New Orleans....

[Gareee©]

Some parts under 25 feet of water!

THAT'S what I call a POND!

(But I'll probabably have worst green water issues then they will.)

--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
Gareee's Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/ellison/86/mainframe.htm

[Reel Mckoi]

"Gareee©" > wrote in message
...
> Some parts under 25 feet of water!
>
> THAT'S what I call a POND!
>
> (But I'll probabably have worst green water issues then they will.)
========================
We've been watching this nightmare on CNN since yesterday. What a shame!
This is the worst hurricane I can remember since Hurricane Andrew. This
storm Katrina covers a larger area.... this is truly a disaster.

It reached us last night with rain and high winds. The rain stopped but the
winds are still strong and the sky is dark.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Derek Broughton]

Reel Mckoi wrote:

> "Gareee©" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Some parts under 25 feet of water!
>>
>> THAT'S what I call a POND!
>>
>> (But I'll probabably have worst green water issues then they will.)
> ========================
> We've been watching this nightmare on CNN since yesterday. What a shame!
> This is the worst hurricane I can remember since Hurricane Andrew. This
> storm Katrina covers a larger area.... this is truly a disaster.

As far as property damage is concerned, it's probably the worst hurricane in
the US, ever. They're already expecting insurance payouts to beat Andrew
(and that's with insurance companies generally refusing to cover
flooding...)
--
derek

[Reel Mckoi]

"Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
...
> Reel Mckoi wrote:
>
>> "Gareee©" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Some parts under 25 feet of water!
>>>
>>> THAT'S what I call a POND!
>>>
>>> (But I'll probabably have worst green water issues then they will.)
>> ========================
>> We've been watching this nightmare on CNN since yesterday. What a shame!
>> This is the worst hurricane I can remember since Hurricane Andrew. This
>> storm Katrina covers a larger area.... this is truly a disaster.
>
> As far as property damage is concerned, it's probably the worst hurricane
> in
> the US, ever. They're already expecting insurance payouts to beat Andrew
> (and that's with insurance companies generally refusing to cover
> flooding...)
> --
> derek
=========================
If the insurance companies do not pay out there is going to be thousands
unpon thousands of people left homeless. Wind damage here in TN is
occurring now. We just had a sassafras tree blown down in our driveway....
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gareee©]

They've been talking on CNN about the city not even being inhabitable for a
month or so, and gas prices skyrocketing to $4 a gallon because of damage to
off shore oil refining rigs.

It does sound though like many things that contributed to the disaster were
man made changes to the area.. straightening the Mississippi and loosing the
solt that used to be deposited there, and mismanagement of the swamplands
that had protected them in the past, to reclaim land for purchase and
developement.

It sounds like a combo of a bad weather situation, and a lot of really
stupid people.

Why people decided to try to "ride it out" is beyond me. I used to live in
Florida, and got the hell out before Andrew hit.


--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
Gareee's Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/ellison/86/mainframe.htm

[Reel Mckoi]

"Gareee©" > wrote in message
...
> They've been talking on CNN about the city not even being inhabitable for
> a month or so, and gas prices skyrocketing to $4 a gallon because of
> damage to off shore oil refining rigs.
>
> It does sound though like many things that contributed to the disaster
> were man made changes to the area.. straightening the Mississippi and
> loosing the solt that used to be deposited there, and mismanagement of the
> swamplands that had protected them in the past, to reclaim land for
> purchase and developement.

$$ I don't understand why they even allow people to live in those flood
prone areas. They do it here as well. When there are unusually heavy rains
the people in low-lying areas are flooded out - over and over again. This
flood prone land should be used as wildlife refuges, parks and whatnot that
doesn't require regular buildings apt to be destroyed.

> It sounds like a combo of a bad weather situation, and a lot of really
> stupid people.

$$ Or just thoughtless people.

> Why people decided to try to "ride it out" is beyond me. I used to live in
> Florida, and got the hell out before Andrew hit.

$$ I saw on the News that some couldn't get out. They had no choice. I
suppose their neighbors just took off and left them to fend for themselves.
How sad.......
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gareee©]

"Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
...

> $$ I saw on the News that some couldn't get out. They had no choice. I
> suppose their neighbors just took off and left them to fend for
> themselves. How sad.......

I have a hard time believing that. it's not like hurricanes sneak up on you
in 2 minutes.. you know a day at least in advance and they issues an
evacuation there long before the hurricane hit.

I lived in Orlando for 13 years, and many people just do NOT believe
anything bad can happen to them, no matter what they are told.

Heck, I remember a police car stopping by everyone's trailer in a trailer
park, and telling them they had a mandatory evacuation of the area, and they
told the police fine, and as soon as they left, said there was no way in
hell they were leaving.

IMHO it's Darwinism at it's best. The smart survive, and the stupid perish.

