Going to try getting an older woman friend of mine started in fishkeeping at her request!

[Daniel Morrow]

An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought an 18
gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants to
get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as easily
as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible. Except for a recently
running air driven sponge filter I don't have any transferable media that I
could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her tank the
old fashioned way by getting feeder fish or maybe giving her one of my fancy
guppies (female first I think) for the first week then one more the next,
etc. until 4-5 weeks have passed and then start adding much more. I am
definitely going to do what I can to keep her from putting goldfish in this
tank because only one or two goldfish would be proper for such a small tank
otherwise the fish would suffer if there were more than 2, and only 2
goldfish don't really sound enticing to most people. She might buy tetras,
etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use suggestions for
an 18 gallon tank. I am not so sure fancy guppies make good feeder fish as
they are fragile and I worry about fish suffering in the case we try cycling
with them. I am thinking Jeanette and I could make a trip to the closest
good lfs occasionally to pick up different fish and set up a good community
tank for her. I am planning on giving her my original penguin bio wheel
power filter and other things I don't need but she might, before we actually
fill the tank so the cycle should finish well. I would prefer to do a
fishless cycle except for the fact that I don't want to overwhelm her or
otherwise scare her from the hobby as a fishless cycle might be too much for
her what with the measuring ammonia and doing all of the testing plus she
might elect not to purchase any test kits. So at the moment the priority is
to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the cycle. In recent
light of a previous post we will want to add fish at no more than 3 or 4 at
a time so that would mean only 2 or 3 trips to the pet store when stocking
up after the cycle because 18 gallon tanks are not that big. Jeanette loves
landscaping and is really good with plants and I am sure that she wants real
aquatic plants for the tank too even after she commented that she thinks
aquatic plants are expensive (I am not worried because I could probably give
her some of my hornwort or java fern and she will want low light plants
unless she does something different like have the tank in direct sunlight
for part of the day, I haven't pinpointed the reason yet but except for some
green spot algae during the first year of my bedroom tank and some algae
covering the wet side of the glass tops of 2 of my tanks right under the
light I have never had an algae problem, our city water is very soft and for
some reason algae and some aquatic plants never really grows in it possibly
because there isn't enough light but even then I have some plants growing
great and algae supposedly doesn't require much to thrive) and I am hoping
she can apply her knowledge of emerged (terrestrial) aquatic plants and she
could really end up very happy with her new hobby (fish keeping with
plants). Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of
plants/ etc. would be welcome. One thing to keep in mind is that I will be
doing some google searches for lists of community fish in an 18 gallon tank
and maybe fish too on google groups mostly and my books and possibly the
whole web. Thanks and I hope to read you later!

[Bill Stock]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
> An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought an 18
> gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants to
> get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
> easily
> as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible. Except for a recently
> running air driven sponge filter I don't have any transferable media that
> I
> could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her tank
> the
> old fashioned way by getting feeder fish or maybe giving her one of my
> fancy
> guppies (female first I think) for the first week then one more the next,
> etc. until 4-5 weeks have passed and then start adding much more. I am
> definitely going to do what I can to keep her from putting goldfish in
> this
> tank because only one or two goldfish would be proper for such a small
> tank
> otherwise the fish would suffer if there were more than 2, and only 2
> goldfish don't really sound enticing to most people. She might buy tetras,
> etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use suggestions
> for
> an 18 gallon tank. I am not so sure fancy guppies make good feeder fish as
> they are fragile and I worry about fish suffering in the case we try
> cycling
> with them. I am thinking Jeanette and I could make a trip to the closest
> good lfs occasionally to pick up different fish and set up a good
> community
> tank for her. I am planning on giving her my original penguin bio wheel
> power filter and other things I don't need but she might, before we
> actually
> fill the tank so the cycle should finish well. I would prefer to do a
> fishless cycle except for the fact that I don't want to overwhelm her or
> otherwise scare her from the hobby as a fishless cycle might be too much
> for
> her what with the measuring ammonia and doing all of the testing plus she
> might elect not to purchase any test kits. So at the moment the priority
> is
> to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the cycle. In
> recent
> light of a previous post we will want to add fish at no more than 3 or 4
> at
> a time so that would mean only 2 or 3 trips to the pet store when stocking
> up after the cycle because 18 gallon tanks are not that big. Jeanette
> loves
> landscaping and is really good with plants and I am sure that she wants
> real
> aquatic plants for the tank too even after she commented that she thinks
> aquatic plants are expensive (I am not worried because I could probably
> give
> her some of my hornwort or java fern and she will want low light plants
> unless she does something different like have the tank in direct sunlight
> for part of the day, I haven't pinpointed the reason yet but except for
> some
> green spot algae during the first year of my bedroom tank and some algae
> covering the wet side of the glass tops of 2 of my tanks right under the
> light I have never had an algae problem, our city water is very soft and
> for
> some reason algae and some aquatic plants never really grows in it
> possibly
> because there isn't enough light but even then I have some plants growing
> great and algae supposedly doesn't require much to thrive) and I am hoping
> she can apply her knowledge of emerged (terrestrial) aquatic plants and
> she
> could really end up very happy with her new hobby (fish keeping with
> plants). Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of
> plants/ etc. would be welcome. One thing to keep in mind is that I will be
> doing some google searches for lists of community fish in an 18 gallon
> tank
> and maybe fish too on google groups mostly and my books and possibly the
> whole web. Thanks and I hope to read you later!

Breathe Daniel, damn that was hard to read! :)

Why don't you run the filter you are going to give her on your existing tank
for a few days? Then put it on her tank.

