Alkalinity / Hardness Levels

[Peter Pan]

Can any one please tell me what the Alkalinity and Hardness levels should
be. I have a 75 Gal tank

I took the Alkalinity readings and got 170 ppm
and Hardness is well over 2000 ppm and Calcium of 2600ppm

Im using the Lamotte test kits and stopped after filling the solution 10X
and the color still did not change. ( i did the test twice to enusre i was
doing it correctly).

How far off are my levels and where should they be. I have B-Ionic Calcium
Buffer System to help with the levels... Im just not sure how much of each
to add at this point

Thanks

--

[Dragon Slayer]

your not doing something right, your calcium is not 2600
ppm...............unless your just dosed 50 gallon of kalk and its snowing
in the tank.

alk should be in the neighborhood of 8 dKH or 2.9 meg/L

1 meg/L = 1 ppm (at least in calcium levels, I just guess the same for alk,
but not sure)

my 75 is at 15 dKH but its steady and calcium is at 420ppm.


either your test kit is really whacked or your doing the test wrong/reading
it wrong.

I highly recommend salifert test kits for alk and ca. if you don't want to
get new kits get someone else to test it (lfs maybe) and see what you really
have. if its bad off its best to do a water change to get it close then add
what is needed to get it to the level you want to keep.

after you get the levels you want to keep, you monitor it daily to see if
alk dropped, if so add part A of the B-Ionic and an equal amount of the B
part. up the dose daily till your alk levels don't drop. then test
calcium, it should be in the ball park of where it should be if not you may
have to adjust part B to fix it, then recheck the alk again to double check
it, ca effects alk and vise/versa.

hth
kc



"Peter Pan" > wrote in message
...
> Can any one please tell me what the Alkalinity and Hardness levels should
> be. I have a 75 Gal tank
>
> I took the Alkalinity readings and got 170 ppm
> and Hardness is well over 2000 ppm and Calcium of 2600ppm
>
> Im using the Lamotte test kits and stopped after filling the solution 10X
> and the color still did not change. ( i did the test twice to enusre i was
> doing it correctly).
>
> How far off are my levels and where should they be. I have B-Ionic Calcium
> Buffer System to help with the levels... Im just not sure how much of each
> to add at this point
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
>

[Peter Pan]

OK now i followed the directions the correct way and received the following
hardness: 5160
calcium 619
magnisum 4541

is this more in line?

--

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> your not doing something right, your calcium is not 2600
> ppm...............unless your just dosed 50 gallon of kalk and its snowing
> in the tank.
>
> alk should be in the neighborhood of 8 dKH or 2.9 meg/L
>
> 1 meg/L = 1 ppm (at least in calcium levels, I just guess the same for
alk,
> but not sure)
>
> my 75 is at 15 dKH but its steady and calcium is at 420ppm.
>
>
> either your test kit is really whacked or your doing the test
wrong/reading
> it wrong.
>
> I highly recommend salifert test kits for alk and ca. if you don't want
to
> get new kits get someone else to test it (lfs maybe) and see what you
really
> have. if its bad off its best to do a water change to get it close then
add
> what is needed to get it to the level you want to keep.
>
> after you get the levels you want to keep, you monitor it daily to see if
> alk dropped, if so add part A of the B-Ionic and an equal amount of the B
> part. up the dose daily till your alk levels don't drop. then test
> calcium, it should be in the ball park of where it should be if not you
may
> have to adjust part B to fix it, then recheck the alk again to double
check
> it, ca effects alk and vise/versa.
>
> hth
> kc
>
>
>
> "Peter Pan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Can any one please tell me what the Alkalinity and Hardness levels
should
> > be. I have a 75 Gal tank
> >
> > I took the Alkalinity readings and got 170 ppm
> > and Hardness is well over 2000 ppm and Calcium of 2600ppm
> >
> > Im using the Lamotte test kits and stopped after filling the solution
10X
> > and the color still did not change. ( i did the test twice to enusre i
was
> > doing it correctly).
> >
> > How far off are my levels and where should they be. I have B-Ionic
Calcium
> > Buffer System to help with the levels... Im just not sure how much of
each
> > to add at this point
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

No, unfortunately it is not.

Hardness is not something I check, personally, as Alkalinity gives us an
indication of water hardness anyway.

Alkalinity should be between 8 and 11 dKH to match NSW (Natural Sea Water)
Magnesium should be around 1400ppm
Calcium should be 400 - 450ppm.

I'd stop dosing Calcium now. Why not take your new test kits with you to the
LFS and have them do a sample test with you of your water and of theirs? That
was you could compare some of the results against a healthy reef display in
their care.

