tips for a bottom feeder

[rc]

I've got a pond thats roughly 400-500 gallons. Plenty of fish(20) and
plenty of plants. the water is pretty clear but I'm beginning to get
concerned about too much sludge on the bottom, espescially with fall
around the corner. Does anyone have any tips on a good bottom feeder?
What happens to the waste from the bottom feeders?

-Rob

[Roy]

Waste in equals waste out no matter what consumes it. No such thing as
a critter or product that will consume botom waste and not leave more
in its path, so just grin and bear it and start mucking that mulm out
of the bottom with a vac or scoop...Its all part of the game of
ponding.
On 18 Aug 2005 06:44:26 -0700, "rc" > wrote:

>===<>I've got a pond thats roughly 400-500 gallons. Plenty of fish(20) and
>===<>plenty of plants. the water is pretty clear but I'm beginning to get
>===<>concerned about too much sludge on the bottom, espescially with fall
>===<>around the corner. Does anyone have any tips on a good bottom feeder?
>===<>What happens to the waste from the bottom feeders?
>===<>
>===<>-Rob


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Derek Broughton]

rc wrote:

> I've got a pond thats roughly 400-500 gallons. Plenty of fish(20) and
> plenty of plants. the water is pretty clear but I'm beginning to get
> concerned about too much sludge on the bottom, espescially with fall
> around the corner. Does anyone have any tips on a good bottom feeder?

What do lawyers have to do with the subject?

> What happens to the waste from the bottom feeders?

Bottom feeders eat the same things as the other fish, and the waste goes the
same place. Koi & goldfish are just as good as anything else for taking
care of any food that reaches the bottom.
--
derek

[Roy]

But if you throw a bottom feeding lawyer into that pond its gonna make
a lot more mess overall as they are know to spue lots of trash in
their method of bottom feeding...
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:21:12 -0300, Derek Broughton
> wrote:

>===<>rc wrote:
>===<>
>===<>> I've got a pond thats roughly 400-500 gallons. Plenty of fish(20) and
>===<>> plenty of plants. the water is pretty clear but I'm beginning to get
>===<>> concerned about too much sludge on the bottom, espescially with fall
>===<>> around the corner. Does anyone have any tips on a good bottom feeder?
>===<>
>===<>What do lawyers have to do with the subject?
>===<>
>===<>> What happens to the waste from the bottom feeders?
>===<>
>===<>Bottom feeders eat the same things as the other fish, and the waste goes the
>===<>same place. Koi & goldfish are just as good as anything else for taking
>===<>care of any food that reaches the bottom.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[George]

"rc" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've got a pond thats roughly 400-500 gallons. Plenty of fish(20) and
> plenty of plants. the water is pretty clear but I'm beginning to get
> concerned about too much sludge on the bottom, espescially with fall
> around the corner. Does anyone have any tips on a good bottom feeder?
> What happens to the waste from the bottom feeders?
>
> -Rob

You could try using a product like aquazyme. It is supposed to reduce the
amount of sludge build up, and apparently it does, because mine has little
if any. I've used it for about four years with good results. Another
thing you can do is to eliminate any leaves from entering the pond in the
fall by putting netting over your pond. I do this in the fall, and leave
it on until the last leaves have fallen and been raked up.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>rc wrote:
>> I've got a pond thats roughly 400-500 gallons. Plenty of fish(20) and
>> plenty of plants. the water is pretty clear but I'm beginning to get
>> concerned about too much sludge on the bottom, espescially with fall
>> around the corner. Does anyone have any tips on a good bottom feeder?
>
>Derek Broughton replied:

>What do lawyers have to do with the subject?

And I was thinking trolls. ;-)

>> What happens to the waste from the bottom feeders?

Are we truly talking critter waste here, or dirt and plant debris? Dirt
isn't going to be eaten or dissolved, but as George mentioned, a sludge
eating enzyme product will help with plant debris. The best way to get rid
of both is to have a bottom drain or uptake to remove it from the pond to a
filter (or even during partial water changes to waste outside the pond). I
added a retrofit, over-the-side bottom drain to my pond (diagram on my
website under *My Filter*). Otherwise shop vacs can do a pretty good job.
~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Reel Mckoi]

"rc" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've got a pond thats roughly 400-500 gallons. Plenty of fish(20) and
> plenty of plants. the water is pretty clear but I'm beginning to get
> concerned about too much sludge on the bottom, espescially with fall
> around the corner. Does anyone have any tips on a good bottom feeder?
> What happens to the waste from the bottom feeders?
==========================
Nothing "eats" the sludge on the pond bottom. Bacteria will live happily in
it but they don't make it go away. That's why you must remove it yourself.
Since my ponds don't have bottom drains I have a fine mulm-net that gets
some of it but we do drain and clean both ponds at least every other year.
Not only do we get to remove all the mulm on the bottom, but we get to cull
the excess fish and plants which are sold or given away.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
Make sure of which Cracklin' you're replying to - the TROLL from
alt.religion.jehovahs-witn is using other people's names to bypass
killfiles. There are now TWO Reel McKoi's posting here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[rc]

What about snails or the catfish that are sold as algae eaters ?

