Need filter suggestion for cichlid tank

[George Pontis]

I have a fairly newly setup cichlid tank, and thinking that my filtration is
marginal. The tank is 125G nominal capacity but actual water volume is more like
100 gallons. Size is 6' long, 18" wide, and 20" high. The population consists of
six 3.5" to 5.5" Lake Malawi cichlids, mostly peacocks, no mbuna. Also six 3.5" to
4.5" clown loaches and a 6-7" common plecostomus. There is an assortment of plants
around the sides and back. Substrate is 3-5mm smooth quartz gravel. Large pieces
of slate are stacked on the right and left sides two high with maybe 2" gaps. (The
clown loaches favor the bottom story on the left.)

Filtration is a single Fluval 404 drawing from a suction tube at the right side
and low. The return is split three ways: two Marineland Pro30 near the middle of
the tank and the Fluval return nozzle at the left side. The nozzle gets most of
the flow, maybe 50% of the total 340GPH. This filter is rated for 100 gallons
maximum, and at this rate the filter could turn over the tank around 3 times per
hour. I assume that the biowheels add significant extra biological capacity.
Marineland rates them for 30 gallons each.

I don't think there is really enough flow in the tank to effectively draw debris
from one side of the tank to the other and into the filter inlet. Especially with
the rockwork, I don't know if the filter is going to create any meaningful flow
under and between the slates. I recently took apart much of the rockwork to do a
thorough gravel vacuuming and found several pockets of junk. It was a lot of work
and I wouldn't want to have to do this for every gravel vacuuming. My thinking is
to add additional circulation or filtration, but am unsure how the fish would like
that or how effective it might be. The tank is too close to the wall to use a
hang-on overflow or behind the tank filter of any type.

Any comments or suggestions ?

George

[kay-bee]

Not necessarily a filter, but for added water flow/current you could add a
power head or two.
Decently placed, the water flow provided by the power head can assist in
preventing waste from settling on the substrate and direct it to the general
area of your intakes. There are a wide variety of power heads out there, the
one I use has a measured flow of 295gph.

Lots of options for filters. Aquaclear 110 power filters are rated at 500gph
(probably somewhat reduced when loaded with media), and definately provide
some movement as well. I've got two of those on my 125g in addition to an
XP3 canister and a generic 330gph HOB.

kay-bee

"George Pontis" > wrote in message
t...
>I have a fairly newly setup cichlid tank, and thinking that my filtration
>is
> marginal. The tank is 125G nominal capacity but actual water volume is
> more like
> 100 gallons. Size is 6' long, 18" wide, and 20" high. The population
> consists of
> six 3.5" to 5.5" Lake Malawi cichlids, mostly peacocks, no mbuna. Also six
> 3.5" to
> 4.5" clown loaches and a 6-7" common plecostomus. There is an assortment
> of plants
> around the sides and back. Substrate is 3-5mm smooth quartz gravel. Large
> pieces
> of slate are stacked on the right and left sides two high with maybe 2"
> gaps. (The
> clown loaches favor the bottom story on the left.)
>
> Filtration is a single Fluval 404 drawing from a suction tube at the right
> side
> and low. The return is split three ways: two Marineland Pro30 near the
> middle of
> the tank and the Fluval return nozzle at the left side. The nozzle gets
> most of
> the flow, maybe 50% of the total 340GPH. This filter is rated for 100
> gallons
> maximum, and at this rate the filter could turn over the tank around 3
> times per
> hour. I assume that the biowheels add significant extra biological
> capacity.
> Marineland rates them for 30 gallons each.
>
> I don't think there is really enough flow in the tank to effectively draw
> debris
> from one side of the tank to the other and into the filter inlet.
> Especially with
> the rockwork, I don't know if the filter is going to create any meaningful
> flow
> under and between the slates. I recently took apart much of the rockwork
> to do a
> thorough gravel vacuuming and found several pockets of junk. It was a lot
> of work
> and I wouldn't want to have to do this for every gravel vacuuming. My
> thinking is
> to add additional circulation or filtration, but am unsure how the fish
> would like
> that or how effective it might be. The tank is too close to the wall to
> use a
> hang-on overflow or behind the tank filter of any type.
>
> Any comments or suggestions ?
>
> George

[kay-bee]

Sorry, the AC110s won't work for you (I overlooked the part about you not
having any room for a hang-on).
But a power head will most definately work.

