Help and advice

[moe]

Well I hope I have found somewhere that I can get some serious answers
a lot of places either won't answer you or tell you off. My problem I
have a small 500 gallon pond that is only 2 feet deep. I have a 650
gallon pump in it. This pond is in direct sun and my water of course is
staying green. On this small of a pond which has no fish btw... is a UV
Sterilizer Bio Filter really needed or are there chemicals to clear up
my problem? I had a few goldfish in there until we added algaefix,
afterwards within a day the fish were dead.

[Bill Stock]

"moe" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Well I hope I have found somewhere that I can get some serious answers
> a lot of places either won't answer you or tell you off. My problem I
> have a small 500 gallon pond that is only 2 feet deep. I have a 650
> gallon pump in it. This pond is in direct sun and my water of course is
> staying green. On this small of a pond which has no fish btw... is a UV
> Sterilizer Bio Filter really needed or are there chemicals to clear up
> my problem? I had a few goldfish in there until we added algaefix,
> afterwards within a day the fish were dead.

Some Phosphate absorber might reduce your Algae, but the best solution is to
cover the surface with plants. I had Algae like yours the first year and
bought a UV sterilizer, which cleared up the water nicely. But the last two
years I've had Hair Algae, which no amount of UV will cure. Hair Algae
attaches itself to the rocks/liner/etc so it does not flow through the
filter.

[Richard Holub]

The way I see it...there should be no chemicals added into anu pond for any
reason. The right size filter in the right size pond should work just fine.
What is it with the uv sterilizers???
Rich
"moe" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Well I hope I have found somewhere that I can get some serious answers
> a lot of places either won't answer you or tell you off. My problem I
> have a small 500 gallon pond that is only 2 feet deep. I have a 650
> gallon pump in it. This pond is in direct sun and my water of course is
> staying green. On this small of a pond which has no fish btw... is a UV
> Sterilizer Bio Filter really needed or are there chemicals to clear up
> my problem? I had a few goldfish in there until we added algaefix,
> afterwards within a day the fish were dead.
>

[moe]

I don't know much about uv sterilizers just everyone is trying to talk
me into investing into one. What size pump do you recommend Rich? I'm
like you on the chemicals I don't like to use them.

[moe]

I'm just sorta leery of that sterilizer....will try the phosphate
first. Our Lowes is having a sale on water plants to move them and of
course many look kinda ragged but repotted in some good aqua soil I
would think should help that. If I had a big pond I wouldn't mind
spending the money but we are talking about only a small 8x8 and I've
heard the same thing before on the hair algae.

[Reel Mckoi]

"moe" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Well I hope I have found somewhere that I can get some serious answers
> a lot of places either won't answer you or tell you off. My problem I
> have a small 500 gallon pond that is only 2 feet deep. I have a 650
> gallon pump in it.

** I have a holding tank with the same measurements. The Pump is about the
same. The filter is homemade (water goes through a 2" filter pad, trickles
down a barrier and over small 2" crock pots, then out 3 exit holes) and
water lilies and water lettuce cover about 50% of the surface. It never did
turn really green and I had a lot of fish in there before I sold them.
Right now it's crystal clear and only has a few goldfish (until they're
given away.) I don't use anything but Lymo-Zyme to help prevent ulcers.

This pond is in direct sun and my water of course is
> staying green.

** Water lilies, water lettuce and hyacinth really soak up the nutrients
and starve the algae. The shade also discourages the algae.

On this small of a pond which has no fish btw... is a UV
> Sterilizer Bio Filter really needed or are there chemicals to clear up
> my problem? I had a few goldfish in there until we added algaefix,
> afterwards within a day the fish were dead.

** Please find another way other than chemicals. I have two UV lights and
haven't used or needed them in several years.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Reel Mckoi]

"moe" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm just sorta leery of that sterilizer....will try the phosphate
> first. Our Lowes is having a sale on water plants to move them and of
> course many look kinda ragged but repotted in some good aqua soil I
> would think should help that. If I had a big pond I wouldn't mind
> spending the money but we are talking about only a small 8x8 and I've
> heard the same thing before on the hair algae.
===========================
Try to get some of the fastest growers and gross feeders - like water
lettuce and water hyacinth.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[RichToyBox]

What kind and size of filter do you have on the pond? Your question about
recommended size of pump makes me think that there may not be sufficient
filtration. How often, and what size water changes do you perform. Algae
love phosphates, and nitrogen, whether ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. Small
water changes can improve water quality by dilution of these, but large
water changes cause more algae.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"moe" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I don't know much about uv sterilizers just everyone is trying to talk
> me into investing into one. What size pump do you recommend Rich? I'm
> like you on the chemicals I don't like to use them.
>

[moe]

Sterilizer Bio Filter really needed or are there chemicals to clear up

> my problem? I had a few goldfish in there until we added algaefix,
> afterwards within a day the fish were dead.


