Angel Fish Question

[Pedro]

I have two albino angel fish. Recently I have seen that the bigger one has a
black ray in his upper fin.
I have had them since they were dime size. Anything to worry about?

[NetMax]

"Pedro" > wrote in message
. ..
>I have two albino angel fish. Recently I have seen that the bigger one
>has a black ray in his upper fin.
> I have had them since they were dime size. Anything to worry about?


Guess it's not a true albino then (pink eyes?). There are diseases which
can cause portions of their body to go black, but I don't think the
likelihood of it being that is very great. I would just watch its
behaviour, eating etc.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Pedro]

the eyes are red, it is eating well. it is lively as usual. i'll observe it.
can it be an albino with a another gene?


"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Pedro" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>I have two albino angel fish. Recently I have seen that the bigger one has
>>a black ray in his upper fin.
>> I have had them since they were dime size. Anything to worry about?
>
>
> Guess it's not a true albino then (pink eyes?). There are diseases which
> can cause portions of their body to go black, but I don't think the
> likelihood of it being that is very great. I would just watch its
> behaviour, eating etc.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

[bassett]

"The albino strain, or mutation in fish has been discussed here before,
people seem to think if the fish is a skin colour [not really white and not
really pink] then it must be albino, and retailers are quick to list them
as Albino, and charge accordingly.
Normally Albino has no colour, excepting for the eye's and in some cases
the fins in fish are pink, That's PINK, not red. The albino strain is also
a recessive genie.
And more often then not, there also barron, sterile or infertile. In
nature you might get one in a hundred, or thousand, We have a white
//Albino Humpback Whale that visits the East coast of Australia, every
year, as they travel north to the warmer waters to breed. And has done so
for a number of
years. And will continue unless the bloody Japs kill the poor thing. It
always makes the news and the local papers, and the whale watchers, all look
for it.

Any albino's eye sight is poor, and nature is not very forgiving, when it
comes to something different. Also the skin has a lot of trouble with the
tropical sun, and skin cancers are not unknown.
And regardless of what anyone tells you , you can't breed for Albino, the
odd one just appears, and your lucky if they servive.

So if you see a tank full of small Oscars, and there labelled Albino, it's
bull****.
They might resemble Albino, in some traits, but if a coloured fin or
markings appear as they mature, well you don,t have Albino. Even if you have
convinced yourself you do.

bassett

"Pedro" > wrote in message
.. .
> the eyes are red, it is eating well. it is lively as usual. i'll observe
> it. can it be an albino with a another gene?
>
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Pedro" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>I have two albino angel fish. Recently I have seen that the bigger one
>>>has a black ray in his upper fin.
>>> I have had them since they were dime size. Anything to worry about?
>>
>>
>> Guess it's not a true albino then (pink eyes?). There are diseases which
>> can cause portions of their body to go black, but I don't think the
>> likelihood of it being that is very great. I would just watch its
>> behaviour, eating etc.
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
>
>

[Tynk]

Albino Angelfish have quite a distinct look to them.
They have fleshy/white bodies that have reddish orange on the crown,
along the dorsal ridge, and into the dorsal fin. The eyes are pink.
Albino Angelfish are not purely white/flesh colored fish with pink
eyes. They have that reddish orange tint to them.

[Elaine T]

bassett wrote:
> "The albino strain, or mutation in fish has been discussed here before,
> people seem to think if the fish is a skin colour [not really white and not
> really pink] then it must be albino, and retailers are quick to list them
> as Albino, and charge accordingly.
> Normally Albino has no colour, excepting for the eye's and in some cases
> the fins in fish are pink, That's PINK, not red. The albino strain is also
> a recessive genie.
> And more often then not, there also barron, sterile or infertile. In
> nature you might get one in a hundred, or thousand, We have a white
> //Albino Humpback Whale that visits the East coast of Australia, every
> year, as they travel north to the warmer waters to breed. And has done so
> for a number of
> years. And will continue unless the bloody Japs kill the poor thing. It
> always makes the news and the local papers, and the whale watchers, all look
> for it.
>
> Any albino's eye sight is poor, and nature is not very forgiving, when it
> comes to something different. Also the skin has a lot of trouble with the
> tropical sun, and skin cancers are not unknown.
> And regardless of what anyone tells you , you can't breed for Albino, the
> odd one just appears, and your lucky if they servive.
>
> So if you see a tank full of small Oscars, and there labelled Albino, it's
> bull****.
> They might resemble Albino, in some traits, but if a coloured fin or
> markings appear as they mature, well you don,t have Albino. Even if you have
> convinced yourself you do.
>
> bassett

You seem to have albino mammals and fish confused. Mammals produce only
variants of melanin for color so albinos are without pigment. Fish
produce melanin, pteridines, purines, and carotenoids. "Albino" fish
still produce purines and carotenoids and so are not pure white with
pink eyes like mammals. They can have bright reds, blues, and greens.

Albino fish are much hardier than mammals, although still definately a
bit weaker than fish with wild-type coloration. Yes, the gene is
recessive, but two albinos crossed produce 100% albino offspring.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Tynk]

I'm speaking of Angelfish in particular, not other albino fish (which
lack any pigment as you've mentioned).
And no, I don't have albino mammals and fish confused.
If you see pictures or even specimens, they do have some orange.reddish
orange on their crown and into their dorsal.
An Angel / Discus breeder I know personally had a line of albino angels
and I've seen this coloration with my own eyes, as well in many photos
online of what I'm talking about.

