A long way from a salt lfs

[Carmichael's]

Hello all, allow me to introduce myself. My names Alyssa and i have had
tropical fish for the last 5 years now, mostly angels and bala sharks. I've
had more angel babies then i can shake a stick at and i decided to challenge
myself with a FOWLR 20 galleon tank (my 45 has my angels in it :-) ). So we
have established I'm not a huge newbie... just a little one *wink*. Lotsa
research on the net other the past 2 weeks which, of course, has some
questions.....

1) I live 5 hours away from Edmonton where the nearest sal****er lfs's
would be. Anyone else in the same predicament? and how did you manage? I go
there like once a year so what's you experience with mailorder... or ebay?

2) Is a protien skimmer an essential? Like i can't live without it. Anything
I should be looking for in particular? Once again, what about buying second
hand (can we say EBAY) *lol*

3) I read that you shouldn't use aquarium epoxy-coated gravel in a marine
steup. Why is that? Can i use beach (sandbox) sand? I have that with my
freshwater tank, and there is no problem.

4) What is the lowest the salenity (spelling?) should be at? One place says
1.018 at the lowest, another said 1.022 at the lowest. Is it that much of a
difference?

5) I would like to end up with these species (not sure how many of each i
should try for)
Yellowtail Blue Damsel, Yellow Tang, Goby (not sure what kind,
recommendations?), a clown fish (nemo), and a cleaner shrimp, starfish. So
good mix or no? I read that with 4 W/gal of light at 10,000K I should be
able to grow some polyps and mushrooms, agreed?

Tanks for anyone who even reads this! I appreciate any help. I originally
wanted to get seahorses since that's what sparked my interest in sal****er
but decided they weren't the way to start off in a new hobby. (a friend of a
friend is the second person in Canada, supposedly, to breed them). Very
awesome. Thanks again for the help!

[George Patterson]

Carmichael's wrote:
>
> 1) I live 5 hours away from Edmonton where the nearest sal****er lfs's
> would be. Anyone else in the same predicament? and how did you manage? I go
> there like once a year so what's you experience with mailorder... or ebay?

The problems you will have to solve are heat and oxygen. One method of handling
both is to transport fish you purchase in relatively large containers. I keep
two 5 gallon buckets with watertight lids for various aquarium uses. You can
fill one of these about 1/3 full and use it to transport fish. You can remove
the lid when there is no danger of water sloshing out, but I tend to keep it on
in the car. Set it where the car heater will blow on it and keep the car warmer
than usual.

Another method is to have the lfs top off the usual bag with oxygen instead of
air. Many shops keep a small oxygen tank for this purpose. Many of them will
also have some of the foam crates in which fish are usually shipped.

The only things I've ordered by mail are snails & crabs. All came through fine.
You *have* to be home when the package arrives. When I lived near Atlanta, I was
also able to make arrangements with a local fish store to pick up shipments from
overseas right off the plane and take them straight home in the bag. The shops
around here buy from wholesale holding tanks, however.

> 2) Is a protien skimmer an essential? Like i can't live without it. Anything
> I should be looking for in particular? Once again, what about buying second
> hand (can we say EBAY) *lol*

Yep, you need one. The most efficient models are venturi type, which make a
hissing noise. Because of the noise, I use the old-fashioned sort that has an
airstone. Do your research (perhaps here) and decide what you want -- after
that, Ebay may do well for you. I've found that Ebay is sometimes actually
higher than local stores, and it's full of vendors selling equipment, as opposed
to actual auctions.

> 3) I read that you shouldn't use aquarium epoxy-coated gravel in a marine
> steup. Why is that? Can i use beach (sandbox) sand? I have that with my
> freshwater tank, and there is no problem.

Many of the epoxies will break down in sal****er -- might be unhealthy for your
fish. You also need to keep the Ph high, and using crushed coral or some other
variety of substrate high in calcium is good for that. Sand won't help with the
Ph, but it won't make your fish sick, either.

> 4) What is the lowest the salenity (spelling?) should be at? One place says
> 1.018 at the lowest, another said 1.022 at the lowest. Is it that much of a
> difference?

I keep my salinity levels around 1.020 or a little higher. That's with a tank
temperature of 79-80F. The range of acceptable salinity levels vary with
temperature, so one of the places you spoke to probably keeps their tanks warmer
than the other. Keeping the salinity level too high results in dehydration of
your fish, and salinity levels increase when water evaporates from the tank, so
staying on the low side and keeping the water level pretty constant are good ideas.

> 5) I would like to end up with these species (not sure how many of each i
> should try for)
> Yellowtail Blue Damsel, Yellow Tang, Goby (not sure what kind,
> recommendations?), a clown fish (nemo), and a cleaner shrimp, starfish.