[NetMax]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> ...
>> An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought
>> an 18
>> gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
>> to
>> get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
>> easily
>> as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible. Except for a
>> recently
>> running air driven sponge filter I don't have any transferable media
>> that I
>> could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her
>> tank the
>> old fashioned way by getting feeder fish or maybe giving her one of my
>> fancy
>> guppies (female first I think) for the first week then one more the
>> next,
>> etc. until 4-5 weeks have passed and then start adding much more. I am
>> definitely going to do what I can to keep her from putting goldfish in
>> this
>> tank because only one or two goldfish would be proper for such a small
>> tank
>> otherwise the fish would suffer if there were more than 2, and only 2
>> goldfish don't really sound enticing to most people. She might buy
>> tetras,
>> etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use
>> suggestions for
>> an 18 gallon tank. I am not so sure fancy guppies make good feeder
>> fish as
>> they are fragile and I worry about fish suffering in the case we try
>> cycling
>> with them. I am thinking Jeanette and I could make a trip to the
>> closest
>> good lfs occasionally to pick up different fish and set up a good
>> community
>> tank for her. I am planning on giving her my original penguin bio
>> wheel
>> power filter and other things I don't need but she might, before we
>> actually
>> fill the tank so the cycle should finish well. I would prefer to do a
>> fishless cycle except for the fact that I don't want to overwhelm her
>> or
>> otherwise scare her from the hobby as a fishless cycle might be too
>> much for
>> her what with the measuring ammonia and doing all of the testing plus
>> she
>> might elect not to purchase any test kits. So at the moment the
>> priority is
>> to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the cycle. In
>> recent
>> light of a previous post we will want to add fish at no more than 3 or
>> 4 at
>> a time so that would mean only 2 or 3 trips to the pet store when
>> stocking
>> up after the cycle because 18 gallon tanks are not that big. Jeanette
>> loves
>> landscaping and is really good with plants and I am sure that she
>> wants real
>> aquatic plants for the tank too even after she commented that she
>> thinks
>> aquatic plants are expensive (I am not worried because I could
>> probably give
>> her some of my hornwort or java fern and she will want low light
>> plants
>> unless she does something different like have the tank in direct
>> sunlight
>> for part of the day, I haven't pinpointed the reason yet but except
>> for some
>> green spot algae during the first year of my bedroom tank and some
>> algae
>> covering the wet side of the glass tops of 2 of my tanks right under
>> the
>> light I have never had an algae problem, our city water is very soft
>> and for
>> some reason algae and some aquatic plants never really grows in it
>> possibly
>> because there isn't enough light but even then I have some plants
>> growing
>> great and algae supposedly doesn't require much to thrive) and I am
>> hoping
>> she can apply her knowledge of emerged (terrestrial) aquatic plants
>> and she
>> could really end up very happy with her new hobby (fish keeping with
>> plants). Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists
>> of
>> plants/ etc. would be welcome. One thing to keep in mind is that I
>> will be
>> doing some google searches for lists of community fish in an 18 gallon
>> tank
>> and maybe fish too on google groups mostly and my books and possibly
>> the
>> whole web. Thanks and I hope to read you later!
>
> Breathe Daniel, damn that was hard to read! :)

LOL

<selective snip>
friend... bought an 18 gallon tank...
priority is to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the
cycle...
wants real aquatic plants...
Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of plants/
etc. would be welcome
<snipped complete> ;~)

> Why don't you run the filter you are going to give her on your existing
> tank for a few days? Then put it on her tank.

There are many 'looks' you can get in an 18g tank. Maybe a pride of
Tiger barbs (start with just 2 to cycle) as these will just pick at the
live plants. You should take your friend to where there is a good
variety to see what kind of 'look' she is interested in, and they we can
talk about tank-mates and cycling fish. The plan would not be to select
a 'cycling' fish, but to avoid sensitive fish and plan the set-up to
minimize the stress caused by cycling :o).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Daniel Morrow]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> > An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought an
18
> > gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
to
> > get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
> > easily
> > as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible. Except for a
recently
> > running air driven sponge filter I don't have any transferable media
that
> > I
> > could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her tank
> > the
> > old fashioned way by getting feeder fish or maybe giving her one of my
> > fancy
> > guppies (female first I think) for the first week then one more the
next,
> > etc. until 4-5 weeks have passed and then start adding much more. I am
> > definitely going to do what I can to keep her from putting goldfish in
> > this
> > tank because only one or two goldfish would be proper for such a small
> > tank
> > otherwise the fish would suffer if there were more than 2, and only 2
> > goldfish don't really sound enticing to most people. She might buy
tetras,
> > etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use suggestions
> > for
> > an 18 gallon tank. I am not so sure fancy guppies make good feeder fish
as
> > they are fragile and I worry about fish suffering in the case we try
> > cycling
> > with them. I am thinking Jeanette and I could make a trip to the closest
> > good lfs occasionally to pick up different fish and set up a good
> > community
> > tank for her. I am planning on giving her my original penguin bio wheel
> > power filter and other things I don't need but she might, before we
> > actually
> > fill the tank so the cycle should finish well. I would prefer to do a
> > fishless cycle except for the fact that I don't want to overwhelm her or
> > otherwise scare her from the hobby as a fishless cycle might be too much
> > for
> > her what with the measuring ammonia and doing all of the testing plus
she
> > might elect not to purchase any test kits. So at the moment the priority
> > is
> > to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the cycle. In
> > recent
> > light of a previous post we will want to add fish at no more than 3 or 4
> > at
> > a time so that would mean only 2 or 3 trips to the pet store when
stocking
> > up after the cycle because 18 gallon tanks are not that big. Jeanette
> > loves
> > landscaping and is really good with plants and I am sure that she wants
> > real
> > aquatic plants for the tank too even after she commented that she thinks
> > aquatic plants are expensive (I am not worried because I could probably
> > give
> > her some of my hornwort or java fern and she will want low light plants
> > unless she does something different like have the tank in direct
sunlight
> > for part of the day, I haven't pinpointed the reason yet but except for
> > some
> > green spot algae during the first year of my bedroom tank and some algae
> > covering the wet side of the glass tops of 2 of my tanks right under the
> > light I have never had an algae problem, our city water is very soft and
> > for
> > some reason algae and some aquatic plants never really grows in it
> > possibly
> > because there isn't enough light but even then I have some plants
growing
> > great and algae supposedly doesn't require much to thrive) and I am
hoping
> > she can apply her knowledge of emerged (terrestrial) aquatic plants and
> > she
> > could really end up very happy with her new hobby (fish keeping with
> > plants). Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists
of
> > plants/ etc. would be welcome. One thing to keep in mind is that I will
be
> > doing some google searches for lists of community fish in an 18 gallon
> > tank
> > and maybe fish too on google groups mostly and my books and possibly the
> > whole web. Thanks and I hope to read you later!
>
> Breathe Daniel, damn that was hard to read! :)

Sorry about that - :-) To bill and everyone else I am sorry if that was hard
to read - I think too fast for my hands.


>
> Why don't you run the filter you are going to give her on your existing
tank
> for a few days? Then put it on her tank.

That's a good idea but would a few days only be necessary? The talk around
here is that it takes a few weeks to seed a filter. That filter hasn't been
used for a long time. Also - what about the air driven sponge filter I
already have in my bedroom tank, would that be properly ready for her tank
in a few days? That would be preferable but I am thinking hard about putting
the penguin in one of my 2 fish tanks (the 15 gallon is a bit congested with
equipment mostly because it is a small tank to begin with). Thanks for the
comment bill - I considered what you said previously but now that I have
thought hard about it because of you I am seriously considering getting the
filter running soon this evening to prepare. Your comment is very much
appreciated. I found a set of lists (from my 1966 last printing exotic
aquarium fishes book) for small tanks of community aquariums which should
help me (us) out too. As I reflect on old techniques I am very much in awe
of what the old timers were able to accomplish back in the day when not much
if anything about good bacteria, etc. was known about. Thanks again - later!

