Bettas: Male and Females

[Suzie-Q]

I have a male betta in a 2.5 gallon tank. I've had him a couple
of months. I have three female bettas in a separate 2.5 gallon
tank. I've had them for about a week. I'm going to transfer
all four into a 10 gallon tank. My question is who goes first -
the male or the females? Or all at the same time.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

(It's like an addiction. You just keep wanting more and more....)
--
8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail)
~~~~~~
"I reserve the absolute right to be smarter
today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson

http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/
http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/
http://www.intergnat.com/pussygames/

[Mike]

Do you have intentions of breeding the bettas? If so you should do some
research before putting any bettas together, there are specific periods you
place male and female bettas together to breed... If your not breeding them
the male will probably most likely kill the females or at least one before
you remove them after the killing... I have not ever bred bettas before but
i did wanna try it so i did some research....

Thanks
Mike


"Suzie-Q" > wrote in message
...
>I have a male betta in a 2.5 gallon tank. I've had him a couple
> of months. I have three female bettas in a separate 2.5 gallon
> tank. I've had them for about a week. I'm going to transfer
> all four into a 10 gallon tank. My question is who goes first -
> the male or the females? Or all at the same time.
>
> Any advice will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> (It's like an addiction. You just keep wanting more and more....)
> --
> 8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail)
> ~~~~~~
> "I reserve the absolute right to be smarter
> today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson
>
> http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/
> http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/
> http://www.intergnat.com/pussygames/

[Beano]

I really think a 10gal tank is pushing it to have that many bettas in
it. I've had 5 females and a male in my 20gal, heavily planted, and
there was still a substantial amount of bickering and fin nipping going
on amongst them. I had to take the male out as he got attacked twice!

In the end my bettas were stressing me out way to much! It's a
terrible feeling not knowing whether your fish will be alive when you
get home! I've since traded them all in for a baby oscar, for which I
will soon need a larger tank...

[Tynk]

Suzie-Q Sep 11, 2:21 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
From: Suzie-Q > - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:21:12 GMT
Local: Sun, Sep 11 2005 2:21 pm
Subject: Bettas: Male and Females
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I have a male betta in a 2.5 gallon tank. I've had him a couple
of months. I have three female bettas in a separate 2.5 gallon
tank. I've had them for about a week. I'm going to transfer
all four into a 10 gallon tank. My question is who goes first -
the male or the females? Or all at the same time.>>>

A 10g isn't large enough to house 3 females and a male Betta together.
May I suggest giving the 10g to the females and leaving the male in the
2 1/2g, simply because of the small size of the 10g.
If you had a 29g or larger then I would advise you to try it.
One thing you must know is that many people don't really understand
Bettas or know why they act as they do.
"Mike" above mentioned that unless spawning them the male would
probably kill the females. There's an ity bity part of that that's
true, however the much needed rest of the statement is missing.
Bettas have individual personalities. Just because one male was so
overly aggressive and killed females doesn't mean they all are.
Frankly, 9 out of 10 times they're fine together if key issues are met.
Tank is large enough. Enough plants or hidey places to get away from
each other and for being generally cozy, and the biggest.....that their
personalities allow it.
Sex plays no part in aggression here. Females can be just as nasty as
any male can be.
In nearly 30 years of keeping Bettas I have had more females that were
so overly aggressive that they couldn't even be housed with any other
fish.
Heck, even in the spawning tanks I've had more females rip my males to
shreds than vice versa.
The reason for all this bickering between Bettas is because they have a
hierarchy (pecking order).
When introduced they all have to find their places in the group. At
first there will be posturing, flashing of fins, nipping and chasing.
This is all normal when figuring out the hierarchy. If, however, it
gets nasty, such as chunks of flesh being bitten or the fish is overly
stressed, then either of them should be removed to temporary
confinement.
Going into an already established hierarchy will also create a need for
figuring out their places, so be aware when adding new females to a
group, there will be bickering and jockeying for the alpha spot.
Now many times you hear folks say you can't house a male in with
females, well you can. However, several things have to mesh and you
need to know what to expect before doing so.
If you don't things right, it can be deadly.

[Beano]

I might add that with my tank, I had lots and lots of hiding places,
but the females would never hide!!! They just kept getting chased!
What's more, the females by themselves in numbers of 4-6 are ok, but
add a male and watch the change in female personality! WOW... my
females got substantially more aggressive toward each other whenever
the male was put in the tank with them.

[Papa Red]

For over a week now, I have had three females and one male Betta all
sharing the same clear plastic storage container, one that is equipped
with a Dolphin H-200 powerfilter, and measures 25 inches long, by
15=B9/=B2 inches wide, by 5=B9/=B2 deep [water level], with no troubles,
squabbles or problems with any of those Bettas. The container has two
different artificial 'plants'. One is a long flowering vine that is
about a foot or so in length, with daisy-like lavender flowers and green
leaves, and lays in loose loops at the front end of the tank. The other
is what reminds me of astroturf designed for aquariums for fry to hide
in; a dense, one foot square, two and a half inches thick mass of greens
and white-yellows, that is comprised of very many thin-leaved artificial
plants.