My fish don't mind the circulation of the power head. You have lots of
options on where you can position them and place them where they're most
effective.

kay-bee

> "George Pontis" > wrote in message
> t...
My
>> thinking is
>> to add additional circulation or filtration, but am unsure how the fish
>> would like
>> that or how effective it might be. The tank is too close to the wall to
>> use a
>> hang-on overflow or behind the tank filter of any type.
>>
>> Any comments or suggestions ?
>>
>> George
>
>

[Dr.]

"George Pontis" > wrote in message
t...
>I have a fairly newly setup cichlid tank, and thinking that my filtration
>is
> marginal.

Twice now I've bought junky filters and regretted it. Now 3 out of my 4
tanks have Eheim canisters. They're easy to clean, easy to set up, and are
pretty much silent. For that tank, the Pro II 2028, rated for 159 gallons,
would be nice. Or 2128 with a built in heater. I put a smaller Pro I on my
newest tank, with the Eheim prefilter, which sits on the bottom. I found a
nice chunk of bogwood which hides it fairly well. They're not cheap, ($159
for the small one (rated 66 gal) ... too lazy to look up the model #), but
well worth it IMO.

The local place where I buy most of my goodies has the 2028 on sale right
now for $199. I don't want it to look like I'm promoting them... I can post
the link to the place here, or email it... whichever. Filter pads are
included, but not the biological filter media or the mechanical
pasta-lookin' filter media. That stuff isn't very cheap either.

I'm not familiar with Fluval... If you get another canister, maybe stack 2
spraybars at one end of the tank and put both intakes on the other end, or
one half way, and the other on the end. I really don't think you can have
too much filtration.

Good luck with whichever way you approach it.

Gary

[George Pontis]

In article >,
says...
>
> "George Pontis" > wrote in message
> t...
> >I have a fairly newly setup cichlid tank, and thinking that my filtration
> >is
> > marginal.
>
> Twice now I've bought junky filters and regretted it. Now 3 out of my 4
> tanks have Eheim canisters. They're easy to clean, easy to set up, and are
> pretty much silent. For that tank, the Pro II 2028, rated for 159 gallons,
> would be nice. Or 2128 with a built in heater. I put a smaller Pro I on my
> newest tank, with the Eheim prefilter, which sits on the bottom. I found a
> nice chunk of bogwood which hides it fairly well. They're not cheap, ($159
> for the small one (rated 66 gal) ... too lazy to look up the model #), but
> well worth it IMO.
>
> The local place where I buy most of my goodies has the 2028 on sale right
> now for $199. I don't want it to look like I'm promoting them... I can post
> the link to the place here, or email it... whichever. Filter pads are
> included, but not the biological filter media or the mechanical
> pasta-lookin' filter media. That stuff isn't very cheap either.
>
> I'm not familiar with Fluval... If you get another canister, maybe stack 2
> spraybars at one end of the tank and put both intakes on the other end, or
> one half way, and the other on the end. I really don't think you can have
> too much filtration.
>

OK, it sounds like you and Kay-Bee are recommending more circulation without
worrying about it being excessive for these fish. That makes sense since a
doubling would only boost it up to 6 turns per hour. I think that I could
incorporate another canister easily enough. The Fluval 404, I bought it new for
only $99 and that included media. I have a smaller Eheim 2224 (Pro 1) that is a
beautiful piece of gear and nearly silent, but the 404 is good enough and so much
less expensive.

[Dr.]

"George Pontis" > wrote in message
t...
> OK, it sounds like you and Kay-Bee are recommending more circulation
> without
> worrying about it being excessive for these fish. That makes sense since a
> doubling would only boost it up to 6 turns per hour. I think that I could
> incorporate another canister easily enough. The Fluval 404, I bought it
> new for
> only $99 and that included media. I have a smaller Eheim 2224 (Pro 1) that
> is a > beautiful piece of gear and nearly silent, but the 404 is good
> enough and so much
> less expensive.