[Daniel Morrow]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought
> >> an 18
> >> gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
> >> to
> >> get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
> >> easily
> >> as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible. Except for a
> >> recently
> >> running air driven sponge filter I don't have any transferable media
> >> that I
> >> could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her
> >> tank the
> >> old fashioned way by getting feeder fish or maybe giving her one of my
> >> fancy
> >> guppies (female first I think) for the first week then one more the
> >> next,
> >> etc. until 4-5 weeks have passed and then start adding much more. I am
> >> definitely going to do what I can to keep her from putting goldfish in
> >> this
> >> tank because only one or two goldfish would be proper for such a small
> >> tank
> >> otherwise the fish would suffer if there were more than 2, and only 2
> >> goldfish don't really sound enticing to most people. She might buy
> >> tetras,
> >> etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use
> >> suggestions for
> >> an 18 gallon tank. I am not so sure fancy guppies make good feeder
> >> fish as
> >> they are fragile and I worry about fish suffering in the case we try
> >> cycling
> >> with them. I am thinking Jeanette and I could make a trip to the
> >> closest
> >> good lfs occasionally to pick up different fish and set up a good
> >> community
> >> tank for her. I am planning on giving her my original penguin bio
> >> wheel
> >> power filter and other things I don't need but she might, before we
> >> actually
> >> fill the tank so the cycle should finish well. I would prefer to do a
> >> fishless cycle except for the fact that I don't want to overwhelm her
> >> or
> >> otherwise scare her from the hobby as a fishless cycle might be too
> >> much for
> >> her what with the measuring ammonia and doing all of the testing plus
> >> she
> >> might elect not to purchase any test kits. So at the moment the
> >> priority is
> >> to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the cycle. In
> >> recent
> >> light of a previous post we will want to add fish at no more than 3 or
> >> 4 at
> >> a time so that would mean only 2 or 3 trips to the pet store when
> >> stocking
> >> up after the cycle because 18 gallon tanks are not that big. Jeanette
> >> loves
> >> landscaping and is really good with plants and I am sure that she
> >> wants real
> >> aquatic plants for the tank too even after she commented that she
> >> thinks
> >> aquatic plants are expensive (I am not worried because I could
> >> probably give
> >> her some of my hornwort or java fern and she will want low light
> >> plants
> >> unless she does something different like have the tank in direct
> >> sunlight
> >> for part of the day, I haven't pinpointed the reason yet but except
> >> for some
> >> green spot algae during the first year of my bedroom tank and some
> >> algae
> >> covering the wet side of the glass tops of 2 of my tanks right under
> >> the
> >> light I have never had an algae problem, our city water is very soft
> >> and for
> >> some reason algae and some aquatic plants never really grows in it
> >> possibly
> >> because there isn't enough light but even then I have some plants
> >> growing
> >> great and algae supposedly doesn't require much to thrive) and I am
> >> hoping
> >> she can apply her knowledge of emerged (terrestrial) aquatic plants
> >> and she
> >> could really end up very happy with her new hobby (fish keeping with
> >> plants). Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists
> >> of
> >> plants/ etc. would be welcome. One thing to keep in mind is that I
> >> will be
> >> doing some google searches for lists of community fish in an 18 gallon
> >> tank
> >> and maybe fish too on google groups mostly and my books and possibly
> >> the
> >> whole web. Thanks and I hope to read you later!
> >
> > Breathe Daniel, damn that was hard to read! :)
>
> LOL
>
> <selective snip>
> friend... bought an 18 gallon tank...
> priority is to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the
> cycle...
> wants real aquatic plants...
> Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of plants/
> etc. would be welcome
> <snipped complete> ;~)
>
> > Why don't you run the filter you are going to give her on your existing
> > tank for a few days? Then put it on her tank.
>
> There are many 'looks' you can get in an 18g tank. Maybe a pride of
> Tiger barbs (start with just 2 to cycle) as these will just pick at the
> live plants. You should take your friend to where there is a good
> variety to see what kind of 'look' she is interested in, and they we can
> talk about tank-mates and cycling fish. The plan would not be to select
> a 'cycling' fish, but to avoid sensitive fish and plan the set-up to
> minimize the stress caused by cycling :o).
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

Thanks netmax, sorry about the LONG post I made, it's one of my quirks to
ramble on and experiment with proper communication (I do spell correctly
almost all of the time and my punctuation is usually right on except for the
use of commas so I guess that proper word to describe my language use quirk
is grammar deficiency). Thanks everyone for reading this far....Later!

[Bill Stock]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought an
> 18
>> > gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
> to
>> > get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
>> > easily
>> > as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible. Except for a
> recently
>> > running air driven sponge filter I don't have any transferable media
> that
>> > I
>> > could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her
>> > tank
>> > the
>> > old fashioned way by getting feeder fish or maybe giving her one of my
>> > fancy
>> > guppies (female first I think) for the first week then one more the
> next,
>> > etc. until 4-5 weeks have passed and then start adding much more. I am
>> > definitely going to do what I can to keep her from putting goldfish in
>> > this
>> > tank because only one or two goldfish would be proper for such a small
>> > tank
>> > otherwise the fish would suffer if there were more than 2, and only 2
>> > goldfish don't really sound enticing to most people. She might buy
> tetras,
>> > etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use suggestions
>> > for
>> > an 18 gallon tank. I am not so sure fancy guppies make good feeder fish
> as
>> > they are fragile and I worry about fish suffering in the case we try
>> > cycling
>> > with them. I am thinking Jeanette and I could make a trip to the
>> > closest
>> > good lfs occasionally to pick up different fish and set up a good
>> > community
>> > tank for her. I am planning on giving her my original penguin bio wheel
>> > power filter and other things I don't need but she might, before we
>> > actually
>> > fill the tank so the cycle should finish well. I would prefer to do a
>> > fishless cycle except for the fact that I don't want to overwhelm her
>> > or
>> > otherwise scare her from the hobby as a fishless cycle might be too
>> > much
>> > for
>> > her what with the measuring ammonia and doing all of the testing plus
> she
>> > might elect not to purchase any test kits. So at the moment the
>> > priority
>> > is
>> > to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the cycle. In
>> > recent
>> > light of a previous post we will want to add fish at no more than 3 or
>> > 4
>> > at
>> > a time so that would mean only 2 or 3 trips to the pet store when
> stocking
>> > up after the cycle because 18 gallon tanks are not that big. Jeanette
>> > loves
>> > landscaping and is really good with plants and I am sure that she wants
>> > real
>> > aquatic plants for the tank too even after she commented that she
>> > thinks
>> > aquatic plants are expensive (I am not worried because I could probably
>> > give
>> > her some of my hornwort or java fern and she will want low light plants
>> > unless she does something different like have the tank in direct
> sunlight
>> > for part of the day, I haven't pinpointed the reason yet but except for
>> > some
>> > green spot algae during the first year of my bedroom tank and some
>> > algae
>> > covering the wet side of the glass tops of 2 of my tanks right under
>> > the
>> > light I have never had an algae problem, our city water is very soft
>> > and
>> > for
>> > some reason algae and some aquatic plants never really grows in it
>> > possibly
>> > because there isn't enough light but even then I have some plants
> growing
>> > great and algae supposedly doesn't require much to thrive) and I am
> hoping
>> > she can apply her knowledge of emerged (terrestrial) aquatic plants and
>> > she
>> > could really end up very happy with her new hobby (fish keeping with
>> > plants). Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists
> of
>> > plants/ etc. would be welcome. One thing to keep in mind is that I will
> be
>> > doing some google searches for lists of community fish in an 18 gallon
>> > tank
>> > and maybe fish too on google groups mostly and my books and possibly
>> > the
>> > whole web. Thanks and I hope to read you later!
>>
>> Breathe Daniel, damn that was hard to read! :)
>
> Sorry about that - :-) To bill and everyone else I am sorry if that was
> hard
> to read - I think too fast for my hands.


