Disease problem

[marmot]

Hello, I'd be very grateful for any advice:
I have lost nearly all my fish (25 or so) to a disease - most have
large open sores, but some appear to have no visible symptoms. I had a
variety of fish, all the koi and goldfish have died as well as a couple
of shubunkins although I have 4 orfe and they appear unaffected.
The nitrite level is extremely low, the amonia almost as low but the pH
is maybe a bit too low: 6.8. The water was a little cloudy but I've done
a partial water change and fitted a larger filter (I have UV too) and
it's looking better. I've treated the water several times with
anti-ulcer / fungus and once for anti-parasite, I've also used a tonic.
The remaining fish seem a little lethargic and are not that hungry, but
are surviving. This problem has persisted for several weeks now and am
out of ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I've also treated the water with an anti blanket weed formula (non
chemical). I also have irises, bullrushes, a grass and a weed growing in
it.
My friend tells me to up the pH with sodium hydroxide he can get from
work, is this advisable?
Thanks a lot.


--
marmot

[Reel Mckoi]

"marmot" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hello, I'd be very grateful for any advice:
> I have lost nearly all my fish (25 or so) to a disease - most have
> large open sores, but some appear to have no visible symptoms.

## This sounds like ulcer disease. I got rid of it using a Lymno-Zyme.

I had a
> variety of fish, all the koi and goldfish have died as well as a couple
> of shubunkins although I have 4 orfe and they appear unaffected.
> The nitrite level is extremely low, the amonia almost as low but the pH
> is maybe a bit too low: 6.8.

## That is on the low side for GF and koi but it's a bacterial disease that
causes the ulcers.

The water was a little cloudy but I've done
> a partial water change and fitted a larger filter (I have UV too) and
> it's looking better. I've treated the water several times with
> anti-ulcer / fungus

## What did you use?

and once for anti-parasite, I've also used a tonic.
> The remaining fish seem a little lethargic and are not that hungry, but
> are surviving.

## A good medicated feed might be in order.

This problem has persisted for several weeks now and am
> out of ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated.
> P.S. I've also treated the water with an anti blanket weed formula (non
> chemical).

## What was it - if not a chemical?

I also have irises, bullrushes, a grass and a weed growing in
> it.
> My friend tells me to up the pH with sodium hydroxide he can get from
> work, is this advisable?

## It's safer to use natural products like chicken grit (oyster shells) and
limestone or a dolomite gravel. What is the PH out of your tap? Also check
out www.koivet.com for more information on ulcer disease.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
Make sure of which Cracklin' you're replying to - the TROLL from
alt.religion.jehovahs-witn is using other people's names to bypass
killfiles. There are now TWO Cracklin's and TWO Reel McKoi's posting here.
There is no limit to how low a religious fanatic will stoop to silence
someone or get an audience for themselves when ignored.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[RichToyBox]

If the pH is that low, your KH (carbonate hardness) is probably very low.
This will cause the pH to fluctuate quite a bit from morning to evening,
which is stressful to the fish. To raise the KH, which will also increase
the pH, use baking soda. Sodium hydroxide will raise the pH, but it will be
very unstable, and could raise it to the point of killing the fish. Be
careful, if you have ammonia present. Ammonia is in a non-toxic state of
ammonium at low pH, but becomes toxic at higher pH values.

I would suspect that you have, or at least had, parasites such as flukes in
the pond that have created weakness in the fish, breaks in the skin, and
allowed the bacterial infections to get started. To reduce the bad
bacterial load, you might want to try Genesyz. See
http://www.koikichi.com/info/articles/comp_exculsion.html for info. If you
can contact someone with the BKKS to have the fish scraped and
microscopically evaluated for parasite infestation and the proper course of
action to treat the pond.

Sorry to hear of your losses.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"marmot" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hello, I'd be very grateful for any advice:
> I have lost nearly all my fish (25 or so) to a disease - most have
> large open sores, but some appear to have no visible symptoms. I had a
> variety of fish, all the koi and goldfish have died as well as a couple
> of shubunkins although I have 4 orfe and they appear unaffected.
> The nitrite level is extremely low, the amonia almost as low but the pH
> is maybe a bit too low: 6.8. The water was a little cloudy but I've done
> a partial water change and fitted a larger filter (I have UV too) and
> it's looking better. I've treated the water several times with
> anti-ulcer / fungus and once for anti-parasite, I've also used a tonic.
> The remaining fish seem a little lethargic and are not that hungry, but
> are surviving. This problem has persisted for several weeks now and am
> out of ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated.
> P.S. I've also treated the water with an anti blanket weed formula (non
> chemical). I also have irises, bullrushes, a grass and a weed growing in
> it.
> My friend tells me to up the pH with sodium hydroxide he can get from
> work, is this advisable?
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
> --
> marmot

[George]