With that large of a tank, 2 spraybars at one end wouldn't cause it to be
too turbid, I wouldn't think. Not if the Fluval doesn't out-pump the 2128 I
have on my 72 gallon by much.

Sounds like a good plan going with another Fluval.

Gary

[George B.]

I have a 75 gallon African tank using a Fluval 404 and a dual biowheel
powered with a powerhead. There is more than enough filtration (0
nitirites). Nitrate build up is controled by partial water changes. If you
want more circulation then I agree with the powerhead. I ran one attached
to a sponge filter and the sponge gathered more debris than the Fluval.
Adding another 404 would be, in my opinion, overkill.
"George Pontis" > wrote in message
t...
>I have a fairly newly setup cichlid tank, and thinking that my filtration
>is
> marginal. The tank is 125G nominal capacity but actual water volume is
> more like
> 100 gallons. Size is 6' long, 18" wide, and 20" high. The population
> consists of
> six 3.5" to 5.5" Lake Malawi cichlids, mostly peacocks, no mbuna. Also six
> 3.5" to
> 4.5" clown loaches and a 6-7" common plecostomus. There is an assortment
> of plants
> around the sides and back. Substrate is 3-5mm smooth quartz gravel. Large
> pieces
> of slate are stacked on the right and left sides two high with maybe 2"
> gaps. (The
> clown loaches favor the bottom story on the left.)
>
> Filtration is a single Fluval 404 drawing from a suction tube at the right
> side
> and low. The return is split three ways: two Marineland Pro30 near the
> middle of
> the tank and the Fluval return nozzle at the left side. The nozzle gets
> most of
> the flow, maybe 50% of the total 340GPH. This filter is rated for 100
> gallons
> maximum, and at this rate the filter could turn over the tank around 3
> times per
> hour. I assume that the biowheels add significant extra biological
> capacity.
> Marineland rates them for 30 gallons each.
>
> I don't think there is really enough flow in the tank to effectively draw
> debris
> from one side of the tank to the other and into the filter inlet.
> Especially with
> the rockwork, I don't know if the filter is going to create any meaningful
> flow
> under and between the slates. I recently took apart much of the rockwork
> to do a
> thorough gravel vacuuming and found several pockets of junk. It was a lot
> of work
> and I wouldn't want to have to do this for every gravel vacuuming. My
> thinking is
> to add additional circulation or filtration, but am unsure how the fish
> would like
> that or how effective it might be. The tank is too close to the wall to
> use a
> hang-on overflow or behind the tank filter of any type.
>
> Any comments or suggestions ?
>
> George

[George Pontis]

In article >,
says...
> I have a 75 gallon African tank using a Fluval 404 and a dual biowheel
> powered with a powerhead. There is more than enough filtration (0
> nitirites). Nitrate build up is controled by partial water changes. If you
> want more circulation then I agree with the powerhead. I ran one attached
> to a sponge filter and the sponge gathered more debris than the Fluval.
> Adding another 404 would be, in my opinion, overkill.

Your setup makes a lot of sense to me, and on several occasions I have suggested
the PH-Biowheel combo to others as a very cost effective way of adding mechanical
and biological filtration. I never really gave it enough consideration for this
tank. One reason may have been that I have been able to move almost all the
technology out of the tank and under the stand. The only thing really visible is a
dip tube ("Eheim installation set 1").

That said, I finally ordered a second 404 but have not yet received or installed
it. As far as being overkill, I don't think it would be. The specs on the 404 say
340GPH pump, but in further detail admit to only 225 GPH "circulation". So for an
actual 100G water capacity, two of these could turn over the tank 4.5 times per
hour. That is right in the middle of the 3-6 turns per hour that is often
recommended. One thing is for sure, a single 404 is not enough for this
application.

