New user... new tank...

[Rod Bacon]

G'day. I'm new to this forum and am just setting up a 4" (200L) tank. I
have had tanks before (last 2 tanks were 400L and 300L respectively)
but was always too impatient to ever achieve great results. This time
around, I'm older and wiser, and am doing things a little differently,
thanks in part to some great posts that I've read in here over the last
few months.

My tank has been running with no fish now for a week. Temperature is a
stable 25C, ph is neutral and filtration system seems to be working
well. For those who are interested, I'm running twin 1200lph internal
power filters (cheap and nasty ones) feeding a reverse undergravel
filter (I figure I have heaps of mechanical and biological filtration
with this setup). I'm also pumping a reasonable amount of air with the
prefiltered water down the UGF risers, which creates random eruptions
of air bubbles through the substrate from time to time (looks neat) and
also has the positive effect of providing ample oxygen to the bio
filter media (substrate).

This leads to my first question. Is it possible to have too much
filtration? I know the perils in using too much chemical filtration
(eg. carbon) and the effect on plants (carbon removing valuable trace
elements), but can you overdo it with circulation/oxygenation?

Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
invest in the bare minimum for the time being.

Thirdly, what do people think about the kickstart products available
from the LFS (packaged bacteria). I have heard mixed results. Would it
be better to get a cupfull of used gravel from the LFS UGF instead, or
just let nature take it's course?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Daniel Morrow]

Mid post.


"Rod Bacon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> G'day. I'm new to this forum

Welcome to the newsgroup rod!

and am just setting up a 4" (200L) tank. I
> have had tanks before (last 2 tanks were 400L and 300L respectively)
> but was always too impatient to ever achieve great results. This time
> around, I'm older and wiser, and am doing things a little differently,
> thanks in part to some great posts that I've read in here over the last
> few months.
>
> My tank has been running with no fish now for a week. Temperature is a
> stable 25C, ph is neutral and filtration system seems to be working
> well. For those who are interested, I'm running twin 1200lph internal
> power filters (cheap and nasty ones) feeding a reverse undergravel
> filter (I figure I have heaps of mechanical and biological filtration
> with this setup). I'm also pumping a reasonable amount of air with the
> prefiltered water down the UGF risers, which creates random eruptions
> of air bubbles through the substrate from time to time (looks neat) and
> also has the positive effect of providing ample oxygen to the bio
> filter media (substrate).
>
> This leads to my first question. Is it possible to have too much
> filtration? I know the perils in using too much chemical filtration
> (eg. carbon) and the effect on plants (carbon removing valuable trace
> elements), but can you overdo it with circulation/oxygenation?

My experience seems to indicate to me that too much circulation is possible.
At one time I just had a Hagen 801 power head with a sponge prefilter on it
and the tank is 15 u.s. gallons, the fancy guppies seemed to unnaturally
gather in the corner where the circulation was minimal partly due to a lot
of plastic plants being in the way and creating a dead spot or 2. I didn't
have any definite deaths from the extra circulation but my fancy guppies in
that tank soon became lethargic and kept to small spaces which didn't agree
with me so I removed the ~400 gph power head and they seemed to fully
recover and be happier. That's just my experience and in light of a couple
of my previous posts you will want to hear from others here as well to make
sure you don't don't do something that might actually be better.


>
> Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
> 4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
> platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
> my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
> and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
> operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
> invest in the bare minimum for the time being.
>
> Thirdly, what do people think about the kickstart products available
> from the LFS (packaged bacteria). I have heard mixed results. Would it
> be better to get a cupfull of used gravel from the LFS UGF instead, or
> just let nature take it's course?

Some of the packaged bacteria is too weak, try seachem's stability or better
yet ask your lfs for some pieces of their filter material that they actually
use in their tanks, I don't know about substrate (gravel) use though. Good
luck and HTH!


