Newbie Day 5

[FishNoob]

So far, so good, I think :-)

Day 1 - bought and set up tank.
Day 3 - added one zebra danio and one leopard danio
Day 5 (today) - Both fish still alive ;-). Tested for ammonia and
nitrites, both at 0.

So now my next batch of questions:

- I have some plants (fake ones) set up in the tank. I have only
about half of what would really be needed, so rather than spread them
sparsely, I set them up in one half of the tank, figuring that would
give the fish somewhere to hide etc. When adding more, how do I do
this? Will it bother the fish if I just stick my hand in with them?

- One of the danios (the zebra one) has spent almost the entire day
down in the bottom corner behind the plants. I thought maybe it was
stuck, and used a chopstick to poke the plants out of the way to see
if it would escape. The danio swam straight up to the surface, swam
around the tank for a few minutes, then disappeared behind the plants
again. A minute or two later, it swam out on its own, then a few
minutes after that, back behind the plants, right down in the corner.
Is this anything to be concerned about, or do I just have a
particularly shy danio?

- Can we add some more fish tomorrow? Perhaps a couple of mollies?
And if so, when should we test the water again?

TIA
--
FishNoob

[Rick]

"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...
> So far, so good, I think :-)
>
> Day 1 - bought and set up tank.
> Day 3 - added one zebra danio and one leopard danio
> Day 5 (today) - Both fish still alive ;-). Tested for ammonia and
> nitrites, both at 0.
>
> So now my next batch of questions:

First let me say, I'm far from the expert that some of the group is.
>
> - I have some plants (fake ones) set up in the tank. I have only
> about half of what would really be needed, so rather than spread them
> sparsely, I set them up in one half of the tank, figuring that would
> give the fish somewhere to hide etc. When adding more, how do I do
> this? Will it bother the fish if I just stick my hand in with them?

I wouldn't worry about it, the fish will get used to you and your hands,
after all, you are a mom with a gentle touch. :)
>
> - One of the danios (the zebra one) has spent almost the entire day
> down in the bottom corner behind the plants. I thought maybe it was
> stuck, and used a chopstick to poke the plants out of the way to see
> if it would escape. The danio swam straight up to the surface, swam
> around the tank for a few minutes, then disappeared behind the plants
> again. A minute or two later, it swam out on its own, then a few
> minutes after that, back behind the plants, right down in the corner.
> Is this anything to be concerned about, or do I just have a
> particularly shy danio?

I think, if he does't eat, thhen you may have a concern.
>
> - Can we add some more fish tomorrow? Perhaps a couple of mollies?
> And if so, when should we test the water again?

IMO I would hold off on added more fish for a few if not more weeks, for
cycle to complete. I'm sure others (who type faster and easier), will give
more detailed responces.

I have a feeling you will be fine at the hobby, since you seem to ask and
research before jumping right in (like I did).
>
> TIA
> --
> FishNoob

[m]

> - I have some plants (fake ones) set up in the tank. I have only
> about half of what would really be needed, so rather than spread them
> sparsely, I set them up in one half of the tank, figuring that would
> give the fish somewhere to hide etc. When adding more, how do I do
> this? Will it bother the fish if I just stick my hand in with them?


I doubt it would bother them. Once you start to put your hands in, the
fish will (probably) swim over to the other side of the tank. As long
as they have somewhere thats out of your way to be, there shouldn't be
a problem.


> - One of the danios (the zebra one) has spent almost the entire day
> down in the bottom corner behind the plants. I thought maybe it was
> stuck, and used a chopstick to poke the plants out of the way to see
> if it would escape. The danio swam straight up to the surface, swam
> around the tank for a few minutes, then disappeared behind the plants
> again. A minute or two later, it swam out on its own, then a few
> minutes after that, back behind the plants, right down in the corner.
> Is this anything to be concerned about, or do I just have a
> particularly shy danio?


Your danio could be still adjusting to his new tank, but it's probably
because he doesn't have a school to be with. I'm not sure if different
varieties of danios will school together, but you should definitely add
a few more later. It'll make the fish happier and they'll be more
interesting to watch.


> - Can we add some more fish tomorrow? Perhaps a couple of mollies?
> And if so, when should we test the water again?

Other people here can give you much better advice about that.
Personally, I'd recommend adding a couple more danios before adding
other fish, but other people might say just go for it.