Just like the people who ran *gas generators* in their homes, and had
fires.. how stupid do you have to be to run a gasoline generator IN YOUR
HOUSE??

My pond fish are smarter then that!

--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
Gareee's Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/ellison/86/mainframe.htm

[Gill Passman]

"Gareee©" > wrote in message
...
> They've been talking on CNN about the city not even being inhabitable for
a
> month or so, and gas prices skyrocketing to $4 a gallon because of damage
to
> off shore oil refining rigs.
>
> It does sound though like many things that contributed to the disaster
were
> man made changes to the area.. straightening the Mississippi and loosing
the
> solt that used to be deposited there, and mismanagement of the swamplands
> that had protected them in the past, to reclaim land for purchase and
> developement.
>
> It sounds like a combo of a bad weather situation, and a lot of really
> stupid people.
>
> Why people decided to try to "ride it out" is beyond me. I used to live in
> Florida, and got the hell out before Andrew hit.
>
>
> --
> Gareee©
> (Gary Tabar Jr.)
> Gareee's Homepage:
> http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/ellison/86/mainframe.htm
>
>
I've visited a few places in the States - San Diego, LA, Manhatten and Long
Island.....my memories of Manhatten are filled with sadness due to my
discovery of my vertigo going up the Twin Towers but it is a memory that I
will cherish forever...and added to my shock on 9/11....a day I will never
forget.

I visited New Orleans in 2000 for a big work trip....I remember the vibrance
of the city, the culture, Cat's Miaow :-) and the wonderful time I spent
with my colleagues in the various bars up and down Bourbon Street....we
stayed on Cruise Ships on the Mississipi.....we have been planning to return
as a family to this wonderful city - we put off this year (would have been 4
weeks ago) due to the age of my youngest (4)...we wanted to go when all of
the family could appreciate this wonderful city.....I've been watching the
news and what I see is so devastating....my heart goes out to the people
here who have had their lives ruined in such a way that no insurance
compensation will even get close to matching....oil prices might rise but
what is that in comparison to the number of lives lost or ruined.....

I hope, beyond all reasonable hope, that things will not get much worse in
terms of the news coming out of this area and that things will get sorted
soon so that people can return to what remains of their homes, even if it is
just to salvage whatever is left....my heart goes out to everyone in this
region.....and hope that those that you care about have not been too badly
affected....

Gill

[Gareee©]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4314dfb5$0$38045

> I hope, beyond all reasonable hope, that things will not get much worse in
> terms of the news coming out of this area and that things will get sorted
> soon so that people can return to what remains of their homes, even if it
> is
> just to salvage whatever is left....my heart goes out to everyone in this
> region.....and hope that those that you care about have not been too badly
> affected....

I agree, Gill. I never visited New Orleans, but we'd talked about it here a
few times.

I *really* wish I had now.


--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
Gareee's Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/ellison/86/mainframe.htm

[Derek Broughton]

Gareee© wrote:

> "Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> $$ I saw on the News that some couldn't get out. They had no choice. I
>> suppose their neighbors just took off and left them to fend for
>> themselves. How sad.......
>
> I have a hard time believing that. it's not like hurricanes sneak up on
> you in 2 minutes.. you know a day at least in advance and they issues an
> evacuation there long before the hurricane hit.

If you live in the city, you don't own a car, and you can't afford a plane
ticket - I imagine it's not easy to evacuate.

> I lived in Orlando for 13 years, and many people just do NOT believe
> anything bad can happen to them, no matter what they are told.

Which also happens, but those 7000 people who stayed in the SuperDome were
mostly there long before the hurricane hit. Those were the people who had
nowhere else to go, but were willing to evacuate - there were probably at
least as many people hiding out in their homes.
>
> Heck, I remember a police car stopping by everyone's trailer in a trailer
> park, and telling them they had a mandatory evacuation of the area, and
> they told the police fine, and as soon as they left, said there was no way
> in hell they were leaving.

Yeah, well, sometimes that's because they really _do_ know better than the
police. I was evacuated during Juan, two years ago. I was at
_significantly_ greater risk leaving when they decided I needed to, and it
turned out the evacuation order _didn't_ apply to my area, anyway. Next
time a cop comes to my door and orders me to leave, I'll be sure to know
the _real_ details of the evacuation order, first.
>
> IMHO it's Darwinism at it's best. The smart survive, and the stupid
> perish.
>
> Just like the people who ran *gas generators* in their homes, and had
> fires.. how stupid do you have to be to run a gasoline generator IN YOUR
> HOUSE??

That's rarely a problem. People who run generators in their homes usually
die peacefully of CO poisoning before there's a chance of a fire...
--
derek

[Nedra]

My heart is broken. New Orleans is my first love. St. Bernard Parish is
where I worked for 6 wonderful years with the Army National Guard. I
knew I was in for a long night when I heard that New Orleans itself was
not touched. We all know different now. I know the city will rebuild
but what of all the lives?

