Rainbow Fish

[Fantastic Derek]

Hi

I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.

Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
advice?

Thanks

[Steve]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Hi
>
> I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
> these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
> twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
> that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>
> Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
> reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
> upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
> passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
> them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
> the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
> again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
> boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
> accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
> that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
> advice?
>
> Thanks

Hi Derek,
Glad to hear you're trying rainbow fish. They've been a mainstay in my
90-gal planted community aquarium. I've had "ordinary" rainbowfish,
followed by Boesmani rainbows, and now have a group of dwarf neon
rainbowfish. In each case I've purchased a group of 6 fish, with the
last survivor living perhaps 5 years in my tank. I don't know about
"Blue Rainbowfish", but expect they'd be easy-to-care-for fish like mine
have been.

I started into rainbowfish when I set up my tank in 1991 in a hard water
situation. Baensch's Aquarium Atlas said they would do well in hard,
alkaline water, and that they are "easy" fish. Baensch was right, but
the rainbows also seem to do well in my new, softer/ lower alkalinity
location. I did have some cycling problems with the new aquarium in
1991, and may have lost a rainbowfish or two due to that.

My suggestion is, to try another store or at least rainbows of another
variety from a different tank in the fish store. Because they're fairly
large fish, perhaps transport them only 1 or 2 to a bag? Also, a large
aquarium will likely help. How large is your new, "bigger" aquarium?

God luck!
Steve

[Fantastic Derek]

Thanks, Steve! I brought them home two in a bag actually. I'm not sure
what I'm going to do really. Do they do better in groups larger than
two or is it ok to keep them in the two I've got? If I do get more
I'll definitely get them from a different shop and I'm going to ask
the first one for my money back. I've got a 4ft tank now BTW.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:20:22 -0400, Steve > wrote:

>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
>> these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
>> twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
>> that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>>
>> Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
>> reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
>> upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
>> passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
>> them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
>> the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
>> again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
>> boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
>> accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
>> that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
>> advice?
>>
>> Thanks
>
>Hi Derek,
>Glad to hear you're trying rainbow fish. They've been a mainstay in my
>90-gal planted community aquarium. I've had "ordinary" rainbowfish,
>followed by Boesmani rainbows, and now have a group of dwarf neon
>rainbowfish. In each case I've purchased a group of 6 fish, with the
>last survivor living perhaps 5 years in my tank. I don't know about
>"Blue Rainbowfish", but expect they'd be easy-to-care-for fish like mine
>have been.
>
>I started into rainbowfish when I set up my tank in 1991 in a hard water
>situation. Baensch's Aquarium Atlas said they would do well in hard,
>alkaline water, and that they are "easy" fish. Baensch was right, but
>the rainbows also seem to do well in my new, softer/ lower alkalinity
>location. I did have some cycling problems with the new aquarium in
>1991, and may have lost a rainbowfish or two due to that.
>
>My suggestion is, to try another store or at least rainbows of another
>variety from a different tank in the fish store. Because they're fairly
>large fish, perhaps transport them only 1 or 2 to a bag? Also, a large
>aquarium will likely help. How large is your new, "bigger" aquarium?
>
>God luck!
>Steve

[Jim Anderson]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Hi
>
> I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
> these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
> twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
> that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>
> Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
> reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
> upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
> passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
> them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
> the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
> again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
> boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
> accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
> that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
> advice?
>
> Thanks

I have 6 Dwarf Neon Rainbows (about 2 inches now) in my dwarf Mbuna tank and
from my observations they need lots of targets for there 'who's the biggest
bully' game. Mine spend half their time nipping, tail slapping each other in
the face and chassing in very tight circles, and the other half hoovering in
a tight group just watching the Mbuna fish. For all their nipping, there are
no torn fins or any other injury, which amazes me. As far as their
hardieness, on a scale of 1-10, 10 being hard to kill, I'd give Rainbows in
general about a 4, my dwarf neons are know to get ick very easily so I rate
them a 3.

The Mbunas, trio Dwarf Pseudotropheus saulosi, 2 Electric Yellow
(Labidochromis caeruleus, both male I think?), 1 Alonocara Rubescens Red,
seem to completely ignore the rainbows and vice versa. The Rainbows have
been a great addition to my tank.

[Fantastic Derek]

Yeah. I'm not sure they're as hardy as the shop says, but tehy should
be hardy enough to survive a trip home. I'm very careful with my fish
whilst transporting and I always turn the lights off when
acclimatising them to my tank.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:07:26 GMT, "Jim Anderson"
> wrote:

>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
>> these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
>> twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
>> that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>>
>> Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
>> reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
>> upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
>> passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
>> them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
>> the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
>> again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
>> boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
>> accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
>> that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
>> advice?
>>
>> Thanks
>
>I have 6 Dwarf Neon Rainbows (about 2 inches now) in my dwarf Mbuna tank and
>from my observations they need lots of targets for there 'who's the biggest
>bully' game. Mine spend half their time nipping, tail slapping each other in
>the face and chassing in very tight circles, and the other half hoovering in
>a tight group just watching the Mbuna fish. For all their nipping, there are
>no torn fins or any other injury, which amazes me. As far as their
>hardieness, on a scale of 1-10, 10 being hard to kill, I'd give Rainbows in
>general about a 4, my dwarf neons are know to get ick very easily so I rate
>them a 3.
>
>The Mbunas, trio Dwarf Pseudotropheus saulosi, 2 Electric Yellow
>(Labidochromis caeruleus, both male I think?), 1 Alonocara Rubescens Red,
>seem to completely ignore the rainbows and vice versa. The Rainbows have
>been a great addition to my tank.
>

[Steve]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Thanks, Steve! I brought them home two in a bag actually. I'm not sure
> what I'm going to do really. Do they do better in groups larger than
> two or is it ok to keep them in the two I've got? If I do get more
> I'll definitely get them from a different shop and I'm going to ask
> the first one for my money back. I've got a 4ft tank now BTW.
>

Derek,

Here's the link for "Home of the Rainbowfish":
http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/ . This site and Baensch's atlas
say they're schooling fish, and the site suggests that certain species
must be kept in a group.

As mentioned before, I've purchased 6 at a time. However, as they died
off I ended up with 1 or 2 fish. They do "beat up" on each other now and
then, especially after a water change, so the larger group may help that.

Please consider whether your aquarium has fully cycled, and whether it
is ready to support a group of largish fish. If there's any doubt, I
would suggest keeping the 2 rainbowfish you have, and shopping for more
in a month or two.

Steve

[Fantastic Derek]

Thanks for that. I believe the tank is fully cylced. I did a fishless
cycle and have had no ammonia or nitrites (tested daily) since a few
days before I intrduced any fish. I am going to leave it anyway and
see how thes two do.

Thanks again!


On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 07:37:30 -0400, Steve > wrote:

>
>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>> Thanks, Steve! I brought them home two in a bag actually. I'm not sure
>> what I'm going to do really. Do they do better in groups larger than
>> two or is it ok to keep them in the two I've got? If I do get more
>> I'll definitely get them from a different shop and I'm going to ask
>> the first one for my money back. I've got a 4ft tank now BTW.
>>
>
>Derek,
>
>Here's the link for "Home of the Rainbowfish":
>http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/ . This site and Baensch's atlas
>say they're schooling fish, and the site suggests that certain species
>must be kept in a group.
>
>As mentioned before, I've purchased 6 at a time. However, as they died
>off I ended up with 1 or 2 fish. They do "beat up" on each other now and
>then, especially after a water change, so the larger group may help that.
>
>Please consider whether your aquarium has fully cycled, and whether it
>is ready to support a group of largish fish. If there's any doubt, I
>would suggest keeping the 2 rainbowfish you have, and shopping for more
>in a month or two.
>
>Steve

[lgb]

In article >,
says...
> They do "beat up" on each other now and
> then, especially after a water change, so the larger group may help that.
>
Could that have something to do with the male/female ratio? I've been
thinking about putting dwarf rainbows in a tank in the near future, and
from what I read you need a couple of males and 3-5 females for a
"working" group.