The Tang may eat your shrimp. He will also be in danger from many types of
starfish -- the star won't be able to catch him during the day, but may get him
during the night. Avoid Mandarin Gobies. They eat very small items which are
available in good reef tanks, but they will probably starve in the type of tank
you're planning. Stack your rock in such a way as to make lots of little
hidey-holes for the clown and goby.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[agent smith]

not to mention, putting a yellow tang (may grow up to 8") in a 20gallon tank
isnt the smartest thing to do. i personally have a 20g that has 2 true
percula clowns, 1 scooter blenny, 5 hermit crabs and 5 turbo snails, some
richordia (sp?) and 3 small zoo colonies. all this is under a 110watt PC
lightstrip (50/50, 10000k/03 anctinic). ive had great success with my tank.
it sits right here on my desk and is a wonderous thing to look at. if you
get a 110watt pc lightstrip for your 20gallon, you could do more than just
soft corals.

HTH!



--
The woo still lives!

The new beast:

94 Acura Integra GSR w/ cold air intake, back seats removed, full exhaust w/
silencer, race cat, magnacore wires, bosch +4 plat sparkplugs, alloy wheels.
more to come, check out www.team-integra.net !!!

[Carmichael's]

In my picking of fish i (embarrased) didn't take into acount the grown size
of fish, no Tang for me apparently! What does PC stand for? in regards to
agent smiths lightstrip. And zoo colonies? *sigh* more questions... bear
with me, it'll end soon.

And for George Patterson, thanks for the hint about the noise the skimmer
might make. Since the tank will be located in our bedroom, I don't think the
hubby could stand it. As it is, he always tops off that tank for me ( i
thought the sound of trickling water is soothing, after all people pay big
bucks for those little desktop fountains *smile*)

[agent smith]

"Carmichael's" > wrote in message
news:LmbIe.125920$wr.51998@clgrps12...
> In my picking of fish i (embarrased) didn't take into acount the grown
> size

meh, its all good. i never took this into account when i started up cichlids
about 9 years ago...

> of fish, no Tang for me apparently! What does PC stand for? in regards to

pc = power compact. a different type of lighting. you can ebay 'power
compact lightstrip' and see what im talking about

> agent smiths lightstrip. And zoo colonies? *sigh* more questions... bear
> with me, it'll end soon.

zoo colonies = zoanthids.. lemme get a link.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/s/b/sbj4/aquarium/other-pics/pink-zoanthid.gif

they look like that, but they come in a lot of different colours.

>
> And for George Patterson, thanks for the hint about the noise the skimmer
> might make. Since the tank will be located in our bedroom, I don't think
> the hubby could stand it. As it is, he always tops off that tank for me
> ( i thought the sound of trickling water is soothing, after all people pay
> big bucks for those little desktop fountains *smile*)

well, you could make a refug or some type of sump... and put the skimmer in
there.


>
>


--
The woo still lives!

The new beast:

94 Acura Integra GSR w/ cold air intake, back seats removed, full exhaust w/
silencer, race cat, magnacore wires, bosch +4 plat sparkplugs, alloy wheels.
more to come, check out www.team-integra.net !!!

[Billy]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:Hh6Ie.7028$2y2.4828@trndny02...
> Carmichael's wrote:
>
>> 5) I would like to end up with these species (not sure how many of
>> each i should try for)
>> Yellowtail Blue Damsel, Yellow Tang, Goby (not sure what kind,
>> recommendations?), a clown fish (nemo), and a cleaner shrimp,
>> starfish.
>


From experience, I would avoid damsels. They're small, cheap and
hardy, but can be VERY aggressive and territorial. I've seen 3 of
them kill a fish 10 times their size. I would only keep damsels in a
species tank.

billy

[George Patterson]

Carmichael's wrote:
>
> And for George Patterson, thanks for the hint about the noise the skimmer
> might make. Since the tank will be located in our bedroom, I don't think the
> hubby could stand it.

Well, mine makes only a slight hum from the air pump. It takes a small powerhead
for water flow, and the largest single-outlet diaphram-type air pump I could
find. I'm not willing to recommend that particular model, though. It gave me
good service for years, but the power head died a few weeks back and I'm having
a great deal of trouble finding a replacement. The skimmer was made to use that
head, the head's no longer made, and power heads that are too powerful cause the
skimmer to overflow.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[williamcraza]

I keep two 5 gallon buckets with absolute lids for assorted aquarium uses. You can fill one of these about 1/3 abounding and use it to carriage fish. You can remove the lid if there is no crisis of baptize sloshing out, but I tend to accumulate it on in the car. Set it area the car boiler will draft on it and accumulate the car warmer than usual.

[anddyrogers]

The problems you will accept to break are calefaction and oxygen. One adjustment of handling both is to carriage angle you acquirement in almost ample containers. I keep two 5 gallon buckets with absolute lids for assorted aquarium uses. You can fill one of these about 1/3 abounding and use it to carriage fish.