Nedra in Missouri

[Reel Mckoi]

"Gareee©" > wrote in message
...
> "Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> $$ I saw on the News that some couldn't get out. They had no choice. I
>> suppose their neighbors just took off and left them to fend for
>> themselves. How sad.......
>
> I have a hard time believing that. it's not like hurricanes sneak up on
> you in 2 minutes.. you know a day at least in advance and they issues an
> evacuation there long before the hurricane hit.

$$ But if you're poor and have no car how can you leave? Maybe they didn't
have family. Picture how crowded any bus depot would be!

> I lived in Orlando for 13 years, and many people just do NOT believe
> anything bad can happen to them, no matter what they are told.

$$ You will always find such foolish people. I agree.

> Heck, I remember a police car stopping by everyone's trailer in a trailer
> park, and telling them they had a mandatory evacuation of the area, and
> they told the police fine, and as soon as they left, said there was no way
> in hell they were leaving.

$$ Yes, I remember people would not leave Amagansett L.I. when a storm was
headed that way in 1954 or 55. Many lived to regret it. My family was
lucky, the water didn't come as far as our summer bungalow. Other people
ran for their lives as their homes were ripped off their foundations and
tumbled like doll houses in the surge. I thought for sure we were all going
to die.

> IMHO it's Darwinism at it's best. The smart survive, and the stupid
> perish.

$$ To some extent this is true but I don't believe the Police had enough
manpower to evacuate all those without cars, family, close friends or money
to pay someone to evacuate them. I myself would have been out of there if I
had to WALK! Now the looters are looting the stores.... and probably any
homes still standing.

> Just like the people who ran *gas generators* in their homes, and had
> fires.. how stupid do you have to be to run a gasoline generator IN YOUR
> HOUSE??
>
> My pond fish are smarter then that!

--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[George]

"Gareee©" > wrote in message
...
> "Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> $$ I saw on the News that some couldn't get out. They had no choice. I
>> suppose their neighbors just took off and left them to fend for
>> themselves. How sad.......
>
> I have a hard time believing that. it's not like hurricanes sneak up on
> you in 2 minutes.. you know a day at least in advance and they issues an
> evacuation there long before the hurricane hit.

20% of the people live below the poverty line. An equal number don't own
their own means of transportation, and the buses don't run out of town.
There are also a lot of elderly people living in New Orleans. Many of them
were infirmed.

[Gareee©]

" George" > wrote in message
news:GH6Re.294033$_o.224146@attbi_s71...

> 20% of the people live below the poverty line. An equal number don't own
> their own means of transportation, and the buses don't run out of town.
> There are also a lot of elderly people living in New Orleans. Many of
> them were infirmed.

True, but I'm not talking about people without the ability or means to
leave.. I'm talking about the idiots who stay because they *know* nothing
bad will happen.

I am a flood victim from Andrew myself from davenport Florida, and fought
flood waters for 4 months with sandbags, along with my neighbors.

I couldn't tell you how many times that I came home to a foot of water in my
living room. I remember not being able to open my car door, because water
would have flooded into it.

That was after the fact, doing damage control. At the end, Fema declared my
home unlivable and I got a nice check to get me another place, but it took
4 months of hell before they finally resolved that for me.


--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
Gareee's Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/ellison/86/mainframe.htm

[kathy]

For three years my parents lived in Baton Rouge
and we took the opportunity to visit New Orleans
several times during our visits to them.

It is a city where you feel you are right in step
with history (something you don't feel too often
in the rather new pacific northwest). I loved
that aspect of it.

Bourbon Street, however, kind of scared me.
One night my mom and I were walking around
the French Quarter at night and all of a sudden
we were in an area that we felt really out of place.
Voodoo shops and red lights in the windows!
We skeedaddled back to the tourist section real
quick!!

Also love the Cafe du Monde, down on Jackson
Square. My brother got some great black and
white pictures of the area that are still in my
familyroom.

And the food!! Wow! First time I ever tried oysters
and saw Tabasco Sauce in HUGE bottles.

I hope they can recover and maybe be able to plan
to survive if another hurricane ever hits. There will
probably be some things they will change, though with
mother nature, that isn't always possible.

kathy :-) www.blogfromthebog.com
this week's entry - blackfly
Pond 101 page for new pond keepers ~
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[Snooze]

"Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
...
>
> $$ To some extent this is true but I don't believe the Police had enough
> manpower to evacuate all those without cars, family, close friends or
> money to pay someone to evacuate them. I myself would have been out of
> there if I had to WALK! Now the looters are looting the stores.... and
> probably any homes still standing.
>

Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to assist
their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.

-S

[Herb]

> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>
> -S

You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state has
publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen available
to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill orders for
the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or Police.
Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it wouldn't
last long.