[Tynk]

Here's a link explaining what I'm talking about.
You can see the orange in the photos and read about the orange crown's
I mentioned above.
http://angelsplus.com/galry-angel-a-g.htm

[Elaine T]

Tynk wrote:
> I'm speaking of Angelfish in particular, not other albino fish (which
> lack any pigment as you've mentioned).
> And no, I don't have albino mammals and fish confused.
> If you see pictures or even specimens, they do have some orange.reddish
> orange on their crown and into their dorsal.
> An Angel / Discus breeder I know personally had a line of albino angels
> and I've seen this coloration with my own eyes, as well in many photos
> online of what I'm talking about.
>
You're not confused, tnyk. Basset was writing as if whales are fish
rather than mammals. Didn't you see the attribution line at the top of
my post?

I was saying what you are - albino fish still have all of their
oranges/reds and other pigments. Those are the carotenoids that
albinism doesn't affect. You see it in angelfish, and also in those
red-striped albino oscars which are missing all of the brown. Albino
angels can also be pearlscale from the guanidines.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> Tynk wrote:
> > I'm speaking of Angelfish in particular, not other albino fish (which
> > lack any pigment as you've mentioned).
> > And no, I don't have albino mammals and fish confused.
> > If you see pictures or even specimens, they do have some orange.reddish
> > orange on their crown and into their dorsal.
> > An Angel / Discus breeder I know personally had a line of albino angels
> > and I've seen this coloration with my own eyes, as well in many photos
> > online of what I'm talking about.
> >
> You're not confused, tnyk. Basset was writing as if whales are fish
> rather than mammals. Didn't you see the attribution line at the top of
> my post?
>
> I was saying what you are - albino fish still have all of their
> oranges/reds and other pigments. Those are the carotenoids that
> albinism doesn't affect. You see it in angelfish, and also in those
> red-striped albino oscars which are missing all of the brown. Albino
> angels can also be pearlscale from the guanidines.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

I'm not entirely convinced that all albino mammals are sterile either. I
remember breeding "normal coloured" guinea pigs with albino male as a
child....some of the off-spring were albino but the majority not (I think it
was around 1 in 20) - which seems to support the recessive gene side of
things...but also negates the infertility.

Was visiting LFS today were there were many albino cats among other albino
fish which I didn't really look at....so therefore I can't believe that they
are not bred deliberately. However, I do agree, that in nature the albino is
a freak and often weaker than non-albinos so natural selection would tend to
discriminate against albinos and therefore the likelyhood of the genetic
imprint being passed on would be minimal.

Just my two pennyworth
Gill

[Tynk]

Albino critters, be it land, air or water don't often survive because
they're such easy targets for predators. It would be like wearing a
bright, flashing, neon suit saying DINNER.....COME AND GET IT!! = )~

[bassett]

I,m sorry Elaine, But when a strain is recessive, it can't also be
dominant.
Your statement is a contradiction in terms,
***Yes, the gene is recessive, but two albinos crossed produce 100% albino
offspring.****
The answer there is crossed with what,????

The simply facts are Albino are Albino, regardless orf whether there Fish,
Animals or birds. And the genetic rules apply to all. You can't
differentiate between the species. The only exception to this, would be your
countryman, M Jackson, and god only knows what colour or mutated strain he
// she //it is.

Perhaps we should agree to disagree *big smile*
bassett



"Elaine T" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> You seem to have albino mammals and fish confused. Mammals produce only
> variants of melanin for color so albinos are without pigment. Fish
> produce melanin, pteridines, purines, and carotenoids. "Albino" fish
> still produce purines and carotenoids and so are not pure white with pink
> eyes like mammals. They can have bright reds, blues, and greens.
>
> Albino fish are much hardier than mammals, although still definately a bit
> weaker than fish with wild-type coloration. Yes, the gene is recessive,
> but two albinos crossed produce 100% albino offspring.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[bassett]

I just happened to speak about the single Albino whale , as a rarity among
the hundreds of normal whales that travel up the Eastern Coast of Australia
every year.
I was not drawing a parallel between the species. And I,m quite aware that
Whales are mammals, not fish.

How does the saying go, "if it looks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, and
swims like a Duck, it's probably a Goose.
bassett

"Elaine T" > wrote in message >>
> You're not confused, tnyk. Basset was writing as if whales are fish
> rather than mammals. Didn't you see the attribution line at the top of my
> post?
--
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

bassett wrote:
> I,m sorry Elaine, But when a strain is recessive, it can't also be
> dominant.
> Your statement is a contradiction in terms,
> ***Yes, the gene is recessive, but two albinos crossed produce 100% albino
> offspring.****
> The answer there is crossed with what,????
>
> The simply facts are Albino are Albino, regardless orf whether there Fish,
> Animals or birds. And the genetic rules apply to all. You can't
> differentiate between the species. The only exception to this, would be your
> countryman, M Jackson, and god only knows what colour or mutated strain he
> // she //it is.
>
> Perhaps we should agree to disagree *big smile*
> bassett
>

I just meant when a male albino and female albino are crossed the
offspring are albino - as with any recessive, single allele gene. Sorry
I wasn't clear enough.

And you're right about the whale being an oddball and M. Jackson being
even more of one! ROFL!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com