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[Steve]

lgb wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>They do "beat up" on each other now and
>>then, especially after a water change, so the larger group may help that.
>>
>
> Could that have something to do with the male/female ratio? I've been
> thinking about putting dwarf rainbows in a tank in the near future, and
> from what I read you need a couple of males and 3-5 females for a
> "working" group.
>

I have the idea, read it on the net somehere :) :) , that breeders of
the more special varieties try to ship only males. This is supposed to
be an attempt to prevent hobbyists from breeding the fish. My Boesmani
rainbows were all male, and I think that my neon dwarf rainbowfish may
all be male, so this net lore may be true.

BTW, rainbowfish are easy to bred. My "ordinary" Australian rainbowfish,
would spawn in the Java Moss after every water change. I've successfully
raised a few young, after accidentally transferring eggs (on plants?) to
a quarantine tank, and seeing the tiny babies a while later.

Steve

[Gill Passman]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Hi
>
> I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
> these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
> twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
> that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>
> Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
> reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
> upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
> passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
> them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
> the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
> again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
> boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
> accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
> that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
> advice?
>
> Thanks

I don't know where you bought them from but I'm guessing one of our
local places...Rainbows are schooling fish and definitely need to be
kept in numbers greater than one or two. I recently acquired some
Boesmans and Red Rainbows and bought three of each (one of the reds died
quite quickly). The blues are very pretty fish - for those that don't
know they have a horizontal line and the blue is below and silver on top
- unlike the Boesmans that have a vertical line. I actually was very
tempted to get a mature one the other day but was advised against it as
my other Rainbows are still juvs.

I actually very much sympathise with your stance on this. I have had a
high casualty list with recently purchased fish over the last 3-4 weeks
and think that this is unacceptable - 3 (at least)Neons, 3 Clown
Loaches, 1 red rainbow and tonight 1 Rummy Nose - all purchased in the
same place - but in the past I have had a high success rate from that
source so I'm guessing something is going on that us customers are not
aware of. All in all this equates to between £30-40 of fish and I don't
have money to throw away like this...and that is before thinking of the
poor fish...I hope you got a refund....the other shop I use (where it
has to be said I have had bad experiences in the past) for now the fish
are now doing well (apart from a small question mark over some tiny
yoyos that we haven't seen today).

I avoid "Pets at Home" but at least they do give a money back guarantee
over fish that die within the first one/two weeks - I always put this
down to the high level of losses and maintaining reputation (and I might
be doing them a great disservice in this assumption). But equally I am
starting to get very fed up with buying fish and having them die on me
within days and if you mention anything getting asked "how long has the
tank been running?" or "do you have ammonia or nitrites?"

You hit a raw nerve here and like you I am just fed up with losing newly
acquired fish....If they are from where I suspect and you get no joy I
belive MA (brand) audit the franchises (in fact I was at one while it
was happening) so maybe an approach to the parent company might be in line

Gill

[Fantastic Derek]

Whcih shop have you had these problems at? I got the rainbows from MA
at Hare Hatch. To be fair to them I spoke to the manager there
yesterday and after asking me suitably searching questions, which made
me feel a lot better about their level of knowledge, he offered me
credit on both of the lost fish. I might get a couple of the red ones
there. They are a little bigger, but very pretty indeed. Will they mix
well enough with my blues?

Gill, did you get those tiny Yoyo Loaches from Hare Hatch? I saw some
there the other day and was thinking about these guys as an
alternative to clowns.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:26:24 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
>> these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
>> twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
>> that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>>
>> Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
>> reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
>> upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
>> passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
>> them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
>> the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
>> again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
>> boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
>> accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
>> that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
>> advice?
>>
>> Thanks
>
>I don't know where you bought them from but I'm guessing one of our
>local places...Rainbows are schooling fish and definitely need to be
>kept in numbers greater than one or two. I recently acquired some
>Boesmans and Red Rainbows and bought three of each (one of the reds died
>quite quickly). The blues are very pretty fish - for those that don't
>know they have a horizontal line and the blue is below and silver on top
>- unlike the Boesmans that have a vertical line. I actually was very
>tempted to get a mature one the other day but was advised against it as
>my other Rainbows are still juvs.
>
>I actually very much sympathise with your stance on this. I have had a
>high casualty list with recently purchased fish over the last 3-4 weeks
>and think that this is unacceptable - 3 (at least)Neons, 3 Clown
>Loaches, 1 red rainbow and tonight 1 Rummy Nose - all purchased in the
>same place - but in the past I have had a high success rate from that
>source so I'm guessing something is going on that us customers are not
>aware of. All in all this equates to between £30-40 of fish and I don't
>have money to throw away like this...and that is before thinking of the
>poor fish...I hope you got a refund....the other shop I use (where it
>has to be said I have had bad experiences in the past) for now the fish
>are now doing well (apart from a small question mark over some tiny
>yoyos that we haven't seen today).
>
>I avoid "Pets at Home" but at least they do give a money back guarantee
>over fish that die within the first one/two weeks - I always put this
>down to the high level of losses and maintaining reputation (and I might
>be doing them a great disservice in this assumption). But equally I am
>starting to get very fed up with buying fish and having them die on me
>within days and if you mention anything getting asked "how long has the
>tank been running?" or "do you have ammonia or nitrites?"
>
>You hit a raw nerve here and like you I am just fed up with losing newly
>acquired fish....If they are from where I suspect and you get no joy I
>belive MA (brand) audit the franchises (in fact I was at one while it
>was happening) so maybe an approach to the parent company might be in line
>
>Gill

[Gill Passman]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Whcih shop have you had these problems at? I got the rainbows from MA
> at Hare Hatch. To be fair to them I spoke to the manager there
> yesterday and after asking me suitably searching questions, which made
> me feel a lot better about their level of knowledge, he offered me
> credit on both of the lost fish. I might get a couple of the red ones
> there. They are a little bigger, but very pretty indeed. Will they mix
> well enough with my blues?
>
> Gill, did you get those tiny Yoyo Loaches from Hare Hatch? I saw some
> there the other day and was thinking about these guys as an
> alternative to clowns.
>
> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:26:24 +0100, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>
>>>Hi
>>>
>>>I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
>>>these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
>>>twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
>>>that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>>>
>>>Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
>>>reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
>>>upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
>>>passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
>>>them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
>>>the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
>>>again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
>>>boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
>>>accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
>>>that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
>>>advice?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>
>>I don't know where you bought them from but I'm guessing one of our
>>local places...Rainbows are schooling fish and definitely need to be
>>kept in numbers greater than one or two. I recently acquired some
>>Boesmans and Red Rainbows and bought three of each (one of the reds died
>>quite quickly). The blues are very pretty fish - for those that don't
>>know they have a horizontal line and the blue is below and silver on top
>>- unlike the Boesmans that have a vertical line. I actually was very
>>tempted to get a mature one the other day but was advised against it as
>>my other Rainbows are still juvs.
>>
>>I actually very much sympathise with your stance on this. I have had a
>>high casualty list with recently purchased fish over the last 3-4 weeks
>>and think that this is unacceptable - 3 (at least)Neons, 3 Clown
>>Loaches, 1 red rainbow and tonight 1 Rummy Nose - all purchased in the
>>same place - but in the past I have had a high success rate from that
>>source so I'm guessing something is going on that us customers are not
>>aware of. All in all this equates to between £30-40 of fish and I don't
>>have money to throw away like this...and that is before thinking of the
>>poor fish...I hope you got a refund....the other shop I use (where it
>>has to be said I have had bad experiences in the past) for now the fish
>>are now doing well (apart from a small question mark over some tiny
>>yoyos that we haven't seen today).
>>
>>I avoid "Pets at Home" but at least they do give a money back guarantee
>>over fish that die within the first one/two weeks - I always put this
>>down to the high level of losses and maintaining reputation (and I might
>>be doing them a great disservice in this assumption). But equally I am
>>starting to get very fed up with buying fish and having them die on me
>>within days and if you mention anything getting asked "how long has the
>>tank been running?" or "do you have ammonia or nitrites?"
>>
>>You hit a raw nerve here and like you I am just fed up with losing newly
>>acquired fish....If they are from where I suspect and you get no joy I
>>belive MA (brand) audit the franchises (in fact I was at one while it
>>was happening) so maybe an approach to the parent company might be in line
>>
>>Gill

Probably not fair to name names....it also has to be said that from my
experiences these things seem to go in cycles. And I have been buying an
awful lot of fish recently for various tanks.