>
> Thanks for taking the time to read this.
>

[sophie]

Rod Bacon said this:


<snip>.
>
> This leads to my first question. Is it possible to have too much
> filtration? I know the perils in using too much chemical filtration
> (eg. carbon) and the effect on plants (carbon removing valuable trace
> elements), but can you overdo it with circulation/oxygenation?

depends on your fish... I can' imagine angels or, for example, bettas,
enjoying it very much; but fish from water with more current in it would
enjoy it a great deal. Doesn't sound like a full-on river-tank setup, but
there are a lot of fish who require well-oxygenated, moving water. Just make
sure you don't create an entire tank full of places where currents crash into
each other!
>
> Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
> 4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
> platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
> my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
> and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
> operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
> invest in the bare minimum for the time being.

ammonia. nitrate. pH. ime those strip tests are worse than useless, but
that's just me.
>
> Thirdly, what do people think about the kickstart products available
> from the LFS (packaged bacteria). I have heard mixed results. Would it
> be better to get a cupfull of used gravel from the LFS UGF instead, or
> just let nature take it's course?

if you're introducing the gravel at the same time as the fish that sounds
like a recipe for possible disease to me. If it's a great big tank with a few
very small fish in it I can't imagine you'll have any problems as long as you
keep an eye on the ammonia.


--
sophie

[Logic316]

Rod Bacon wrote:
> This leads to my first question. Is it possible to have too much
> filtration? I know the perils in using too much chemical filtration
> (eg. carbon) and the effect on plants (carbon removing valuable trace
> elements), but can you overdo it with circulation/oxygenation?

Although I've never experienced it, I remember reading in a book
somewhere a long time ago that providing excessive aeration might cause
some fish to have irritated gills. Personally, I like to use an oxygen
test kit to precisely measure the amount of dissolved oxygen in the
water, and that way I know I can safely keep my power filter turned all
the way down to eliminate noise and unnecessary current. It also saves a
little power not running any air pumps if you don't need them. If you
don't want to buy an oxygen test kit, you can do a cruder test by
keeping an eye on your fish and seeing if they frequently come to the
surface to gulp for air. If they don't, then you know you have
sufficient aeration.


> Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
> 4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
> platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
> my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
> and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
> operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
> invest in the bare minimum for the time being.

I would say the most essential test kit which no aquarist should do
without is one for measuring chlorine and chloramine, unless one has
direct access to a clean natural source of water somewhere. There's no
other reliable way to know how much of which poisons your city puts into
your tap water, and that you're properly neutralizing them so your fish
don't get sick. While you can leave a big bucket of tap water out for a
day and let chlorine outgas naturally, or just use the recommended
amount of chemical neutralizer on the bottle, you'd really only be
guessing blindly. Also, an ammonia test kit is a very good idea to use
every week or so. If you do proper regular 20-30% water changes per week
and don't overstock the tank you shouldn't (in theory) have problems
with ammonia, but it's best to be sure. The other assortment of test
kits, in my opinion, basically aren't required unless you have a
sal****er tank, are breeding fish, have fish with particular PH needs,
or you prefer to rely on a filter to keep your water clean rather than
doing frequent water changes and thus need to check it's performance
regularly.

- Logic316



"I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't
do it in the streets and frighten the horses."
-- Victor Hugo

[Derek W. Benson]

On 15 Aug 2005 20:54:53 -0700, "Rod Bacon" > wrote:

