Veggie filter growing poorly

[mark Bannister]

New pond had been up and running all Summer now, but the veggie filter
is growing rather poorly. (There are some pictures here after the first
planting: http://www.injection-moldings.com/EBPAGE/pond/.)

The first planting was eaten by the fish. Some minor changes and only
the smallest fish can get it now, but growth is not what I expected.
The pond gets 5-6 hours or full afternoon sun. Watercress and a few
other things grow OK, but the cattails and other reed type things all
died. I'm not getting the flourish of growth I had expected
I threw in some potash but no real appearance change. Poor color along
with death seem to be the primary symptoms.
Water parameters are all in normal range, PH stable and in the 7.8
range. All hardness levels are good as well.
On the plus side the filter is doing its job; the water is clear, but it
just looks like crap.
Any thoughts?

Mark B.

[Reel Mckoi]

"mark Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> New pond had been up and running all Summer now, but the veggie filter is
> growing rather poorly. (There are some pictures here after the first
> planting: http://www.injection-moldings.com/EBPAGE/pond/.)

$$ It's hard to tell what kind of plants you have in that filter. The may
need Potash. The plants in our veggie filter are Arrowhead, parrots feather
and Pickerel weed. All get HUGE in the slow moving water.

> The first planting was eaten by the fish.

$$ Fish don't belong in a veggie filter?!?!?!?!

Some minor changes and only
> the smallest fish can get it now, but growth is not what I expected. The
> pond gets 5-6 hours or full afternoon sun. Watercress and a few other
> things grow OK, but the cattails and other reed type things all died.

$$ Could it be a lack of fertilizer? Some plants wont thrive in gravel.

I'm not getting the flourish of growth I had expected
> I threw in some potash but no real appearance change.

$$ The amount generally used is 1 heaping Tbs. per 1000 gallons as needed -
perhaps about once a month. Again, if they're in gravel they may never do
well. It just doesn't hold enough nutrients for some plants.

Poor color along
> with death seem to be the primary symptoms.
> Water parameters are all in normal range, PH stable and in the 7.8 range.
> All hardness levels are good as well.
> On the plus side the filter is doing its job; the water is clear, but it
> just looks like crap.
> Any thoughts?
>
> Mark B.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Bonnie NJ]

Hi Mark,

How large are your fish? My fish feed the veggie filter quite well. Maybe
you just have to let your fish grow large enough to feed the filter ;-)
I always have a few fish that make their way into the filter. I think the
eggs get sent through the pump and stick to the plant roots. Some grow
quite well there during the summer.

--
Bonnie
NJ

[Snooze]

"mark Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> New pond had been up and running all Summer now, but the veggie filter is
> growing rather poorly. (There are some pictures here after the first
> planting: http://www.injection-moldings.com/EBPAGE/pond/.)

Do the plants get enough sunlight?
Try thinning out some of the plants, maybe you have more plants then the
fish can feed.

-S

[mark Bannister]

Reel Mckoi wrote:
<snip>
>
> $$ Fish don't belong in a veggie filter?!?!?!?!
Well that's why I kicked them out <g>. Small design error on my part.
On the other hand they REALLY like it. I had three large fish flop over
the barrier to get back in which meant they had to leave the water.

>
> $$ Could it be a lack of fertilizer? Some plants wont thrive in gravel.
>
This seems to be the bottom line. I've really got to get some height
going for aesthetics so I guess I'll use a shallow pot.

Thanks
Mark

[mark Bannister]

Snooze wrote:

> Do the plants get enough sunlight?
> Try thinning out some of the plants, maybe you have more plants then the
> fish can feed.
>
> -S
>
>

They should be getting plenty of sun. And it is possible I don't have
enough fish yet. There are about 15 goldfish in 750 gallons, sized from
quite small to 10" or so. I stepped up the feeding to see if that would
change anything and now I have very fat goldfish but the plants are the
same.

Mark B.

[Reel Mckoi]

"mark Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> Reel Mckoi wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> $$ Fish don't belong in a veggie filter?!?!?!?!

> Well that's why I kicked them out <g>. Small design error on my part. On
> the other hand they REALLY like it. I had three large fish flop over the
> barrier to get back in which meant they had to leave the water.

## Wow! They must have known the plants were there somehow. Out Veg
filter sits on the berm with a pipe pushing water up into a crude aeration
tower. It then runs slowly through the plant roots and parrot feather
tangles, then out 2 pipes back into the pond - opposite the filter itself.
There is a 3rd pipe to act as an overflow. When it's cleaned in the fall
there are literally POUNDS of sludge in the bottom.

>> $$ Could it be a lack of fertilizer? Some plants wont thrive in gravel.

> This seems to be the bottom line. I've really got to get some height
> going for aesthetics so I guess I'll use a shallow pot.

## For veg filters I found using cheesecloth lined POND plant pots work the
best. It gives the roots opening to grow out into the water flow and yet
holds soil with the needed micronutrients. If you use regular pots punch
extra holes in them. The roots eventually take over the whole 40 to 50
gallon filter. I don't fertilize these plants individually but do add
several Tbs. of Potash every month or so. The Pickerel is excellent for
height as are water iris - I used to use them but they got 5' tall and
blocked too much of the view.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel Mckoi]

"mark Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> They should be getting plenty of sun. And it is possible I don't have
> enough fish yet. There are about 15 goldfish in 750 gallons, sized from
> quite small to 10" or so. I stepped up the feeding to see if that would
> change anything and now I have very fat goldfish but the plants are the
> same.
=============================
That's plenty of fish for 750 gallons. I'm going to guess these plants need
to be put in soil, perhaps with a 1/3 spike of Jobe's Rose fertilizer added.
Always cover the soil with gravel to help keep it in place.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Mark,

End of summer is attended by a slowing of growth. Your fish should be
enough and to spare...tho' they may be new enough that more sludge needs
to build up. Our plants have slowed down now for the end of
summer...even here in MS.

Jim

mark Bannister wrote:
> New pond had been up and running all Summer now, but the veggie filter
> is growing rather poorly. (There are some pictures here after the first
> planting: http://www.injection-moldings.com/EBPAGE/pond/.)
>
> The first planting was eaten by the fish. Some minor changes and only
> the smallest fish can get it now, but growth is not what I expected. The
> pond gets 5-6 hours or full afternoon sun. Watercress and a few other
> things grow OK, but the cattails and other reed type things all died.
> I'm not getting the flourish of growth I had expected
> I threw in some potash but no real appearance change. Poor color along
> with death seem to be the primary symptoms.
> Water parameters are all in normal range, PH stable and in the 7.8
> range. All hardness levels are good as well.
> On the plus side the filter is doing its job; the water is clear, but it
> just looks like crap.
> Any thoughts?
>
> Mark B.

[Snooze]

"mark Bannister" > wrote in message
...
>
> They should be getting plenty of sun. And it is possible I don't have
> enough fish yet. There are about 15 goldfish in 750 gallons, sized from
> quite small to 10" or so. I stepped up the feeding to see if that would
> change anything and now I have very fat goldfish but the plants are the
> same.

Rule of thumb is atleast 20 gal per full grown goldfish and 100 gallons per
full grown koi, so you can put a max of 37 fish.
As someone else already suggested, plant your plants in clay or soil instead
of gravel.

What I do, is fill a terracotta pot with supersoil potting soil, add in the
plant, then cover the top inch or so with pea gravel.
I personally have never added any fertilizers, but give it a try, maybe it
will work for you.

-S

[Wilmdale]

Well, Mark,
It could be that it will do better next season and if you have been
getting cooler weather in the evenings now, that will start to slow
down their growth considerably. It is still very warm during the day
here in Colorado Springs, but the evenings are turning cool and I notice
that my cattails are starting to yellow as well as the iris, lilies, and
WH. Last year I tried plants - parrots feather, wh, arrowhead, water
cress, duck week, etc - nothing much happened. This year? Things are
just the opposite. Stuck some plants in the water with a few fertilizer
stakes and for the first time in 3 seasons I have had clear water and
abundant foliage since June. Just give it a bit more time next season.
Don't forget to fertilize at the beginning.
Hope this helps.
W. Dale

mark Bannister wrote:

> New pond had been up and running all Summer now, but the veggie filter
> is growing rather poorly. (There are some pictures here after the
> first planting: http://www.injection-moldings.com/EBPAGE/pond/.)
>
> The first planting was eaten by the fish. Some minor changes and only
> the smallest fish can get it now, but growth is not what I expected.
> The pond gets 5-6 hours or full afternoon sun. Watercress and a few
> other things grow OK, but the cattails and other reed type things all
> died. I'm not getting the flourish of growth I had expected
> I threw in some potash but no real appearance change. Poor color
> along with death seem to be the primary symptoms.
> Water parameters are all in normal range, PH stable and in the 7.8
> range. All hardness levels are good as well.
> On the plus side the filter is doing its job; the water is clear, but
> it just looks like crap.
> Any thoughts?
>
> Mark B.

[Koi A'Hoy]

Bonnie NJ wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> How large are your fish?

My fish are bigger than yours