Perhaps
for your situation, this is good enough.

>I know my water is in great shape. I have it tested often at the LFS.
>And I know it is overstocked in a HUGE way.

Intelligent pond management is what allows us to stock above nature's
levels. If you think your pond is overstocked, you should check out
intensive aquaculture facilities...

Anyway, if you happen to find anything definitive that states that
the aerobes in a fluidized bed have lifespans into days when the
device is shutdown, could you post a link to it here? I'm interested.

C//

[Carl Beyer]

In article >,
Courageous > wrote:

> >problem is that I am no expert, and I do not test the sand. Plus, I
> >have live plants in my pond so that must help my situation, along with
> >the skippy filter.
>
> I agree. They likely mask what happens. Finally, the f-bed perhaps
> repopulates with aerobes pretty quickly after it shuts down. Perhaps
> for your situation, this is good enough.
>
> >I know my water is in great shape. I have it tested often at the LFS.
> >And I know it is overstocked in a HUGE way.
>
> Intelligent pond management is what allows us to stock above nature's
> levels. If you think your pond is overstocked, you should check out
> intensive aquaculture facilities...
>
> Anyway, if you happen to find anything definitive that states that
> the aerobes in a fluidized bed have lifespans into days when the
> device is shutdown, could you post a link to it here? I'm interested.
>
> C//

Will find my old links... WIll post if for you when I do

All the best

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com