R/O Systems...

[Malachi]

I was wondering if anybody here has and uses their own R/O system and
if they had any suggestions or practical information from experience on
what to look for in one.

I have three tanks (55, 20 and 10 gallons) and am considering getting a
bigger one (or two) and would like to produce my own R/O water so I can
be as liberal with the water changes as I feel I need to be and always
have fresh clean water on hand.

The various filter systems I see come with 2, 3, 4 and 5 stage
filteration. Are more stages really better or is it marketing
gimmicks?

Is there a good FAQ somewhere on the subject?

Thanks.

[Justin Boucher]

The key to the multiple stages is what those stages do. Depending upon your
needs, you may need more stages. Typically there are prefilters and finally
the reverse osmosis chamber. If you would like de-ionization as well, you
may very well be getting into 5 stages. The only 6 stgae RO/DI units I have
seen double up the last stage.

Unless you are drastically changing the condition of your tap water or
indend to keep specialty fish, you may not need to keep a very powerful
RO/DI unit.

Above all, read the different stages and understand what they do so that you
don't end up buying a stage you really don't need.

Justin

"Malachi" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I was wondering if anybody here has and uses their own R/O system and
> if they had any suggestions or practical information from experience on
> what to look for in one.
>
> I have three tanks (55, 20 and 10 gallons) and am considering getting a
> bigger one (or two) and would like to produce my own R/O water so I can
> be as liberal with the water changes as I feel I need to be and always
> have fresh clean water on hand.
>
> The various filter systems I see come with 2, 3, 4 and 5 stage
> filteration. Are more stages really better or is it marketing
> gimmicks?
>
> Is there a good FAQ somewhere on the subject?
>
> Thanks.
>

[Billy]

"Malachi" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I was wondering if anybody here has and uses their own R/O system
>and
> if they had any suggestions or practical information from
> experience on
> what to look for in one.
>


I have one, and don't regret the expense a bit, and the expense
wasn't that bad. I bought mine from Marc, a regular to these groups.
His website, www.melevsreef.com is a great resource in itself. See
http://www.melevsreef.com/ro_di.html For some pretty
plain-to-the-point info on RO\DI systems.

billy

[Rocco Moretti]

Malachi wrote:
> I was wondering if anybody here has and uses their own R/O system and
> if they had any suggestions or practical information from experience on
> what to look for in one.
>
> I have three tanks (55, 20 and 10 gallons) and am considering getting a
> bigger one (or two) and would like to produce my own R/O water so I can
> be as liberal with the water changes as I feel I need to be and always
> have fresh clean water on hand.
>
> The various filter systems I see come with 2, 3, 4 and 5 stage
> filteration. Are more stages really better or is it marketing
> gimmicks?
>
> Is there a good FAQ somewhere on the subject?
>
> Thanks.

The salt water guys (rec.aquarium.marine.reefs) would be a better
resource, as they routinely use RO systems. Be advised, though, that
freshwater needs are much less stringent. You probably won't need a DI
extension, for example.

That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap water
that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will accommodate
to hard water. So unless you have a specific contaminant you want to get
rid of, or are trying to breed sof****er fish, RO is probably more
effort than it's worth.

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Rocco Moretti wrote:


> That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap water
> that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will accommodate
> to hard water.

That seems to be a sales line in bad LFS: They were bread in hard water
and have accomodated to it. However, recent studies indicate that
keeping neon tetras (a typical soft water fish) in hard water causes
kidney stones even after several generations adaptation. So fishes
should be kept in water appropriate for their needs.

If however you want to adapt the water to your fishes, or buy fishes
appropriate for your water, is a different matter. The latter is
certainly both easier and cheaper.