Marc


Peter Pan wrote:

> OK now i followed the directions the correct way and received the following
> hardness: 5160
> calcium 619
> magnisum 4541
>
> is this more in line?
>
> --
>
> "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > your not doing something right, your calcium is not 2600
> > ppm...............unless your just dosed 50 gallon of kalk and its snowing
> > in the tank.
> >
> > alk should be in the neighborhood of 8 dKH or 2.9 meg/L
> >
> > 1 meg/L = 1 ppm (at least in calcium levels, I just guess the same for
> alk,
> > but not sure)
> >
> > my 75 is at 15 dKH but its steady and calcium is at 420ppm.
> >
> >
> > either your test kit is really whacked or your doing the test
> wrong/reading
> > it wrong.
> >
> > I highly recommend salifert test kits for alk and ca. if you don't want
> to
> > get new kits get someone else to test it (lfs maybe) and see what you
> really
> > have. if its bad off its best to do a water change to get it close then
> add
> > what is needed to get it to the level you want to keep.
> >
> > after you get the levels you want to keep, you monitor it daily to see if
> > alk dropped, if so add part A of the B-Ionic and an equal amount of the B
> > part. up the dose daily till your alk levels don't drop. then test
> > calcium, it should be in the ball park of where it should be if not you
> may
> > have to adjust part B to fix it, then recheck the alk again to double
> check
> > it, ca effects alk and vise/versa.
> >
> > hth
> > kc
> >
> >
> >
> > "Peter Pan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Can any one please tell me what the Alkalinity and Hardness levels
> should
> > > be. I have a 75 Gal tank
> > >
> > > I took the Alkalinity readings and got 170 ppm
> > > and Hardness is well over 2000 ppm and Calcium of 2600ppm
> > >
> > > Im using the Lamotte test kits and stopped after filling the solution
> 10X
> > > and the color still did not change. ( i did the test twice to enusre i
> was
> > > doing it correctly).
> > >
> > > How far off are my levels and where should they be. I have B-Ionic
> Calcium
> > > Buffer System to help with the levels... Im just not sure how much of
> each
> > > to add at this point
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Boomer]

"Hardness is not something I check, personally, as Alkalinity gives us an
indication of water hardness anyway."

Calcium Hardness is the Ca level and alk does not give an indication of hardness.
Hardness is just **expressed** as CaCO3, to calculate the Ca you just remove the molecular
weight of the CO3
In seawater that hardness will not be just Ca but also Mg and Sr

EX

By definition, 1dGH = 10 mg/liter CaO

Atomic Weight Ca = 40, O = 16, CaO = 56

So 10 mg/liter CaO contains 40/56 *10 = 7.143 mg/liter of Ca

By definition ppm Ca is not for elemental calcium but for ppm CaCO3.

Atomic weight CaCO3 = 100

So 7.143 mg/liter of elemental Ca would be expressed as 100/40 * 7.143 = 17.8575
mg/liter(ppm)CaCO3.

1dGH = 17.86 ppm CaCO3 and 7.143 ppm Ca2+.


You said 2600 and that means 2600 ppm CaCO3 = 365 ppm or mg / l Ca, as 26000 / 7.143 =
364 so it is a little low.You need to be near 3000 ppm. The conversion is 7.143, so 3000 /
7.143 = 420


Your alk is about normal about 3.3 meq / l. The conversion is 17.86, so 170 / 17.86 = 9.5
/ 2.8 = 3.4 meq/ / or 9.5 dKH

Something is wrong with this below

"OK now i followed the directions the correct way and received the following
hardness: 5160
calcium 619
magnisum 4541"

"1 meg/L = 1 ppm (at least in calcium levels, I just guess the same for alk"

No, that is mg / l = ppm. meq / l, as used in Alk or Ca is a whole different beast

Ex

400 mg / l = 10 mmol and mmol x its charge = meq / l .And Ca has a charge of +2 = so 2 x
10= 20 meq / l Ca or 400 ppm or mg / l. And mmol x its molecular weight = mg / l so Ca
has a MW of 40 and seawater has 10 mmol of Ca, so 40 x 10 = 400 mg / l