>G'day. I'm new to this forum and am just setting up a 4" (200L) tank. I
>have had tanks before (last 2 tanks were 400L and 300L respectively)
>but was always too impatient to ever achieve great results. This time
>around, I'm older and wiser, and am doing things a little differently,
>thanks in part to some great posts that I've read in here over the last
>few months.
>
>My tank has been running with no fish now for a week. Temperature is a
>stable 25C, ph is neutral and filtration system seems to be working
>well. For those who are interested, I'm running twin 1200lph internal
>power filters (cheap and nasty ones) feeding a reverse undergravel
>filter (I figure I have heaps of mechanical and biological filtration
>with this setup). I'm also pumping a reasonable amount of air with the
>prefiltered water down the UGF risers, which creates random eruptions
>of air bubbles through the substrate from time to time (looks neat) and
>also has the positive effect of providing ample oxygen to the bio
>filter media (substrate).
>
>This leads to my first question. Is it possible to have too much
>filtration? I know the perils in using too much chemical filtration
>(eg. carbon) and the effect on plants (carbon removing valuable trace
>elements), but can you overdo it with circulation/oxygenation?
>
>Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
>4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
>platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
>my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
>and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
>operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
>invest in the bare minimum for the time being.
>
>Thirdly, what do people think about the kickstart products available
>from the LFS (packaged bacteria). I have heard mixed results. Would it
>be better to get a cupfull of used gravel from the LFS UGF instead, or
>just let nature take it's course?
>
>Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I would never take gravel from a LFS for the purpose of bacteria
seeding my tank. Maybe two weeks ago there was an Ich infestation in
that tank, or there were Hydra or other weird creepy-crawlies all over
that specific tank. It would be difficult for an LFS employee to admit
to anything along these lines if asked, because then the customer
might be thinking: Well geez, I guess I'd better not buy any fish here
either.

Getting some gravel to seed your tank from someone you know is a
different matter.

What I always do if I've moved and am starting completely over is fill
up the tank with tap water, add the water conditioner, and usually the
next day get some plants and add a few fish; the last cycling fish I
used were zebra danios, and they performed as required. So obviously,
what I would do if I were you, is purchase a few fish and put them in
there and let them produce the cycling matter over a period of time.
If I were using platys or swordtails for cycling my 200 litre tank, I
would probably purchase 4; although I don't know if this is a good
number or not.

-Derek

[Elaine T]

Rod Bacon wrote:
> G'day. I'm new to this forum and am just setting up a 4" (200L) tank. I
> have had tanks before (last 2 tanks were 400L and 300L respectively)
> but was always too impatient to ever achieve great results. This time
> around, I'm older and wiser, and am doing things a little differently,
> thanks in part to some great posts that I've read in here over the last
> few months.
>
> My tank has been running with no fish now for a week. Temperature is a
> stable 25C, ph is neutral and filtration system seems to be working
> well. For those who are interested, I'm running twin 1200lph internal
> power filters (cheap and nasty ones) feeding a reverse undergravel
> filter (I figure I have heaps of mechanical and biological filtration
> with this setup). I'm also pumping a reasonable amount of air with the
> prefiltered water down the UGF risers, which creates random eruptions
> of air bubbles through the substrate from time to time (looks neat) and
> also has the positive effect of providing ample oxygen to the bio
> filter media (substrate).
>
> This leads to my first question. Is it possible to have too much
> filtration? I know the perils in using too much chemical filtration
> (eg. carbon) and the effect on plants (carbon removing valuable trace
> elements), but can you overdo it with circulation/oxygenation?

Yes to both. If the fish can't swim and are being tossed around the
tank, you've overdone it. With oxygenation, venturi setups can lead to
too much dissolved air in the water and cause fish to get gas bubble
disease. You're probably OK since you're getting big bubbles through
the UGF rather than clouds of tiny venturi bubbles (sounds kinda bizarre
looking).

> Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
> 4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
> platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
> my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
> and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
> operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
> invest in the bare minimum for the time being.

First, I think livebearers are a poor choice for cycling because they're
fairly sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. I usually cycle with
characins or the sturdier cyprinids myself. I would also cycle a 200l
tank with eight to ten 1" fish (or the equivalent of larger fish) rather
than three or four. Your cycle will take a very long time otherwise.