Yep, got the YoYos at Hare Hatch. The only problem with them being so
tiny is that they can vanish in the tank. My son was so concerned this
morning that I had to go on a YoYo hunt for him - found 3 of them. I
have no reason to suppose that the 4th isn't in there somewhere as the
tank is heavily planted with lots of hiding places. Henley have actually
got some quite big ones at the moment which I'm tempted by. BTW did you
spot that massive Clown Loach at HH - I was sorely tempted but having
gone through all sorts of problems with my CLs I just want to leave the
3 healthy ones that I now have rather than risk introducing any further
problems.

I've got Red Rainbows with my Boesmans and they are schooling quite well
together so it would be worth checking into whether the Blues would fit
in just as well. I asked when I was considering the big one at Henley
the only negative factor was the maturity of the fish in question when
mixing with the ones that I already have. The only problem that I have
with my Male Red Rainbow is he seems to be confused by the Platys and
chases them a little bit too much especially the female who has a
similar colouration.

BTW have you tried the little independant shop along the Oxford Road. It
certainly used to have a very good reputation. I went in a few weeks ago
and they were in a middle of a refurb but the tanks they had running
looked clean and the fish looked healthy. Asked the staff a few
questions and they seemed very knowledgeable. They just didn't have
anything that I wanted at that point.

Gill

[Fantastic Derek]

Yeah I have been to the one on the Oxford Road, but I decided to
withhold judgement until they've finished their refurb. The tanks do
seem clean enough and I haven't spotted any dead fish yet, but the
shop itself looks a bit tatty right now. The guy there told me they
are getting marine fish upstairs. They did have some elephant nose
fish in there which are great, but I'm not sure they'd suit my tank.

What other shops have you been to locally? I've tried the two MAs
we've discussed plus the one in Bracknell which I thought was pretty
good. I've also been to Pets At Home and the one at the garden centre
in Shnfield. That seemed ok. There's some fairly interesting fish in
the MA in Thatcham. I've become quite obsessive about visiting as many
shops as I can. I have to visit my customers all over the country and
I try and see the local shop in every town I got to! Know any others
loaclly that I've missed?

I think I'll go for those Red Rainbows - are you going to get the
Rams?




On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:05:51 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>> Whcih shop have you had these problems at? I got the rainbows from MA
>> at Hare Hatch. To be fair to them I spoke to the manager there
>> yesterday and after asking me suitably searching questions, which made
>> me feel a lot better about their level of knowledge, he offered me
>> credit on both of the lost fish. I might get a couple of the red ones
>> there. They are a little bigger, but very pretty indeed. Will they mix
>> well enough with my blues?
>>
>> Gill, did you get those tiny Yoyo Loaches from Hare Hatch? I saw some
>> there the other day and was thinking about these guys as an
>> alternative to clowns.
>>
>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:26:24 +0100, Gill Passman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi
>>>>
>>>>I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
>>>>these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
>>>>twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
>>>>that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
>>>>reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
>>>>upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
>>>>passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
>>>>them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
>>>>the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
>>>>again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
>>>>boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
>>>>accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
>>>>that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
>>>>advice?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>I don't know where you bought them from but I'm guessing one of our
>>>local places...Rainbows are schooling fish and definitely need to be
>>>kept in numbers greater than one or two. I recently acquired some
>>>Boesmans and Red Rainbows and bought three of each (one of the reds died
>>>quite quickly). The blues are very pretty fish - for those that don't
>>>know they have a horizontal line and the blue is below and silver on top
>>>- unlike the Boesmans that have a vertical line. I actually was very
>>>tempted to get a mature one the other day but was advised against it as
>>>my other Rainbows are still juvs.
>>>
>>>I actually very much sympathise with your stance on this. I have had a
>>>high casualty list with recently purchased fish over the last 3-4 weeks
>>>and think that this is unacceptable - 3 (at least)Neons, 3 Clown
>>>Loaches, 1 red rainbow and tonight 1 Rummy Nose - all purchased in the
>>>same place - but in the past I have had a high success rate from that
>>>source so I'm guessing something is going on that us customers are not
>>>aware of. All in all this equates to between £30-40 of fish and I don't
>>>have money to throw away like this...and that is before thinking of the
>>>poor fish...I hope you got a refund....the other shop I use (where it
>>>has to be said I have had bad experiences in the past) for now the fish
>>>are now doing well (apart from a small question mark over some tiny
>>>yoyos that we haven't seen today).
>>>
>>>I avoid "Pets at Home" but at least they do give a money back guarantee
>>>over fish that die within the first one/two weeks - I always put this
>>>down to the high level of losses and maintaining reputation (and I might
>>>be doing them a great disservice in this assumption). But equally I am
>>>starting to get very fed up with buying fish and having them die on me
>>>within days and if you mention anything getting asked "how long has the
>>>tank been running?" or "do you have ammonia or nitrites?"
>>>
>>>You hit a raw nerve here and like you I am just fed up with losing newly
>>>acquired fish....If they are from where I suspect and you get no joy I
>>>belive MA (brand) audit the franchises (in fact I was at one while it
>>>was happening) so maybe an approach to the parent company might be in line
>>>
>>>Gill
>
>Probably not fair to name names....it also has to be said that from my
>experiences these things seem to go in cycles. And I have been buying an
>awful lot of fish recently for various tanks.
>
>Yep, got the YoYos at Hare Hatch. The only problem with them being so
>tiny is that they can vanish in the tank. My son was so concerned this
>morning that I had to go on a YoYo hunt for him - found 3 of them. I
>have no reason to suppose that the 4th isn't in there somewhere as the
>tank is heavily planted with lots of hiding places. Henley have actually
>got some quite big ones at the moment which I'm tempted by. BTW did you
>spot that massive Clown Loach at HH - I was sorely tempted but having
>gone through all sorts of problems with my CLs I just want to leave the
>3 healthy ones that I now have rather than risk introducing any further
>problems.
>
>I've got Red Rainbows with my Boesmans and they are schooling quite well
>together so it would be worth checking into whether the Blues would fit
>in just as well. I asked when I was considering the big one at Henley
>the only negative factor was the maturity of the fish in question when
>mixing with the ones that I already have. The only problem that I have
>with my Male Red Rainbow is he seems to be confused by the Platys and
>chases them a little bit too much especially the female who has a
>similar colouration.
>
>BTW have you tried the little independant shop along the Oxford Road. It
>certainly used to have a very good reputation. I went in a few weeks ago
>and they were in a middle of a refurb but the tanks they had running
>looked clean and the fish looked healthy. Asked the staff a few
>questions and they seemed very knowledgeable. They just didn't have
>anything that I wanted at that point.
>
>Gill