-m

[Rick]

"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...
> So far, so good, I think :-)
>
> Day 1 - bought and set up tank.
> Day 3 - added one zebra danio and one leopard danio
> Day 5 (today) - Both fish still alive ;-). Tested for ammonia and
> nitrites, both at 0.
>
> So now my next batch of questions:

First let me say, I'm far from the expert that some of the group is.
>
> - I have some plants (fake ones) set up in the tank. I have only
> about half of what would really be needed, so rather than spread them
> sparsely, I set them up in one half of the tank, figuring that would
> give the fish somewhere to hide etc. When adding more, how do I do
> this? Will it bother the fish if I just stick my hand in with them?

I wouldn't worry about it, the fish will get used to you and your hands,
after all, you are a mom with a gentle touch. :)
>
> - One of the danios (the zebra one) has spent almost the entire day
> down in the bottom corner behind the plants. I thought maybe it was
> stuck, and used a chopstick to poke the plants out of the way to see
> if it would escape. The danio swam straight up to the surface, swam
> around the tank for a few minutes, then disappeared behind the plants
> again. A minute or two later, it swam out on its own, then a few
> minutes after that, back behind the plants, right down in the corner.
> Is this anything to be concerned about, or do I just have a
> particularly shy danio?

I think, if he does't eat, thhen you may have a concern.
>
> - Can we add some more fish tomorrow? Perhaps a couple of mollies?
> And if so, when should we test the water again?

IMO I would hold off on added more fish for a few if not more weeks, for
cycle to complete. I'm sure others (who type faster and easier), will give
more detailed responces.

I have a feeling you will be fine at the hobby, since you seem to ask and
research before jumping right in (like I did).
>
> TIA
> --
> FishNoob

[Elaine T]

FishNoob wrote:
> So far, so good, I think :-)
>
> Day 1 - bought and set up tank.
> Day 3 - added one zebra danio and one leopard danio
> Day 5 (today) - Both fish still alive ;-). Tested for ammonia and
> nitrites, both at 0.

So far so good. Danios are a great choice to cycle the tank. Your tank
is 60 litres, right? If so, then three danios is about right to cycle
it. So you could add another zebra danio to keep the shy one company.
Then promise yourself that you will resist the temptation to add any
more fish until the cycle is done.

> So now my next batch of questions:
>
> - I have some plants (fake ones) set up in the tank. I have only
> about half of what would really be needed, so rather than spread them
> sparsely, I set them up in one half of the tank, figuring that would
> give the fish somewhere to hide etc. When adding more, how do I do
> this? Will it bother the fish if I just stick my hand in with them?

It's fine to stick a clean hand into the tank to rearrange things. Most
fish don't care much at all.

> - One of the danios (the zebra one) has spent almost the entire day
> down in the bottom corner behind the plants. I thought maybe it was
> stuck, and used a chopstick to poke the plants out of the way to see
> if it would escape. The danio swam straight up to the surface, swam
> around the tank for a few minutes, then disappeared behind the plants
> again. A minute or two later, it swam out on its own, then a few
> minutes after that, back behind the plants, right down in the corner.
> Is this anything to be concerned about, or do I just have a
> particularly shy danio?

Danios are shoaling fish and like to be in groups. Your danio was
pulled out of a big group of fish at the store and put with only one
other companion in your tank. He will get more comfortable with time,
and as I mentioned above, you could add a third danio.

> - Can we add some more fish tomorrow? Perhaps a couple of mollies?
> And if so, when should we test the water again?
>
> TIA

Livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, and mollies) are fairly
sensitive to water quality. Both to keep the fish load light and to
avoid the chance of killing the mollies, I would suggest you not add
mollies until the cycle is done. That will likely be in about 6-8 weeks.

Take the cycling time to ask lots of questions here and be sure of which
fish you really want. For example, I think platies or guppies are
better suited to tanks under 120 litres than mollies or swordtails
because they're smaller. 60 litres really isn't a lot of water so you
will want to plan out how you will stock the tank somewhat carefully.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[NetMax]

"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...
> So far, so good, I think :-)
>
> Day 1 - bought and set up tank.
> Day 3 - added one zebra danio and one leopard danio
> Day 5 (today) - Both fish still alive ;-). Tested for ammonia and
> nitrites, both at 0.
>
> So now my next batch of questions:
>
> - I have some plants (fake ones) set up in the tank. I have only
> about half of what would really be needed, so rather than spread them
> sparsely, I set them up in one half of the tank, figuring that would
> give the fish somewhere to hide etc. When adding more, how do I do
> this? Will it bother the fish if I just stick my hand in with them?