** Please find another way other than chemicals. I have two UV lights
and
haven't used or needed them in several years.
--
Yep imagine how I felt when I walked outside and found dead fish
floating. I don't use chemicals on my indoor aquariums anymore either.

[moe]

I know a friend that has a large koi pond with plenty of hyacyth and
lettuce to spare.

[Reel Mckoi]

"moe" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I know a friend that has a large koi pond with plenty of hyacyth and
> lettuce to spare.
=========================
That may be your answer! :-) I'm sure he'd be willing to gave you some.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel Mckoi]

"moe" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Sterilizer Bio Filter really needed or are there chemicals to clear up
>
>> my problem? I had a few goldfish in there until we added algaefix,
>> afterwards within a day the fish were dead.
>
>
> ** Please find another way other than chemicals. I have two UV lights
> and
> haven't used or needed them in several years.
> --
> Yep imagine how I felt when I walked outside and found dead fish
> floating. I don't use chemicals on my indoor aquariums anymore either.
==========================================
I would have been horrified to find my fish dead......
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[moe]

Yep especially since he is making room for new koi next week. Thank you
so much for your help. Maybe in a few years when we move to the county
that larger pond will come about that I so desire.

[moe]

http://www.christmasdecorations.org/FR600_general_foam_plastics_corp.html

Basically that is the pump I have.

[moe]

It was awful and a sight I'll never forget. The chemical again was
Algaefix used as directed.

[moe]

Wow Rich those are some nice looking ponds you have there. I've thought
about a bog. Was it hard to do? Where we live we don't have a backyard
to use so I am using a section of the front yard that grass refused to
grow in. I'm limited on space but could fit a bog in.

[Roy]

The quickest way top clean it up is with aluminum sulphate if your not
going to put fish in it again hit it heaiver than normal dose or get
some baraclear P-80.....which is mainly aluminum sulphate with
bentonite in a pelleted form, or just go and ask the pharmacist for
some powdered alum. Its all the same stuff except for the bentonite
in the baraclear. It will lock up the phosphates so the algae can not
utilize the nitrogen, and starve. Aluminum sulphate works good.

I have heard lots of horrow stories with algae fix, mainly because
its dosed all at one time and used without proper aeration......Best
way to use algae fix is have lots of aeration and do it in 1/4 doses
at a time every other day or so, that way you do not have a massive
algae kill which will reduce o2 levels....Thats sort of what I think
probably happened with your fish and your pump size. Algaefix is good
if its used properly, but unfortunately the directions does not give
all the facts you really need to know.....Aluminum sulphate will not
kill everything at one time, but works gradually but aeration is still
a must have.

On 30 Jul 2005 17:42:27 -0700, "moe" > wrote:

>===<>Well I hope I have found somewhere that I can get some serious answers
>===<>a lot of places either won't answer you or tell you off. My problem I
>===<>have a small 500 gallon pond that is only 2 feet deep. I have a 650
>===<>gallon pump in it. This pond is in direct sun and my water of course is
>===<>staying green. On this small of a pond which has no fish btw... is a UV
>===<>Sterilizer Bio Filter really needed or are there chemicals to clear up
>===<>my problem? I had a few goldfish in there until we added algaefix,
>===<>afterwards within a day the fish were dead.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[moe]

It's a garden escape 650. If you have ever gone to walmart and have
seen those oval preformed ponds that is the same pump that is in there.
With no fish .......to be honest I've only changed the water one time
about 4 months ago and that was a 50 percent.

[moe]

yeah I bet that is what went on ..... they fail to tell you somethings.
Will this stuff damage the lilies that are in there? I'm off for the
night but will check in tomorrow. Thanks

[Courageous]

>Sterilizer Bio Filter really needed or are there chemicals to clear up
>my problem? I had a few goldfish in there until we added algaefix,
>afterwards within a day the fish were dead.

A biofilter is really needed, yes.

What you're asking your fish to do is to swim in their own ****.

The algae grows, because the **** is a nutrient for it.

Killing that algae probably removed the one thing that was
removing waste from your pond and concentrating it in some
less toxic form.

