Disappearing Clown Loaches (long)

[2pods]

Last November I purchased 4 Clown Loaches for my planted 55g tank which also
had 2 Bronze, 1 Albino, and 4 Elegans Corys, 6 Danios, 4 Adult and 3
juvenile Angels, a few Platies, and 2 SAE.

At first the CL's were pretty invisible then started to come out.
After taking up residence in a resin log (about a month later), I would only
see them in pairs (the 2 bigger ones, or the 2 smaller ones).

A month ago it was time to put out the pond fish from my 105g (also
planted), so I moved everyone except for some of the platies down to that.
We have a large resin driftwood piece in the 105g with lots of holes/caves
etc, another of the resin logs that the CL's loved, so I thought they would
go into that.....Wrong !

I hardly see them now. I see one on it's own out and about. I didn't see the
others even at feeding time.
I was so worried after a week I took out the resin driftwood which had to be
half-emptied before the clowns came out, the smallest seemed to have shrunk
to just a head and shrivelled body. This one was eventually found dead under
the filter :-( Al took shelter under the fixed internal filter (Juwel tank)
and after a while disappeared again, I'm assuming, back into the driftwood.

Could they be getting stuck in the drift wood ?
I don't want to keep stressing them by moving it all the time ?

Peter

[Mary Burns]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
> Last November I purchased 4 Clown Loaches for my planted 55g tank which
> also had 2 Bronze, 1 Albino, and 4 Elegans Corys, 6 Danios, 4 Adult and 3
> juvenile Angels, a few Platies, and 2 SAE.
>
> At first the CL's were pretty invisible then started to come out.
> After taking up residence in a resin log (about a month later), I would
> only see them in pairs (the 2 bigger ones, or the 2 smaller ones).
>
> A month ago it was time to put out the pond fish from my 105g (also
> planted), so I moved everyone except for some of the platies down to that.
> We have a large resin driftwood piece in the 105g with lots of holes/caves
> etc, another of the resin logs that the CL's loved, so I thought they
> would go into that.....Wrong !
>
> I hardly see them now. I see one on it's own out and about. I didn't see
> the others even at feeding time.
> I was so worried after a week I took out the resin driftwood which had to
> be half-emptied before the clowns came out, the smallest seemed to have
> shrunk to just a head and shrivelled body. This one was eventually found
> dead under the filter :-( Al took shelter under the fixed internal filter
> (Juwel tank) and after a while disappeared again, I'm assuming, back into
> the driftwood.
>
> Could they be getting stuck in the drift wood ?
> I don't want to keep stressing them by moving it all the time ?
>
> Peter
>I had a similar problem with my 3 clowns, thinking they were stuck in their
>castle ornament. In Juwel 260 vision tank, they went under internal filter
>when I got them out of castle. Previously, they were out all time, with 3
>cories, platies, 3 angels. I added 2 more, 5 out about for some time, then
>my first 3 went back to hiding, leaving the 2 new ones under internal
>filter. At sametime, 2 of angels starting spawning, leading to uproar in
>tank. By now, one of them was really big, 3" round body and 10" tall with
>fins. I gave the 2 spawning angels their own tank, removed the other to
>Juwel 180, with a new angel for him. The clowns suddenly appeared, out all
>the time, added 3 more little ones, and now 5 around 4" and 3 little ones
>dominate the tank. Looking back, I think the angels got so big, it
>unsettled the clowns. Being the biggest fish now with the 10 female platies
>(7 males in own tank, as angels had kept fry population under control)they
>have gone from strength to strength, always busy and active, napping at the
>front. I also added a plastic large tree trunk in centre which they love,
>so they have 3 hiding places, their castle, the treetrunk and under
>internal filter.
I don't know if this helps, but clowns are better in bigger groups, love
live bloodworm, they just can't resist it. I use turkey baster to get it
lower to gravel as platies eat so quickly as well, trying to keep them up
and the clowns down as they need more food. In my case it was the angels
stressing them, probably because of their size. My clowns are my favourite
and I will never add another angel to their tank, even when they fall out.
As long as water params are ok, one month in new tank should be enough for
them to settle by now, so just maybe it's the same problem. They are so easy
to stress out, with Ich always possible, that you could try clowns with
platies/cories and see how they get on. Mary