[Gill Passman]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Yeah I have been to the one on the Oxford Road, but I decided to
> withhold judgement until they've finished their refurb. The tanks do
> seem clean enough and I haven't spotted any dead fish yet, but the
> shop itself looks a bit tatty right now. The guy there told me they
> are getting marine fish upstairs. They did have some elephant nose
> fish in there which are great, but I'm not sure they'd suit my tank.
>
> What other shops have you been to locally? I've tried the two MAs
> we've discussed plus the one in Bracknell which I thought was pretty
> good. I've also been to Pets At Home and the one at the garden centre
> in Shnfield. That seemed ok. There's some fairly interesting fish in
> the MA in Thatcham. I've become quite obsessive about visiting as many
> shops as I can. I have to visit my customers all over the country and
> I try and see the local shop in every town I got to! Know any others
> loaclly that I've missed?
>
> I think I'll go for those Red Rainbows - are you going to get the
> Rams?
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:05:51 +0100, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>
>>>Whcih shop have you had these problems at? I got the rainbows from MA
>>>at Hare Hatch. To be fair to them I spoke to the manager there
>>>yesterday and after asking me suitably searching questions, which made
>>>me feel a lot better about their level of knowledge, he offered me
>>>credit on both of the lost fish. I might get a couple of the red ones
>>>there. They are a little bigger, but very pretty indeed. Will they mix
>>>well enough with my blues?
>>>
>>>Gill, did you get those tiny Yoyo Loaches from Hare Hatch? I saw some
>>>there the other day and was thinking about these guys as an
>>>alternative to clowns.
>>>
>>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:26:24 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi
>>>>>
>>>>>I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
>>>>>these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
>>>>>twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
>>>>>that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
>>>>>reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
>>>>>upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
>>>>>passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
>>>>>them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
>>>>>the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
>>>>>again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
>>>>>boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
>>>>>accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
>>>>>that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
>>>>>advice?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks
>>>>
>>>>I don't know where you bought them from but I'm guessing one of our
>>>>local places...Rainbows are schooling fish and definitely need to be
>>>>kept in numbers greater than one or two. I recently acquired some
>>>>Boesmans and Red Rainbows and bought three of each (one of the reds died
>>>>quite quickly). The blues are very pretty fish - for those that don't
>>>>know they have a horizontal line and the blue is below and silver on top
>>>>- unlike the Boesmans that have a vertical line. I actually was very
>>>>tempted to get a mature one the other day but was advised against it as
>>>>my other Rainbows are still juvs.
>>>>
>>>>I actually very much sympathise with your stance on this. I have had a
>>>>high casualty list with recently purchased fish over the last 3-4 weeks
>>>>and think that this is unacceptable - 3 (at least)Neons, 3 Clown
>>>>Loaches, 1 red rainbow and tonight 1 Rummy Nose - all purchased in the
>>>>same place - but in the past I have had a high success rate from that
>>>>source so I'm guessing something is going on that us customers are not
>>>>aware of. All in all this equates to between £30-40 of fish and I don't
>>>>have money to throw away like this...and that is before thinking of the
>>>>poor fish...I hope you got a refund....the other shop I use (where it
>>>>has to be said I have had bad experiences in the past) for now the fish
>>>>are now doing well (apart from a small question mark over some tiny
>>>>yoyos that we haven't seen today).
>>>>
>>>>I avoid "Pets at Home" but at least they do give a money back guarantee
>>>>over fish that die within the first one/two weeks - I always put this
>>>>down to the high level of losses and maintaining reputation (and I might
>>>>be doing them a great disservice in this assumption). But equally I am
>>>>starting to get very fed up with buying fish and having them die on me
>>>>within days and if you mention anything getting asked "how long has the
>>>>tank been running?" or "do you have ammonia or nitrites?"
>>>>
>>>>You hit a raw nerve here and like you I am just fed up with losing newly
>>>>acquired fish....If they are from where I suspect and you get no joy I
>>>>belive MA (brand) audit the franchises (in fact I was at one while it
>>>>was happening) so maybe an approach to the parent company might be in line
>>>>
>>>>Gill
>>
>>Probably not fair to name names....it also has to be said that from my
>>experiences these things seem to go in cycles. And I have been buying an
>>awful lot of fish recently for various tanks.
>>
>>Yep, got the YoYos at Hare Hatch. The only problem with them being so
>>tiny is that they can vanish in the tank. My son was so concerned this
>>morning that I had to go on a YoYo hunt for him - found 3 of them. I
>>have no reason to suppose that the 4th isn't in there somewhere as the
>>tank is heavily planted with lots of hiding places. Henley have actually
>>got some quite big ones at the moment which I'm tempted by. BTW did you
>>spot that massive Clown Loach at HH - I was sorely tempted but having
>>gone through all sorts of problems with my CLs I just want to leave the
>>3 healthy ones that I now have rather than risk introducing any further
>>problems.
>>
>>I've got Red Rainbows with my Boesmans and they are schooling quite well
>>together so it would be worth checking into whether the Blues would fit
>>in just as well. I asked when I was considering the big one at Henley
>>the only negative factor was the maturity of the fish in question when
>>mixing with the ones that I already have. The only problem that I have
>>with my Male Red Rainbow is he seems to be confused by the Platys and
>>chases them a little bit too much especially the female who has a
>>similar colouration.
>>
>>BTW have you tried the little independant shop along the Oxford Road. It
>>certainly used to have a very good reputation. I went in a few weeks ago
>>and they were in a middle of a refurb but the tanks they had running
>>looked clean and the fish looked healthy. Asked the staff a few
>>questions and they seemed very knowledgeable. They just didn't have
>>anything that I wanted at that point.
>>
>>Gill

I wasn't to keen on Pets at Home but that might be because they didn't
have the fish I was looking for....HH MA seem to have a good
relationship with Bourne End but I haven't ventured there yet. If you
drive a little further up the A4 there is a garden centre on the right
(think it's called Ladds) that also stocks fish and doesn't appear to be
part of a chain - I've only dived in there for Guinea Pig and Rabbit
supplies so haven't had a good look at the tanks but think a trip might
happen later this week. Haven't been to Shinfield but I might take a
drive over there....where is it exactly?

The remaining two Red Rainbows are doing well so I'm putting down the
other female rainbow to being "one of those things" - in fact they are
doing so well that something is going down in the Java Moss tonight - lol

I'm certainly going over to Henley this week (thursday probably but
maybe tomorrow) to pick up a couple of the larger YoYos that they have -
the four small ones are being very shy so I think some bigger ones might
make a difference (no sign of any disease on the small ones). Now, the
question is can I resist the Rams - hmmmm - they've been there at least
a week - maybe I will do some research and test out the hardness in the
tank (it has driftwood which could well have softened it). I might also
experiment with softening it with peat or a CO2 unit (got one in the
cupboard).....they really are a very attractive fish and I am looking
for something to finish off the tank and I am still very fed up I failed
last time (bit of a challenge)....time will tell has to how strong I can
be...I tested the water this morning (it's a newish tank setup) and
ammonia and nitrites are at zero...Lost one Rummy Nose but the Dwarf
Gourami have already had a practice run at spawning....

Gill

[Fantastic Derek]

World of Water:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/shopfinder.php?store=47&thiscounty=Berkshire

How is does your java moss grow? I've got some lose that sort of
floats in a nursery tank I have.

How long did your Rams last before?