C//

[Reel Mckoi]

"moe" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> It was awful and a sight I'll never forget. The chemical again was
> Algaefix used as directed.
=========================
I hope everyone reading your message remembers this and avoids these pond
poisons.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>The way I see it...there should be no chemicals added into anu pond for any
>reason. The right size filter in the right size pond should work just fine.
>What is it with the uv sterilizers???
>Rich

Gonna be a pretty dry pond if we can't put H2O in it. ;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Roy]

I should not hurt your lilys.


On 30 Jul 2005 20:04:24 -0700, "moe" > wrote:

>===<>yeah I bet that is what went on ..... they fail to tell you somethings.
>===<>Will this stuff damage the lilies that are in there? I'm off for the
>===<>night but will check in tomorrow. Thanks


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Roy]

In your mind bimbo......they are fine if yu know what your doing and
have beetter knowledge about the products before using them from
others that have used them properly and get the full scope of whats
needed to use them and not just whats on most labels. EVERYTHING has
a ramification to use be it dechlor or PP to algaecide........and
everyones conditions are not the same.....just temperature variances
can make a big difference as well as a host of other things.......


On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:18:42 -0500, "Reel Mckoi"
> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"moe" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>===<>> It was awful and a sight I'll never forget. The chemical again was
>===<>> Algaefix used as directed.
>===<>=========================
>===<>I hope everyone reading your message remembers this and avoids these pond
>===<>poisons.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[RichToyBox]

My bog filters were upflow gravel filters with plants as a veggie filter.
It was a slightly raised pond about 18 inches deep with about a foot of
gravel. The gravel is now gone, but the veggies are still there. I run
some other massive filtration, so the gravel was redundant, and gravel is
hard to clean. For one of my ponds, I used landscape timbers to frame it
up, for the other, I used retaining wall block. Line with liner. Leave a
small depression in the side you want as a waterfall. One that I think
would look good is to run a 2 foot or there abouts, ring about half way
around to the pond and plant that with all kinds of water plants. Would
help get some of the plants out of the pond providing more room for the
fish, and lots of filtration.

Thanks for the comments on my ponds.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"moe" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Wow Rich those are some nice looking ponds you have there. I've thought
> about a bog. Was it hard to do? Where we live we don't have a backyard
> to use so I am using a section of the front yard that grass refused to
> grow in. I'm limited on space but could fit a bog in.
>

[moe]

I had to LOL.....sorry.

[moe]

Here's the culprit
http://usandmoe.com/gallery/Pond/pond

Hubby informed me this morning he wouldn't be satisfied until he got
the UV/ Bio filtration system. We always had those preformed MacCourt
ponds and this is our first stab at the real thing. I'm so frustrated
with the amount of money we have spent to get this as a result that I
am "about ready to fill it in." On the other hand I really want a pond
so there has got to be some fisable way to make this dang thing work.
My landscaping is out of whack due to the extreme heat in the south.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On 31 Jul 2005 08:21:27 -0700, "moe" > wrote:

>Here's the culprit
>http://usandmoe.com/gallery/Pond/pond
>
>Hubby informed me this morning he wouldn't be satisfied until he got
>the UV/ Bio filtration system. We always had those preformed MacCourt
>ponds and this is our first stab at the real thing. I'm so frustrated
>with the amount of money we have spent to get this as a result that I
>am "about ready to fill it in." On the other hand I really want a pond
>so there has got to be some fisable way to make this dang thing work.
>My landscaping is out of whack due to the extreme heat in the south.

Hi Moe, if that picture is current and that is all the plants you have in
there, there's your problem. More lilies, more water hyacinth, more, more,
more: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/lilypond/photos/020.jpg ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[moe]

Yep that was yesterday's photo. I have hyacinth and lettuce on the way
and plan on a trip to Lowes to salvage what water plants they have
left. Ah, the UV/Bio is ordered.

[moe]

Clicked your link love that pond!

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On 31 Jul 2005 15:32:23 -0700, "moe" > wrote:

>Clicked your link love that pond!

Thanks (assuming you're referring to mine) some of us delete prior
messages, so we always leave a little of what we're replying to. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Reel McKoi]

"moe" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Here's the culprit
> http://usandmoe.com/gallery/Pond/pond
>
> Hubby informed me this morning he wouldn't be satisfied until he got
> the UV/ Bio filtration system. We always had those preformed MacCourt
> ponds and this is our first stab at the real thing. I'm so frustrated
> with the amount of money we have spent to get this as a result that I
> am "about ready to fill it in." On the other hand I really want a pond
> so there has got to be some fisable way to make this dang thing work.
> My landscaping is out of whack due to the extreme heat in the south.
==============================
It doesn't look like the water fall falls into the pond??!?!?! Is there a
separate pump and filter for the lower, larger pond? The water looks very
still. You also need a lot more plants to compete for the nutrients in the
water.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm

[Herb]

RichToyBox wrote:

> My bog filters were upflow gravel filters with plants as a veggie
> filter.