Not a problem, I enjoy your enthusiastic posts.

>>
>> Why don't you run the filter you are going to give her on your existing
> tank
>> for a few days? Then put it on her tank.
>
> That's a good idea but would a few days only be necessary? The talk around
> here is that it takes a few weeks to seed a filter. That filter hasn't
> been
> used for a long time. Also - what about the air driven sponge filter I
> already have in my bedroom tank, would that be properly ready for her tank
> in a few days? That would be preferable but I am thinking hard about
> putting
> the penguin in one of my 2 fish tanks (the 15 gallon is a bit congested
> with
> equipment mostly because it is a small tank to begin with). Thanks for the
> comment bill - I considered what you said previously but now that I have
> thought hard about it because of you I am seriously considering getting
> the
> filter running soon this evening to prepare. Your comment is very much
> appreciated. I found a set of lists (from my 1966 last printing exotic
> aquarium fishes book) for small tanks of community aquariums which should
> help me (us) out too. As I reflect on old techniques I am very much in awe
> of what the old timers were able to accomplish back in the day when not
> much
> if anything about good bacteria, etc. was known about. Thanks again -
> later!

Two weeks of seed time would likely be preferable, perhaps NetMax has a
definitive answer.

[coolchinchilla]

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought an 18
> gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants to
> get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as easily
> as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible.
Help her get informed about the hobby by getting a book from the
library or purchase one from Amazon.com If she understands more,
she'll enjoy setting it up more.

>Except for a recently
> running air driven sponge filter

Yes. If you can put the seeded sponge in her tank it will greatly
decrease the time it takes to cycle. You can also try biospira -- a
product that actually does have the bacteria to instantly cycle your
tank. It is refrigerated and sold in pet stores. If you go that
route, it's important to put the birospira and a full tank of fish
in at the same time.

> I don't have any transferable media that I
> could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her tank the
> old fashioned way by getting feeder fish

I'd recommend doing a fishless cycle becasue the ammonia and nitrite
spikes burn even a hearty fish's gills.

<snip>

> She might buy tetras,
> etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use suggestions for
> an 18 gallon tank.

Glowlite tetras and head-tail light tetras are the heartier among
tetras. Neons should be only added to an established tank. They're
a bit delicate. Also tetras are schooling fish so you'd need at
least 6.

<snip>

> Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of
> plants/ etc. would be welcome.

Here is a website on suggestions for stocking new aquariums. It
also gives an indication on how hearty various fish are. Might be
helpful.
http://www.elmersaquarium.com/c106communityinfo.htm

This is the Drs. Foster & Smith website. Obviously they are
marketing their products but I find their instruction pages very
useful. Here is the index page for aquariums. You might print a
page or two for your friend to pique her interest.

http://tinyurl.com/cctod

Hope that helps.
coolchinchilla

[Daniel Morrow]

"coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
...
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
> > An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought an
18
> > gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
to
> > get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
easily
> > as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible.
> Help her get informed about the hobby by getting a book from the
> library or purchase one from Amazon.com If she understands more,
> she'll enjoy setting it up more.
>
> >Except for a recently
> > running air driven sponge filter
>
> Yes. If you can put the seeded sponge in her tank it will greatly
> decrease the time it takes to cycle. You can also try biospira -- a
> product that actually does have the bacteria to instantly cycle your
> tank. It is refrigerated and sold in pet stores. If you go that
> route, it's important to put the birospira and a full tank of fish
> in at the same time.
>
> > I don't have any transferable media that I
> > could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her tank
the
> > old fashioned way by getting feeder fish
>
> I'd recommend doing a fishless cycle becasue the ammonia and nitrite
> spikes burn even a hearty fish's gills.
>
> <snip>
>
> > She might buy tetras,
> > etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use suggestions
for
> > an 18 gallon tank.
>
> Glowlite tetras and head-tail light tetras are the heartier among
> tetras. Neons should be only added to an established tank. They're
> a bit delicate. Also tetras are schooling fish so you'd need at
> least 6.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of
> > plants/ etc. would be welcome.
>
> Here is a website on suggestions for stocking new aquariums. It
> also gives an indication on how hearty various fish are. Might be
> helpful.
> http://www.elmersaquarium.com/c106communityinfo.htm
>
> This is the Drs. Foster & Smith website. Obviously they are
> marketing their products but I find their instruction pages very
> useful. Here is the index page for aquariums. You might print a
> page or two for your friend to pique her interest.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cctod
>
> Hope that helps.
> coolchinchilla

Thanks for the info, I have decided to do the most humane thing I can do to
get her started and put the penguin bio-wheel filter I used to use (haven't
used it for a long time) on my silver dollar tank in back and it seems to be
a good place for it, so if she starts late enough (2 weeks?) she won't have
to cycle because the filter will already have been cycled. Your
elmersaquarium url will probably be very useful to me - thanks chilla!
Thanks bill for the comments. Later!

[Derek W. Benson]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:04:31 -0500, coolchinchilla
> wrote:

>Daniel Morrow wrote:
>> An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought an 18
>> gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants to
>> get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as easily
>> as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible.

>Help her get informed about the hobby by getting a book from the
>library or purchase one from Amazon.com If she understands more,
>she'll enjoy setting it up more.
>coolchinchilla

Yeah, but whatever else you do, Daniel, don't get her started on this
newsgroup, because then she'll just have massive confusion from all
her reading!

;-) Derek

[Elaine T]