[Elaine T]

Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
> Rocco Moretti wrote:
>
>
>
>>That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap water
>>that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will accommodate
>>to hard water.
>
>
> That seems to be a sales line in bad LFS: They were bread in hard water
> and have accomodated to it. However, recent studies indicate that
> keeping neon tetras (a typical soft water fish) in hard water causes
> kidney stones even after several generations adaptation. So fishes
> should be kept in water appropriate for their needs.
>
> If however you want to adapt the water to your fishes, or buy fishes
> appropriate for your water, is a different matter. The latter is
> certainly both easier and cheaper.

Agreed that it's easier and cheaper to buy fish that match your water,
but it sure can be limiting. Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
planted tanks?

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
> Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
> > Rocco Moretti wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap water
> >>that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will accommodate
> >>to hard water.
> >
> >
> > That seems to be a sales line in bad LFS: They were bread in hard water
> > and have accomodated to it. However, recent studies indicate that
> > keeping neon tetras (a typical soft water fish) in hard water causes
> > kidney stones even after several generations adaptation. So fishes
> > should be kept in water appropriate for their needs.
> >
> > If however you want to adapt the water to your fishes, or buy fishes
> > appropriate for your water, is a different matter. The latter is
> > certainly both easier and cheaper.
>
> Agreed that it's easier and cheaper to buy fish that match your water,
> but it sure can be limiting. Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
> 7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
> certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
> mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
> planted tanks?
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

I have 5 Peacock Gobies along with 5 Panda Corys in my Hex tank (7.5UK
gall). The Gobies are great little fish - very chilled and very pretty - max
size is around 1 inch. pH is 8 and the water is hard here - I've had them
since May with no probs at all. Added the Corys for a bit more activity but
the Gobies are great little fish - never seen them on sale again since
buying these five....The only problem I have is with feeding them - they
only take frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp or at a pinch freeze dried
daphinia - oh, and yes they like sinking catfish pellets....


Gill

[Elaine T]

Gill Passman wrote:
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
>>
>>>Rocco Moretti wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap water
>>>>that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will accommodate
>>>>to hard water.
>>>
>>>
>>>That seems to be a sales line in bad LFS: They were bread in hard water
>>>and have accomodated to it. However, recent studies indicate that
>>>keeping neon tetras (a typical soft water fish) in hard water causes
>>>kidney stones even after several generations adaptation. So fishes
>>>should be kept in water appropriate for their needs.
>>>
>>>If however you want to adapt the water to your fishes, or buy fishes
>>>appropriate for your water, is a different matter. The latter is
>>>certainly both easier and cheaper.
>>
>>Agreed that it's easier and cheaper to buy fish that match your water,
>>but it sure can be limiting. Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
>>7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
>>certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
>>mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
>>planted tanks?
>>
>>--
>>Elaine T __
>>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>
> I have 5 Peacock Gobies along with 5 Panda Corys in my Hex tank (7.5UK
> gall). The Gobies are great little fish - very chilled and very pretty - max
> size is around 1 inch. pH is 8 and the water is hard here - I've had them
> since May with no probs at all. Added the Corys for a bit more activity but
> the Gobies are great little fish - never seen them on sale again since
> buying these five....The only problem I have is with feeding them - they
> only take frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp or at a pinch freeze dried
> daphinia - oh, and yes they like sinking catfish pellets....
>