[2pods]

In my case it was the angels
> stressing them, probably because of their size. My clowns are my favourite
> and I will never add another angel to their tank, even when they fall out.
> As long as water params are ok, one month in new tank should be enough for
> them to settle by now, so just maybe it's the same problem. They are so
> easy to stress out, with Ich always possible, that you could try clowns
> with platies/cories and see how they get on. Mary

Thanks Mary

The only problem is apart from the cost of another sizable tank (Rio 400 is
about 5' long), I've got nowhere to put one.

The reason I had moved the Trops downstairs was because CL are my favourites
too :-)

Peter

[Mary Burns]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
> In my case it was the angels
>> stressing them, probably because of their size. My clowns are my
>> favourite and I will never add another angel to their tank, even when
>> they fall out. As long as water params are ok, one month in new tank
>> should be enough for them to settle by now, so just maybe it's the same
>> problem. They are so easy to stress out, with Ich always possible, that
>> you could try clowns with platies/cories and see how they get on. Mary
>
> Thanks Mary
>
> The only problem is apart from the cost of another sizable tank (Rio 400
> is about 5' long), I've got nowhere to put one.
>
> The reason I had moved the Trops downstairs was because CL are my
> favourites too :-)
>
> Peter
>Could you move the 55g down as well, where platies are, add the clowns in
>their log.
How do the 7 angels get on? I have 6 now, across 3 tanks. Spawning pair
with wigglers, getting better at parent raising after eating them before, in
Rio 125, 4 were in 180, but didn't get along, so 2 with male platies and the
smaller 2 in rekord 96. My clowns are my favourite because after trying to
keep angels happy, clowns are just so happy together, and not thinking about
breeding, just playing all day, living up to their name, whereas some angels
are anything but angelic!!

[Gill Passman]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
> In my case it was the angels
> > stressing them, probably because of their size. My clowns are my
favourite
> > and I will never add another angel to their tank, even when they fall
out.
> > As long as water params are ok, one month in new tank should be enough
for
> > them to settle by now, so just maybe it's the same problem. They are so
> > easy to stress out, with Ich always possible, that you could try clowns
> > with platies/cories and see how they get on. Mary
>
> Thanks Mary
>
> The only problem is apart from the cost of another sizable tank (Rio 400
is
> about 5' long), I've got nowhere to put one.
>
> The reason I had moved the Trops downstairs was because CL are my
favourites
> too :-)
>
> Peter
>
>
My 3 new Clowns are in hiding at the moment - IME they need time to settle.
They are also tending to play in the air bubbles which is that the back of
the tank which means I can't see them too well.

My previous Clown experience was that I initially had 3 that gained in
confidence after a few days - sadly one of those died with the symptoms that
you described for the one you lost - I put it down to a parasite - as
Clowns, I believe, are wild caught this is quite a high possibility. I then
added another two - these were around 4 inches long and very nervous and
ended up with Ich. It wasn't until I added another two that these larger
ones gained enough confidence to come out in the open very much - this was
around 2 months after I first got them. My bigger ones quite often got
themselves stuck into driftwood - most notably they went in and the Plec
would return from his night activities and trap them. IME if they could get
in they could get out again - unless trapped by the Plec.

I also noticed that they were very sensitive to what was going on in the
tank. Any stress would cause problems. By stress I include agresssion
between tankmates fighting or the incident of the "alpha Clown Loach being
held prisoner by the Plec" - which actually led to an outbreak of Ich.

I adopt the policy of leaving them in peace. If they are in hiding, unless I
suspect some underlying illness, I left them alone. The temptation to move
driftwood was/is great but I resist.

So I would go along with Mary on it might be other fish stressing them (keep
an eye out for any signs of Ich). My previous Clowns :-( certainly thrived
with higher numbers and I will certainly be adding more to the new 3 once
these have been through QT and move on to the Community Tank.