[George]

"rc" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> What about snails or the catfish that are sold as algae eaters ?

As far as I know, there are no species of temperate catfish that would do
the job of cleaning the bottom of a pond. This is the same problem that
Marine aquarium enthusiasts experience, since the only salt water algae
eaters besides snails are usually not suitable for a marine aquarium
because of size or other factors. However, if you live in the tropics, you
can always add a plecostomas or two. :-) (oh, if someone would only
create such a critter for use in a temperate environment). Snails are good
as scavangers, but considering the surface area of most ponds, you would
need a whole lot of snails. Unfortunately for this purpose, they also make
a tasty treat for most pond fish. My pond has snails, but they are very
small, and nearly of of them are hidden in the rocks of the waterfall where
the fish cannot get to them. And at any rate, bottom feeders produce their
own waste so while they are eating the algae, they are also adding to the
nutrient load, which will feed the next generation algae bloom.

[Reel Mckoi]

"rc" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> What about snails or the catfish that are sold as algae eaters ?
========================
Both will eat leftover food the fish miss - neither eat mulm. Some snails
will nibble algae as well as consume your pond plants. Algae eaters eat
algae, not mulm. Some of these pet shop algae eaters will also attack fish
for their slime coats.

Nothing eats fish feces and rotten leaves and other debris on the pond
bottom. This dark smelly mulm is what the bacteria worked over and over.
You either remove it or it keeps collecting. Deadly gasses can start in a
deep layer of mulm and poison your whole pond.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm

[Reel Mckoi]

" George" > wrote in message
news:jc7Ne.40258$084.8415@attbi_s22...
>
> "rc" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> What about snails or the catfish that are sold as algae eaters ?
>
> As far as I know, there are no species of temperate catfish that would do
> the job of cleaning the bottom of a pond.

$$ There is no species of catfish or snail that eats rotten broken down
plant matter and fish feces, the matter that makes up mulm.

This is the same problem that
> Marine aquarium enthusiasts experience, since the only salt water algae
> eaters besides snails are usually not suitable for a marine aquarium
> because of size or other factors. However, if you live in the tropics,
> you can always add a plecostomas or two. :-)

$$ I've had these and they do not eat mulm or fish feces either. They
scarfed some algae but mostly lived on the pellets fed the goldfish.

(oh, if someone would only
> create such a critter for use in a temperate environment). Snails are
> good as scavangers, but considering the surface area of most ponds, you
> would need a whole lot of snails. Unfortunately for this purpose, they
> also make a tasty treat for most pond fish.

$$ And they don't eat mulm.

My pond has snails, but they are very
> small, and nearly of of them are hidden in the rocks of the waterfall
> where the fish cannot get to them. And at any rate, bottom feeders
> produce their own waste so while they are eating the algae, they are also
> adding to the nutrient load, which will feed the next generation algae
> bloom.

$$ And dead algae falls to the bottom and adds to the mulm layer......
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Roy]

On 18 Aug 2005 14:12:39 -0700, "rc" > wrote:

>===<>What about snails or the catfish that are sold as algae eaters ?

Yea, they eat junk, but also leave the same in the end, and its even
more of a bio load put on the pond, so your not gaining a thing by
adding snails or algae eaters........Even in a marine environment with
filter feeders, that east microscopic crap you can't see, they stilll
make waste the same as any other critter will.........


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Derek Broughton]

George wrote:

>
> "rc" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> What about snails or the catfish that are sold as algae eaters ?
>
> As far as I know, there are no species of temperate catfish that would do
> the job of cleaning the bottom of a pond.
....
> However, if you live in the tropics, you
> can always add a plecostomas or two. :-)

No. afaik, there is simply no such thing as an "algae eater". Most of the
fish that will do this job, do it _only_ when small. Most of them become
completely omnivorous when they reach adult size. Even plecos have been
known to damage koi.

--
derek