The male's area is in the front of the container, and the three
females have staked out areas in the back end, and on either sides of
the container, where they all stay, except for when I feed them their
food [Hikari Betta Bio-Gold]. The male has made one bubblenest so far,
three days ago, but it doesn't seem like anything came of it. But this
morning, I got up earlier than usual [0451hrs], and when I went to feed
them, it looked like I just may have interrupted mating, because the
male and a female were in what I have been told is a mating position.
If and when something does come of a mating, I can only assume that I
should remove all of the females, and place them together in one of my
community tanks with other fish whom are compatible.
Has anybody else ever kept Bettas this way? Pax Vobiscum,...~Dean.

[Tynk]

Beano Sep 13, 2:25 am show options

Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
From: "Beano" > - Find messages by this
author
Date: 13 Sep 2005 00:25:15 -0700
Local: Tues, Sep 13 2005 2:25 am
Subject: Re: Bettas: Male and Females
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I might add that with my tank, I had lots and lots of hiding places,
but the females would never hide!!! They just kept getting chased!
What's more, the females by themselves in numbers of 4-6 are ok, but
add a male and watch the change in female personality! WOW... my
females got substantially more aggressive toward each other whenever
the male was put in the tank with them.

Oh yeah! You bet they do.
If a bunch of female aren't used to having a male in the tank with them
24/7, when one is introduced they get all crazy with spawning dreams. =
) This usually will settle in anywhere from a day to a week.
I hadn't been able to house a male in my 75g for such a long time, as
the alpha female was a terror when it came to males. She was quite
pleseant with other females, but shredded any male within minutes. She
was an absolute beast, however, she was one of the most gorgeous
extended reds you've ever seen. That's the only reason why I kept her.
After her death (old age) I introduced a male right away, as I knew all
the rest of the females weren't as aggressive with males.
Everything's peachy, everyone basically ignores each other now.
However, at first...2 out of the 8 females really took a liking to him
right away and they both postured constantly at one another in order to
figure out who would get the rights to him, hehe.
Well...he had his eye on another extended red female, just not as
bright as the other, but still very pretty. They're so sweet together.
However, because this is a community type set up, no spawning behaviors
at all, which is exactly what I want.
However, I may try this pair at spawning later on. I've had 3 spawns
already this year and each was a no go. 1..male at the eggs, 2...female
at the eggs while the male just watched her, 3...not fertilized. I
usually don't spawn Bettas this late in the year, as I like to utilize
the garage for growing tanks during the summer. However, now it would
be too late to do so. If I could convince hubby that anywhere from 1to
hundreds of single males around the house and my 20gH's for grow out
tanks set up ...besides all the normal tanks around the house, would be
a good idea, then sure I'll be spawning those Bettas. However, it's not
likely that he'll go for it.

[Tynk]

Papa Red

three days ago, but it doesn't seem like anything came of it. But this
morning, I got up earlier than usual [0451hrs], and when I went to feed

them, it looked like I just may have interrupted mating, because the
male and a female were in what I have been told is a mating position.
If and when something does come of a mating, I can only assume that I
should remove all of the females, and place them together in one of my
community tanks with other fish whom are compatible. >>

Just because I don't already know, I must ask.
Are you purposely trying to spawn them?
If so do you know what's involved?

[Papa Red]

I have done some reading up on the subject of breeding the Betta
splendens species. And what I intend to do is to take it as the chinese
say, "E-poo-E-poo-Li", or one step at a time. I am on Social Security
Disability, and I don't go out all that much, so I definitely have the
time,... And I can learn by reading and doing,... The only thing that
really worries me is the financial cost,...But who knows what the future
holds. Any help would be very much welcomed.~Dean.

[Tynk]

Papa Red wrote:
> I have done some reading up on the subject of breeding the Betta
> splendens species. And what I intend to do is to take it as the chinese
> say, "E-poo-E-poo-Li", or one step at a time. I am on Social Security
> Disability, and I don't go out all that much, so I definitely have the
> time,... And I can learn by reading and doing,... The only thing that
> really worries me is the financial cost,...But who knows what the future
> holds. Any help would be very much welcomed.~Dean.
Dean, I don't find breeding bettas to be that expensive, just time
consuming, which isn't a problem for you, as you've stated.
The only real cost is going to be the separate containers for juvie
males.
I used to save all large mayo jars, pickle jars, etc. Anything I could
get my hands on.
Now a days with so many disposable storage containers that are clear, I
am switching to them. They are cheap, and easily fit onto a shelf.
I just have hubby drill nice, clean holes throughout the tops and I'm
good to go. I get the largest ones I can.
They're also so much lighter than the glass, so that means I can have
more of them on a shelf and not worry about the weignt of the
glass...just the weight of the water.
