How Do I Build This Pond?

[Harry]

Hello,
Here is an idea i now have. Will it work, and what are the pit falls?
I want a "pond" to be an entirely intigrated part of the creek, as if Mother
Nature had already done it herself, no barriers of any kind to change nor
stop the natural flow of the creek, plus a wide mouth opening into the "pond".
In other words the creek will be "wider" at that point. The creek has huge,
rock slabs as its bottom, so i guess the land is also rocky, and this is
what makes me think it would work. I just want to dig the hole and let Mother
Nature do the rest, and wait for her to settle down before using the "pond",
however i would like to know for what pit falls i should watch. There is
swamp at creek side so the process has already begun, all i want to do
is finish what Mother Nature has already started . . . probably is what makes
the land so cheap . . . Here in Florida, the contractors dig huge "ponds"
to collect the swamp water into one hole, so as to be able to build houses
in swamps, and it works fine.
Another way of saying it is: i want the creek water to pool into a round,
three-"sided" pond. The "pond" will be in the shape of a "C"; the open mouth
of the "pond" on the creek.
Also where can i get information on the Government information and aid, there
is out there, for building types of ponds?


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[kathy]

Call your county and ask them.
good luck!

kathy :-) www.blogfromthebog.com
Pond 101 page for new pond keepers ~
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[George]

"Harry" :7501> wrote in message
...
>
> Hello,
> Here is an idea i now have. Will it work, and what are the pit falls?
> I want a "pond" to be an entirely intigrated part of the creek, as if
> Mother
> Nature had already done it herself, no barriers of any kind to change nor
> stop the natural flow of the creek, plus a wide mouth opening into the
> "pond".
> In other words the creek will be "wider" at that point. The creek has
> huge,
> rock slabs as its bottom, so i guess the land is also rocky, and this is
> what makes me think it would work. I just want to dig the hole and let
> Mother
> Nature do the rest, and wait for her to settle down before using the
> "pond",
> however i would like to know for what pit falls i should watch. There is
> swamp at creek side so the process has already begun, all i want to do
> is finish what Mother Nature has already started . . . probably is what
> makes
> the land so cheap . . . Here in Florida, the contractors dig huge "ponds"
> to collect the swamp water into one hole, so as to be able to build
> houses
> in swamps, and it works fine.
> Another way of saying it is: i want the creek water to pool into a round,
> three-"sided" pond. The "pond" will be in the shape of a "C"; the open
> mouth
> of the "pond" on the creek.
> Also where can i get information on the Government information and aid,
> there
> is out there, for building types of ponds?
>

If this is a natural creek you are considering altering, you are going to
have to contact the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and get permits to alter
it (very difficult to get approval these days because of the wetlands
protection laws). Otherwise, if they find out that you've made alterations
without approval, you could get in a whole world of trouble. Take my
advice, don't go there.

[Harry]

" George" > wrote:
>
>"Harry" :7501> wrote in message
...
>>
>> Hello,
>> Here is an idea i now have. Will it work, and what are the pit falls?
>> I want a "pond" to be an entirely intigrated part of the creek, as if

>> Mother
>> Nature had already done it herself, no barriers of any kind to change
nor
>> stop the natural flow of the creek, plus a wide mouth opening into the

>> "pond".
>> In other words the creek will be "wider" at that point. The creek has

>> huge,
>> rock slabs as its bottom, so i guess the land is also rocky, and this
is
>> what makes me think it would work. I just want to dig the hole and let

>> Mother
>> Nature do the rest, and wait for her to settle down before using the
>> "pond",
>> however i would like to know for what pit falls i should watch. There
is
>> swamp at creek side so the process has already begun, all i want to do
>> is finish what Mother Nature has already started . . . probably is what

>> makes
>> the land so cheap . . . Here in Florida, the contractors dig huge "ponds"
>> to collect the swamp water into one hole, so as to be able to build
>> houses
>> in swamps, and it works fine.
>> Another way of saying it is: i want the creek water to pool into a round,
>> three-"sided" pond. The "pond" will be in the shape of a "C"; the open

>> mouth
>> of the "pond" on the creek.
>> Also where can i get information on the Government information and aid,

>> there
>> is out there, for building types of ponds?
>>
>
>If this is a natural creek you are considering altering, you are going to

>have to contact the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and get permits to alter

>it (very difficult to get approval these days because of the wetlands
>protection laws). Otherwise, if they find out that you've made alterations

>without approval, you could get in a whole world of trouble. Take my
>advice, don't go there.
>
>
Hello, George,
There is more than one Government agency to go to to get permits. There is:
NRCS; USACE (as you mentioned); DEP; local Government including county government,
township, municipality/borough, and last but not least Penn State Cooperation
Extension office, not to mention an environmental engineer or consultant,
however the question i asked you was: which government agency pays you to
put in a pond, so could you answer that question, please (one of the two
questions i asked)? Remember, because of the sloped sides this "pond" will
enhance wetlands . . . Ihave been doing my homework, have you?

