My CAE finally showed his true colours... which tankmates to choose?

[Rod Bacon]

I have been reading with great interest comments that people had made
about 3" and larger CAEs getting aggressive towards other tank
inhabitants. Mine was always a reasonably placid sort of creature,
spending every waking moment vacuuming everything in sight clean of
algae, largely ignoring the other fish.

Up until last week, his only tank (200L) mates were 6 zebra danios (one
of which I unfortunately found on the floor after a tank-cleaning
session) and 3 (false) SAEs.

The CAE would occasionally peck at his tankmates, but as they are all
super-active fish (the danios and SAEs never stop foraging and playing)
he never really got a chance to seriously harass them.

Enter 2 platties. A largish (for a plattie) red male with a curious
'Mickey Mouse' pattern on his tail, and a smaller blueish female.

The platties are a much slower-moving fish than my others, and tend to
hover. The CAE harassed the female to the point of death, and the male
now spends most of his time staying at the other end of the tank from
the CAE, in heavy plant cover. He is definately stressed, as the
slightest noise makes him duck for cover, and he generally looks less
than happy. There is plenty of room to get away, and lots of hiding
spots, so I'm hoping he'll be OK once he really settles in.

In a week's time (after I return from holiday), I'm going to add some
more fish to the tank, as my cycle will (should) have completed. Given
the CAE's behaviour, I guess have 2 options;

1. Take the CAE to the LFS, and leave him there, which would be a shame
because he's a beautiful (golden) fish, and is fun to watch. He was the
first fish in my new tank, and as such has some sentimental value as
well.

2. Choose his tankmates more carefully. The way I see it, I can have 2
types of fish in the tank now... small, fast-movers that won't be at
risk, or larger more intimidating species that shouldn't get harassed.
The mid-sized slow-movers, I belive, will be most at risk.

Ultimately, I would like to get some neon tetras. I'm hoping that
they're too small for the CAE to bother with. Also, I _really_ like
gouramis, and I suspect that they'd be big enough to not get hassled
either. I like livebearers, so I'm also thinking of a couple of the
larger varieties, like mollies or larger swords. Perhaps even some
(Australian) rainbows. My tank is quite well planted with some java
moss, java ferns, ambulia, wisteria, thin val and varigated rush. I
don't want any species that's gong to destroy my plants (silver dollar,
keep away!).

Tank is 200L (55 Gal?), ph 7.4, hardness 140ppm, temp 26 degrees
celcius.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

[Tynk]

Rod Bacon wrote:
> I have been reading with great interest comments that people had made
> about 3" and larger CAEs getting aggressive towards other tank
> inhabitants. Mine was always a reasonably placid sort of creature,
> spending every waking moment vacuuming everything in sight clean of
> algae, largely ignoring the other fish.
>
> Up until last week, his only tank (200L) mates were 6 zebra danios (one
> of which I unfortunately found on the floor after a tank-cleaning
> session) and 3 (false) SAEs.
>
> The CAE would occasionally peck at his tankmates, but as they are all
> super-active fish (the danios and SAEs never stop foraging and playing)
> he never really got a chance to seriously harass them.
>
> Enter 2 platties. A largish (for a plattie) red male with a curious
> 'Mickey Mouse' pattern on his tail, and a smaller blueish female.
>
> The platties are a much slower-moving fish than my others, and tend to
> hover. The CAE harassed the female to the point of death, and the male
> now spends most of his time staying at the other end of the tank from
> the CAE, in heavy plant cover. He is definately stressed, as the
> slightest noise makes him duck for cover, and he generally looks less
> than happy. There is plenty of room to get away, and lots of hiding
> spots, so I'm hoping he'll be OK once he really settles in.
>
> In a week's time (after I return from holiday), I'm going to add some
> more fish to the tank, as my cycle will (should) have completed. Given
> the CAE's behaviour, I guess have 2 options;
>
> 1. Take the CAE to the LFS, and leave him there, which would be a shame
> because he's a beautiful (golden) fish, and is fun to watch. He was the
> first fish in my new tank, and as such has some sentimental value as
> well.
>
> 2. Choose his tankmates more carefully. The way I see it, I can have 2
> types of fish in the tank now... small, fast-movers that won't be at
> risk, or larger more intimidating species that shouldn't get harassed.
> The mid-sized slow-movers, I belive, will be most at risk.
>
> Ultimately, I would like to get some neon tetras. I'm hoping that
> they're too small for the CAE to bother with. Also, I _really_ like
> gouramis, and I suspect that they'd be big enough to not get hassled
> either. I like livebearers, so I'm also thinking of a couple of the
> larger varieties, like mollies or larger swords. Perhaps even some
> (Australian) rainbows. My tank is quite well planted with some java
> moss, java ferns, ambulia, wisteria, thin val and varigated rush. I
> don't want any species that's gong to destroy my plants (silver dollar,
> keep away!).
>
> Tank is 200L (55 Gal?), ph 7.4, hardness 140ppm, temp 26 degrees
> celcius.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations?

