pH Problem

[[email protected]]

Hi,

My pond is about 6 weeks old. I've been testing the water almost daily
and cannot bring down the pH to a safe level. It has been running
consistently at 9.0. Over time I have poured about 5 bottles of PH
Down and other pH lowering brands but with no luck. I test the water
around 6:00 am and some evenings.

The pond is about 2600 gallons with liner, 4' deep in middle, rock
bottom, 6' stream with 2 waterfalls, 4000GPH Nursery Pro pump, lava
rocks and plants in the waterfall box. My tests have been running 0
ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 Salt, 9 wide range ph. I have 15 fish from 2" -
4" which seem active and healthy. I also have many marginal plants.
I've been adding a dry bacteria about every 2 weeks.

My water is very clear but with a greenish tint. I am worried this
high pH will harm my fish. I am a beginner and still don't know much
about ponds.

Thanks,
Lois

[Reel Mckoi]

> wrote in message
news:1125493848.e09eb0ad4d5b35678ddb98cbd347caa0@t eranews...
> Hi,
>
> My pond is about 6 weeks old. I've been testing the water almost daily
> and cannot bring down the pH to a safe level. It has been running
> consistently at 9.0. Over time I have poured about 5 bottles of PH
> Down and other pH lowering brands but with no luck. I test the water
> around 6:00 am and some evenings.
>
> The pond is about 2600 gallons with liner, 4' deep in middle, rock
> bottom, 6' stream with 2 waterfalls, 4000GPH Nursery Pro pump, lava
> rocks and plants in the waterfall box. My tests have been running 0
> ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 Salt, 9 wide range ph. I have 15 fish from 2" -
> 4" which seem active and healthy. I also have many marginal plants.
> I've been adding a dry bacteria about every 2 weeks.
>
> My water is very clear but with a greenish tint. I am worried this
> high pH will harm my fish. I am a beginner and still don't know much
> about ponds.
============================
You can harm them more adding products that as you can see do not work or
work for a brief period of time. If the PH of the water from your tap is
lower than what's in your pond - you can do some water changes. However I
found over the years that pond fish can adjust to high PH. Rapid shifts in
PH are what causes them a problem.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Lois]

x-no-archive: yes
>
> wrote in message
>news:1125493848.e09eb0ad4d5b35678ddb98cbd347caa0@t eranews...
>> Hi,
>>
>> My pond is about 6 weeks old. I've been testing the water almost daily
>> and cannot bring down the pH to a safe level. It has been running
>> consistently at 9.0. Over time I have poured about 5 bottles of PH
>> Down and other pH lowering brands but with no luck. I test the water
>> around 6:00 am and some evenings.
>>
>> The pond is about 2600 gallons with liner, 4' deep in middle, rock
>> bottom, 6' stream with 2 waterfalls, 4000GPH Nursery Pro pump, lava
>> rocks and plants in the waterfall box. My tests have been running 0
>> ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 Salt, 9 wide range ph. I have 15 fish from 2" -
>> 4" which seem active and healthy. I also have many marginal plants.
>> I've been adding a dry bacteria about every 2 weeks.
>>
>> My water is very clear but with a greenish tint. I am worried this
>> high pH will harm my fish. I am a beginner and still don't know much
>> about ponds.
>============================
>You can harm them more adding products that as you can see do not work or
>work for a brief period of time. If the PH of the water from your tap is
>lower than what's in your pond - you can do some water changes. However I
>found over the years that pond fish can adjust to high PH. Rapid shifts in
>PH are what causes them a problem.


Thanks for your reply. I feel better now and I can find much better
things to spend my money on then chemicals!
Lois

[Reel Mckoi]