Oh - I forgot your gobies! I've not seen anything like that in LFS but
they sure would be fun to have in one of my tanks if I run across them.
Glad to hear they're doing well.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> Gill Passman wrote:
> > "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
> >>
> >>>Rocco Moretti wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap water
> >>>>that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will
accommodate
> >>>>to hard water.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>That seems to be a sales line in bad LFS: They were bread in hard water
> >>>and have accomodated to it. However, recent studies indicate that
> >>>keeping neon tetras (a typical soft water fish) in hard water causes
> >>>kidney stones even after several generations adaptation. So fishes
> >>>should be kept in water appropriate for their needs.
> >>>
> >>>If however you want to adapt the water to your fishes, or buy fishes
> >>>appropriate for your water, is a different matter. The latter is
> >>>certainly both easier and cheaper.
> >>
> >>Agreed that it's easier and cheaper to buy fish that match your water,
> >>but it sure can be limiting. Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
> >>7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
> >>certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
> >>mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
> >>planted tanks?
> >>
> >>--
> >>Elaine T __
> >>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> >>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
> >
> >
> > I have 5 Peacock Gobies along with 5 Panda Corys in my Hex tank (7.5UK
> > gall). The Gobies are great little fish - very chilled and very pretty -
max
> > size is around 1 inch. pH is 8 and the water is hard here - I've had
them
> > since May with no probs at all. Added the Corys for a bit more activity
but
> > the Gobies are great little fish - never seen them on sale again since
> > buying these five....The only problem I have is with feeding them - they
> > only take frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp or at a pinch freeze dried
> > daphinia - oh, and yes they like sinking catfish pellets....
> >
>
> Oh - I forgot your gobies! I've not seen anything like that in LFS but
> they sure would be fun to have in one of my tanks if I run across them.
> Glad to hear they're doing well.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

There are always Threadfin Rainbows - I seem to remember you suggesting
these to me as possible occupants of the Hex tank before I went for the
Gobies. I'm still tempted to get some for the 15gall once the current Ich
mess gets sorted.

Gill

[Elaine T]

Gill Passman wrote:
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>>"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Rocco Moretti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap water
>>>>>>that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will
>
> accommodate
>
>>>>>>to hard water.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That seems to be a sales line in bad LFS: They were bread in hard water
>>>>>and have accomodated to it. However, recent studies indicate that
>>>>>keeping neon tetras (a typical soft water fish) in hard water causes
>>>>>kidney stones even after several generations adaptation. So fishes
>>>>>should be kept in water appropriate for their needs.
>>>>>
>>>>>If however you want to adapt the water to your fishes, or buy fishes
>>>>>appropriate for your water, is a different matter. The latter is
>>>>>certainly both easier and cheaper.
>>>>
>>>>Agreed that it's easier and cheaper to buy fish that match your water,
>>>>but it sure can be limiting. Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
>>>>7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
>>>>certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
>>>>mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
>>>>planted tanks?
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Elaine T __
>>>>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>>>>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>>>
>>>
>>>I have 5 Peacock Gobies along with 5 Panda Corys in my Hex tank (7.5UK
>>>gall). The Gobies are great little fish - very chilled and very pretty -
>
> max
>
>>>size is around 1 inch. pH is 8 and the water is hard here - I've had
>
> them
>
>>>since May with no probs at all. Added the Corys for a bit more activity
>
> but
>
>>>the Gobies are great little fish - never seen them on sale again since
>>>buying these five....The only problem I have is with feeding them - they
>>>only take frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp or at a pinch freeze dried
>>>daphinia - oh, and yes they like sinking catfish pellets....
>>>
>>
>>Oh - I forgot your gobies! I've not seen anything like that in LFS but
>>they sure would be fun to have in one of my tanks if I run across them.
>> Glad to hear they're doing well.
>>
>>--
>>Elaine T __
>>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>
> There are always Threadfin Rainbows - I seem to remember you suggesting
> these to me as possible occupants of the Hex tank before I went for the
> Gobies. I'm still tempted to get some for the 15gall once the current Ich
> mess gets sorted.
>
> Gill
>
>
I'm pretty sure threadfins are basically soft water stream fish. They
could adapt to my water, but I'm curious what's out there that's small
and actually prefers hard water. That probably means lake fish since
rivers and streams tend to be rain-fed. There are rainbows from lakes
that like somewhat alkaline water - they're just larger fish.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Charles]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 23:00:54 GMT, Elaine T >
wrote:

>Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
>> Rocco Moretti wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap water
>>>that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will accommodate
>>>to hard water.
>>
>>
>> That seems to be a sales line in bad LFS: They were bread in hard water
>> and have accomodated to it. However, recent studies indicate that
>> keeping neon tetras (a typical soft water fish) in hard water causes
>> kidney stones even after several generations adaptation. So fishes
>> should be kept in water appropriate for their needs.
>>
>> If however you want to adapt the water to your fishes, or buy fishes
>> appropriate for your water, is a different matter. The latter is
>> certainly both easier and cheaper.
>
>Agreed that it's easier and cheaper to buy fish that match your water,
>but it sure can be limiting. Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
>7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
>certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
>mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
>planted tanks?