George (P)

[erik w]

George Pontis wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>I have a 75 gallon African tank using a Fluval 404 and a dual biowheel
>>powered with a powerhead. There is more than enough filtration (0
>>nitirites). Nitrate build up is controled by partial water changes. If you
>>want more circulation then I agree with the powerhead. I ran one attached
>>to a sponge filter and the sponge gathered more debris than the Fluval.
>>Adding another 404 would be, in my opinion, overkill.
>
>
> Your setup makes a lot of sense to me, and on several occasions I have suggested
> the PH-Biowheel combo to others as a very cost effective way of adding mechanical
> and biological filtration. I never really gave it enough consideration for this
> tank. One reason may have been that I have been able to move almost all the
> technology out of the tank and under the stand. The only thing really visible is a
> dip tube ("Eheim installation set 1").
>
> That said, I finally ordered a second 404 but have not yet received or installed
> it. As far as being overkill, I don't think it would be. The specs on the 404 say
> 340GPH pump, but in further detail admit to only 225 GPH "circulation". So for an
> actual 100G water capacity, two of these could turn over the tank 4.5 times per
> hour. That is right in the middle of the 3-6 turns per hour that is often
> recommended. One thing is for sure, a single 404 is not enough for this
> application.
>
> George (P)

Wish I had a canister filter. I just have a Emperor 400 for my 75 ga. By
the way it is going to be cool when you get the file not found for
tank. lol. Get it? 404 error: file not found. I am such a nerd!

Erik

[Ridley Scoot]

On 2005-09-13 20:12:30 -0400, George Pontis > said:

> I have a fairly newly setup cichlid tank, and thinking that my
> filtration is marginal. The tank is 125G nominal capacity but actual
> water volume is more like 100 gallons. Size is 6' long, 18" wide, and
> 20" high. The population consists of six 3.5" to 5.5" Lake Malawi
> cichlids, mostly peacocks, no mbuna. Also six 3.5" to 4.5" clown
> loaches and a 6-7" common plecostomus. There is an assortment of plants
> around the sides and back. Substrate is 3-5mm smooth quartz gravel.
> Large pieces of slate are stacked on the right and left sides two high
> with maybe 2" gaps. (The clown loaches favor the bottom story on the
> left.)
>
> Filtration is a single Fluval 404 drawing from a suction tube at the
> right side and low. The return is split three ways: two Marineland
> Pro30 near the middle of the tank and the Fluval return nozzle at the
> left side. The nozzle gets most of the flow, maybe 50% of the total
> 340GPH. This filter is rated for 100 gallons maximum, and at this rate
> the filter could turn over the tank around 3 times per hour. I assume
> that the biowheels add significant extra biological capacity.
> Marineland rates them for 30 gallons each.
>
> I don't think there is really enough flow in the tank to effectively
> draw debris from one side of the tank to the other and into the filter
> inlet. Especially with the rockwork, I don't know if the filter is
> going to create any meaningful flow under and between the slates. I
> recently took apart much of the rockwork to do a thorough gravel
> vacuuming and found several pockets of junk. It was a lot of work and I
> wouldn't want to have to do this for every gravel vacuuming. My
> thinking is to add additional circulation or filtration, but am unsure
> how the fish would like that or how effective it might be. The tank is
> too close to the wall to use a hang-on overflow or behind the tank
> filter of any type.
>
> Any comments or suggestions ?
>
> George

Adding a powerhead for circulation is a popular option, and I'd second it.

If you want to be creative, pick up some cheap 1" PVC and make a
spraybar for the powerhead (and/or the Fluval) so you can direct the
flow to stir up the bottom cruft without having so much force to be
"disturbing".

Having said that, I've also run a pair of cannisters in the past and
that's a pretty good rig too.

I'd still add the home-brew spray-bar for the output. (hose
barb/threaded fitting+PVC/threaded fitting+pipe (drilled)+end cap)

[toreskeviin]

Your installation, so that one means a lot to me, and in several occasions, I suggested In the PH-Biowheel portfolio to others as a cost-effective way to increase mechanical and biological filtration. I never really put it fully into account the tanks. One reason may be, I have been able to move, almost all technology to produce out of the tank and in accordance with the position.

[nelssoncraigg]

Twice now I've bought abominable filters and regretted it. Now 3 out of my 4 tanks accept Eheim canisters. They're simple to clean, simple to set up, and are pretty abundant silent. For that tank, the Pro II 2028, rated for 159 gallons, would be nice.