I recommend you take the little bugger to the shop.
They are bad news.
The Gouramis you are thinking about adding would be sitting ducks for
the CAE. They're slower, and have big sides...just perfect for the CAE
to suck it's slime coat off...even to the point of making a hole in
it's body.
Looks just like a fish TB lesion (the hold they leave). The only one
I've ever had the displeasure of owningwas when I was a little girl. I
had found out the hard way how they get after 3" in legnth. This little
bugger killed my Corydora. They're tuff too...but he had no prob
getting through. Made a huge hole in the poor guys side and it killed
him.
Being 11 at the time I didn't know what was going on until it was too
late, as this guy did it to the cory at night.
It will never leave the fish alone. It will constantly chase them
trying to latch onto them. Why worry yourself, and the fish. Just call
a shop and see of they'll take him in. It may help to explain that when
you bought it you were not told about this lovely behavior they have
when they get older.
It is a shame, as they are great algae eaters when little.

[Rod Bacon]

I think you're right. My SAEs are great algae eaters, and are
completely harmless. Mr. CAEs days are surely numbered.

[Glengoyne]

We have the same problem with our CAE. He got about 2.5 in and is now
in his own tank because he wouldn't leave the gouramis alone. We had
him for a time in with an angel, and they seemed to have some sort of
understanding going on, because we never saw him until the angel died,
now he is happily buzzing about the tank finding everything he can
munch on.

We can't get rid of him because he is the sole survivor of the batch of
fish, and is still somewhat our daughters. Whenever we bring up the
idea of shipping him back she flattly refuses.

I talked with the LFS and they recommended barbs, although I don't know
anything about danios and how they would interact together. I have
pretty much resigned myself to the eventuallity of 2 large tanks,
probably a peaceful and cichlid tank.

Oh, and Rainbows *DO NOT* like CAE's. Out of frustration, I dumped the
CAE back in to the main tank to do some cleaning, and all the time he
was in there, the rainbows(dwarf neon) huddled at the top, opposite
corner from where the CAE was working.

[Daniel Morrow]

"Rod Bacon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
My tank is quite well planted with some java
> moss, java ferns, ambulia, wisteria, thin val and varigated rush. I
> don't want any species that's gong to destroy my plants (silver dollar,
> keep away!).

Interestingly the only thing I have ever seen my silver dollars eat has been
algae wafers. They do uproot the plants all of the time though. That isn't
bad for me though because the plants are semi-floating (java fern) and fully
floating hornwort which thankfully is growing like a weed in the silver
dollar tank which is what I want to happen (growth, and fast growth at
that). One employee at the local pet country actually told me that silver
dollars are omnivorous in captivity and herbivorous in nature. I practically
never see my silver dollars eat and I wonder where they get their energy?
Must be the algae wafers. Later!

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "Tynk" > Spake Unto All:

>> Does anyone have any recommendations?
>
>I recommend you take the little bugger to the shop.
>They are bad news.

They are definitely very bad news, which is why few shops take bigger
specimens back.
My recommendation would be to destroy it. CAE's are simply not
suitable as community aquarium fish.