As for test kits, I'd say pH, ammonia, and nitrite are the most
important. Those are the ones you really need when your fish are acting
funny at 9 pm on a Sunday when everything is closed. Someone else said
chlorine/chloramine but you can find your town's chlorine levels from
the water board and dose accordingly. The bottle dose on most
dechlorinators is overkill anyway.

> Thirdly, what do people think about the kickstart products available
> from the LFS (packaged bacteria). I have heard mixed results. Would it
> be better to get a cupfull of used gravel from the LFS UGF instead, or
> just let nature take it's course?

Seachem Stability is supposed to work - I haven't tried it myself.
Avoid fish store gravel if you can. It's a pretty good recipe for trouble.

> Thanks for taking the time to read this.

You're welcome, and do take a moment to check out the FAQ.
http://faq.thekrib.com

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

"Derek W. Benson" > wrote in message
...
> On 15 Aug 2005 20:54:53 -0700, "Rod Bacon" > wrote:
>
> >G'day. I'm new to this forum and am just setting up a 4" (200L) tank. I
> >have had tanks before (last 2 tanks were 400L and 300L respectively)
> >but was always too impatient to ever achieve great results. This time
> >around, I'm older and wiser, and am doing things a little differently,
> >thanks in part to some great posts that I've read in here over the last
> >few months.
> >
> >My tank has been running with no fish now for a week. Temperature is a
> >stable 25C, ph is neutral and filtration system seems to be working
> >well. For those who are interested, I'm running twin 1200lph internal
> >power filters (cheap and nasty ones) feeding a reverse undergravel
> >filter (I figure I have heaps of mechanical and biological filtration
> >with this setup). I'm also pumping a reasonable amount of air with the
> >prefiltered water down the UGF risers, which creates random eruptions
> >of air bubbles through the substrate from time to time (looks neat) and
> >also has the positive effect of providing ample oxygen to the bio
> >filter media (substrate).
> >
> >This leads to my first question. Is it possible to have too much
> >filtration? I know the perils in using too much chemical filtration
> >(eg. carbon) and the effect on plants (carbon removing valuable trace
> >elements), but can you overdo it with circulation/oxygenation?
> >
> >Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
> >4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
> >platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
> >my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
> >and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
> >operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
> >invest in the bare minimum for the time being.
> >
> >Thirdly, what do people think about the kickstart products available
> >from the LFS (packaged bacteria). I have heard mixed results. Would it
> >be better to get a cupfull of used gravel from the LFS UGF instead, or
> >just let nature take it's course?
> >
> >Thanks for taking the time to read this.
>
> I would never take gravel from a LFS for the purpose of bacteria
> seeding my tank. Maybe two weeks ago there was an Ich infestation in
> that tank, or there were Hydra or other weird creepy-crawlies all over
> that specific tank. It would be difficult for an LFS employee to admit
> to anything along these lines if asked, because then the customer
> might be thinking: Well geez, I guess I'd better not buy any fish here
> either.
>
> Getting some gravel to seed your tank from someone you know is a
> different matter.
>
> What I always do if I've moved and am starting completely over is fill
> up the tank with tap water, add the water conditioner, and usually the
> next day get some plants and add a few fish; the last cycling fish I
> used were zebra danios, and they performed as required. So obviously,
> what I would do if I were you, is purchase a few fish and put them in
> there and let them produce the cycling matter over a period of time.
> If I were using platys or swordtails for cycling my 200 litre tank, I
> would probably purchase 4; although I don't know if this is a good
> number or not.
>
> -Derek

When I originally cycled my 200L tank, prior to sussing seeding from other
tanks, I let it stand with plants for around 2 weeks and then added 3 Blue
Spot Gouramis...waited 2 weeks and then added a few more fish. I stocked the
tank over a two month period.

The key, I believe, is to do things gradually allowing the bacteria to grow
to suit the fish load as they are added. Add too many fish at once and the
problems will be greater...and unfortutantly result can result in deaths as
the ammonia and nitrites reach toxic levels before settling down to IMO the
only acceptable levels of 0.