Regards,
Herb

[George]

"Gareee©" > wrote in message
...
>" George" > wrote in message
>news:GH6Re.294033$_o.224146@attbi_s71...
>
>> 20% of the people live below the poverty line. An equal number don't
>> own their own means of transportation, and the buses don't run out of
>> town. There are also a lot of elderly people living in New Orleans.
>> Many of them were infirmed.
>
> True, but I'm not talking about people without the ability or means to
> leave.. I'm talking about the idiots who stay because they *know* nothing
> bad will happen.

Likely, those were a minority of the people who did stay behind. Others
likely stayed (other than for the reasons already stated) because they
didn't want to leave their property unprotected in the aftermath. as we
have seen from the images of the looting, that may have been a good reason
in a lot of peoples minds to stay.

> I am a flood victim from Andrew myself from davenport Florida, and fought
> flood waters for 4 months with sandbags, along with my neighbors.
>
> I couldn't tell you how many times that I came home to a foot of water in
> my living room. I remember not being able to open my car door, because
> water would have flooded into it.
>
> That was after the fact, doing damage control. At the end, Fema declared
> my home unlivable and I got a nice check to get me another place, but it
> took 4 months of hell before they finally resolved that for me.
>

I suspect that it is going to take considerably longer than 4 months for
this disaster to be resolved.

[George]

"Herb" > wrote in message
news:6%cRe.27090$Uz2.22252@trnddc02...
>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>>
>> -S
>
> You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state has
> publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen available
> to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
> conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill orders for
> the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or Police.
> Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it wouldn't
> last long.
>
> Regards,
> Herb

That is not a solution. What they need to do is evacuate everyone that is
not an emergency worker out of the disaster area. I think that is what
they are currently working to do.

[Reel Mckoi]

"Snooze" > wrote in message
m...
> "Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> $$ To some extent this is true but I don't believe the Police had enough
>> manpower to evacuate all those without cars, family, close friends or
>> money to pay someone to evacuate them. I myself would have been out of
>> there if I had to WALK! Now the looters are looting the stores.... and
>> probably any homes still standing.
>>
>
> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>
> -S
============================
From what I saw on TV there is no way the National Guard can cover every
street and back-street in these areas that are flooded and the people
evacuated. What I saw on TV were looters in a frenzy. They were like
animals running back and forth emptying the stores.... shocking!
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel Mckoi]

"Herb" > wrote in message
news:6%cRe.27090$Uz2.22252@trnddc02...
>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>>
>> -S
>
> You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state has
> publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen available
> to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
> conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill orders for
> the looters,

$$ I agree with this - UNLESS they were children or starving people taking
food. No one is starving there. These looters were carrying off clothes,
beer and electronic equipment. Items hardly needed for survival. It's
amazing how a disaster can bring out the worst in some people and the best
in others.

that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or Police.
> Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it wouldn't
> last long.
>
> Regards,
> Herb

--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel Mckoi]

" George" > wrote in message
news:aJdRe.295173$_o.22597@attbi_s71...
>
> "Herb" > wrote in message
> news:6%cRe.27090$Uz2.22252@trnddc02...
>>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
>>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>>>
>>> -S
>>
>> You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state has
>> publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen available
>> to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
>> conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill orders for
>> the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or Police.
>> Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it wouldn't
>> last long.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Herb
>
> That is not a solution. What they need to do is evacuate everyone that is
> not an emergency worker out of the disaster area. I think that is what
> they are currently working to do.
=================================
That wouldn't be possible as how would they find them all to evacuate them?
Many don't want to leave. Where would they take them? The TV claims the
shelters are already overcrowded. Sometimes drastic actions are the only
thing people understand.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gareee©]

" George" > wrote in message
news:aJdRe.295173$_o.22597@attbi_s71...

> What they need to do is evacuate everyone that is not an emergency worker
> out of the disaster area. I think that is what they are currently working
> to do.

Yep, I heard the same thing.. they are going to tell people with proper
identification they can come in and get personal effects, but then must
leave the area until about a month now.

But they are working now on getting everyone out, so they can stop the
waters raising, and get the situation under some sort of control.

--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
Gareee's Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/ellison/86/mainframe.htm

[Roy]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:29:06 GMT, "Herb"
> wrote:

>===<>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
>===<>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.

A ot of the affercted states national guard troops are deployed and on
TDY to opther areas of assignment since Iraqi Invasion....a lot are
transferred to regular active duty military bases to replace the
regulars stationed there so they can deploy and a majority of those at
home station are not qualified to provide much of any kind of
assistence in regards to security, rescue etc..handing out MRE's
perhaps but thats it........And then a good portion of the ones still
at home station are just as badly affected and victims of Katrina as
the next, and are and may have evacuated, so the nationa guard
strength is not what its chalked up to be by any means. The NG members
in this area are spread out thin all over the world right now, and
many of them are in Iraq etc while their home was in Mobile
country,....The guard and reserves are tasked more since 9/11 than
most people think, and thats being TDY to another country already.