GH 17. Wow, I feel for you. Mine is about GH 55.

Here's a report if you want to see what good water is.<:-)

Plecos are the only thing I can think of to add to your list. Not all
of them, but some are quite addapted to hard water. Then there is the
question, which pleco is it?

There are some gobies on aquabid. Oh, add to the list the brackish
water fish, scats and monos. Maybe, I'm out of my depth here, I like
live bearers.

[Elaine T]

Charles wrote:
> GH 17. Wow, I feel for you. Mine is about GH 55.
>
> Here's a report if you want to see what good water is.<:-)
>
> Plecos are the only thing I can think of to add to your list. Not all
> of them, but some are quite addapted to hard water. Then there is the
> question, which pleco is it?
>
> There are some gobies on aquabid. Oh, add to the list the brackish
> water fish, scats and monos. Maybe, I'm out of my depth here, I like
> live bearers.

GH 55?!? What does that TASTE like? I think I'm doing the conversion
right for mine. Water company lists it as 270 ppm CaCo3 hardness.

I'll check Aquabid for the gobies. Thanks!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Charles]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 09:09:45 GMT, Elaine T >
wrote:

>Charles wrote:
>> GH 17. Wow, I feel for you. Mine is about GH 55.
>>
>> Here's a report if you want to see what good water is.<:-)
>>
>> Plecos are the only thing I can think of to add to your list. Not all
>> of them, but some are quite addapted to hard water. Then there is the
>> question, which pleco is it?
>>
>> There are some gobies on aquabid. Oh, add to the list the brackish
>> water fish, scats and monos. Maybe, I'm out of my depth here, I like
>> live bearers.
>
>GH 55?!? What does that TASTE like? I think I'm doing the conversion
>right for mine. Water company lists it as 270 ppm CaCo3 hardness.
>
>I'll check Aquabid for the gobies. Thanks!


Tastes bad. I use an under the sink RO for drinking. It works okay
for flushing toilets and for watering the garden.

[Gill Passman]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
> Gill Passman wrote:
> > "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> > m...
> >
> >>Gill Passman wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Elaine T" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Rocco Moretti wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>That said, it is unlikely that you need to use an RO system. Tap
water
> >>>>>>that you drink is pretty clean as it is, and most fish will
> >
> > accommodate
> >
> >>>>>>to hard water.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>That seems to be a sales line in bad LFS: They were bread in hard
water
> >>>>>and have accomodated to it. However, recent studies indicate that
> >>>>>keeping neon tetras (a typical soft water fish) in hard water causes
> >>>>>kidney stones even after several generations adaptation. So fishes
> >>>>>should be kept in water appropriate for their needs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>If however you want to adapt the water to your fishes, or buy fishes
> >>>>>appropriate for your water, is a different matter. The latter is
> >>>>>certainly both easier and cheaper.
> >>>>
> >>>>Agreed that it's easier and cheaper to buy fish that match your water,
> >>>>but it sure can be limiting. Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
> >>>>7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some
rainbows,
> >>>>certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
> >>>>mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
> >>>>planted tanks?
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Elaine T __
> >>>>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> >>>>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I have 5 Peacock Gobies along with 5 Panda Corys in my Hex tank (7.5UK
> >>>gall). The Gobies are great little fish - very chilled and very
pretty -
> >
> > max
> >
> >>>size is around 1 inch. pH is 8 and the water is hard here - I've had
> >
> > them
> >
> >>>since May with no probs at all. Added the Corys for a bit more activity
> >
> > but
> >
> >>>the Gobies are great little fish - never seen them on sale again since
> >>>buying these five....The only problem I have is with feeding them -
they
> >>>only take frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp or at a pinch freeze dried
> >>>daphinia - oh, and yes they like sinking catfish pellets....
> >>>
> >>
> >>Oh - I forgot your gobies! I've not seen anything like that in LFS but
> >>they sure would be fun to have in one of my tanks if I run across them.
> >> Glad to hear they're doing well.
> >>
> >>--
> >>Elaine T __
> >>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> >>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
> >
> >
> > There are always Threadfin Rainbows - I seem to remember you suggesting
> > these to me as possible occupants of the Hex tank before I went for the
> > Gobies. I'm still tempted to get some for the 15gall once the current
Ich
> > mess gets sorted.
> >
> > Gill
> >
> >
> I'm pretty sure threadfins are basically soft water stream fish. They
> could adapt to my water, but I'm curious what's out there that's small
> and actually prefers hard water. That probably means lake fish since
> rivers and streams tend to be rain-fed. There are rainbows from lakes
> that like somewhat alkaline water - they're just larger fish.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