Gill

[2pods]

>>Could you move the 55g down as well, where platies are, add the clowns in
>>their log.
> How do the 7 angels get on? I have 6 now, across 3 tanks. Spawning pair
> with wigglers, getting better at parent raising after eating them before,
> in Rio 125, 4 were in 180, but didn't get along, so 2 with male platies
> and the smaller 2 in rekord 96. My clowns are my favourite because after
> trying to keep angels happy, clowns are just so happy together, and not
> thinking about breeding, just playing all day, living up to their name,
> whereas some angels are anything but angelic!!

Can't move the Rio 240 down as the Rio 400 takes up all of the back wall of
the living room as it is, and I think my partner might have something to say
:-)

At the moment the Rio 240 has:
all the Platys I couldn't get out (about 10, ranging from just above eating
stage to small adult), the new fish from Tri-Mar (1 very small SAE {Monty
says they're impossible to get in any size these days}, 2 Sterbai Corys {was
3 but 1 died}, 6 Bronze Corys, 6 new small Clown Loaches, and 1 small Angel
{replacement for one that was DOA}).

The Rio 400 has 3 adult Angels (rescue jobs, they could be about 3), 3 young
adult gold veiltail Angels, about 10 Platys, 4 big SAE's, 2 big and 2 small
Weather Loaches that refused to be evicted with the pond fish, 4 Elegans
Corys, 2 Bronze and 1 Albino Corys (again, rescue jobs from the same place
as the Angels),
There is a bit of argy-bargy with the Angels now and then, but nothing
serious.

Peter
>
>

[2pods]

> My previous Clown experience was that I initially had 3 that gained in
> confidence after a few days - sadly one of those died with the symptoms
> that
> you described for the one you lost - I put it down to a parasite - as
> Clowns, I believe, are wild caught this is quite a high possibility. I
> then
> added another two - these were around 4 inches long and very nervous and
> ended up with Ich. It wasn't until I added another two that these larger
> ones gained enough confidence to come out in the open very much - this was
> around 2 months after I first got them. My bigger ones quite often got
> themselves stuck into driftwood - most notably they went in and the Plec
> would return from his night activities and trap them. IME if they could
> get
> in they could get out again - unless trapped by the Plec.

I remember your CL's having Ich Gill, as mine had it at the same time.
I don't know whether to move the new ones down after their quarantine, or
once I get rid of the Platys in the small Juwel Rekord 60 (yes, more Platys.
Talk about just add water :-) ), buy more and use that tank for quarantine ?
>
> I also noticed that they were very sensitive to what was going on in the
> tank. Any stress would cause problems. By stress I include agresssion
> between tankmates fighting or the incident of the "alpha Clown Loach being
> held prisoner by the Plec" - which actually led to an outbreak of Ich.
>
> I adopt the policy of leaving them in peace. If they are in hiding, unless
> I
> suspect some underlying illness, I left them alone. The temptation to move
> driftwood was/is great but I resist.

I know. Once is too much. It's just that I worry if the have got Ich, I
wouldn't know :-)
>
> So I would go along with Mary on it might be other fish stressing them
> (keep
> an eye out for any signs of Ich). My previous Clowns :-( certainly thrived
> with higher numbers and I will certainly be adding more to the new 3 once
> these have been through QT and move on to the Community Tank.

Me too.

Peter

[Scott]

My five CL's will only eat frozen food, or hikari carnivore pellets. I think
they would rather starve than eat flake food!. Maybe that's why yours have
not been coming out to feed?

Scott

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
> Last November I purchased 4 Clown Loaches for my planted 55g tank which
> also had 2 Bronze, 1 Albino, and 4 Elegans Corys, 6 Danios, 4 Adult and 3
> juvenile Angels, a few Platies, and 2 SAE.
>
> At first the CL's were pretty invisible then started to come out.
> After taking up residence in a resin log (about a month later), I would
> only see them in pairs (the 2 bigger ones, or the 2 smaller ones).
>
> A month ago it was time to put out the pond fish from my 105g (also
> planted), so I moved everyone except for some of the platies down to that.
> We have a large resin driftwood piece in the 105g with lots of holes/caves
> etc, another of the resin logs that the CL's loved, so I thought they
> would go into that.....Wrong !
>
> I hardly see them now. I see one on it's own out and about. I didn't see
> the others even at feeding time.
> I was so worried after a week I took out the resin driftwood which had to
> be half-emptied before the clowns came out, the smallest seemed to have
> shrunk to just a head and shrivelled body. This one was eventually found
> dead under the filter :-( Al took shelter under the fixed internal filter
> (Juwel tank) and after a while disappeared again, I'm assuming, back into
> the driftwood.
>
> Could they be getting stuck in the drift wood ?
> I don't want to keep stressing them by moving it all the time ?
>
> Peter
>