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought
>>>>an 18
>>>>gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
>>>>to
>>>>get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
>>>>easily
>>>>as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible. Except for a
>>>>recently
>>>>running air driven sponge filter I don't have any transferable media
>>>>that I
>>>>could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her
>>>>tank the
>>>>old fashioned way by getting feeder fish or maybe giving her one of my
>>>>fancy
>>>>guppies (female first I think) for the first week then one more the
>>>>next,
>>>>etc. until 4-5 weeks have passed and then start adding much more. I am
>>>>definitely going to do what I can to keep her from putting goldfish in
>>>>this
>>>>tank because only one or two goldfish would be proper for such a small
>>>>tank
>>>>otherwise the fish would suffer if there were more than 2, and only 2
>>>>goldfish don't really sound enticing to most people. She might buy
>>>>tetras,
>>>>etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use
>>>>suggestions for
>>>>an 18 gallon tank. I am not so sure fancy guppies make good feeder
>>>>fish as
>>>>they are fragile and I worry about fish suffering in the case we try
>>>>cycling
>>>>with them. I am thinking Jeanette and I could make a trip to the
>>>>closest
>>>>good lfs occasionally to pick up different fish and set up a good
>>>>community
>>>>tank for her. I am planning on giving her my original penguin bio
>>>>wheel
>>>>power filter and other things I don't need but she might, before we
>>>>actually
>>>>fill the tank so the cycle should finish well. I would prefer to do a
>>>>fishless cycle except for the fact that I don't want to overwhelm her
>>>>or
>>>>otherwise scare her from the hobby as a fishless cycle might be too
>>>>much for
>>>>her what with the measuring ammonia and doing all of the testing plus
>>>>she
>>>>might elect not to purchase any test kits. So at the moment the
>>>>priority is
>>>>to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the cycle. In
>>>>recent
>>>>light of a previous post we will want to add fish at no more than 3 or
>>>>4 at
>>>>a time so that would mean only 2 or 3 trips to the pet store when
>>>>stocking
>>>>up after the cycle because 18 gallon tanks are not that big. Jeanette
>>>>loves
>>>>landscaping and is really good with plants and I am sure that she
>>>>wants real
>>>>aquatic plants for the tank too even after she commented that she
>>>>thinks
>>>>aquatic plants are expensive (I am not worried because I could
>>>>probably give
>>>>her some of my hornwort or java fern and she will want low light
>>>>plants
>>>>unless she does something different like have the tank in direct
>>>>sunlight
>>>>for part of the day, I haven't pinpointed the reason yet but except
>>>>for some
>>>>green spot algae during the first year of my bedroom tank and some
>>>>algae
>>>>covering the wet side of the glass tops of 2 of my tanks right under
>>>>the
>>>>light I have never had an algae problem, our city water is very soft
>>>>and for
>>>>some reason algae and some aquatic plants never really grows in it
>>>>possibly
>>>>because there isn't enough light but even then I have some plants
>>>>growing
>>>>great and algae supposedly doesn't require much to thrive) and I am
>>>>hoping
>>>>she can apply her knowledge of emerged (terrestrial) aquatic plants
>>>>and she
>>>>could really end up very happy with her new hobby (fish keeping with
>>>>plants). Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists
>>>>of
>>>>plants/ etc. would be welcome. One thing to keep in mind is that I
>>>>will be
>>>>doing some google searches for lists of community fish in an 18 gallon
>>>>tank
>>>>and maybe fish too on google groups mostly and my books and possibly
>>>>the
>>>>whole web. Thanks and I hope to read you later!
>>>
>>>Breathe Daniel, damn that was hard to read! :)
>>
>>LOL
>>
>><selective snip>
>>friend... bought an 18 gallon tank...
>>priority is to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the
>>cycle...
>>wants real aquatic plants...
>>Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of plants/
>>etc. would be welcome
>><snipped complete> ;~)
>>
>>
>>>Why don't you run the filter you are going to give her on your existing
>>>tank for a few days? Then put it on her tank.
>>
>>There are many 'looks' you can get in an 18g tank. Maybe a pride of
>>Tiger barbs (start with just 2 to cycle) as these will just pick at the
>>live plants. You should take your friend to where there is a good
>>variety to see what kind of 'look' she is interested in, and they we can
>>talk about tank-mates and cycling fish. The plan would not be to select
>>a 'cycling' fish, but to avoid sensitive fish and plan the set-up to
>>minimize the stress caused by cycling :o).
>>--
>>www.NetMax.tk
>>
>>
>
>
> Thanks netmax, sorry about the LONG post I made, it's one of my quirks to
> ramble on and experiment with proper communication (I do spell correctly
> almost all of the time and my punctuation is usually right on except for the
> use of commas so I guess that proper word to describe my language use quirk
> is grammar deficiency). Thanks everyone for reading this far....Later!
>
>
Heh. Long is fine. A blank line between paragraphs does wonders for
the eyes, though.

As for the tank, put the plants in as soon as you add fish! Examine
purchased plants VERY closely for snails and snail eggs, but don't
disinfect. Plants carry nitrifying bacteria on their leaves, absorb
ammonia, and can level out ammonia and nitrite so well that you barely
see a spike during the cycle. I cycled a five gallon tank with three
cardinals, a big java fern, two crypts, and three anubias. I never saw
any ammonia and only a touch of nitrite. The cardinals were perfectly
fine during the "cycle."

You also may want to set her tank up with Flourite or Eco Complete
substrate so that if she upgrades the lighting, she can grow plants more
easily. If she really wants to go the planted route, she'll need at
least 60W of compact fluorescent ligting and to plan on using Flourish
Excel or C02.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Derek W. Benson]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:26:06 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the info, I have decided to do the most humane thing I can do to
>get her started and put the penguin bio-wheel filter I used to use (haven't
>used it for a long time) on my silver dollar tank in back and it seems to be
>a good place for it, so if she starts late enough (2 weeks?) she won't have
>to cycle because the filter will already have been cycled. Your
>elmersaquarium url will probably be very useful to me - thanks chilla!
>Thanks bill for the comments. Later!
>
What you're saying here just isn't true, Daniel. Her tank will not be
cycled because you put a filter in it from your tank. All you can do
is seed her tank with the bacteria from your filter, giving these
bacteria a jump start. On day one, the day you put the filter on the
tank, there will be larger numbers of the bacteria that will start
spreading out throughout the tank, yes, but you need millions and
millions more of the critters throughout the tank before you can say
that the tank is "cycled". And for these bacteria to reproduce into
larger numbers, they need a food source, ammonia from fish already in
the tank.

Whatever else you do, DO NOT put your filter on her tank and then let
it stay there for two weeks with no fish. This is how I read what you
stated above. What will happen then is that the bacteria in the fiter
that you're seeding into her tank will have no food and they will die
off.

What you want to do is: Day one: Fill her tank with water, using
dechlor, dechloramine, de-heavy metal water conditioner. Not using
anything else like stress-coat or blah-blah other stuff the stores
insist that you need. If there were some other filter that came with
the tank, start this up together with the heater. Let this stand
overnight.

Day two: Put your filter on the tank and introduce the first fish
shortly thereafter, this can be two minutes later or two hours later.
I would probably use three fish in this sized tank, zebra or other
danios, or one of the smaller barbs like the gold or cherry barb, but
really, she can use almost any fish as long as there's only two or
three. It may be that because you're seeding with bacteria in your
filter, the three fish I recommend are not enough fish to provide
ammonia for these bacteria, that you should use 5 or 6 fish to provide
enough food for the bacteria to keep going and reproducing. I really
don't know what the correct number of fish is.

Some plants should also be put in the tank the same day with the fish,
preferably before the fish of course. As many as you're able to give
her or she's able to purchase.

In the weeks to come she should do water changes, gravel vacuuming
just as you do it, nothing "special" or different because the tank
happens to be "cycling".

In three or four weeks, maybe five, she can add a few more fish, a few
weeks after, a few more. Etc.