>===<>
>===<>You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state has
>===<>publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen available
>===<>to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
>===<>conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill orders for
>===<>the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or Police.
>===<>Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it wouldn't
>===<>last long.
>===<>
Does not seem ike it stopped the animals in NO does it.The only thing
those animals will under stand is when they start pileing up looters
bodies in the public square.......There wa many many more that could
easily have evacuated NO..........just like the idiots that rode it
out in a beach front motel in Biloxi who finshed their days of
contributing to their gene pool........There really is no excuse for
those idiots being trapped and needing air rescue in NO.......They
could eaily have been put up at the SUper Dome, inconvieinient
perhaps, but safe, and all together in stead of trapped in an attic or
on a roof crying to be rescued.....They had close to 48 hours, to get
to the super dome or high ground and other shelters in NO, but noo
they elected to stay and hopefully take up on the looting career, most
are well versed in.....I say feed em lead and make a lasting image of
the low lifes. Unitl they take extremely firm action with those
animals they will always do what they can to be a parasite on the
governments handout programs.........

>===<>Regards,
>===<>Herb


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Snooze]

"Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
...
> "Snooze" > wrote in message
> m...
>>
>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>>
> ============================
> From what I saw on TV there is no way the National Guard can cover every
> street and back-street in these areas that are flooded and the people
> evacuated. What I saw on TV were looters in a frenzy. They were like
> animals running back and forth emptying the stores.... shocking!

I was in high school when the rodney king riots occurred. I remember my
history teacher got called to duty, when he was in the national guard
reserve. When he returned, he said that they would park an Bradley in the
intersection, with a few guardsmen, it would keep the looters a block or two
away.

Obviously this kind of disaster would probably require a significant portion
of the guardsmen in neighboring states to help guard all the commercial
areas, so the local police could patrol the residential areas.

-S

[Snooze]

"Herb" > wrote in message
news:6%cRe.27090$Uz2.22252@trnddc02...
>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>>
>> -S
>
> You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state has
> publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen available
> to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
> conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill orders for
> the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or Police.
> Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it wouldn't
> last long.


The Koreans did exactly that, permission or not, in the Rodney King riots,
seems word got out really quickly.

-S

[Roy]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:10:00 GMT, "Snooze" > wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"Herb" > wrote in message
>===<>news:6%cRe.27090$Uz2.22252@trnddc02...
>===<>>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
>===<>>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>===<>>>
>===<>>> -S
>===<>>
>===<>> You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state has
>===<>> publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen available
>===<>> to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
>===<>> conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill orders for
>===<>> the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or Police.
>===<>> Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it wouldn't
>===<>> last long.
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>The Koreans did exactly that, permission or not, in the Rodney King riots,
>===<>seems word got out really quickly.
>===<>
>===<>-S
>===<>
Word does not have to get out, its instinct and hard wired in these
people, did I say people, I meant to say animals.........They are
always looking for an opening to take advantage of ANY situation.The
FOX coverage of them walking around nonchalantly right after Katrina
passed through, The French Quarter pretty well dry and intact, and
isolated from the rest of NO, they new darn well they could pretty
well do what they wanted and get away with it......so they went for
it.......Even with officers there with shotguns pointed at them did
little to deter them, as they knew they were not gonna get shot, and
they more than likely were not gonna get arrested and hauled in tot
jail since they could not transport those arrested and try and stem
further looting while they were gone.......They shjould shoot em all
on sight if they have so much as a gal of milk or a lopad of bread,
since there is not once busiiness open in that city and selling food
and other merchandise......see a brand new pair of NIKEs on them odds
they ripped em off at the Footlooker that they so diligenlty tore
apart and plundered.......scumballs are what they are and they have no
place in socieity.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel Mckoi]

"Snooze" > wrote in message
...
> "Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Snooze" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>>
>>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
>>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>>>
>> ============================
>> From what I saw on TV there is no way the National Guard can cover every
>> street and back-street in these areas that are flooded and the people
>> evacuated. What I saw on TV were looters in a frenzy. They were like
>> animals running back and forth emptying the stores.... shocking!
>
> I was in high school when the rodney king riots occurred. I remember my
> history teacher got called to duty, when he was in the national guard
> reserve. When he returned, he said that they would park an Bradley in the
> intersection, with a few guardsmen, it would keep the looters a block or
> two away.
>
> Obviously this kind of disaster would probably require a significant
> portion of the guardsmen in neighboring states to help guard all the
> commercial areas, so the local police could patrol the residential areas.
>
> -S
===================
I remember the Rodney King insanity! I couldn't believe how the people
reacted. They destroyed their own neighborhood! How much crazier can
people get?