--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

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Please Join Our Growing Membership
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If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message ...
: No, unfortunately it is not.
:
: Hardness is not something I check, personally, as Alkalinity gives us an
: indication of water hardness anyway.
:
: Alkalinity should be between 8 and 11 dKH to match NSW (Natural Sea Water)
: Magnesium should be around 1400ppm
: Calcium should be 400 - 450ppm.
:
: I'd stop dosing Calcium now. Why not take your new test kits with you to the
: LFS and have them do a sample test with you of your water and of theirs? That
: was you could compare some of the results against a healthy reef display in
: their care.
:
: Marc
:
:
: Peter Pan wrote:
:
: > OK now i followed the directions the correct way and received the following
: > hardness: 5160
: > calcium 619
: > magnisum 4541
: >
: > is this more in line?
: >
: > --
: >
: > "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
: > ...
: > > your not doing something right, your calcium is not 2600
: > > ppm...............unless your just dosed 50 gallon of kalk and its snowing
: > > in the tank.
: > >
: > > alk should be in the neighborhood of 8 dKH or 2.9 meg/L
: > >
: > > 1 meg/L = 1 ppm (at least in calcium levels, I just guess the same for
: > alk,
: > > but not sure)
: > >
: > > my 75 is at 15 dKH but its steady and calcium is at 420ppm.
: > >
: > >
: > > either your test kit is really whacked or your doing the test
: > wrong/reading
: > > it wrong.
: > >
: > > I highly recommend salifert test kits for alk and ca. if you don't want
: > to
: > > get new kits get someone else to test it (lfs maybe) and see what you
: > really
: > > have. if its bad off its best to do a water change to get it close then
: > add
: > > what is needed to get it to the level you want to keep.
: > >
: > > after you get the levels you want to keep, you monitor it daily to see if
: > > alk dropped, if so add part A of the B-Ionic and an equal amount of the B
: > > part. up the dose daily till your alk levels don't drop. then test
: > > calcium, it should be in the ball park of where it should be if not you
: > may
: > > have to adjust part B to fix it, then recheck the alk again to double
: > check
: > > it, ca effects alk and vise/versa.
: > >
: > > hth
: > > kc
: > >
: > >
: > >
: > > "Peter Pan" > wrote in message
: > > ...
: > > > Can any one please tell me what the Alkalinity and Hardness levels
: > should
: > > > be. I have a 75 Gal tank
: > > >
: > > > I took the Alkalinity readings and got 170 ppm
: > > > and Hardness is well over 2000 ppm and Calcium of 2600ppm
: > > >
: > > > Im using the Lamotte test kits and stopped after filling the solution
: > 10X
: > > > and the color still did not change. ( i did the test twice to enusre i
: > was
: > > > doing it correctly).
: > > >
: > > > How far off are my levels and where should they be. I have B-Ionic
: > Calcium
: > > > Buffer System to help with the levels... Im just not sure how much of
: > each
: > > > to add at this point
: > > >
: > > > Thanks
: > > >
: > > > --
: > > >
: > > >
: > >
: > >
:
: --
: Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
: Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
: Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
:
:

[Boomer]

math error here on my part

"17.86 ppm CaCO3 and 7.143 ppm Ca2+."

which means 17.86 / 7.143 = 2.5, so 2.5 mg / l CaCO3 = 1 mg / l Ca++
at 2600 then 2600 / 2.5 = 1040 mg / l Ca if we look at the 619, then 619 / 2.5 = 248mg /
l Ca. this is way to low for any sea mix you make your seawater from

In your procedure it should follow that you first measure Total hardness and then Ca
hardness. The Ca Hardness is then subtracted from the Total hardness which leaves the Mg
hardness

Following your parameters of

: hardness: 5160
: calcium 619 x .40 = 248 ppm Ca
: magnesium 4541 x .842 x .29 = 1109 ppm Mg.

The .842 for comes form the need to convert to MgCO3 to get Mg. MgCO3 is actually
expressed as CaCO3, so we need to convert the CaCO3 to a true MgCO3 #, which is .842 and
then remove the CO3 to get Mg, the .29


These numbers are not balanced but in some mixes they aren't. The Ca should be around 400
and the Mg 1300 and that is a ratio of 3.2 : 1 and you are at 4.5 : 1, due to the high Mg

There may be something wrong with the way you are doing the test. Are you sure you did it
correctly ?



Boomer

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http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