-Derek

[Gill Passman]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "coolchinchilla" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Daniel Morrow wrote:
> > > An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought
an
> 18
> > > gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
> to
> > > get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
> easily
> > > as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible.
> > Help her get informed about the hobby by getting a book from the
> > library or purchase one from Amazon.com If she understands more,
> > she'll enjoy setting it up more.
> >
> > >Except for a recently
> > > running air driven sponge filter
> >
> > Yes. If you can put the seeded sponge in her tank it will greatly
> > decrease the time it takes to cycle. You can also try biospira -- a
> > product that actually does have the bacteria to instantly cycle your
> > tank. It is refrigerated and sold in pet stores. If you go that
> > route, it's important to put the birospira and a full tank of fish
> > in at the same time.
> >
> > > I don't have any transferable media that I
> > > could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her
tank
> the
> > > old fashioned way by getting feeder fish
> >
> > I'd recommend doing a fishless cycle becasue the ammonia and nitrite
> > spikes burn even a hearty fish's gills.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > She might buy tetras,
> > > etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use
suggestions
> for
> > > an 18 gallon tank.
> >
> > Glowlite tetras and head-tail light tetras are the heartier among
> > tetras. Neons should be only added to an established tank. They're
> > a bit delicate. Also tetras are schooling fish so you'd need at
> > least 6.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of
> > > plants/ etc. would be welcome.
> >
> > Here is a website on suggestions for stocking new aquariums. It
> > also gives an indication on how hearty various fish are. Might be
> > helpful.
> > http://www.elmersaquarium.com/c106communityinfo.htm
> >
> > This is the Drs. Foster & Smith website. Obviously they are
> > marketing their products but I find their instruction pages very
> > useful. Here is the index page for aquariums. You might print a
> > page or two for your friend to pique her interest.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/cctod
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > coolchinchilla
>
> Thanks for the info, I have decided to do the most humane thing I can do
to
> get her started and put the penguin bio-wheel filter I used to use
(haven't
> used it for a long time) on my silver dollar tank in back and it seems to
be
> a good place for it, so if she starts late enough (2 weeks?) she won't
have
> to cycle because the filter will already have been cycled. Your
> elmersaquarium url will probably be very useful to me - thanks chilla!
> Thanks bill for the comments. Later!
>
>
I'd still only add the fish slowly after kickstarting the filter this way.
I've had mixed success with using this method...the bacteria grown in the
filter, I believe, will only be supplementing that in the existing tank so
although you will have some bacteria it probably would not support a full
tank of fish immediately.....but it should support a small fish load.

Gill

[NetMax]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote...
> "NetMax" > wrote...
>> "Bill Stock" > wrote...>
>> > "Daniel Morrow" > wrote...
<snip>Thanks and I hope to read you later!

>> > Breathe Daniel, damn that was hard to read! :)
>>
>> <selective snip>
>> friend... bought an 18 gallon tank...
>> priority is to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after
>> the
>> cycle...
>> wants real aquatic plants...
>> Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of
>> plants/
>> etc. would be welcome
>> <snipped complete> ;~)
>>
>> > Why don't you run the filter you are going to give her on your
>> > existing
>> > tank for a few days? Then put it on her tank.
>>
>> There are many 'looks' you can get in an 18g tank. Maybe a pride of
>> Tiger barbs (start with just 2 to cycle) as these will just pick at
>> the
>> live plants. You should take your friend to where there is a good
>> variety to see what kind of 'look' she is interested in, and they we
>> can
>> talk about tank-mates and cycling fish. The plan would not be to
>> select
>> a 'cycling' fish, but to avoid sensitive fish and plan the set-up to
>> minimize the stress caused by cycling :o).
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
> Thanks netmax, sorry about the LONG post I made, it's one of my quirks
> to
> ramble on and experiment with proper communication (I do spell
> correctly
> almost all of the time and my punctuation is usually right on except
> for the
> use of commas so I guess that proper word to describe my language use
> quirk
> is grammar deficiency). Thanks everyone for reading this far....Later!

Daniel, no worries :o). I tend to be verbose too.

Bill, sorry, nothing definitive. I've never seen any data on seeding
time, and if there was, it would still be quite circumstantial. A
bio-wheel on a feeder tank, or tank of large cichlids would probably be
well-populated in 2 weeks, but on a home community tank? anyone's guess.

The best is to take it empirically, using aged filter media, ornaments,
rocks, bit of gravel you minimize the cycle, and then just take your
measurements. You can always cheat with some Biospira bacteria starter,
and then introduce all the fish at the same time, effectively making the
tank into a quarantine tank, and reducing the number of disease vectors
which come from introducing fish slowly.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Daniel Morrow]

"Derek W. Benson" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:26:06 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
> >Thanks for the info, I have decided to do the most humane thing I can do
to
> >get her started and put the penguin bio-wheel filter I used to use
(haven't
> >used it for a long time) on my silver dollar tank in back and it seems to
be
> >a good place for it, so if she starts late enough (2 weeks?) she won't
have
> >to cycle because the filter will already have been cycled. Your
> >elmersaquarium url will probably be very useful to me - thanks chilla!
> >Thanks bill for the comments. Later!
> >
> What you're saying here just isn't true, Daniel. Her tank will not be
> cycled because you put a filter in it from your tank. All you can do
> is seed her tank with the bacteria from your filter, giving these
> bacteria a jump start. On day one, the day you put the filter on the
> tank, there will be larger numbers of the bacteria that will start
> spreading out throughout the tank, yes, but you need millions and
> millions more of the critters throughout the tank before you can say
> that the tank is "cycled". And for these bacteria to reproduce into
> larger numbers, they need a food source, ammonia from fish already in
> the tank.
>
> Whatever else you do, DO NOT put your filter on her tank and then let
> it stay there for two weeks with no fish. This is how I read what you
> stated above. What will happen then is that the bacteria in the fiter
> that you're seeding into her tank will have no food and they will die
> off.
>
> What you want to do is: Day one: Fill her tank with water, using
> dechlor, dechloramine, de-heavy metal water conditioner. Not using
> anything else like stress-coat or blah-blah other stuff the stores
> insist that you need. If there were some other filter that came with
> the tank, start this up together with the heater. Let this stand
> overnight.
>
> Day two: Put your filter on the tank and introduce the first fish
> shortly thereafter, this can be two minutes later or two hours later.
> I would probably use three fish in this sized tank, zebra or other
> danios, or one of the smaller barbs like the gold or cherry barb, but
> really, she can use almost any fish as long as there's only two or
> three. It may be that because you're seeding with bacteria in your
> filter, the three fish I recommend are not enough fish to provide
> ammonia for these bacteria, that you should use 5 or 6 fish to provide
> enough food for the bacteria to keep going and reproducing. I really
> don't know what the correct number of fish is.
>
> Some plants should also be put in the tank the same day with the fish,
> preferably before the fish of course. As many as you're able to give
> her or she's able to purchase.
>
> In the weeks to come she should do water changes, gravel vacuuming
> just as you do it, nothing "special" or different because the tank
> happens to be "cycling".
>
> In three or four weeks, maybe five, she can add a few more fish, a few
> weeks after, a few more. Etc.
>
> -Derek

Thanks for the details Derek. It is my-bad about my post not properly
communicating my thoughts, I was not going to put the filter on her tank and
wait 2 weeks then add fish. I already understood that I need to put the
filter in action on her tank immediately before fish are added, to prevent
the good bacteria from dying off from starvation from not being about to eat
ammonia because there is none in that scenario. Thanks so much for the fish
recommendations too. You did teach me a few things as well that I
appreciate. Don't worry - I won't let the filter just sit there, I mean't by
2 weeks that I would have the filter running in my tank for 2 weeks before
transferring it to her tank, to make sure it is populated first and we would
get the fish put in right after introducing the filter first. I did learn
from you that the tank wouldn't be cycled just because I put in a populated
media filter but from my other experience/estimation it does help the tank
tremendously and I think I will do as you recommend and we will get 5 or 6
small fish (one of the kind you recommend, so far probably danios) when we
first introduce the filter, then add a few more fish a couple of weeks after
that. She will be doing decent water changes and all other maintenance all
of us as a group here call mandatory. Thanks, later!