CAE's, tiger barbs, oscars and paroon sharks are IME fish which should
be sold only to experienced aquarists with special interest in them.
Not, as is usually the case, to beginner aquarists who have no idea
what they're really bringing home in that bag.

[Rick]

I agree with the oscar statement. Every fish store I go to, local or chain,
has atleast 1 tank full of cute baby (2in os so) oscars, how can you
resist??? A friend of mine who has seen my tanks, told me he bought his son
2 cute little oscars for his son and a 10 gallon tank!!!! I seeded his tank
for him, like any friend would do, but also said to him "didn't you see that
really big fish I have that lives alone in one of my bigger tanks (60g)?"
"Yes" he says. "Well that is an oscar" So back went one of the oscars, and
he's now shopping for a bigger tank.

P.S. I have to admit, one of my first fish was an oscar too. Lost 2 before I
learned how to care for them.


"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
> Thusly "Tynk" > Spake Unto All:
>
>>> Does anyone have any recommendations?
>>
>>I recommend you take the little bugger to the shop.
>>They are bad news.
>
> They are definitely very bad news, which is why few shops take bigger
> specimens back.
> My recommendation would be to destroy it. CAE's are simply not
> suitable as community aquarium fish.
>
> CAE's, tiger barbs, oscars and paroon sharks are IME fish which should
> be sold only to experienced aquarists with special interest in them.
> Not, as is usually the case, to beginner aquarists who have no idea
> what they're really bringing home in that bag.
>

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "Rick" > Spake Unto All:

>P.S. I have to admit, one of my first fish was an oscar too. Lost 2 before I
>learned how to care for them.

I think pretty much every aquarist buys an ill-adviced oscar early in
their careers. Yes, me too.

[FishNoob]

In article >,
says...
> I think pretty much every aquarist buys an ill-adviced oscar early in
> their careers. Yes, me too.

Well I won't. Not now I've been reading here <G>

What does CAE stand for btw? And LFS (local fish shop?)

--
FishNoob

[Rick]

Chinese Algae Eater and yes Local Fish Store


"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> I think pretty much every aquarist buys an ill-adviced oscar early in
>> their careers. Yes, me too.
>
> Well I won't. Not now I've been reading here <G>
>
> What does CAE stand for btw? And LFS (local fish shop?)
>
> --
> FishNoob

[lgb]

In article >,
says...
> They are definitely very bad news, which is why few shops take bigger
> specimens back.
> My recommendation would be to destroy it. CAE's are simply not
> suitable as community aquarium fish.
>
Just out of curiosity, has anyone kept them in a species tank? Or are
they just as agressive with each other?

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly lgb > Spake Unto All:

>Just out of curiosity, has anyone kept them in a species tank? Or are
>they just as agressive with each other?

I'm sure someone has, and I'm sure that might be quite interesting.
For anyone wanting to try, here's a bit of info on them:
http://filaman.uni-kiel.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12298

However, to keep more than one adult I would expect a longer aquarium
than 60cm (roughly 24") is needed.

[NetMax]

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
> Thusly lgb > Spake Unto All:
>
>>Just out of curiosity, has anyone kept them in a species tank? Or are
>>they just as agressive with each other?
>
> I'm sure someone has, and I'm sure that might be quite interesting.

That's an understatement ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

> For anyone wanting to try, here's a bit of info on them:
> http://filaman.uni-kiel.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12298
>
> However, to keep more than one adult I would expect a longer aquarium
> than 60cm (roughly 24") is needed.
>

[Rod Bacon]

After a week away from my tank, I came home to a flourishing aquarium
with perfect water (cycle now complete). After doing the customary
water change, I went off to the LFS to buy some more fish, with my CAE
in hand. To my delight, they not only took him off my hands, but they
swapped him for a juvenile pleco. The minute I removed him from the
tank, my remaining male plattie left his hiding hole and started
swimming happily around the tank.

Now everybody is happy. My 200L now has 12 neons, 5 zebra danios, 3
false SAE's, 3 platties, 1 swordtail and 2 gouramis. The only other
addition I can forsee in the near future (next weekend) are 3 clown
loaches.