Wash your hand and arm just to get off any hand creams or soap residue.
When your hand is in the tank, just move slowly and they will become
accustomed to your moving around in there. In some cases, they eventually
become absolutely fearless, swimming through your fingers and picking at the
hairs on your arm. Danios are not the smartest, so they scare easy and
forget quickly. Cichlids would be more cautious initially, but then more
trusting later as they associated your face with non-danger.

> - One of the danios (the zebra one) has spent almost the entire day
> down in the bottom corner behind the plants. I thought maybe it was
> stuck, and used a chopstick to poke the plants out of the way to see
> if it would escape. The danio swam straight up to the surface, swam
> around the tank for a few minutes, then disappeared behind the plants
> again. A minute or two later, it swam out on its own, then a few
> minutes after that, back behind the plants, right down in the corner.
> Is this anything to be concerned about, or do I just have a
> particularly shy danio?

Their representative behavior is only expected under representative
conditions, which for a danio, is being in a crowd. Also, when first
introduced to a new environment, they behaviour is not representative. They
are prey (food fish) and they are in a glass box, so they will be a little
anxious. Don't be alarmed.

> - Can we add some more fish tomorrow?

no

> Perhaps a couple of mollies?
> And if so, when should we test the water again?

My understanding is that your tank is 17.5g. To cycle, I target about 1/4
capacity, or 4" of fish, or 3 to 4 danios. I would not add other types of
fish and just add 1 or 2 more danios. Mollies in particular are not
generally suited to the conditions which danios prosper in, and are not
great choices for cycling (unless it is only Mollies which allows you to add
salt during the nitrite stage).

In 3 or 4 days, you will see a build up of ammonia, which is controlled by
water changes until you start seeing nitrites instead. The nitrite stage
takes a little longer, until it is replaced by nitrates. Water changes
control everything, but ammonia is the most toxic, then nitrites, and then
nitrates which are fairly non-toxic and the biggest concern with them is
water shock (which is shocking the fish with a change of parameters). Water
shock is an ongoing issue whether it is temperature, hardness, nitrates etc.
The only concession to ignoring the consequences of water shock is when NH3
or NO2 are too high. There the status quo is worse than the shock.

You are entering the research & planting stage (which is all you can do
while cycling with fish, read, learn and add plants). This stage lasts from
3 to 6 weeks unassisted, or 1 to 3 days assisted (with aged media, bacteria
starter etc).

> TIA
> --
> FishNoob

I hope I've properly answered your questions, but don't hesitate to ask for
clarification :o). Many experienced hobbyists are here.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Rick]

See, I told ya the better typers (and more educated) would reply.


"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...
> So far, so good, I think :-)
>
> Day 1 - bought and set up tank.
> Day 3 - added one zebra danio and one leopard danio
> Day 5 (today) - Both fish still alive ;-). Tested for ammonia and
> nitrites, both at 0.
>
> So now my next batch of questions:
>
> - I have some plants (fake ones) set up in the tank. I have only
> about half of what would really be needed, so rather than spread them
> sparsely, I set them up in one half of the tank, figuring that would
> give the fish somewhere to hide etc. When adding more, how do I do
> this? Will it bother the fish if I just stick my hand in with them?
>
> - One of the danios (the zebra one) has spent almost the entire day
> down in the bottom corner behind the plants. I thought maybe it was
> stuck, and used a chopstick to poke the plants out of the way to see
> if it would escape. The danio swam straight up to the surface, swam
> around the tank for a few minutes, then disappeared behind the plants
> again. A minute or two later, it swam out on its own, then a few
> minutes after that, back behind the plants, right down in the corner.
> Is this anything to be concerned about, or do I just have a
> particularly shy danio?
>
> - Can we add some more fish tomorrow? Perhaps a couple of mollies?
> And if so, when should we test the water again?
>
> TIA
> --
> FishNoob

[FishNoob]

In article >,
says...
> My understanding is that your tank is 17.5g. To cycle, I target about 1/4
> capacity, or 4" of fish, or 3 to 4 danios. I would not add other types of
> fish and just add 1 or 2 more danios. Mollies in particular are not
> generally suited to the conditions which danios prosper in, and are not
> great choices for cycling (unless it is only Mollies which allows you to add
> salt during the nitrite stage).