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/herb_watson/album?.dir=f98e&.src=ph&store=
&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/herb_watson/my_photos

If you get time to go look, I built what I guess is called an upflow
filter, based on bits and pieces of some things I found on the net. My
pond is a 165 gallon preformed, with lots of anacharis, a water lily,
and some hyacinth (which ain't doing that good). I bought a 50 gallon
pond "kit" from Wal-Mart, and modified it to make a bog filter. I put
the supplied pump into the main pond, plumbed it to a pvc manifold,
covered by a plasic mesh (the stuff they use in suspended ceilings for
flouresscent lights) to hold up a layer of lava rock, then pea gravel
that I planted several "Lowes" special plants in. To make it prettier,
my wife and I put a layer of aquarium gravel on top. The canna and one
of the other plants we put in are growing and spreading like weeds
across the bog filter. I occasionally add one of the bio (beneficial
bacteria) supplements. So far, I've never had even a trace of ammonia
or nitrite by sample. I don't have a lot of fish, four 5 to 6 inch
comets, and 4 plecostomus. I had string algae for a while, but even
that's gone now, and I can easily see the 24 inch deep bottom of my
pond. I'd appreciate hearing any comments you have that might make
things work better. One thing I know now, I need to add a check valve,
the way I have my filter plumbed in, if the power goes off, then the
water in the filter siphons back to the pond. If it went off a long
time, it could kill my plants, and destroy the beneficial bacteria.
ONe thing I'd love to do is put an air wand in the back of the pond to
make an air curtain. I have no idea what kind of air pump to buy that
could withstand the rigors of outdoor exposure. Any suggestions?
Sorry this is so long. Thanks.

Herb

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>I have no idea what kind of air pump to buy that
>could withstand the rigors of outdoor exposure. Any suggestions?
>Sorry this is so long. Thanks.
>Herb

A lot of us just get cheapies (indoor quality) and cover them with a
bucket. I got the largest Walmart carried at the time and it has been
running for 3 years 24/7, outside under a bucket. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[RichToyBox]

It looks like it is working well. I agree that you need a check valve to
prevent backflow from the filter back to the pond. When you take it down
for cleaning, I would add a bulkhead fitting in the bottom to some plumbing
to drain the debris out of the bottom of the tub easily. The backwash would
only have to be done periodically, but would make the frequency of tearing
the whole system down much less.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Herb" > wrote in message
news:6eYHe.28736$MW5.2733@trnddc08...
> RichToyBox wrote:
>
>> My bog filters were upflow gravel filters with plants as a veggie
>> filter.
>
>
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/herb_watson/album?.dir=f98e&.src=ph&store=
> &prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/herb_watson/my_photos
>
> If you get time to go look, I built what I guess is called an upflow
> filter, based on bits and pieces of some things I found on the net. My
> pond is a 165 gallon preformed, with lots of anacharis, a water lily,
> and some hyacinth (which ain't doing that good). I bought a 50 gallon
> pond "kit" from Wal-Mart, and modified it to make a bog filter. I put
> the supplied pump into the main pond, plumbed it to a pvc manifold,
> covered by a plasic mesh (the stuff they use in suspended ceilings for
> flouresscent lights) to hold up a layer of lava rock, then pea gravel
> that I planted several "Lowes" special plants in. To make it prettier,
> my wife and I put a layer of aquarium gravel on top. The canna and one
> of the other plants we put in are growing and spreading like weeds
> across the bog filter. I occasionally add one of the bio (beneficial
> bacteria) supplements. So far, I've never had even a trace of ammonia
> or nitrite by sample. I don't have a lot of fish, four 5 to 6 inch
> comets, and 4 plecostomus. I had string algae for a while, but even
> that's gone now, and I can easily see the 24 inch deep bottom of my
> pond. I'd appreciate hearing any comments you have that might make
> things work better. One thing I know now, I need to add a check valve,
> the way I have my filter plumbed in, if the power goes off, then the
> water in the filter siphons back to the pond. If it went off a long
> time, it could kill my plants, and destroy the beneficial bacteria.
> ONe thing I'd love to do is put an air wand in the back of the pond to
> make an air curtain. I have no idea what kind of air pump to buy that
> could withstand the rigors of outdoor exposure. Any suggestions?
> Sorry this is so long. Thanks.
>
> Herb