After recent experiences with setting up new tanks that I have "seeded" I
still think that the gradual additions is the way to go. It means I have
been able to add the first fish to the tank earlier but if I have pushed the
level I have still seen a mini cycle.

JMO
Gill

[yup]

"Rod Bacon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> G'day. I'm new to this forum and am just setting up a 4" (200L) tank. I
> have had tanks before (last 2 tanks were 400L and 300L respectively)
> but was always too impatient to ever achieve great results. This time
> around, I'm older and wiser, and am doing things a little differently,
> thanks in part to some great posts that I've read in here over the last
> few months.
>
> My tank has been running with no fish now for a week. Temperature is a
> stable 25C, ph is neutral and filtration system seems to be working
> well. For those who are interested, I'm running twin 1200lph internal
> power filters (cheap and nasty ones) feeding a reverse undergravel
> filter (I figure I have heaps of mechanical and biological filtration
> with this setup). I'm also pumping a reasonable amount of air with the
> prefiltered water down the UGF risers, which creates random eruptions
> of air bubbles through the substrate from time to time (looks neat) and
> also has the positive effect of providing ample oxygen to the bio
> filter media (substrate).
>
> This leads to my first question. Is it possible to have too much
> filtration? I know the perils in using too much chemical filtration
> (eg. carbon) and the effect on plants (carbon removing valuable trace
> elements), but can you overdo it with circulation/oxygenation?
>
> Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
> 4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
> platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
> my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
> and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
> operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
> invest in the bare minimum for the time being.
>
> Thirdly, what do people think about the kickstart products available
> from the LFS (packaged bacteria). I have heard mixed results. Would it
> be better to get a cupfull of used gravel from the LFS UGF instead, or
> just let nature take it's course?
>
> Thanks for taking the time to read this.







Is your name really Bacon?

[Rod Bacon]

Free chlorine levels are made available in test results published by my
water provider. I've looked at them, and the historic values, and am
satisfied that I can succesfully neutralise it before adding it to the
tank. I take your point about ammonia though. I am certainly planning
on getting an ammonia (and nitrate) test kit. I am not sure about the
hardness kit though. I understand the importance of hardness as a ph
buffer, and know that my water is currently too soft. Maybe I'll just
dose it up with a (hardness) buffer increaser, lower the ph back to
where it should be and then let my LFS worry about it from there. Also,
the best thing for remving chlorine is direct sunlight. If you ever
want to remove chlorine from a bucket of water, it'll go heaps faster
if you leave it in the sun.

[Rod Bacon]

Sigh. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) it is. No relation to Kevin or
Sir Francis. Not that I know of, at least.

[coolchinchilla]

Rod Bacon wrote:
<snip>
> Secondly, I'm about to kickstart my nitrogen cycle by introducing 3 or
> 4 fish. I'm a livebearer fan so I'm thinking a couple of swordtails,
> platties or mollies. I haven't tested hardness yet, though I know from
> my water company that my water is "soft". I am a bit of a cheapskate,
> and am wondering which test kits I can get away without for day-to-day
> operation. My LFS performs free water testing, so I really only want to
> invest in the bare minimum for the time being.

I think livebearers are too sensitive to cycle a tank. Can't hack
the ammonia & nitrite spikes.

You might consider instead to do a fishless cycle. It is so much
more humane rather that subjecting even hearty fish to the cycle.
Think of the burning of the ammonia and nitrates on the gills of
these fish. Sure they survive but they don't thrive.

This is a link on how to do a fishless cycle:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=15
Here is another site:
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html Search for
"fishless cycle" and you'll find plenty of explanations out there.

For a fishless cycle basically you get ammonia (w/o any sudsing or
fragrance) and dose it in the tank until you develop the nitrifying
bacteria and get it cycled. Then slowly add the fish you want (not
the sacrificial cycle fish) over the next weeks while you keep
testing to avoid a mini cycle.