"Lois" > wrote in message
news:1125508633.d40d28beeb13fe09de19e1f9db8f96d7@t eranews...
> x-no-archive: yes
>>
> wrote in message
>>news:1125493848.e09eb0ad4d5b35678ddb98cbd347caa0@t eranews...
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> My pond is about 6 weeks old. I've been testing the water almost daily
>>> and cannot bring down the pH to a safe level. It has been running
>>> consistently at 9.0. Over time I have poured about 5 bottles of PH
>>> Down and other pH lowering brands but with no luck. I test the water
>>> around 6:00 am and some evenings.
>>>
>>> The pond is about 2600 gallons with liner, 4' deep in middle, rock
>>> bottom, 6' stream with 2 waterfalls, 4000GPH Nursery Pro pump, lava
>>> rocks and plants in the waterfall box. My tests have been running 0
>>> ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 Salt, 9 wide range ph. I have 15 fish from 2" -
>>> 4" which seem active and healthy. I also have many marginal plants.
>>> I've been adding a dry bacteria about every 2 weeks.
>>>
>>> My water is very clear but with a greenish tint. I am worried this
>>> high pH will harm my fish. I am a beginner and still don't know much
>>> about ponds.
>>============================
>>You can harm them more adding products that as you can see do not work or
>>work for a brief period of time. If the PH of the water from your tap is
>>lower than what's in your pond - you can do some water changes. However I
>>found over the years that pond fish can adjust to high PH. Rapid shifts
>>in
>>PH are what causes them a problem.
>
>
> Thanks for your reply. I feel better now and I can find much better
> things to spend my money on then chemicals!
> Lois
================
This is so true. Also, don't buy the overpriced pond fish food. My koi and
GF are thriving on catfish and trout chow mixed with a little kitten and
puppy chow. It's a fraction of the price. :-)
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[RichToyBox]

More improtant than the pH is the KH (carbonate hardness). The KH will
prevent pH swings, or at least severely restrict them. The carbonate
hardness is the ability of the water to absorb acids without changing pH.
For the pH Down to work, it first must consume all the KH before the pH
starts to change. Once the KH is gone, a pH crash is imminent. For a good
stable pond the pH should be above 80, with values of 100 being better and
200 or 300 not being unreasonable. Filters generate acids that consume KH,
and require resonable values of pH to function. So KH must be replaced
periodically. If your tap water has good KH values, this replacement of KH
can be accomplished by water changes which at 10% per week is needed anyway.
If the KH of the tap water is not high, then the addition of baking soda is
advisable.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

> wrote in message
news:1125493848.e09eb0ad4d5b35678ddb98cbd347caa0@t eranews...
> Hi,
>
> My pond is about 6 weeks old. I've been testing the water almost daily
> and cannot bring down the pH to a safe level. It has been running
> consistently at 9.0. Over time I have poured about 5 bottles of PH
> Down and other pH lowering brands but with no luck. I test the water
> around 6:00 am and some evenings.
>
> The pond is about 2600 gallons with liner, 4' deep in middle, rock
> bottom, 6' stream with 2 waterfalls, 4000GPH Nursery Pro pump, lava
> rocks and plants in the waterfall box. My tests have been running 0
> ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 Salt, 9 wide range ph. I have 15 fish from 2" -
> 4" which seem active and healthy. I also have many marginal plants.
> I've been adding a dry bacteria about every 2 weeks.
>
> My water is very clear but with a greenish tint. I am worried this
> high pH will harm my fish. I am a beginner and still don't know much
> about ponds.
>
> Thanks,
> Lois

[Lois]

x-no-archive: yes
>More improtant than the pH is the KH (carbonate hardness). The KH will
>prevent pH swings, or at least severely restrict them. The carbonate
>hardness is the ability of the water to absorb acids without changing pH.
>For the pH Down to work, it first must consume all the KH before the pH
>starts to change. Once the KH is gone, a pH crash is imminent. For a good
>stable pond the pH should be above 80, with values of 100 being better and
>200 or 300 not being unreasonable. Filters generate acids that consume KH,
>and require resonable values of pH to function. So KH must be replaced
>periodically. If your tap water has good KH values, this replacement of KH
>can be accomplished by water changes which at 10% per week is needed anyway.
>If the KH of the tap water is not high, then the addition of baking soda is
>advisable.

I haven't checked my pond water for KH. I guess I better buy a test
for that. I did forget to mention that my pond was filled with water
from my well.

Thanks for the information.

Lois

[Lois]

x-no-archive: yes
>
>"Lois" > wrote in message
>news:1125508633.d40d28beeb13fe09de19e1f9db8f96d7@t eranews...
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>
> wrote in message
>>>news:1125493848.e09eb0ad4d5b35678ddb98cbd347caa0@t eranews...
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> My pond is about 6 weeks old. I've been testing the water almost daily
>>>> and cannot bring down the pH to a safe level. It has been running
>>>> consistently at 9.0. Over time I have poured about 5 bottles of PH
>>>> Down and other pH lowering brands but with no luck. I test the water
>>>> around 6:00 am and some evenings.
>>>>
>>>> The pond is about 2600 gallons with liner, 4' deep in middle, rock
>>>> bottom, 6' stream with 2 waterfalls, 4000GPH Nursery Pro pump, lava
>>>> rocks and plants in the waterfall box. My tests have been running 0
>>>> ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 Salt, 9 wide range ph. I have 15 fish from 2" -
>>>> 4" which seem active and healthy. I also have many marginal plants.
>>>> I've been adding a dry bacteria about every 2 weeks.
>>>>
>>>> My water is very clear but with a greenish tint. I am worried this
>>>> high pH will harm my fish. I am a beginner and still don't know much
>>>> about ponds.
>>>============================
>>>You can harm them more adding products that as you can see do not work or
>>>work for a brief period of time. If the PH of the water from your tap is
>>>lower than what's in your pond - you can do some water changes. However I
>>>found over the years that pond fish can adjust to high PH. Rapid shifts
>>>in
>>>PH are what causes them a problem.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. I feel better now and I can find much better
>> things to spend my money on then chemicals!
>> Lois
>================
>This is so true. Also, don't buy the overpriced pond fish food. My koi and
>GF are thriving on catfish and trout chow mixed with a little kitten and
>puppy chow. It's a fraction of the price. :-)

Good idea!

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>>================
>>This is so true. Also, don't buy the overpriced pond fish food. My koi and
>>GF are thriving on catfish and trout chow mixed with a little kitten and
>>puppy chow. It's a fraction of the price. :-)
>
>Good idea!

Not! ;o) Just for the record Lois, many of us don't recommend using these
gamefish foods. There is a lot of stuff in it that doesn't digest well in a
koi and goes straight thru to the foul the water.

If you wouldn't feed pig chow to your dog, don't feed gamefish chow to pet
koi/goldfish. You may save a buck or 2, but it isn't healthy for pet fish,
who you want to have long healthy lives, not fatten up for the dinner
table. I'm just repeating what the koivets recommend. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Lois]

x-no-archive: yes
>>>================
>>>This is so true. Also, don't buy the overpriced pond fish food. My koi and
>>>GF are thriving on catfish and trout chow mixed with a little kitten and
>>>puppy chow. It's a fraction of the price. :-)
>>
>>Good idea!
>
>Not! ;o) Just for the record Lois, many of us don't recommend using these
>gamefish foods. There is a lot of stuff in it that doesn't digest well in a
>koi and goes straight thru to the foul the water.
>
>If you wouldn't feed pig chow to your dog, don't feed gamefish chow to pet
>koi/goldfish. You may save a buck or 2, but it isn't healthy for pet fish,
>who you want to have long healthy lives, not fatten up for the dinner
>table. I'm just repeating what the koivets recommend. ~ jan
>
>
>See my ponds and filter design:
>www.jjspond.us
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website

Ok, I did find some inexpensive Koi food at a discount store that all
my fish seem to like. I also heard that most fish do very well on
their own finding food themselves. So feeding isn't necessary except
maybe a treat now and then.

Lois

[Hal]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:37:44 -0400, Lois > wrote:

>I also heard that most fish do very well on
>their own finding food themselves. So feeding isn't necessary except
>maybe a treat now and then.

You were talking about koi in a "liner" pond? A koi, that is a
bottom feeder fish that has teeth in the back of, or behind their
mouth for crushing snail and muscle shells found in a mud bottom
environment.

It ain't so much what folks don't know, but so much of what folks know
ain't right.

Regards,

Hal

[RichToyBox]

Feeding is not necessary, if the population is small. Most of us have more
fish than the pond will support naturally. We have to have large filters,
extra aeration, and food for the fish. There are foods that are relatively
inexpensive, and then there are very very expensive foods. The quality of
the food is generally shown in the price. Better food, better digestion,
less waste, also less food needed to support the growth of the fish. Many
people supplement the food with treats such as oranges, watermelon, romaine
lettuce, brown bread, and a host of other foods. As the fish get larger,
they do not require as much protein in their diet, and these treats are
good. For young fish, they really need more protein, as they are growing
very fast.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Lois" > wrote in message
news:1125664677.3634ae82b080f0f1a0105a1c6cf959d9@t eranews...
> x-no-archive: yes
>>>>================
> Ok, I did find some inexpensive Koi food at a discount store that all
> my fish seem to like. I also heard that most fish do very well on
> their own finding food themselves. So feeding isn't necessary except
> maybe a treat now and then.
>
> Lois

[Derek Broughton]

Hal wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:37:44 -0400, Lois > wrote:
>
>>I also heard that most fish do very well on
>>their own finding food themselves. So feeding isn't necessary except
>>maybe a treat now and then.
>
> You were talking about koi in a "liner" pond? A koi, that is a
> bottom feeder fish that has teeth in the back of, or behind their
> mouth for crushing snail and muscle shells found in a mud bottom
> environment.
>
> It ain't so much what folks don't know, but so much of what folks know
> ain't right.

One of which would be that koi won't find those things in a liner pond? Mine
always had plenty of little inverts, and the koi always ate them. The fish
probably didn't grow as fast as they would if they were fed a high-quality
food, but they were always healthy. I only ever fed them irregularly.
--
derek

[Reel Mckoi]

"Lois" > wrote in message
news:1125664677.3634ae82b080f0f1a0105a1c6cf959d9@t eranews...
>
> Ok, I did find some inexpensive Koi food at a discount store that all
> my fish seem to like.

$$ Food at discount stores not used by anyone I ever knew. They're often
stale and totally lacking in nutrition.

I also heard that most fish do very well on
> their own finding food themselves.

$$ Yes, if the pond is huge, has a natural soil bottom and is full of native
vegetation. Young fish are big eaters and our liner ponds don't offer
enough for them to thrive.

So feeding isn't necessary except
> maybe a treat now and then.

$$ I hope you're talking about guppies or other tiny fish. Goldfish and koi
are large fish .......... :-)
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Hal]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:49:08 -0300, Derek Broughton
> wrote:

>> It ain't so much what folks don't know, but so much of what folks know
>> ain't right.
>
>One of which would be that koi won't find those things in a liner pond? Mine
>always had plenty of little inverts, and the koi always ate them. The fish
>probably didn't grow as fast as they would if they were fed a high-quality
>food, but they were always healthy. I only ever fed them irregularly.

I tend to think other folks have a pond like mine with more fish than
such a small ecosystem could naturally support. I've seen people
keep fish from growing and wouldn't want to raise them in that manner.
I try to not get sticky over the fish's feelings, just don't think I
want to keep them or anything else without feeding them.

Regards,

Hal

[Bill]

As I recall, the pH scale is 14 maximum with 7 being neutral--how can you
have a pH of 80?

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
...
> More improtant than the pH is the KH (carbonate hardness). The KH will
> prevent pH swings, or at least severely restrict them. The carbonate
> hardness is the ability of the water to absorb acids without changing pH.
> For the pH Down to work, it first must consume all the KH before the pH
> starts to change. Once the KH is gone, a pH crash is imminent. For a
good
> stable pond the pH should be above 80, with values of 100 being better and
> 200 or 300 not being unreasonable. Filters generate acids that consume
KH,
> and require resonable values of pH to function. So KH must be replaced
> periodically. If your tap water has good KH values, this replacement of
KH
> can be accomplished by water changes which at 10% per week is needed
anyway.
> If the KH of the tap water is not high, then the addition of baking soda
is
> advisable.
> --
> RichToyBox
> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>
> > wrote in message
> news:1125493848.e09eb0ad4d5b35678ddb98cbd347caa0@t eranews...
> > Hi,
> >
> > My pond is about 6 weeks old. I've been testing the water almost daily
> > and cannot bring down the pH to a safe level. It has been running
> > consistently at 9.0. Over time I have poured about 5 bottles of PH
> > Down and other pH lowering brands but with no luck. I test the water
> > around 6:00 am and some evenings.
> >
> > The pond is about 2600 gallons with liner, 4' deep in middle, rock
> > bottom, 6' stream with 2 waterfalls, 4000GPH Nursery Pro pump, lava
> > rocks and plants in the waterfall box. My tests have been running 0
> > ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 Salt, 9 wide range ph. I have 15 fish from 2" -
> > 4" which seem active and healthy. I also have many marginal plants.
> > I've been adding a dry bacteria about every 2 weeks.
> >
> > My water is very clear but with a greenish tint. I am worried this
> > high pH will harm my fish. I am a beginner and still don't know much
> > about ponds.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lois
>
>
>