Thanks for all your advice.

Unfortunately, our shy danio was on its back on the gravel this
morning :-(. Since that leaves us with only the leopard danio, we'll
visit the pet shop this afternoon and pick up some more. I wonder if
the danio's behaviour yesterday was because it wasn't well.

Will stick with danios until we've cycled the tank, and will test for
ammonia every couple of days until then. In the meantime, I'll
continue reading all I can find.

--
FishNoob

[Gill Passman]

FishNoob wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>My understanding is that your tank is 17.5g. To cycle, I target about 1/4
>>capacity, or 4" of fish, or 3 to 4 danios. I would not add other types of
>>fish and just add 1 or 2 more danios. Mollies in particular are not
>>generally suited to the conditions which danios prosper in, and are not
>>great choices for cycling (unless it is only Mollies which allows you to add
>>salt during the nitrite stage).
>
>
> Thanks for all your advice.
>
> Unfortunately, our shy danio was on its back on the gravel this
> morning :-(. Since that leaves us with only the leopard danio, we'll
> visit the pet shop this afternoon and pick up some more. I wonder if
> the danio's behaviour yesterday was because it wasn't well.
>
> Will stick with danios until we've cycled the tank, and will test for
> ammonia every couple of days until then. In the meantime, I'll
> continue reading all I can find.
>

Hi,

Sorry about the Danio :-( I think you are probably right and it wasn't
well when you got it....it would be worth mentioning when you go back
for more (they might give you some credit).

Sticking with the Danio's is a good idea. I actually test daily for
ammonia and nitrite when setting up a new tank so if the levels get
above the "safe" levels it can be addressed. If you get a positive on
the ammonia check out the pH as it is more toxic at higher pH's. Once
you get positive readings on the nitrite start testing for nitrates as
well - positive readings on nitrates will mean that the bacteria is
doing its job.

Did you get some live plants at the same time as the fish? I can't
remember if you had some before the fish...these will also help with
the water quality....

Gill

[NetMax]

"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> My understanding is that your tank is 17.5g. To cycle, I target about
>> 1/4
>> capacity, or 4" of fish, or 3 to 4 danios. I would not add other types
>> of
>> fish and just add 1 or 2 more danios. Mollies in particular are not
>> generally suited to the conditions which danios prosper in, and are not
>> great choices for cycling (unless it is only Mollies which allows you to
>> add
>> salt during the nitrite stage).
>
> Thanks for all your advice.
>
> Unfortunately, our shy danio was on its back on the gravel this
> morning :-(. Since that leaves us with only the leopard danio, we'll
> visit the pet shop this afternoon and pick up some more. I wonder if
> the danio's behaviour yesterday was because it wasn't well.

No worries. Fish can be very fragile during and after transport. Generally
they can become surprisingly robust after they have been well acclimated.
During that transition, some losses are normal and usually of no
consequence. Fish loss on a stable tank is worth investigating. For fish
loss on a new tank, you want to ensure that there haven't been any
contagions brought into the tank, otherwise it can be the price of a
start-up. I used to over-purchase by 10-15% but this varies according to
where they came from and the general hardiness of the fish (size= hardy and
danios are not that large ;~).

ps: I don't really take personal responsibility for a new fish purchase for
at least 2 or 3 weeks. During that transition period, they can perish from
conditions they were exposed to prior to arriving where they are now (like a
delayed reaction from being exposed to something). Just do your best and
take it in stride.

> Will stick with danios until we've cycled the tank, and will test for
> ammonia every couple of days until then. In the meantime, I'll
> continue reading all I can find.

Have fun :o) Incidentally, the ammonia levels tend to sneak up on you. You
can go from zero to *oops* very quickly, but with your fish load, it should
not be too bad. Avoid the temptation to overfeed, as this fuels the waste
products. A pinch of flakes about twice the size of their eyes, 3 times a
day should be right.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
> FishNoob