[Daniel Morrow]

"Derek W. Benson" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:04:31 -0500, coolchinchilla
> > wrote:
>
> >Daniel Morrow wrote:
> >> An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought an
18
> >> gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
to
> >> get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
easily
> >> as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible.
>
> >Help her get informed about the hobby by getting a book from the
> >library or purchase one from Amazon.com If she understands more,
> >she'll enjoy setting it up more.
> >coolchinchilla
>
> Yeah, but whatever else you do, Daniel, don't get her started on this
> newsgroup, because then she'll just have massive confusion from all
> her reading!
>
> ;-) Derek

Don't worry, it will just be our (all of our group's) little secret! :-0
Semi-seriously though - she doesn't have an internet provider right now and
isn't enough of a computer geek for me to not have enough time to warn you!
:-)

[Daniel Morrow]

Mid posted.


"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
> > "NetMax" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>>"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>>An older woman friend of mine (Jeanette) recently told me she bought
> >>>>an 18
> >>>>gallon tank for $4.00 U.S. dollars at a garage sale and says she wants
> >>>>to
> >>>>get some pet fish. I would like any opinions on how I can help to as
> >>>>easily
> >>>>as possibly get her tank set up as good as possible. Except for a
> >>>>recently
> >>>>running air driven sponge filter I don't have any transferable media
> >>>>that I
> >>>>could use from my particular setup so I was thinking of cycling her
> >>>>tank the
> >>>>old fashioned way by getting feeder fish or maybe giving her one of my
> >>>>fancy
> >>>>guppies (female first I think) for the first week then one more the
> >>>>next,
> >>>>etc. until 4-5 weeks have passed and then start adding much more. I am
> >>>>definitely going to do what I can to keep her from putting goldfish in
> >>>>this
> >>>>tank because only one or two goldfish would be proper for such a small
> >>>>tank
> >>>>otherwise the fish would suffer if there were more than 2, and only 2
> >>>>goldfish don't really sound enticing to most people. She might buy
> >>>>tetras,
> >>>>etc. at the pet store after cycling is over and I could use
> >>>>suggestions for
> >>>>an 18 gallon tank. I am not so sure fancy guppies make good feeder
> >>>>fish as
> >>>>they are fragile and I worry about fish suffering in the case we try
> >>>>cycling
> >>>>with them. I am thinking Jeanette and I could make a trip to the
> >>>>closest
> >>>>good lfs occasionally to pick up different fish and set up a good
> >>>>community
> >>>>tank for her. I am planning on giving her my original penguin bio
> >>>>wheel
> >>>>power filter and other things I don't need but she might, before we
> >>>>actually
> >>>>fill the tank so the cycle should finish well. I would prefer to do a
> >>>>fishless cycle except for the fact that I don't want to overwhelm her
> >>>>or
> >>>>otherwise scare her from the hobby as a fishless cycle might be too
> >>>>much for
> >>>>her what with the measuring ammonia and doing all of the testing plus
> >>>>she
> >>>>might elect not to purchase any test kits. So at the moment the
> >>>>priority is
> >>>>to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the cycle. In
> >>>>recent
> >>>>light of a previous post we will want to add fish at no more than 3 or
> >>>>4 at
> >>>>a time so that would mean only 2 or 3 trips to the pet store when
> >>>>stocking
> >>>>up after the cycle because 18 gallon tanks are not that big. Jeanette
> >>>>loves
> >>>>landscaping and is really good with plants and I am sure that she
> >>>>wants real
> >>>>aquatic plants for the tank too even after she commented that she
> >>>>thinks
> >>>>aquatic plants are expensive (I am not worried because I could
> >>>>probably give
> >>>>her some of my hornwort or java fern and she will want low light
> >>>>plants
> >>>>unless she does something different like have the tank in direct
> >>>>sunlight
> >>>>for part of the day, I haven't pinpointed the reason yet but except
> >>>>for some
> >>>>green spot algae during the first year of my bedroom tank and some
> >>>>algae
> >>>>covering the wet side of the glass tops of 2 of my tanks right under
> >>>>the
> >>>>light I have never had an algae problem, our city water is very soft
> >>>>and for
> >>>>some reason algae and some aquatic plants never really grows in it
> >>>>possibly
> >>>>because there isn't enough light but even then I have some plants
> >>>>growing
> >>>>great and algae supposedly doesn't require much to thrive) and I am
> >>>>hoping
> >>>>she can apply her knowledge of emerged (terrestrial) aquatic plants
> >>>>and she
> >>>>could really end up very happy with her new hobby (fish keeping with
> >>>>plants). Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists
> >>>>of
> >>>>plants/ etc. would be welcome. One thing to keep in mind is that I
> >>>>will be
> >>>>doing some google searches for lists of community fish in an 18 gallon
> >>>>tank
> >>>>and maybe fish too on google groups mostly and my books and possibly
> >>>>the
> >>>>whole web. Thanks and I hope to read you later!
> >>>
> >>>Breathe Daniel, damn that was hard to read! :)
> >>
> >>LOL
> >>
> >><selective snip>
> >>friend... bought an 18 gallon tank...
> >>priority is to do a cycle with feeder fish then add more fish after the
> >>cycle...
> >>wants real aquatic plants...
> >>Any recommendations/suggestions/comments/lists of fish/ lists of plants/
> >>etc. would be welcome
> >><snipped complete> ;~)
> >>
> >>
> >>>Why don't you run the filter you are going to give her on your existing
> >>>tank for a few days? Then put it on her tank.
> >>
> >>There are many 'looks' you can get in an 18g tank. Maybe a pride of
> >>Tiger barbs (start with just 2 to cycle) as these will just pick at the
> >>live plants. You should take your friend to where there is a good
> >>variety to see what kind of 'look' she is interested in, and they we can
> >>talk about tank-mates and cycling fish. The plan would not be to select
> >>a 'cycling' fish, but to avoid sensitive fish and plan the set-up to
> >>minimize the stress caused by cycling :o).
> >>--
> >>www.NetMax.tk
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Thanks netmax, sorry about the LONG post I made, it's one of my quirks
to
> > ramble on and experiment with proper communication (I do spell correctly
> > almost all of the time and my punctuation is usually right on except for
the
> > use of commas so I guess that proper word to describe my language use
quirk
> > is grammar deficiency). Thanks everyone for reading this far....Later!
> >
> >
> Heh. Long is fine. A blank line between paragraphs does wonders for
> the eyes, though.
>
> As for the tank, put the plants in as soon as you add fish! Examine
> purchased plants VERY closely for snails and snail eggs, but don't
> disinfect.