On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:05:26 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>> Yeah I have been to the one on the Oxford Road, but I decided to
>> withhold judgement until they've finished their refurb. The tanks do
>> seem clean enough and I haven't spotted any dead fish yet, but the
>> shop itself looks a bit tatty right now. The guy there told me they
>> are getting marine fish upstairs. They did have some elephant nose
>> fish in there which are great, but I'm not sure they'd suit my tank.
>>
>> What other shops have you been to locally? I've tried the two MAs
>> we've discussed plus the one in Bracknell which I thought was pretty
>> good. I've also been to Pets At Home and the one at the garden centre
>> in Shnfield. That seemed ok. There's some fairly interesting fish in
>> the MA in Thatcham. I've become quite obsessive about visiting as many
>> shops as I can. I have to visit my customers all over the country and
>> I try and see the local shop in every town I got to! Know any others
>> loaclly that I've missed?
>>
>> I think I'll go for those Red Rainbows - are you going to get the
>> Rams?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:05:51 +0100, Gill Passman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>>
>>>>Whcih shop have you had these problems at? I got the rainbows from MA
>>>>at Hare Hatch. To be fair to them I spoke to the manager there
>>>>yesterday and after asking me suitably searching questions, which made
>>>>me feel a lot better about their level of knowledge, he offered me
>>>>credit on both of the lost fish. I might get a couple of the red ones
>>>>there. They are a little bigger, but very pretty indeed. Will they mix
>>>>well enough with my blues?
>>>>
>>>>Gill, did you get those tiny Yoyo Loaches from Hare Hatch? I saw some
>>>>there the other day and was thinking about these guys as an
>>>>alternative to clowns.
>>>>
>>>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:26:24 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
>>>>>>these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
>>>>>>twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
>>>>>>that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
>>>>>>reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
>>>>>>upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
>>>>>>passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
>>>>>>them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
>>>>>>the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
>>>>>>again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
>>>>>>boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
>>>>>>accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
>>>>>>that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
>>>>>>advice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know where you bought them from but I'm guessing one of our
>>>>>local places...Rainbows are schooling fish and definitely need to be
>>>>>kept in numbers greater than one or two. I recently acquired some
>>>>>Boesmans and Red Rainbows and bought three of each (one of the reds died
>>>>>quite quickly). The blues are very pretty fish - for those that don't
>>>>>know they have a horizontal line and the blue is below and silver on top
>>>>>- unlike the Boesmans that have a vertical line. I actually was very
>>>>>tempted to get a mature one the other day but was advised against it as
>>>>>my other Rainbows are still juvs.
>>>>>
>>>>>I actually very much sympathise with your stance on this. I have had a
>>>>>high casualty list with recently purchased fish over the last 3-4 weeks
>>>>>and think that this is unacceptable - 3 (at least)Neons, 3 Clown
>>>>>Loaches, 1 red rainbow and tonight 1 Rummy Nose - all purchased in the
>>>>>same place - but in the past I have had a high success rate from that
>>>>>source so I'm guessing something is going on that us customers are not
>>>>>aware of. All in all this equates to between £30-40 of fish and I don't
>>>>>have money to throw away like this...and that is before thinking of the
>>>>>poor fish...I hope you got a refund....the other shop I use (where it
>>>>>has to be said I have had bad experiences in the past) for now the fish
>>>>>are now doing well (apart from a small question mark over some tiny
>>>>>yoyos that we haven't seen today).
>>>>>
>>>>>I avoid "Pets at Home" but at least they do give a money back guarantee
>>>>>over fish that die within the first one/two weeks - I always put this
>>>>>down to the high level of losses and maintaining reputation (and I might
>>>>>be doing them a great disservice in this assumption). But equally I am
>>>>>starting to get very fed up with buying fish and having them die on me
>>>>>within days and if you mention anything getting asked "how long has the
>>>>>tank been running?" or "do you have ammonia or nitrites?"
>>>>>
>>>>>You hit a raw nerve here and like you I am just fed up with losing newly
>>>>>acquired fish....If they are from where I suspect and you get no joy I
>>>>>belive MA (brand) audit the franchises (in fact I was at one while it
>>>>>was happening) so maybe an approach to the parent company might be in line
>>>>>
>>>>>Gill
>>>
>>>Probably not fair to name names....it also has to be said that from my
>>>experiences these things seem to go in cycles. And I have been buying an
>>>awful lot of fish recently for various tanks.
>>>
>>>Yep, got the YoYos at Hare Hatch. The only problem with them being so
>>>tiny is that they can vanish in the tank. My son was so concerned this
>>>morning that I had to go on a YoYo hunt for him - found 3 of them. I
>>>have no reason to suppose that the 4th isn't in there somewhere as the
>>>tank is heavily planted with lots of hiding places. Henley have actually
>>>got some quite big ones at the moment which I'm tempted by. BTW did you
>>>spot that massive Clown Loach at HH - I was sorely tempted but having
>>>gone through all sorts of problems with my CLs I just want to leave the
>>>3 healthy ones that I now have rather than risk introducing any further
>>>problems.
>>>
>>>I've got Red Rainbows with my Boesmans and they are schooling quite well
>>>together so it would be worth checking into whether the Blues would fit
>>>in just as well. I asked when I was considering the big one at Henley
>>>the only negative factor was the maturity of the fish in question when
>>>mixing with the ones that I already have. The only problem that I have
>>>with my Male Red Rainbow is he seems to be confused by the Platys and
>>>chases them a little bit too much especially the female who has a
>>>similar colouration.
>>>
>>>BTW have you tried the little independant shop along the Oxford Road. It
>>>certainly used to have a very good reputation. I went in a few weeks ago
>>>and they were in a middle of a refurb but the tanks they had running
>>>looked clean and the fish looked healthy. Asked the staff a few
>>>questions and they seemed very knowledgeable. They just didn't have
>>>anything that I wanted at that point.
>>>
>>>Gill
>
>I wasn't to keen on Pets at Home but that might be because they didn't
>have the fish I was looking for....HH MA seem to have a good
>relationship with Bourne End but I haven't ventured there yet. If you
>drive a little further up the A4 there is a garden centre on the right
>(think it's called Ladds) that also stocks fish and doesn't appear to be
>part of a chain - I've only dived in there for Guinea Pig and Rabbit
>supplies so haven't had a good look at the tanks but think a trip might
>happen later this week. Haven't been to Shinfield but I might take a
>drive over there....where is it exactly?
>
>The remaining two Red Rainbows are doing well so I'm putting down the
>other female rainbow to being "one of those things" - in fact they are
>doing so well that something is going down in the Java Moss tonight - lol
>
>I'm certainly going over to Henley this week (thursday probably but
>maybe tomorrow) to pick up a couple of the larger YoYos that they have -
>the four small ones are being very shy so I think some bigger ones might
>make a difference (no sign of any disease on the small ones). Now, the
>question is can I resist the Rams - hmmmm - they've been there at least
>a week - maybe I will do some research and test out the hardness in the
>tank (it has driftwood which could well have softened it). I might also
>experiment with softening it with peat or a CO2 unit (got one in the
>cupboard).....they really are a very attractive fish and I am looking
>for something to finish off the tank and I am still very fed up I failed
>last time (bit of a challenge)....time will tell has to how strong I can
>be...I tested the water this morning (it's a newish tank setup) and
>ammonia and nitrites are at zero...Lost one Rummy Nose but the Dwarf
>Gourami have already had a practice run at spawning....
>
>Gill

[Steve]

Gill Passman wrote:

>
> The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
> the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
> peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
> believe there is such a brand of cichlid......

Angelfish?