At this point you can be sure there isn't an item of value left in the
stores we saw being looted, in any of those devastated neighborhoods. Every
store (and home) is probably emptied out down to the last sneaker, 6-pack of
beer and pair of jeans......
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:10:00 GMT, "Snooze" > wrote:
>
> >===<>
> >===<>"Herb" > wrote in message
> >===<>news:6%cRe.27090$Uz2.22252@trnddc02...
> >===<>>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment
to
> >===<>>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
> >===<>>>
> >===<>>> -S
> >===<>>
> >===<>> You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state
has
> >===<>> publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen
available
> >===<>> to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
> >===<>> conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill
orders for
> >===<>> the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or
Police.
> >===<>> Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it
wouldn't
> >===<>> last long.
> >===<>
> >===<>
> >===<>The Koreans did exactly that, permission or not, in the Rodney King
riots,
> >===<>seems word got out really quickly.
> >===<>
> >===<>-S
> >===<>
> Word does not have to get out, its instinct and hard wired in these
> people, did I say people, I meant to say animals.........They are
> always looking for an opening to take advantage of ANY situation.The
> FOX coverage of them walking around nonchalantly right after Katrina
> passed through, The French Quarter pretty well dry and intact, and
> isolated from the rest of NO, they new darn well they could pretty
> well do what they wanted and get away with it......so they went for
> it.......Even with officers there with shotguns pointed at them did
> little to deter them, as they knew they were not gonna get shot, and
> they more than likely were not gonna get arrested and hauled in tot
> jail since they could not transport those arrested and try and stem
> further looting while they were gone.......They shjould shoot em all
> on sight if they have so much as a gal of milk or a lopad of bread,
> since there is not once busiiness open in that city and selling food
> and other merchandise......see a brand new pair of NIKEs on them odds
> they ripped em off at the Footlooker that they so diligenlty tore
> apart and plundered.......scumballs are what they are and they have no
> place in socieity.
>
> ==============================================
> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
> "The original frugal ponder"
> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

I think that under the circumstances there is a big difference between those
trying to get food and drinking water and those that are looting for the
sake of it for material gain - afterall any electronic goods will be shot
with the flood water, clothing might also fall under the essentials
category. Under the same circumstances, as a law abiding citizen (UK) I
think that I would do everything in my power to provide my family with food
and clean drinking water. What disturbs me is that there does not appear to
be any coordinated effort to "legally" loot these shops and get the food and
drinking water to those that so obviously need it - leaving it to waste and
rot and become submerged is equally as criminal...surely part of the
recovery focus should be on salvaging as much as possible for use by those
in dire need left in this city....but I guess it is a manpower issue.

I am very concerned with the news that I see coming out of this city and the
surrounding areas. I am worried about the sheer scale of evacuation with
limited resources that is going to need to take place to get those lucky
enough to survive out of there. I am worried that those that sought
sanctuary in the Superdome might not find it their ultimate prison....I hope
very much that this won't be the case....I'm worried about the lack of
reports of aid going into the area.....

I think that because of the nature of the reputation of the States as a
super power you are not getting the help that you need from the rest of the
world...when you look at the response to the Tsunami tragedy on boxing day -
draw your own comparisons - potentially this is a disaster on the same (if
not greater) scale.

I've never had to face the dilemma of leaving my home to an uncertain
fate...I cannot comment on how I would cope with it or whether indeed I
could do it....on balance I believe that life is more important than
property...but for the elderly, infirm and poverty stricken this is no more
an option in our society than for those in third world countries....some may
have stayed because they didn't truly believe that it would happen but
others will have remained because they had no choice.

All this being said, I am very glad that you got out. I don't know the exact
region where you live but I am guessing it was affected....

I wonder if New Orleans will ever recover from this....but the focus should
not just be on this city but on other communities that will never, ever be
the same.

Gill

[Roy]

My poiint is those people had amaple time to get provisions that are
necessary to sustain life for just a few days, a case of bottled water
sdome cans of beans etc would do just fine.........but they elected to
buyt smokes and booze......and kick back and wait for the $hit to hit
the fan and then do their own ittle looting. These peope were all
within walking distance of the Superdome and a meal and shelter and
water and medical care..yet they elected to take their chances by
staying in their housinging areas, and taske advantage of a
situation........they always do........with them its like a feeding
frenzy of sharks,,,,,,,,and all they are and all they will ever be is
a leqch or cancer on society........I am in agreement with what a few
officals have already stated, shoot em tag em and mark them as a
looter and move on.........No, here we are spending all kinds of
resources rescueing the dredges of life that should not have had to be
rescued..........in the first place, but took their chances so they
can get a new pair of sneakers or a color TV. You can go without food
and water for as long as they have without having to have the animal
come out, its just not human, be it you, me or anyone else at this
early stage of the game to have to get so darn radical and do whjat
they are doing...........I seriously doubt that many can comprehend
the magnitude of a logisitical operation this is.........I have been
involved in some extremely large logistical moves, and this one is
the mother of all moves........but it can;'t be done at the wave of a
magic wand. All roads and bridges into the area has to be checked for
safe passage of transport..........helicopters can only carry so much,
and as long as your breathing and alive, maybe a bit hungry, you'll be
ok, it just takes time. I personally see lots that could have been
done, lots that they shoulkd be doing now, especially concerning
kicking fellow americans when they are down as those looters are
doing, but overall I think they are doing a great job of getting this
situation under control. To risk a million dollar aircraft, lives of
the air crew to rescue someone that should not have had to be rescued
just because said person wanted to have a chance perhaps at ripping of
a pair of sneakers is pityfull........I would let the jokers rot on
the interstate ramp and hope another storm or heat wave came
in.......and the waters got higher.

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:13:44 +0100, "Gill Passman"
<gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>===<>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:10:00 GMT, "Snooze" > wrote:
>===<>>
>===<>> >===<>
>===<>> >===<>"Herb" > wrote in message
>===<>> >===<>news:6%cRe.27090$Uz2.22252@trnddc02...
>===<>> >===<>>> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment
>===<>to
>===<>> >===<>>> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
>===<>> >===<>>>
>===<>> >===<>>> -S
>===<>> >===<>>
>===<>> >===<>> You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state
>===<>has
>===<>> >===<>> publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen
>===<>available
>===<>> >===<>> to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
>===<>> >===<>> conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill
>===<>orders for
>===<>> >===<>> the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or
>===<>Police.
>===<>> >===<>> Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it
>===<>wouldn't
>===<>> >===<>> last long.
>===<>> >===<>
>===<>> >===<>
>===<>> >===<>The Koreans did exactly that, permission or not, in the Rodney King
>===<>riots,
>===<>> >===<>seems word got out really quickly.
>===<>> >===<>
>===<>> >===<>-S
>===<>> >===<>
>===<>> Word does not have to get out, its instinct and hard wired in these
>===<>> people, did I say people, I meant to say animals.........They are
>===<>> always looking for an opening to take advantage of ANY situation.The
>===<>> FOX coverage of them walking around nonchalantly right after Katrina
>===<>> passed through, The French Quarter pretty well dry and intact, and
>===<>> isolated from the rest of NO, they new darn well they could pretty
>===<>> well do what they wanted and get away with it......so they went for
>===<>> it.......Even with officers there with shotguns pointed at them did
>===<>> little to deter them, as they knew they were not gonna get shot, and
>===<>> they more than likely were not gonna get arrested and hauled in tot
>===<>> jail since they could not transport those arrested and try and stem
>===<>> further looting while they were gone.......They shjould shoot em all
>===<>> on sight if they have so much as a gal of milk or a lopad of bread,
>===<>> since there is not once busiiness open in that city and selling food
>===<>> and other merchandise......see a brand new pair of NIKEs on them odds
>===<>> they ripped em off at the Footlooker that they so diligenlty tore
>===<>> apart and plundered.......scumballs are what they are and they have no
>===<>> place in socieity.
>===<>>
>===<>> ==============================================
>===<>> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
>===<>> "The original frugal ponder"
>===<>> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>
>===<>
>===<>I think that under the circumstances there is a big difference between those
>===<>trying to get food and drinking water and those that are looting for the
>===<>sake of it for material gain - afterall any electronic goods will be shot
>===<>with the flood water, clothing might also fall under the essentials
>===<>category. Under the same circumstances, as a law abiding citizen (UK) I
>===<>think that I would do everything in my power to provide my family with food
>===<>and clean drinking water. What disturbs me is that there does not appear to
>===<>be any coordinated effort to "legally" loot these shops and get the food and
>===<>drinking water to those that so obviously need it - leaving it to waste and
>===<>rot and become submerged is equally as criminal...surely part of the
>===<>recovery focus should be on salvaging as much as possible for use by those
>===<>in dire need left in this city....but I guess it is a manpower issue.
>===<>
>===<>I am very concerned with the news that I see coming out of this city and the
>===<>surrounding areas. I am worried about the sheer scale of evacuation with
>===<>limited resources that is going to need to take place to get those lucky
>===<>enough to survive out of there. I am worried that those that sought
>===<>sanctuary in the Superdome might not find it their ultimate prison....I hope
>===<>very much that this won't be the case....I'm worried about the lack of
>===<>reports of aid going into the area.....
>===<>
>===<>I think that because of the nature of the reputation of the States as a
>===<>super power you are not getting the help that you need from the rest of the
>===<>world...when you look at the response to the Tsunami tragedy on boxing day -
>===<>draw your own comparisons - potentially this is a disaster on the same (if
>===<>not greater) scale.
>===<>
>===<>I've never had to face the dilemma of leaving my home to an uncertain
>===<>fate...I cannot comment on how I would cope with it or whether indeed I
>===<>could do it....on balance I believe that life is more important than
>===<>property...but for the elderly, infirm and poverty stricken this is no more
>===<>an option in our society than for those in third world countries....some may
>===<>have stayed because they didn't truly believe that it would happen but
>===<>others will have remained because they had no choice.
>===<>
>===<>All this being said, I am very glad that you got out. I don't know the exact
>===<>region where you live but I am guessing it was affected....
>===<>
>===<>I wonder if New Orleans will ever recover from this....but the focus should
>===<>not just be on this city but on other communities that will never, ever be
>===<>the same.
>===<>
>===<>Gill
>===<>


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Snooze]

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>
> My poiint is those people had amaple time to get provisions that are
> necessary to sustain life for just a few days, a case of bottled water
> sdome cans of beans etc would do just fine.........but they elected to
> buyt smokes and booze......and kick back and wait for the $hit to hit
> the fan and then do their own ittle looting. These peope were ...[snip]

Just to be clear, which "those people" are we talking about.

-S

[Roy]

Any and all of the looters is those people, well not people but
looters......Its plain as day who I am referring to they are on TV
constantly being filmed........inside stores pileaging.....should be
pretty easy to save those tapes and start picking them up once things
simmer down a bit......

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 00:44:33 GMT, "Snooze" > wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>===<>>
>===<>> My poiint is those people had amaple time to get provisions that are
>===<>> necessary to sustain life for just a few days, a case of bottled water
>===<>> sdome cans of beans etc would do just fine.........but they elected to
>===<>> buyt smokes and booze......and kick back and wait for the $hit to hit
>===<>> the fan and then do their own ittle looting. These peope were ...[snip]
>===<>
>===<>Just to be clear, which "those people" are we talking about.
>===<>
>===<>-S
>===<>


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Derek Broughton]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote:

> I think that under the circumstances there is a big difference between
> those trying to get food and drinking water and those that are looting for
> the
> sake of it for material gain

Not always so. A woman was shot to death today in an argument over a bag of
ice...


--
derek

[[email protected]]

Snooze wrote:
> "Herb" > wrote in message
> news:6%cRe.27090$Uz2.22252@trnddc02...
> >> Good thing we have the national guard available to for deployment to
> >> assist their state in times of disaster and to prevent looting.
> >>
> >> -S
> >
> > You're absolutely right Snooze, since the governor of each state has
> > publicly stated that they have plenty of National Guardsmen available
> > to meet any need they have. If you really had the courage of your
> > conviction, you'd recommend the governor issue shoot to kill orders for
> > the looters, that way it wouldn't take that many Guardsmen or Police.
> > Once the word was out that looting will cost your life, it wouldn't
> > last long.
>
>
> The Koreans did exactly that, permission or not, in the Rodney King riots,
> seems word got out really quickly.
>
> -S

What I cant understand is the lack of unorganization by the goverment.
They knew this storm was coming and it didnt seem like they prepared
too well for transportation for people to leave the city. Also, why
doesnt Bush just send in a massive military force to put things under
control and stop the looting and organizie things? How about putting
some Navy and Coast Guard ships right off New Orleans and transporting
people to them via, boats, helicopter or whatever where then they can
have food and shelter. It just seems liek a big lack of communication
and unorganization. Am I looking at things wrongly or am I expecting
too much, I dont think so. Does anyone know if extra buses, trains, or
whatever were available for people to evacuate who couldnt afford any
other means?

[[email protected]]

Also for those people who are looting for personal gain should not be
rescued. Bush should put out an order about stopping the looting or
there will be severe consequences!

[[email protected]]

Also for those people who are looting for personal gain should not be
rescued. Bush should put out an order about stopping the looting or
there will be severe consequences!

[Reel Mckoi]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> What I cant understand is the lack of unorganization by the goverment.
> They knew this storm was coming and it didnt seem like they prepared
> too well for transportation for people to leave the city.

$$ There didn't seem to be any way at all for the poor to leave and where
would they have gone? They can't afford Motel and Hotels.

Also, why
> doesnt Bush just send in a massive military force to put things under
> control and stop the looting and organizie things? How about putting
> some Navy and Coast Guard ships right off New Orleans and transporting
> people to them via, boats, helicopter or whatever where then they can
> have food and shelter.

$$ That takes time. I heard that a ship is on the way. Someone needs to
pick up the dead bodies. In that head decomposition is rapid.

It just seems liek a big lack of communication
> and unorganization. Am I looking at things wrongly or am I expecting
> too much, I dont think so.

$$ I don't think anyone expected this storm to be so catastrophic.

Does anyone know if extra buses, trains, or
> whatever were available for people to evacuate who couldnt afford any
> other means?

$$ All I saw were some buses hauling them off to Texas.........
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>