Thanks for the tips Elaine! Interesting that disinfecting the plants would
destroy the good bacteria on the leafs, thanks - I did not know that. I am
thinking she will buy eco complete for a substrate, lighting will be poor at
the start but we will get low light plants first and try to get a number of
groups of plants for it as well. Thanks again - later!

Plants carry nitrifying bacteria on their leaves, absorb
> ammonia, and can level out ammonia and nitrite so well that you barely
> see a spike during the cycle. I cycled a five gallon tank with three
> cardinals, a big java fern, two crypts, and three anubias. I never saw
> any ammonia and only a touch of nitrite. The cardinals were perfectly
> fine during the "cycle."
>
> You also may want to set her tank up with Flourite or Eco Complete
> substrate so that if she upgrades the lighting, she can grow plants more
> easily. If she really wants to go the planted route, she'll need at
> least 60W of compact fluorescent ligting and to plan on using Flourish
> Excel or C02.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Derek W. Benson]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:00:11 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the details Derek. It is my-bad about my post not properly
>communicating my thoughts, I was not going to put the filter on her tank and
>wait 2 weeks then add fish. I already understood that I need to put the
>filter in action on her tank immediately before fish are added, to prevent
>the good bacteria from dying off from starvation from not being about to eat
>ammonia because there is none in that scenario. Thanks so much for the fish
>recommendations too. You did teach me a few things as well that I
>appreciate. Don't worry - I won't let the filter just sit there, I mean't by
>2 weeks that I would have the filter running in my tank for 2 weeks before
>transferring it to her tank, to make sure it is populated first and we would
>get the fish put in right after introducing the filter first. I did learn
>from you that the tank wouldn't be cycled just because I put in a populated
>media filter but from my other experience/estimation it does help the tank
>tremendously and I think I will do as you recommend and we will get 5 or 6
>small fish (one of the kind you recommend, so far probably danios) when we
>first introduce the filter, then add a few more fish a couple of weeks after
>that. She will be doing decent water changes and all other maintenance all
>of us as a group here call mandatory. Thanks, later!
>
Oh. Ooops. Rereading your previous post I see it now, about the 2
weeks in your tank first, then into her tank. There's nothing wrong
with the way it's written, completely understandable.

:-) Derek

[Elaine T]

Daniel Morrow wrote:

> Thanks for the tips Elaine! Interesting that disinfecting the plants would
> destroy the good bacteria on the leafs, thanks - I did not know that. I am
> thinking she will buy eco complete for a substrate, lighting will be poor at
> the start but we will get low light plants first and try to get a number of
> groups of plants for it as well. Thanks again - later!

Once your tank is established, be certain to disinfect plants. This is
a one-time trick to start a tank. It can introduce diseases later on.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Daniel Morrow]

Hi all! Just finished helping jeanette get setup for her new fish which she
will buy in a few days to a week! The filter will be added (my doner filter)
at the same time as the fish. She wants to start with 2 fish so that is a
good sign also she is thinking the fish will be cherry barbs, not totally
sure yet though. Jeanette's tank is an 18 gallon and it was formerly a
reptile tank. She cleaned it really good with vinegar and rinsed it well.
Given the previous talk about reptile tanks possibly being not robust enough
to hold water (hers seemed to have a 10 gallon tank's glass thickness)
should we be concerned about it collapsing or leaking or should it be o.k.
(the tank)? Thanks all!

[Gill Passman]

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> Hi all! Just finished helping jeanette get setup for her new fish which she
> will buy in a few days to a week! The filter will be added (my doner filter)
> at the same time as the fish. She wants to start with 2 fish so that is a
> good sign also she is thinking the fish will be cherry barbs, not totally
> sure yet though. Jeanette's tank is an 18 gallon and it was formerly a
> reptile tank. She cleaned it really good with vinegar and rinsed it well.
> Given the previous talk about reptile tanks possibly being not robust enough
> to hold water (hers seemed to have a 10 gallon tank's glass thickness)
> should we be concerned about it collapsing or leaking or should it be o.k.
> (the tank)? Thanks all!
>
>
I would try filling it with water (preferably outside) and check for
leaks before putting it into position - just to be on the safe side

Gill

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.


"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
> > Hi all! Just finished helping jeanette get setup for her new fish which
she
> > will buy in a few days to a week! The filter will be added (my doner
filter)
> > at the same time as the fish. She wants to start with 2 fish so that is
a
> > good sign also she is thinking the fish will be cherry barbs, not
totally
> > sure yet though. Jeanette's tank is an 18 gallon and it was formerly a
> > reptile tank. She cleaned it really good with vinegar and rinsed it
well.
> > Given the previous talk about reptile tanks possibly being not robust
enough
> > to hold water (hers seemed to have a 10 gallon tank's glass thickness)
> > should we be concerned about it collapsing or leaking or should it be
o.k.
> > (the tank)? Thanks all!
> >
> >
> I would try filling it with water (preferably outside) and check for
> leaks before putting it into position - just to be on the safe side
>
> Gill

Thanks for the idea gill, later!

[NetMax]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all! Just finished helping jeanette get setup for her new fish which
> she
> will buy in a few days to a week! The filter will be added (my doner
> filter)
> at the same time as the fish. She wants to start with 2 fish so that is
> a
> good sign also she is thinking the fish will be cherry barbs, not
> totally
> sure yet though. Jeanette's tank is an 18 gallon and it was formerly a
> reptile tank. She cleaned it really good with vinegar and rinsed it
> well.
> Given the previous talk about reptile tanks possibly being not robust
> enough
> to hold water (hers seemed to have a 10 gallon tank's glass thickness)
> should we be concerned about it collapsing or leaking or should it be
> o.k.
> (the tank)? Thanks all!


This page should give you some idea if it's water-worthy.
http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/glass-thickness.html

The big difference between reptile & fish tanks probably starts around
the 55-60g tanks. I think that smaller tanks are all generic, good for
both.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.


"NetMax" > wrote in message
...

>
> This page should give you some idea if it's water-worthy.
> http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/glass-thickness.html
>
> The big difference between reptile & fish tanks probably starts around
> the 55-60g tanks. I think that smaller tanks are all generic, good for
> both.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>


Thanks for the useful link! Also - we went ahead and filled it and I am
assuming since I haven't heard from her since it is working perfectly.
Also - I think I would have noticed bowing if the glass wasn't thick enough,
I wasn't proactively looking for bowing while I was at her place though.
Thanks!