[Gill Passman]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> World of Water:
> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/shopfinder.php?store=47&thiscounty=Berkshire
>
> How is does your java moss grow? I've got some lose that sort of
> floats in a nursery tank I have.
>
> How long did your Rams last before?
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:05:26 +0100, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>
>>>Yeah I have been to the one on the Oxford Road, but I decided to
>>>withhold judgement until they've finished their refurb. The tanks do
>>>seem clean enough and I haven't spotted any dead fish yet, but the
>>>shop itself looks a bit tatty right now. The guy there told me they
>>>are getting marine fish upstairs. They did have some elephant nose
>>>fish in there which are great, but I'm not sure they'd suit my tank.
>>>
>>>What other shops have you been to locally? I've tried the two MAs
>>>we've discussed plus the one in Bracknell which I thought was pretty
>>>good. I've also been to Pets At Home and the one at the garden centre
>>>in Shnfield. That seemed ok. There's some fairly interesting fish in
>>>the MA in Thatcham. I've become quite obsessive about visiting as many
>>>shops as I can. I have to visit my customers all over the country and
>>>I try and see the local shop in every town I got to! Know any others
>>>loaclly that I've missed?
>>>
>>>I think I'll go for those Red Rainbows - are you going to get the
>>>Rams?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:05:51 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Whcih shop have you had these problems at? I got the rainbows from MA
>>>>>at Hare Hatch. To be fair to them I spoke to the manager there
>>>>>yesterday and after asking me suitably searching questions, which made
>>>>>me feel a lot better about their level of knowledge, he offered me
>>>>>credit on both of the lost fish. I might get a couple of the red ones
>>>>>there. They are a little bigger, but very pretty indeed. Will they mix
>>>>>well enough with my blues?
>>>>>
>>>>>Gill, did you get those tiny Yoyo Loaches from Hare Hatch? I saw some
>>>>>there the other day and was thinking about these guys as an
>>>>>alternative to clowns.
>>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:26:24 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I recently bought two Blue Rainbow fish from a shop. They told me that
>>>>>>>these were hardy fish and that they only needed to be kept in ones or
>>>>>>>twos. I got them home and then read contradictory testimony on the web
>>>>>>>that suggested they prefer to be kept in threes or more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Anyway, within a day or two of buying them one died. There was no
>>>>>>>reason to suggest that it might prior to the death, but whiel I was
>>>>>>>upset, I did have a sick gourami at the time that also eventually
>>>>>>>passed on. Anyway, since then I have upgraded to a bigger tank and let
>>>>>>>them settle in. Today I bought two more from the same place to keep
>>>>>>>the original one company and within a few hours one of them has died
>>>>>>>again! I'm pretty angry. The guy that fished them out was pretty
>>>>>>>boisterous with them. grabbing one of them with his hand when he
>>>>>>>accidently got to many in his net. There's nothing wrong with my water
>>>>>>>that I can see. I have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates. Has anyone got any
>>>>>>>advice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't know where you bought them from but I'm guessing one of our
>>>>>>local places...Rainbows are schooling fish and definitely need to be
>>>>>>kept in numbers greater than one or two. I recently acquired some
>>>>>>Boesmans and Red Rainbows and bought three of each (one of the reds died
>>>>>>quite quickly). The blues are very pretty fish - for those that don't
>>>>>>know they have a horizontal line and the blue is below and silver on top
>>>>>>- unlike the Boesmans that have a vertical line. I actually was very
>>>>>>tempted to get a mature one the other day but was advised against it as
>>>>>>my other Rainbows are still juvs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I actually very much sympathise with your stance on this. I have had a
>>>>>>high casualty list with recently purchased fish over the last 3-4 weeks
>>>>>>and think that this is unacceptable - 3 (at least)Neons, 3 Clown
>>>>>>Loaches, 1 red rainbow and tonight 1 Rummy Nose - all purchased in the
>>>>>>same place - but in the past I have had a high success rate from that
>>>>>>source so I'm guessing something is going on that us customers are not
>>>>>>aware of. All in all this equates to between £30-40 of fish and I don't
>>>>>>have money to throw away like this...and that is before thinking of the
>>>>>>poor fish...I hope you got a refund....the other shop I use (where it
>>>>>>has to be said I have had bad experiences in the past) for now the fish
>>>>>>are now doing well (apart from a small question mark over some tiny
>>>>>>yoyos that we haven't seen today).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I avoid "Pets at Home" but at least they do give a money back guarantee
>>>>>>over fish that die within the first one/two weeks - I always put this
>>>>>>down to the high level of losses and maintaining reputation (and I might
>>>>>>be doing them a great disservice in this assumption). But equally I am
>>>>>>starting to get very fed up with buying fish and having them die on me
>>>>>>within days and if you mention anything getting asked "how long has the
>>>>>>tank been running?" or "do you have ammonia or nitrites?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You hit a raw nerve here and like you I am just fed up with losing newly
>>>>>>acquired fish....If they are from where I suspect and you get no joy I
>>>>>>belive MA (brand) audit the franchises (in fact I was at one while it
>>>>>>was happening) so maybe an approach to the parent company might be in line
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gill
>>>>
>>>>Probably not fair to name names....it also has to be said that from my
>>>>experiences these things seem to go in cycles. And I have been buying an
>>>>awful lot of fish recently for various tanks.
>>>>
>>>>Yep, got the YoYos at Hare Hatch. The only problem with them being so
>>>>tiny is that they can vanish in the tank. My son was so concerned this
>>>>morning that I had to go on a YoYo hunt for him - found 3 of them. I
>>>>have no reason to suppose that the 4th isn't in there somewhere as the
>>>>tank is heavily planted with lots of hiding places. Henley have actually
>>>>got some quite big ones at the moment which I'm tempted by. BTW did you
>>>>spot that massive Clown Loach at HH - I was sorely tempted but having
>>>>gone through all sorts of problems with my CLs I just want to leave the
>>>>3 healthy ones that I now have rather than risk introducing any further
>>>>problems.
>>>>
>>>>I've got Red Rainbows with my Boesmans and they are schooling quite well
>>>>together so it would be worth checking into whether the Blues would fit
>>>>in just as well. I asked when I was considering the big one at Henley
>>>>the only negative factor was the maturity of the fish in question when
>>>>mixing with the ones that I already have. The only problem that I have
>>>>with my Male Red Rainbow is he seems to be confused by the Platys and
>>>>chases them a little bit too much especially the female who has a
>>>>similar colouration.
>>>>
>>>>BTW have you tried the little independant shop along the Oxford Road. It
>>>>certainly used to have a very good reputation. I went in a few weeks ago
>>>>and they were in a middle of a refurb but the tanks they had running
>>>>looked clean and the fish looked healthy. Asked the staff a few
>>>>questions and they seemed very knowledgeable. They just didn't have
>>>>anything that I wanted at that point.
>>>>
>>>>Gill
>>
>>I wasn't to keen on Pets at Home but that might be because they didn't
>>have the fish I was looking for....HH MA seem to have a good
>>relationship with Bourne End but I haven't ventured there yet. If you
>>drive a little further up the A4 there is a garden centre on the right
>>(think it's called Ladds) that also stocks fish and doesn't appear to be
>>part of a chain - I've only dived in there for Guinea Pig and Rabbit
>>supplies so haven't had a good look at the tanks but think a trip might
>>happen later this week. Haven't been to Shinfield but I might take a
>>drive over there....where is it exactly?
>>
>>The remaining two Red Rainbows are doing well so I'm putting down the
>>other female rainbow to being "one of those things" - in fact they are
>>doing so well that something is going down in the Java Moss tonight - lol
>>
>>I'm certainly going over to Henley this week (thursday probably but
>>maybe tomorrow) to pick up a couple of the larger YoYos that they have -
>>the four small ones are being very shy so I think some bigger ones might
>>make a difference (no sign of any disease on the small ones). Now, the
>>question is can I resist the Rams - hmmmm - they've been there at least
>>a week - maybe I will do some research and test out the hardness in the
>>tank (it has driftwood which could well have softened it). I might also
>>experiment with softening it with peat or a CO2 unit (got one in the
>>cupboard).....they really are a very attractive fish and I am looking
>>for something to finish off the tank and I am still very fed up I failed
>>last time (bit of a challenge)....time will tell has to how strong I can
>>be...I tested the water this morning (it's a newish tank setup) and
>>ammonia and nitrites are at zero...Lost one Rummy Nose but the Dwarf
>>Gourami have already had a practice run at spawning....
>>
>>Gill
I anchor my Java moss under driftwood...it's doing quite well

Initially I bought 3 Rams - two died within around 30 mins of going in
the tank - the LFS claimed it was water quality but now I have more
experience I don't believe it - I think the tank was zero on ammonia but
the driftwood had coloured the water - plus I now know that an ammonia
test takes seconds and not the 10 mins claimed (he no longer works
there)....I moved the remaining Ram into the last incarnation of the
15gall and he did very well for around 5 months....then my son wanted a
betta...by this time I had another ram in the community tank - again for
around 4 months and doing well....the Betta and the ram were a match
made in hell and the betta was losing...my son wanted the betta so I
moved the Ram into the community tank - I believe it was Ram in-fighting
- both died within a couple of weeks in good water quality....