"marmot" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hello, I'd be very grateful for any advice:
> I have lost nearly all my fish (25 or so) to a disease - most have
> large open sores, but some appear to have no visible symptoms. I had a
> variety of fish, all the koi and goldfish have died as well as a couple
> of shubunkins although I have 4 orfe and they appear unaffected.
> The nitrite level is extremely low, the amonia almost as low but the pH
> is maybe a bit too low: 6.8. The water was a little cloudy but I've done
> a partial water change and fitted a larger filter (I have UV too) and
> it's looking better. I've treated the water several times with
> anti-ulcer / fungus and once for anti-parasite, I've also used a tonic.
> The remaining fish seem a little lethargic and are not that hungry, but
> are surviving. This problem has persisted for several weeks now and am
> out of ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated.
> P.S. I've also treated the water with an anti blanket weed formula (non
> chemical). I also have irises, bullrushes, a grass and a weed growing in
> it.
> My friend tells me to up the pH with sodium hydroxide he can get from
> work, is this advisable?
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
> --
> marmot

I would use sodium bicarbonate instead of sodium hydroxide because it will
not only raise your pH but will add buffers to the water to help prevent
the pH from dropping again. Adding limestone to the water will help with
long-term stability as well. Having said that, if you have a quarantine
tank (you can always set up one with a 50-gallon rubbermaid tub), I would
remove all of the fish from that pond, and treat them in the quarentine
tank for bacterial infections. I don't know if they are available in the
UK, but if you can get them, use Maracyn in conjunction with maracyn II
according to the instructions on the packages. Contuinue treatment for the
duration noted on the package. Don't stop just because they might be
looking healthier. They need the complete treatment. If they show
improvement, but still appear sick after the treatement is completed, you
may want to give them a second treatment, but only as a last resort. While
your fish are in quarantine, it would be a good time to do a thorough
cleaning of the pond and basically start from scratch, as is appears from
your description (cloudy water and the description of the fish) that the
entire pond is infected.

By the way, how long have you had this pond? A mature pond should have no
ammonia or nitrites at all (read zero levels).

[Reel Mckoi]

" George" > wrote in message
news:hTOMe.277495$xm3.170332@attbi_s21...
Having said that, if you have a quarantine
> tank (you can always set up one with a 50-gallon rubbermaid tub), I would
> remove all of the fish from that pond, and treat them in the quarentine
> tank for bacterial infections. I don't know if they are available in the
> UK, but if you can get them, ..........
=============================
Allow me to remind him/her to check the water for ammonia constantly in any
hospital tanks or holding tanks. It builds up in hours in warm weather,
especially if antibiotics are being used. When we did this hospital-tank
number a few years ago to treat ulcers (before we knew about Lymno-Zyme) I
had to do 75% water changes twice a day - quite a job in the summer heat.
All 16 died anyway. The Shop where we bought them replaced all the fish
that died for all his customers and switched wholesalers.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
Make sure of which Cracklin' you're replying to - the TROLL from
alt.religion.jehovahs-witn is using other people's names to bypass
killfiles. There are now TWO Reel McKoi's posting here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:53:48 +0000, marmot wrote:

>Hello, I'd be very grateful for any advice:
>I have lost nearly all my fish (25 or so) to a disease - most have
>large open sores, but some appear to have no visible symptoms.

Hi Marmot,

Filling out the sick fish form below would really help, that way we see the
Big Picture and have all the information in one post:

Sick Fish or Sick Pond Form (Please reply under the question, do not
delete questions, leave them blank if you don't know).

Please describe your problem, including fish characteristics, like;
whirling, flashing, gasping at surface, wounds, etc.:

Pond Size in Gallons? (litres*.26=US Gallons):

Water Source (Well, Irrigation, City?)
If City how is water treated?: =

Time in Operation?
(How old is the pond/water?):

Liner type? (EPDM,PVC,RUBBER,Cement/Concrete etc):

Fish Population?
Type? Size? QTY, Time in Pond:

Food? Type and Frequency of feedings.:

Pump Type, IN/OUT of pond, GPH etc
(Describe your filtration system as well as possible):

Prefilter media type? Last cleaned?:

Filter is BIO or Mechanical? Last cleaned? How?:

Carbon added? How much? When last changed?:

Aeration? Waterfalls? Bubblers?
Venturies?:

Water Temp?

pH?:

KH?:

Ammonia (ppm or mg/l):

Nitrite (ppm or mg/l):

Nitrate (ppm or mg/l):

Water Color, cloudiness, odor?:

Water changes? (% of pond volume and how often):

Additives used (water conditioners etc):

Tests done by self or another?:

Weather (what's it been like lately?):

Medications used?:

What Zone or Country of residence?:

~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Reel Mckoi]

marmot wrote:
> Hello, I'd be very grateful for any advice:
> I have lost nearly all my fish (25 or so) to a disease - most have
> large open sores, but some appear to have no visible symptoms.

Have you considered Alien abduction?