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Please Join Our Growing Membership
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If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
: "Hardness is not something I check, personally, as Alkalinity gives us an
: indication of water hardness anyway."
:
: Calcium Hardness is the Ca level and alk does not give an indication of hardness.
: Hardness is just **expressed** as CaCO3, to calculate the Ca you just remove the
molecular
: weight of the CO3
: In seawater that hardness will not be just Ca but also Mg and Sr
:
: EX
:
: By definition, 1dGH = 10 mg/liter CaO
:
: Atomic Weight Ca = 40, O = 16, CaO = 56
:
: So 10 mg/liter CaO contains 40/56 *10 = 7.143 mg/liter of Ca
:
: By definition ppm Ca is not for elemental calcium but for ppm CaCO3.
:
: Atomic weight CaCO3 = 100
:
: So 7.143 mg/liter of elemental Ca would be expressed as 100/40 * 7.143 = 17.8575
: mg/liter(ppm)CaCO3.
:
: 1dGH = 17.86 ppm CaCO3 and 7.143 ppm Ca2+.
:
:
: You said 2600 and that means 2600 ppm CaCO3 = 365 ppm or mg / l Ca, as 26000 / 7.143 =
: 364 so it is a little low.You need to be near 3000 ppm. The conversion is 7.143, so 3000
/
: 7.143 = 420
:
:
: Your alk is about normal about 3.3 meq / l. The conversion is 17.86, so 170 / 17.86 =
9.5
: / 2.8 = 3.4 meq/ / or 9.5 dKH
:
: Something is wrong with this below
:
: "OK now i followed the directions the correct way and received the following
: hardness: 5160
: calcium 619
: magnisum 4541"
:
: "1 meg/L = 1 ppm (at least in calcium levels, I just guess the same for alk"
:
: No, that is mg / l = ppm. meq / l, as used in Alk or Ca is a whole different beast
:
: Ex
:
: 400 mg / l = 10 mmol and mmol x its charge = meq / l .And Ca has a charge of +2 = so 2
x
: 10= 20 meq / l Ca or 400 ppm or mg / l. And mmol x its molecular weight = mg / l so Ca
: has a MW of 40 and seawater has 10 mmol of Ca, so 40 x 10 = 400 mg / l
:
:
:
: --
: Boomer
:
: Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
: http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
:
: Want to See More ?
: Please Join Our Growing Membership
: www.coralrealm.com
:
: If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
: "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message ...
: : No, unfortunately it is not.
: :
: : Hardness is not something I check, personally, as Alkalinity gives us an
: : indication of water hardness anyway.
: :
: : Alkalinity should be between 8 and 11 dKH to match NSW (Natural Sea Water)
: : Magnesium should be around 1400ppm
: : Calcium should be 400 - 450ppm.
: :
: : I'd stop dosing Calcium now. Why not take your new test kits with you to the
: : LFS and have them do a sample test with you of your water and of theirs? That
: : was you could compare some of the results against a healthy reef display in
: : their care.
: :
: : Marc
: :
: :
: : Peter Pan wrote:
: :
: : > OK now i followed the directions the correct way and received the following
: : > hardness: 5160
: : > calcium 619
: : > magnisum 4541
: : >
: : > is this more in line?
: : >
: : > --
: : >
: : > "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
: : > ...
: : > > your not doing something right, your calcium is not 2600
: : > > ppm...............unless your just dosed 50 gallon of kalk and its snowing
: : > > in the tank.
: : > >
: : > > alk should be in the neighborhood of 8 dKH or 2.9 meg/L
: : > >
: : > > 1 meg/L = 1 ppm (at least in calcium levels, I just guess the same for
: : > alk,
: : > > but not sure)
: : > >
: : > > my 75 is at 15 dKH but its steady and calcium is at 420ppm.
: : > >
: : > >
: : > > either your test kit is really whacked or your doing the test
: : > wrong/reading
: : > > it wrong.
: : > >
: : > > I highly recommend salifert test kits for alk and ca. if you don't want
: : > to
: : > > get new kits get someone else to test it (lfs maybe) and see what you
: : > really
: : > > have. if its bad off its best to do a water change to get it close then
: : > add
: : > > what is needed to get it to the level you want to keep.
: : > >
: : > > after you get the levels you want to keep, you monitor it daily to see if
: : > > alk dropped, if so add part A of the B-Ionic and an equal amount of the B
: : > > part. up the dose daily till your alk levels don't drop. then test
: : > > calcium, it should be in the ball park of where it should be if not you
: : > may
: : > > have to adjust part B to fix it, then recheck the alk again to double
: : > check
: : > > it, ca effects alk and vise/versa.
: : > >
: : > > hth
: : > > kc
: : > >
: : > >
: : > >
: : > > "Peter Pan" > wrote in message
: : > > ...
: : > > > Can any one please tell me what the Alkalinity and Hardness levels
: : > should
: : > > > be. I have a 75 Gal tank
: : > > >
: : > > > I took the Alkalinity readings and got 170 ppm
: : > > > and Hardness is well over 2000 ppm and Calcium of 2600ppm
: : > > >
: : > > > Im using the Lamotte test kits and stopped after filling the solution
: : > 10X
: : > > > and the color still did not change. ( i did the test twice to enusre i
: : > was
: : > > > doing it correctly).
: : > > >
: : > > > How far off are my levels and where should they be. I have B-Ionic
: : > Calcium
: : > > > Buffer System to help with the levels... Im just not sure how much of
: : > each
: : > > > to add at this point
: : > > >
: : > > > Thanks
: : > > >
: : > > > --
: : > > >
: : > > >
: : > >
: : > >
: :
: : --
: : Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
: : Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
: : Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
: :
: :
:
: