Top Off system ?

[Jim Reynolds]

Sometimes the simple things stump me and I am hoping this is one of those
cases. I am installing
a sump and would like to install a top off system. However, I am not sure
how adding water to the sump will
increase the water in the tank. If I have constant flow of water from the
tank through the sump how will a
top off system work. My common sense, which I am hoping is wrong, tells me
that tank evaporation will not
impact the sump level until it goes below the water returns in the tank (
drilled tank ). Also water evaporation in the
sump will not impact the tank level because the water flow is constant. I
must be missing something here.
Can someone explain how a top off system works or point me to a site that
explains the mechanics of the system ?

Thanks,
Jim Reynolds

[Steve \Srfmon\]

Usually, the water in your display tank is kept at a constant level by
the return pumps in the sump.
So If you remove 10 gallons of water from the main tank the water level in
your sump will drop. Top-off FW is usually added to the sump & that is also
where you want to place any sensors/float switches, since any evap. will be
detected by a float switch.
HTH

"Jim Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:o2xjb.792901$uu5.139648@sccrnsc04...
> Sometimes the simple things stump me and I am hoping this is one of those
> cases. I am installing
> a sump and would like to install a top off system. However, I am not sure
> how adding water to the sump will
> increase the water in the tank. If I have constant flow of water from
the
> tank through the sump how will a
> top off system work. My common sense, which I am hoping is wrong, tells
me
> that tank evaporation will not
> impact the sump level until it goes below the water returns in the tank (
> drilled tank ). Also water evaporation in the
> sump will not impact the tank level because the water flow is constant.
I
> must be missing something here.
> Can someone explain how a top off system works or point me to a site that
> explains the mechanics of the system ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Reynolds
>
>

[Chimera]

Let me take a crack at this.
The return pump/overflow system tries to keep the water level constant
in the tank, and will do so unless there is not enough total water
volume to "complete the circuit".
Any evaporation (or leaks ) will therefore be seen as a drop in the
sump level since the water level in the tank is constant.
Adding water to the sump will not raise the tank level- it just raises
the sump level.

Hope this helps- (I also hope it's correct).

"Jim Reynolds" > wrote in message news:<o2xjb.792901
$uu5.139648@sccrnsc04>...
> Sometimes the simple things stump me and I am hoping this is one of those
> cases. I am installing
> a sump and would like to install a top off system. However, I am not sure
> how adding water to the sump will
> increase the water in the tank. If I have constant flow of water from the
> tank through the sump how will a
> top off system work. My common sense, which I am hoping is wrong, tells me
> that tank evaporation will not
> impact the sump level until it goes below the water returns in the tank (
> drilled tank ). Also water evaporation in the
> sump will not impact the tank level because the water flow is constant. I
> must be missing something here.
> Can someone explain how a top off system works or point me to a site that
> explains the mechanics of the system ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Reynolds

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Jim,

Your display tank's water level is set by the draining overflow box. That water
level is maintained all the time, no matter what.

Your sump's water level will be the one that fluctuates as evaporation occurs.
If you use baffles in your sump, the water level will stay constant in all those
zones EXCEPT for the return zone where your return pump is located. This is the
area that will continue to lower over time.

What you want to do is this. Turn off your return pump. Allow all the water
that drains down to do so. If there is room for more water, add more to your
sump until you feel it is about to exceed your comfort level. Now turn on your
return pump again. When the sump's water level is stabilized, mark your sump
with a piece of tape or an indelible marker (Marks-A-Lot) at the water line.

Now whenever the sump gets low, you can safely add water, but no higher than
that line. The reason to not cross that line is because if you do and the power
goes out for some reason, your sump *will* overflow.

Marc


Jim Reynolds wrote:

> Sometimes the simple things stump me and I am hoping this is one of those
> cases. I am installing
> a sump and would like to install a top off system. However, I am not sure
> how adding water to the sump will
> increase the water in the tank. If I have constant flow of water from the
> tank through the sump how will a
> top off system work. My common sense, which I am hoping is wrong, tells me
> that tank evaporation will not
> impact the sump level until it goes below the water returns in the tank (
> drilled tank ). Also water evaporation in the
> sump will not impact the tank level because the water flow is constant. I
> must be missing something here.
> Can someone explain how a top off system works or point me to a site that
> explains the mechanics of the system ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Reynolds

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Jack Rabbit]

Got mail?

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
Hi Jim,

Your display tank's water level is set by the draining overflow box. That
water
level is maintained all the time, no matter what.

Your sump's water level will be the one that fluctuates as evaporation
occurs.
If you use baffles in your sump, the water level will stay constant in all
those
zones EXCEPT for the return zone where your return pump is located. This is
the
area that will continue to lower over time.

What you want to do is this. Turn off your return pump. Allow all the
water
that drains down to do so. If there is room for more water, add more to
your
sump until you feel it is about to exceed your comfort level. Now turn on
your
return pump again. When the sump's water level is stabilized, mark your
sump
with a piece of tape or an indelible marker (Marks-A-Lot) at the water line.

Now whenever the sump gets low, you can safely add water, but no higher than
that line. The reason to not cross that line is because if you do and the
power
goes out for some reason, your sump *will* overflow.

Marc


Jim Reynolds wrote:

> Sometimes the simple things stump me and I am hoping this is one of those
> cases. I am installing
> a sump and would like to install a top off system. However, I am not sure
> how adding water to the sump will
> increase the water in the tank. If I have constant flow of water from
the
> tank through the sump how will a
> top off system work. My common sense, which I am hoping is wrong, tells
me
> that tank evaporation will not
> impact the sump level until it goes below the water returns in the tank (
> drilled tank ). Also water evaporation in the
> sump will not impact the tank level because the water flow is constant.
I
> must be missing something here.
> Can someone explain how a top off system works or point me to a site that
> explains the mechanics of the system ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Reynolds

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Marc Levenson]

Why Cybil? Do you?

Marc

Jack Rabbit wrote:

> Got mail?
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Cybil]

Nope. I haven't received anything for a few hours and spam assassin is
working as usual... the RBL filters are killing quite a bit more than normal
too. Probably bounces from redirects at some floor services' web site ;).

--Cybil


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
Why Cybil? Do you?

Marc

Jack Rabbit wrote:

> Got mail?
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Marc Levenson]

Yeah, that's what it's doin'.... <grin> So you like your name, eh? <wolf
smile>

Marc


Cybil wrote:

> Nope. I haven't received anything for a few hours and spam assassin is
> working as usual... the RBL filters are killing quite a bit more than normal
> too. Probably bounces from redirects at some floor services' web site ;).
>
> --Cybil
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Cybil]

You're funny dude. About as illiterate as Ric. Well, maybe not that
illiterate ;).

The name... yeah, I always liked that movie. She was a ****ing hottie.


--Cybil



"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
Yeah, that's what it's doin'.... <grin> So you like your name, eh? <wolf
smile>

Marc


Cybil wrote:

> Nope. I haven't received anything for a few hours and spam assassin is
> working as usual... the RBL filters are killing quite a bit more than
normal
> too. Probably bounces from redirects at some floor services' web site ;).
>
> --Cybil
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Marc Levenson]

It fits you well.

Marc

Cybil wrote:

> You're funny dude. About as illiterate as Ric. Well, maybe not that
> illiterate ;).
>
> The name... yeah, I always liked that movie. She was a [expletive] hottie.
>
> --Cybil
>
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Cybil]

....in more ways than one ;).

--Cybil

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
It fits you well.

Marc

Cybil wrote:

> You're funny dude. About as illiterate as Ric. Well, maybe not that
> illiterate ;).
>
> The name... yeah, I always liked that movie. She was a [expletive] hottie.
>
> --Cybil
>
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Marc Levenson]

Yep.

Marc


Cybil wrote:

> ...in more ways than one ;).
>
> --Cybil
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[thrugoodmarshall]

"Jim Reynolds" > wrote in message news:<o2xjb.792901$uu5.139648@sccrnsc04>...
> Can someone explain how a top off system works or point me to a site that
> explains the mechanics of the system ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Reynolds

The other posters have explained it pretty succinctly.

The only thing I have to add is a suggestion of how to implement one.

I had a reef tank for about 3 years, and it did *really* well-inverts
spawning, etc. To top it off, I purchased a float valve (all plastic,
no metal at all) from a plumbing supply. I teed off of my RO filter,
and ran the hose to the sump.

Dead level all the time. Salinity never varied, never leaked or
overfilled for 3 years.

Cost a total of about$10.00, including the reducing fittings and hose.

[CapFusion]

There are two key point.
Key 1: Drain pipe or Overflow level [locate in Main Tank]
Key 2: Return pump or some kind of pump that deliever water back to Main
Tank [Sump/Refuguium etc].

Key 2 job is to maintain constant level until the Sump / Refugium volume is
either empty or pump can not deliever any water.

Key 1 will return any extra water back to Sump so it will not get overflow
unless there is a blockage.

Note:
Make sure your Main Tank can take extra water if there a problem.

Note 2:
Not recommend Top-Off but to manual add water from a resourvior or storage
tank.

Note 3:
Auto-Shut may not work or can fail and the endless supply of water will
continue flowing to the tank until overflow.

Note 4:
Call up Marc to come to your place to clean your floor when it get flood. He
may make your floor "sparkling clean".


CapFusion,...


"Chimera" > wrote in message
m...
> Let me take a crack at this.
> The return pump/overflow system tries to keep the water level constant
> in the tank, and will do so unless there is not enough total water
> volume to "complete the circuit".
> Any evaporation (or leaks ) will therefore be seen as a drop in the
> sump level since the water level in the tank is constant.
> Adding water to the sump will not raise the tank level- it just raises
> the sump level.
>
> Hope this helps- (I also hope it's correct).

[Raymond]

(thrugoodmarshall) wrote in message >...
> "Jim Reynolds" > wrote in message news:<o2xjb.792901$uu5.139648@sccrnsc04>...
> > Can someone explain how a top off system works or point me to a site that
> > explains the mechanics of the system ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jim Reynolds
>
> The other posters have explained it pretty succinctly.
>
> The only thing I have to add is a suggestion of how to implement one.
>
> I had a reef tank for about 3 years, and it did *really* well-inverts
> spawning, etc. To top it off, I purchased a float valve (all plastic,
> no metal at all) from a plumbing supply. I teed off of my RO filter,
> and ran the hose to the sump.
>
> Dead level all the time. Salinity never varied, never leaked or
> overfilled for 3 years.
>
> Cost a total of about$10.00, including the reducing fittings and hose.

I added my two cents on this subject in another thread so I guess I
just as well add it here two.

This will work well until the float valve fails. Then you have a
unlimited supply of fresh water that will not stop until you find the
failure. As long as this is quick your tank may survive. The float
valves are fairly dependable. I have heard people claim in excess of
five years and more with out problems. And I don't think they are
lying or anything but I also know that it isn't a matter of if they
will fail. It is a matter of when.

[Steve \Srfmon\]

I like my float switch....I really do. I even built a 20 gallon fresh
water reservoir. Just recently the float switch got stuck in the on position
by some caulerpa in the sump. All I can say is it's a good thing the
reservoir only had about 3 gallons of water in it. Not I don't keep more
then 6 to 8 gallons in the reservoir. That means I have to fill the
reservoir up every 3 to 4 days but at least I won't be waking up to a
totally soaked carpet.
Steve
BTW - I know a Doctor that destroyed his Beverly Hills home having his tank
hooked up to an RO unit 10 months later he is just now moving back in.
During his 7 day vacation the RO unit sprung a leak. He doesn't even know
how much water leaked. He said that the unit was installed on the second
floor & he had a 90g tank under the house (just storing it) & it was full of
water.


"Raymond" > wrote in message
om...
> (thrugoodmarshall) wrote in message
>...
> > "Jim Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:<o2xjb.792901$uu5.139648@sccrnsc04>...
> > > Can someone explain how a top off system works or point me to a site
that
> > > explains the mechanics of the system ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jim Reynolds
> >
> > The other posters have explained it pretty succinctly.
> >
> > The only thing I have to add is a suggestion of how to implement one.
> >
> > I had a reef tank for about 3 years, and it did *really* well-inverts
> > spawning, etc. To top it off, I purchased a float valve (all plastic,
> > no metal at all) from a plumbing supply. I teed off of my RO filter,
> > and ran the hose to the sump.
> >
> > Dead level all the time. Salinity never varied, never leaked or
> > overfilled for 3 years.
> >
> > Cost a total of about$10.00, including the reducing fittings and hose.
>
> I added my two cents on this subject in another thread so I guess I
> just as well add it here two.
>
> This will work well until the float valve fails. Then you have a
> unlimited supply of fresh water that will not stop until you find the
> failure. As long as this is quick your tank may survive. The float
> valves are fairly dependable. I have heard people claim in excess of
> five years and more with out problems. And I don't think they are
> lying or anything but I also know that it isn't a matter of if they
> will fail. It is a matter of when.