[2pods]

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> My five CL's will only eat frozen food, or hikari carnivore pellets. I
> think they would rather starve than eat flake food!. Maybe that's why
> yours have not been coming out to feed?
>
> Scott
>
No that can't be it as they get frozen bloodworm, catfish pellets, and algae
wafers too, which the upstairs CL's love.

Peter

[Tynk]

Try feeding the bloodworms by hand next time.
I use a medicine dropper for feeding. The type that is used for liquid
medicine that you get at the pharmacy.
They're larger than an eye dropper, so they're better for folks with a
lot of fish to feed. An eye dropper would be better for feeding a small
amount of fish.
Squeeze out small amounts for them near the bottom of the tank, or
where they hide.
They'll quickly learn that this thing brings yummy food and is not to
be feared.
Then when they're used to it and coming out of hiding for it, start
holding it higher in the tank and putting your face near the same
level. They learn SO FAST that way that you are the God / Goddess of
the bloodworms and soon will come out and beg you for food just for
walking by the tank.
They'll soon compete with each other and the other tank mates for your
attention when at the tank.
The trick is to get them to associate your face/you with those
bloodworms and other good treats.

[2pods]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Try feeding the bloodworms by hand next time.
> I use a medicine dropper for feeding. The type that is used for liquid
> medicine that you get at the pharmacy.
> They're larger than an eye dropper, so they're better for folks with a
> lot of fish to feed. An eye dropper would be better for feeding a small
> amount of fish.
> Squeeze out small amounts for them near the bottom of the tank, or
> where they hide.
> They'll quickly learn that this thing brings yummy food and is not to
> be feared.
> Then when they're used to it and coming out of hiding for it, start
> holding it higher in the tank and putting your face near the same
> level. They learn SO FAST that way that you are the God / Goddess of
> the bloodworms and soon will come out and beg you for food just for
> walking by the tank.
> They'll soon compete with each other and the other tank mates for your
> attention when at the tank.
> The trick is to get them to associate your face/you with those
> bloodworms and other good treats.

Are these frozen bloodworms ?
If not, where would I get fresh ones ?

Bloodworm, of any description, attracts every Angel, Platy, SAE, and Danio
in the tank, so it might well be gone before th CL's get a look-in :-)

One of them is very bold. He/she is out every feeding time, it's just the
other two.

Peter

[Brad]

My Angels (OK, the subject says CLs, but hey), my Angels LOVE my brown
plastic medicine bottle! I use it to thaw the frozen cubes of bloodworms and
then poor the worms into the aquarium.

All I have to do is shake the bottle near the tank and not only do they rush
to the side of the tank, but they put their noses against it and wiggle with
anticipation, much like a puppy.

So cool.

Brad.

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Try feeding the bloodworms by hand next time.
> I use a medicine dropper for feeding. The type that is used for liquid
> medicine that you get at the pharmacy.
> They're larger than an eye dropper, so they're better for folks with a
> lot of fish to feed. An eye dropper would be better for feeding a small
> amount of fish.
> Squeeze out small amounts for them near the bottom of the tank, or
> where they hide.
> They'll quickly learn that this thing brings yummy food and is not to
> be feared.
> Then when they're used to it and coming out of hiding for it, start
> holding it higher in the tank and putting your face near the same
> level. They learn SO FAST that way that you are the God / Goddess of
> the bloodworms and soon will come out and beg you for food just for
> walking by the tank.
> They'll soon compete with each other and the other tank mates for your
> attention when at the tank.
> The trick is to get them to associate your face/you with those
> bloodworms and other good treats.
>