If you do manage to track down some Peacock Gobies it has to be said I am
very fond of mine. They basically just chill in the tank, are very placid
and incredibly pretty when you look at them - I have a mix of male/femeale.
I did add the Panda Corys for a little bit more movement plus to eat up the
scraps of food left by these very fussy feeders. If you have the patience,
which I'm sure that you do, these are a great little fish to keep...maybe
I'll take some photos soon once I get the planting sorted...5 Pandas and 5
Gobies make a great well balanced tank IMO

Gill

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Elaine T wrote:

> Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
> 7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
> certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
> mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
> planted tanks?

As far as I know American-flag fish are very tolerant to water params,
from soft to brackish. With their sinteresting behaviour they would
certainly be an interesting addition to your list. Unfortunately, the
hard-water alpine fish native to Germany get quite big, so they are not
really a choice.

[Elaine T]

Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
> Elaine T wrote:
>
>
>> Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
>>7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
>>certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
>>mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
>>planted tanks?
>
>
> As far as I know American-flag fish are very tolerant to water params,
> from soft to brackish. With their sinteresting behaviour they would
> certainly be an interesting addition to your list. Unfortunately, the
> hard-water alpine fish native to Germany get quite big, so they are not
> really a choice.

Now there's a thought. Those are cool fish, although I've heard the
males are a bit scrappy. One of the local stores around here gets J.
floridae regularly. I wonder if they would share a 38 gallon outdoor
tank with the desert pupfish (Cyprinodon macularis) I'm eventually
hoping to find? Does anyone know if they jump like so many other
killies? The tank has water hyacinth and lettuce growing up and out of
it so I can't put a cover on.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Elaine T wrote:

> Dr Engelbert Buxbaum wrote:
> > Elaine T wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Freshwater fish adapted to my GH 17, pH
> >>7.8 water are rift lake cichlids, goldfish, livebearers, some rainbows,
> >>certain killies, and maybe FW puffers. At least that's what comes to
> >>mind. Can anyone think of others - especially small ones good for
> >>planted tanks?
> >
> >
> > As far as I know American-flag fish are very tolerant to water params,
> > from soft to brackish. With their sinteresting behaviour they would
> > certainly be an interesting addition to your list. Unfortunately, the
> > hard-water alpine fish native to Germany get quite big, so they are not
> > really a choice.
>
> Now there's a thought. Those are cool fish, although I've heard the
> males are a bit scrappy.

Just like in humans: Male only groups do just fine, but once you add a
skirt problems start ;-)

> I wonder if they would share a 38 gallon outdoor
> tank with the desert pupfish (Cyprinodon macularis)

Sorry, don't know that fish.