Just something to think about.
If you'd like help..heck on a daily basis if you need it...just email
me directly.
No question is too little when it comes to Betta fry!
I would suggest you get that container you have them spawning in up to
your eye level. You need to watch under the bubble nest for ity bity
fry tail to be hanging out of the bubbles. If's you've not seen this
before, you caould be looking at them and not know it, hehe. They are
so tiny when first hatched out. I'm talking about before they start to
dart up and down from the nest.
I found that I have to get a stronger magnifying glass too! I may only
be 38, but I have noticed that my eyes aren't as good as they used to
be at seeing tiny things. The spawns I had going this summer made it
quite obvious that I need a stronger one..or gulp...reading glasses?!?!
= O

[John D. Goulden]

>I have a male betta in a 2.5 gallon tank. I've had him a couple
> of months. I have three female bettas in a separate 2.5 gallon
> tank. I've had them for about a week. I'm going to transfer
> all four into a 10 gallon tank. My question is who goes first -
> the male or the females? Or all at the same time.

10 gallons is not enough for a male and three female bettas (and three
females in a 2.5 is way over-crowded - make sure you are doing frequent 50%
water changes in that one). I like for bettas to have at least five gallons
each.

Having many bettas in one tank can lead to many problems. If the male is
aggressive, the females need room (and places) to hide from him. When there
are plenty of females, the male may kill the ones that aren't ready (or
willing) to mate. It's also not unheard of for a gang of females (three is
probably enough) to kill a male they don't like. Male bettas will kill one
another on sight unless the tank is large enough for them to establish
separate territories. Betta love can be pretty rough, and the dynamics of a
large tank with many females and a few males is...interesting.

If you want them to breed, there are lots of good pages on breeding bettas.
Google "breeding bettas" or visit links posted in this newsgroup.

If you don't care if they breed or not and just want them all in one tank,
try this:

(a) Get a bigger tank - 30 or 40 gallons.

(b) Put plenty of plants and other cover in it. I usually give my female
bettas one of those silly underwater castles to hide in. Bettas like large,
broad-leafed plants; the males in particular will often rest on the leaves.
Live plants and a sand / gravel substrate also do a lot for maintaining a
stable biosystem in your tank. Also note that bettas do best with a heated
tank (about 78F), calm water, and a bit of aquarium salt (I usually put in
half the recommended dose).

(c) Install a mesh divider at about the two-thirds point. You can easily
make one from plastic mesh and report-cover binders, both available at the
local Wal-Mart or hobby store. Put the water-disturbing components of the
filter system(s) near the divider. Don't fill the tank too high and make
sure the divider rises well above the water surface; bettas in general (and
female bettas in particular) are notorious jumpers.

(d) Move the male into the smaller partition and the females into the
larger. You will not have any cycling issues with only four small fish in a
30 or 40 gallon planted tank, especially if you move plants and ornaments
from your already-cycled tanks into the new tank. Give them a couple of
weeks to get settled and establish their territories. You will probably find
that the male flares at the females and that they avoid him, but he can't
get to them (nor can they get to him) and everyone has plenty of space if
they want to avoid one another.

(e) 9 times out of 10 you will find that after a couple of weeks the male
and females spend most of their time near the divider flirting with one
another. It may go further than that - one or more of the females may get
eggs and mating stripes. I've seen females at this stage perform some fairly
spectacular jumps to get over with the male, and if there are any gaps
between your divider and the sidewalls of the aquarium they WILL find them.
Some day when you think they're ready and you have time to watch them,
remove the divider and see what happens. Even if all goes well you may want
to divide them again at night until you're sure that they get along OK
without your supervision. If a pair evolves and they do mate, the male will
probably build the nest in his original territory and the females will
retreat into "their" side of the tank - if this happens put the divider back
in.

I've done this many times with male / female pairs (usually in ten-gallon
tanks) but have never tried it with multiple females. With this kind of
long-term exposure before putting them together they hardly ever mate but do
usually become fast friends (at least they always swim together and rub on
each other in an affectionate kind of way). A typical experience is that
when the divider is removed they spend a few hours apart exploring the
"unknown" part of the tank, then pair up and stay that way. You may find
that they sleep in their original territories rather than together. Of
course with multiple females there's no telling what will happen :)

(g) Such platonic pairs of bettas do well with guppies, swordtails, and
neons and help make a nice colorful tank (mating pairs shouldn't have
tank-mates). However, if you've had bettas for long you know how readily
they interact with you and others outside the tank (for instance, bettas can
quickly learn to jump and take bloodworms from your fingertips); the
livebearers are oblivious to anything that isn't directly in front of their
nose. The bettas won't hunt down and devour your guppy / swordtail fry any
more aggressively than the guppies and swordtails.

Let us know how it goes; there are lots of betta lovers in this newsgroup.

--
John Goulden
mostly goldies, guppies, swordtails and bettas