The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
believe there is such a brand of cichlid......

[lgb]

In article >,
says...
> The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
> the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
> peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
> believe there is such a brand of cichlid......
>
Neolamprologus brichardi or N. pulcher. Supposedly they're not only
peaceful, they shoal and one generation helps take care of the next.

I don't have any yet, but they're on my list. Hopefully the pulcher
(Daffodil) because I like their looks better, but the brichardi are
easier to find.

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[Fantastic Derek]

Which reminds me, how do Angels and Rams get on together?

BTW the other rainbow I had died leaving me with the original healthy
one. That's 3 out of the 4 I bought all gone, all within 3-4 days of
being bought. In fact apart from a Gourami they're the only fish I've
lost. Again no ammonia or nitrites. I'm nonplussed abouth these
rainbows, but the guy at the shop did say he'd replace the first 2 so
I assume he'll give me credit for this one. I think I'll get the red
ones though.

My nitrates seem to be high, at least 40ppm. Is there any way of
lowering nitrates aside from water changes? I'm pretty sure that
there's a fair amount of nitrates in my tap water anyway.


On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:27 -0400, Steve > wrote:

>Gill Passman wrote:
>
>>
>> The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
>> the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
>> peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
>> believe there is such a brand of cichlid......
>
>Angelfish?

[Gill Passman]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Which reminds me, how do Angels and Rams get on together?
>
> BTW the other rainbow I had died leaving me with the original healthy
> one. That's 3 out of the 4 I bought all gone, all within 3-4 days of
> being bought. In fact apart from a Gourami they're the only fish I've
> lost. Again no ammonia or nitrites. I'm nonplussed abouth these
> rainbows, but the guy at the shop did say he'd replace the first 2 so
> I assume he'll give me credit for this one. I think I'll get the red
> ones though.
>
> My nitrates seem to be high, at least 40ppm. Is there any way of
> lowering nitrates aside from water changes? I'm pretty sure that
> there's a fair amount of nitrates in my tap water anyway.
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:27 -0400, Steve > wrote:
>
>
>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
>>>the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
>>>peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
>>>believe there is such a brand of cichlid......
>>
>>Angelfish?

Sorry about your rainbows :-(. I really hate it when that happens. It
really does seem to be pot luck - sometimes I can buy for ages with no
problems and then lose all of the newbies in quick succession. I then
stop buying from the LFS in question. Buy successfully from another and
then run into bad luck there and switch back to the original....

The reds are nice although my male does get confused over the Platys and
chases them.

The only other way that I can think of other than water changes - is
more plants....


Gill

BTW couldn't resist the Dutch Rams - got one male and two females

[Fantastic Derek]

Excellent! The Rams are my wife's favourite and I can see why. They
are great to watch and beautiful to boot.

I'm defintiely gonna get more plants. Can anyone reccomend and good,
fast groing plants that like fairly hard water and will beat off the
algae a bit? I bought a couple more today - I was going to buy more,
but I was in a shop in London and the cost of the plants is
outrageous. Nice fish though.


On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:22:15 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>> Which reminds me, how do Angels and Rams get on together?
>>
>> BTW the other rainbow I had died leaving me with the original healthy
>> one. That's 3 out of the 4 I bought all gone, all within 3-4 days of
>> being bought. In fact apart from a Gourami they're the only fish I've
>> lost. Again no ammonia or nitrites. I'm nonplussed abouth these
>> rainbows, but the guy at the shop did say he'd replace the first 2 so
>> I assume he'll give me credit for this one. I think I'll get the red
>> ones though.
>>
>> My nitrates seem to be high, at least 40ppm. Is there any way of
>> lowering nitrates aside from water changes? I'm pretty sure that
>> there's a fair amount of nitrates in my tap water anyway.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:27 -0400, Steve > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
>>>>the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
>>>>peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
>>>>believe there is such a brand of cichlid......
>>>
>>>Angelfish?
>
>Sorry about your rainbows :-(. I really hate it when that happens. It
>really does seem to be pot luck - sometimes I can buy for ages with no
>problems and then lose all of the newbies in quick succession. I then
>stop buying from the LFS in question. Buy successfully from another and
>then run into bad luck there and switch back to the original....
>
>The reds are nice although my male does get confused over the Platys and
>chases them.
>
>The only other way that I can think of other than water changes - is
>more plants....
>
>
>Gill
>
>BTW couldn't resist the Dutch Rams - got one male and two females

[Gill Passman]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Excellent! The Rams are my wife's favourite and I can see why. They
> are great to watch and beautiful to boot.
>
> I'm defintiely gonna get more plants. Can anyone reccomend and good,
> fast groing plants that like fairly hard water and will beat off the
> algae a bit? I bought a couple more today - I was going to buy more,
> but I was in a shop in London and the cost of the plants is
> outrageous. Nice fish though.
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:22:15 +0100, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>
>>>Which reminds me, how do Angels and Rams get on together?
>>>
>>>BTW the other rainbow I had died leaving me with the original healthy
>>>one. That's 3 out of the 4 I bought all gone, all within 3-4 days of
>>>being bought. In fact apart from a Gourami they're the only fish I've
>>>lost. Again no ammonia or nitrites. I'm nonplussed abouth these
>>>rainbows, but the guy at the shop did say he'd replace the first 2 so
>>>I assume he'll give me credit for this one. I think I'll get the red
>>>ones though.
>>>
>>> My nitrates seem to be high, at least 40ppm. Is there any way of
>>>lowering nitrates aside from water changes? I'm pretty sure that
>>>there's a fair amount of nitrates in my tap water anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:27 -0400, Steve > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
>>>>>the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
>>>>>peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
>>>>>believe there is such a brand of cichlid......
>>>>
>>>>Angelfish?
>>
>>Sorry about your rainbows :-(. I really hate it when that happens. It
>>really does seem to be pot luck - sometimes I can buy for ages with no
>>problems and then lose all of the newbies in quick succession. I then
>>stop buying from the LFS in question. Buy successfully from another and
>>then run into bad luck there and switch back to the original....
>>
>>The reds are nice although my male does get confused over the Platys and
>>chases them.
>>
>>The only other way that I can think of other than water changes - is
>>more plants....
>>
>>
>>Gill
>>
>>BTW couldn't resist the Dutch Rams - got one male and two females


Hey, I could give you some cuttings....going to do a cull of the
Conservatory Tank plants tomorrow and will be mainly throwing out -
getting difficult to feed the fish because of the growth - I've already
taken some of it over to the other tanks...Henley had some good sword
plants this week - also you can occassionally get some Java moss there -
mind you I had to ask if they ever had it before being given a bag of
the stuff....

Gill

[Fantastic Derek]

Cool! Thanks very much!

How many tanks have you got then, Gill?