>
> Thirdly, what do people think about the kickstart products available
> from the LFS (packaged bacteria). I have heard mixed results.

It depends on the product. People have said that products like
Cycle and StressZyme don't help to cycle your tank at all. However
the product Biospira does work very very well. It truly gives an
instant cycle. You add the Biospira and your desired fish at the
same time. You get it at a fish store -- it's refrigerated. --
Kind of expensive maybe $6-$8 US dollars.

Good luck.
coolchinchilla

[Gill Passman]

"Rod Bacon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Free chlorine levels are made available in test results published by my
> water provider. I've looked at them, and the historic values, and am
> satisfied that I can succesfully neutralise it before adding it to the
> tank. I take your point about ammonia though. I am certainly planning
> on getting an ammonia (and nitrate) test kit. I am not sure about the
> hardness kit though. I understand the importance of hardness as a ph
> buffer, and know that my water is currently too soft. Maybe I'll just
> dose it up with a (hardness) buffer increaser, lower the ph back to
> where it should be and then let my LFS worry about it from there. Also,
> the best thing for remving chlorine is direct sunlight. If you ever
> want to remove chlorine from a bucket of water, it'll go heaps faster
> if you leave it in the sun.
>
It's my understanding that although sunlight will remove the chlorine it
will not remove the chloramine from tap water. This is why the water still
needs to be treated/conditioned.

Personally, I would purchase fish that suit my local water rather than
messing around with changing hardness/softness and pH. In all probability
the fish available locally have been living in the same conditions anyway -
it is worth checking if the LFS makes any changes to their water or if it
differs in anyway to your own. I have liquid rock for water with a pH of
around 8 - this means that I can have a thriving Malawi cichlid tank but
can't keep Rams. Other community fish seem to do OK as the LFS water is
identical to mine.

Gill

[yup]

"Rod Bacon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Sigh. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) it is. No relation to Kevin or
> Sir Francis. Not that I know of, at least.
>


I'm a Bacon too and fondly refer to Sir Francis as my uncle Frank.
I also enjoy winding up the Shakespear lovers that Sir Francis wrote all the
Shakespear stuff!

hehehe

[Rod Bacon]

Heheheh.... an aquarist called "Gill". That's priceless.

[Steve]

Rod Bacon wrote:
> Heheheh.... an aquarist called "Gill". That's priceless.
>
Your idea never ocurred to me. I've always read her name with a soft G,
like Jill. It's interesting how people read and perceive messages.
Steve

[Gill Passman]

"Steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> Rod Bacon wrote:
> > Heheheh.... an aquarist called "Gill". That's priceless.
> >
> Your idea never ocurred to me. I've always read her name with a soft G,
> like Jill. It's interesting how people read and perceive messages.
> Steve

Maybe I should start signing myself Gillian :-)

[coolchinchilla]

Gill Passman wrote:
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Rod Bacon wrote:
>>
>>>Heheheh.... an aquarist called "Gill". That's priceless.
>>>
>>
>>Your idea never ocurred to me. I've always read her name with a soft G,
>>like Jill. It's interesting how people read and perceive messages.
>>Steve
>
>
> Maybe I should start signing myself Gillian :-)

I just came from a meeting that included a woman from the city board
of supervisors. Her first name was Gillian. :-)

coolchinchilla

[bassett]

Well it looks like we sorted that out.

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
> Gill Passman wrote:
>> "Steve" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>>Rod Bacon wrote:
>>>
>>>>Heheheh.... an aquarist called "Gill". That's priceless.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Your idea never ocurred to me. I've always read her name with a soft G,
>>>like Jill. It's interesting how people read and perceive messages.
>>>Steve
>>
>>
>> Maybe I should start signing myself Gillian :-)
>
> I just came from a meeting that included a woman from the city board of
> supervisors. Her first name was Gillian. :-)
>
> coolchinchilla