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[George]

"Harry" :7501> wrote in message
...
>
> " George" > wrote:
>>
>>"Harry" :7501> wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Here is an idea i now have. Will it work, and what are the pit falls?
>>> I want a "pond" to be an entirely intigrated part of the creek, as if
>
>>> Mother
>>> Nature had already done it herself, no barriers of any kind to change
> nor
>>> stop the natural flow of the creek, plus a wide mouth opening into the
>
>>> "pond".
>>> In other words the creek will be "wider" at that point. The creek has
>
>>> huge,
>>> rock slabs as its bottom, so i guess the land is also rocky, and this
> is
>>> what makes me think it would work. I just want to dig the hole and let
>
>>> Mother
>>> Nature do the rest, and wait for her to settle down before using the
>>> "pond",
>>> however i would like to know for what pit falls i should watch. There
> is
>>> swamp at creek side so the process has already begun, all i want to do
>>> is finish what Mother Nature has already started . . . probably is what
>
>>> makes
>>> the land so cheap . . . Here in Florida, the contractors dig huge
>>> "ponds"
>>> to collect the swamp water into one hole, so as to be able to build
>>> houses
>>> in swamps, and it works fine.
>>> Another way of saying it is: i want the creek water to pool into a
>>> round,
>>> three-"sided" pond. The "pond" will be in the shape of a "C"; the open
>
>>> mouth
>>> of the "pond" on the creek.
>>> Also where can i get information on the Government information and aid,
>
>>> there
>>> is out there, for building types of ponds?
>>>
>>
>>If this is a natural creek you are considering altering, you are going to
>
>>have to contact the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and get permits to alter
>
>>it (very difficult to get approval these days because of the wetlands
>>protection laws). Otherwise, if they find out that you've made
>>alterations
>
>>without approval, you could get in a whole world of trouble. Take my
>>advice, don't go there.
>>
>>
> Hello, George,
> There is more than one Government agency to go to to get permits. There
> is:
> NRCS; USACE (as you mentioned); DEP; local Government including county
> government,
> township, municipality/borough, and last but not least Penn State
> Cooperation
> Extension office, not to mention an environmental engineer or consultant,
> however the question i asked you was: which government agency pays you to
> put in a pond, so could you answer that question, please (one of the two
> questions i asked)? Remember, because of the sloped sides this "pond"
> will
> enhance wetlands . . . Ihave been doing my homework, have you?
>

I don't live in Florida so I cannot tell you whether or not any government
agency will pay you to put in a pond, especially within a wetland. I've
not heard of one. I will tell you that the Corps of Engineers have the
primary responsibility for protecting wetlands and streams. As such, no
matter what other agencies allow or require, the buck stops with them.
They have the final say on any alterations of wetlands and streams. If
they say no, your project is lost. I'm an environmental consultant, so yes
I have done a little homework on the issue.

http://www.usace.army.mil/inet/functions/cw/cecwo/reg/exo11990.htm

http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/releases/swancc12-03.htm

http://www.nae.usace.army.mil/reg/PhysicalStreamAssessment.pdf

All I'm saying is that if you want to modify an existing natural stream in
any way, you are going to have a lot of fun getting it approved. An
important resource for determining the effects of stream modification is a
book entitled "Applied River Morphology", by Dave Rosgen. It is an
invaluable resource, by the "guru" of river and stream morphology, for
learning how man-made changes to the aquatic environment affect the ecology
and geology of streams and rivers. It is very technical, but a must-have
if you truly want to make changes to any stream and not have those changes
come back to haunt you.

[Derek Broughton]

Harry wrote:

> There is
> swamp at creek side so the process has already begun, all i want to do
> is finish what Mother Nature has already started

George is right about the legal complications. I'd also point out that
you're getting this backwards. The swamp is almost certainly _not_ Mother
Nature's start - it's the most recent stage of eutrophication, where it
started out the way you want it to be, and has been slowly filling in.
--
derek

[Roy]

Pin the joints of the crossties (sleepers) with steel rod.......no way
is the water pressure going to overcome the sheer strength of a steel
pin. Even a 20 or 30 penny spike used as a pin on a half lap joint or
a through joint would be more than sufficient even for a higher outer
frame.....

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Harry]

(Roy) wrote:
>Pin the joints of the crossties (sleepers) with steel rod.......no way
>is the water pressure going to overcome the sheer strength of a steel
>pin. Even a 20 or 30 penny spike used as a pin on a half lap joint or
>a through joint would be more than sufficient even for a higher outer
>frame.....
>
>==============================================
>Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
>"The original frugal ponder"
>~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
Hello, Roy,
Iam sure the day will come when what youhave just said will mean something
to me, so iwill c/p it under my "POND" heading. Thank you'll . . .

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