On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:04:42 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>> Excellent! The Rams are my wife's favourite and I can see why. They
>> are great to watch and beautiful to boot.
>>
>> I'm defintiely gonna get more plants. Can anyone reccomend and good,
>> fast groing plants that like fairly hard water and will beat off the
>> algae a bit? I bought a couple more today - I was going to buy more,
>> but I was in a shop in London and the cost of the plants is
>> outrageous. Nice fish though.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:22:15 +0100, Gill Passman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>>
>>>>Which reminds me, how do Angels and Rams get on together?
>>>>
>>>>BTW the other rainbow I had died leaving me with the original healthy
>>>>one. That's 3 out of the 4 I bought all gone, all within 3-4 days of
>>>>being bought. In fact apart from a Gourami they're the only fish I've
>>>>lost. Again no ammonia or nitrites. I'm nonplussed abouth these
>>>>rainbows, but the guy at the shop did say he'd replace the first 2 so
>>>>I assume he'll give me credit for this one. I think I'll get the red
>>>>ones though.
>>>>
>>>> My nitrates seem to be high, at least 40ppm. Is there any way of
>>>>lowering nitrates aside from water changes? I'm pretty sure that
>>>>there's a fair amount of nitrates in my tap water anyway.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:27 -0400, Steve > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
>>>>>>the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
>>>>>>peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
>>>>>>believe there is such a brand of cichlid......
>>>>>
>>>>>Angelfish?
>>>
>>>Sorry about your rainbows :-(. I really hate it when that happens. It
>>>really does seem to be pot luck - sometimes I can buy for ages with no
>>>problems and then lose all of the newbies in quick succession. I then
>>>stop buying from the LFS in question. Buy successfully from another and
>>>then run into bad luck there and switch back to the original....
>>>
>>>The reds are nice although my male does get confused over the Platys and
>>>chases them.
>>>
>>>The only other way that I can think of other than water changes - is
>>>more plants....
>>>
>>>
>>>Gill
>>>
>>>BTW couldn't resist the Dutch Rams - got one male and two females
>
>
>Hey, I could give you some cuttings....going to do a cull of the
>Conservatory Tank plants tomorrow and will be mainly throwing out -
>getting difficult to feed the fish because of the growth - I've already
>taken some of it over to the other tanks...Henley had some good sword
>plants this week - also you can occassionally get some Java moss there -
>mind you I had to ask if they ever had it before being given a bag of
>the stuff....
>
>Gill

[lgb]

In article >,
says...
> I'm defintiely gonna get more plants. Can anyone reccomend and good,
> fast groing plants that like fairly hard water and will beat off the
> algae a bit?
>

I came up with a list I wanted for my next tank. None need high
lighting, 2 watts per gallon supposedly will do for all of them and most
will take less. All will supposedly take hard alkaline water.

Of my list, the fast growing ones are:

Hygrophilia corymbosa "Siamensis"
Echinodorus "Ozelot"
Bacopa australis
Ludwiga repens "Rubin"
Ceratophyllum demersum

Anothe sword which grows more slowly but I think is gorgeous is
Echinodorus parviflorus "Tropica". A 6"-8" wide, 4"-6" tall rosette of
dark green dimpled leaves.

Good luck - you may find yourself liking the aquatic gardening better
than the fish :-).

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[Gill Passman]

Fantastic Derek wrote:
> Cool! Thanks very much!
>
> How many tanks have you got then, Gill?
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:04:42 +0100, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>
>>>Excellent! The Rams are my wife's favourite and I can see why. They
>>>are great to watch and beautiful to boot.
>>>
>>>I'm defintiely gonna get more plants. Can anyone reccomend and good,
>>>fast groing plants that like fairly hard water and will beat off the
>>>algae a bit? I bought a couple more today - I was going to buy more,
>>>but I was in a shop in London and the cost of the plants is
>>>outrageous. Nice fish though.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:22:15 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Fantastic Derek wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Which reminds me, how do Angels and Rams get on together?
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW the other rainbow I had died leaving me with the original healthy
>>>>>one. That's 3 out of the 4 I bought all gone, all within 3-4 days of
>>>>>being bought. In fact apart from a Gourami they're the only fish I've
>>>>>lost. Again no ammonia or nitrites. I'm nonplussed abouth these
>>>>>rainbows, but the guy at the shop did say he'd replace the first 2 so
>>>>>I assume he'll give me credit for this one. I think I'll get the red
>>>>>ones though.
>>>>>
>>>>>My nitrates seem to be high, at least 40ppm. Is there any way of
>>>>>lowering nitrates aside from water changes? I'm pretty sure that
>>>>>there's a fair amount of nitrates in my tap water anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:27 -0400, Steve > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The above is why I hesitate to try again....but after my experience with
>>>>>>>the Mbunas murdering eachother in the tank, Rams are incredibly
>>>>>>>peaceful cichlids - if such a thing exists - LOL histerically - I don't
>>>>>>>believe there is such a brand of cichlid......
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Angelfish?
>>>>
>>>>Sorry about your rainbows :-(. I really hate it when that happens. It
>>>>really does seem to be pot luck - sometimes I can buy for ages with no
>>>>problems and then lose all of the newbies in quick succession. I then
>>>>stop buying from the LFS in question. Buy successfully from another and
>>>>then run into bad luck there and switch back to the original....
>>>>
>>>>The reds are nice although my male does get confused over the Platys and
>>>>chases them.
>>>>
>>>>The only other way that I can think of other than water changes - is
>>>>more plants....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Gill
>>>>
>>>>BTW couldn't resist the Dutch Rams - got one male and two females
>>
>>
>>Hey, I could give you some cuttings....going to do a cull of the
>>Conservatory Tank plants tomorrow and will be mainly throwing out -
>>getting difficult to feed the fish because of the growth - I've already
>>taken some of it over to the other tanks...Henley had some good sword
>>plants this week - also you can occassionally get some Java moss there -
>>mind you I had to ask if they ever had it before being given a bag of
>>the stuff....
>>
>>Gill

6 in total although one belongs to my son....

[Fantastic Derek]

Thanks very much! I was thinking of getting some plants of the web.
Tehre are few people selling them on ebay. Any comments? Is this wise
or can you reccomend any sites?


On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:34:23 -0700, lgb > wrote:

>In article >,
>says...
>> I'm defintiely gonna get more plants. Can anyone reccomend and good,
>> fast groing plants that like fairly hard water and will beat off the
>> algae a bit?
>>
>
>I came up with a list I wanted for my next tank. None need high
>lighting, 2 watts per gallon supposedly will do for all of them and most
>will take less. All will supposedly take hard alkaline water.
>
>Of my list, the fast growing ones are:
>
>Hygrophilia corymbosa "Siamensis"
>Echinodorus "Ozelot"
>Bacopa australis
>Ludwiga repens "Rubin"
>Ceratophyllum demersum
>
>Anothe sword which grows more slowly but I think is gorgeous is
>Echinodorus parviflorus "Tropica". A 6"-8" wide, 4"-6" tall rosette of
>dark green dimpled leaves.
>
>Good luck - you may find yourself liking the aquatic gardening better
>than the fish :-).

[Daniel Morrow]

Mid posted.


"Fantastic Derek" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks very much! I was thinking of getting some plants of the web.
> Tehre are few people selling them on ebay. Any comments? Is this wise
> or can you reccomend any sites?

I would recommend http://www.thatpetplace.com for plants except for the fact
that they have much more expensive shipping than ebay. I might very well buy
some cheap egeria densa off of ebay sometime. Ebay is pretty cool for plants
and are cheaper too.


>
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:34:23 -0700, lgb > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> >says...
> >> I'm defintiely gonna get more plants. Can anyone reccomend and good,
> >> fast groing plants that like fairly hard water and will beat off the
> >> algae a bit?
> >>
> >
> >I came up with a list I wanted for my next tank. None need high
> >lighting, 2 watts per gallon supposedly will do for all of them and most
> >will take less. All will supposedly take hard alkaline water.
> >
> >Of my list, the fast growing ones are:
> >
> >Hygrophilia corymbosa "Siamensis"
> >Echinodorus "Ozelot"
> >Bacopa australis
> >Ludwiga repens "Rubin"
> >Ceratophyllum demersum
> >
> >Anothe sword which grows more slowly but I think is gorgeous is
> >Echinodorus parviflorus "Tropica". A 6"-8" wide, 4"-6" tall rosette of
> >dark green dimpled leaves.
> >
> >Good luck - you may find yourself liking the aquatic gardening better
> >than the fish :-).

[lgb]

In article >,
says...
> Thanks very much! I was thinking of getting some plants of the web.
> Tehre are few people selling them on ebay. Any comments? Is this wise
> or can you reccomend any sites?
>
>
http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/aboutus.html?id=5fLCAcBr

Note the BBB membership. I've ordered from them and will again.

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever