Refugium Questions/Tips

[Sean Conlon]

Howdy all,

OK....I setup my 75gal tank with a 6" DSB. Took about 6 months for all the
various stages of cycling and now everything is very smooth. The only
problem I have now is MACRO ALGAE!! Holy crap does it grow! I mean, I can
harvest on the weekend and it won't look like I did anything to it by
Thursday!!
Anyway, I bought an ETS sump and skimmer when I set up the system, but now I
went ahead and got me an EcoSystem 3012 Refugium to replace the ETS sump. I
plan on keeping the skimmer and have it only run during the day (unless I
hear a good argument otherwise)...
My question is this, does anyone on this board have a EcoSystem 3012, and if
so, could you please answer the following:

1. Do you use the bio-balls that came with it? Seems to me you'd want
nothing impeding the flow of detrius/fauna through the system....so why the
bio-balls?

2. How long are you leaving the light on?

3. Are you still using a skimmer?

4. Do you have problems with bubbles being returned to the main tank? Maybe
that's what the bio-balls are for? One of the biggest problems I have with
the ETS sump/skimmer.....bubbles galore! I couldn't figure out a way, short
of stuffing floss or screening material in the flow, to nix the bubble
issue. This, to me, is unacceptable...I dislike any point in the flow of
water to be 'mechanically' filtered.

4. Any other tips??

Thanks in advance,
Sean

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Sean,

I don't have your Ecosystem, but I do make sumps with refugiums.

If you have microbubbles in your tank coming in from beneath (sump/fuge), you'll
need to make sure you have a "bubbletrap" incorporated in your unit.

The plumbing going back up to the display tank must be glued/sealed completely,
to avoid allowing any air to be drawn in.

If you have anti-siphon holes drilled in your return lines, the holes need to be
submerged 1/2" beneath the water's surface.

Your return pump may be pointing toward a "waterfall" of water, or the return
section may be too shallow and the pump is pulling in a little air that way.
Turn the pump's intake away from the falling water, and add a 90 degree elbow to
the intake, pointing it downward to suck from the lowest point in your sump. It
needs to be 3/4" off the floor though.....

Marc


Sean Conlon wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> OK....I setup my 75gal tank with a 6" DSB. Took about 6 months for all the
> various stages of cycling and now everything is very smooth. The only
> problem I have now is MACRO ALGAE!! Holy crap does it grow! I mean, I can
> harvest on the weekend and it won't look like I did anything to it by
> Thursday!!
> Anyway, I bought an ETS sump and skimmer when I set up the system, but now I
> went ahead and got me an EcoSystem 3012 Refugium to replace the ETS sump. I
> plan on keeping the skimmer and have it only run during the day (unless I
> hear a good argument otherwise)...
> My question is this, does anyone on this board have a EcoSystem 3012, and if
> so, could you please answer the following:
>
> 1. Do you use the bio-balls that came with it? Seems to me you'd want
> nothing impeding the flow of detrius/fauna through the system....so why the
> bio-balls?
>
> 2. How long are you leaving the light on?
>
> 3. Are you still using a skimmer?
>
> 4. Do you have problems with bubbles being returned to the main tank? Maybe
> that's what the bio-balls are for? One of the biggest problems I have with
> the ETS sump/skimmer.....bubbles galore! I couldn't figure out a way, short
> of stuffing floss or screening material in the flow, to nix the bubble
> issue. This, to me, is unacceptable...I dislike any point in the flow of
> water to be 'mechanically' filtered.
>
> 4. Any other tips??
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Sean

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Sean Conlon]

Marc,

Thanks for the tips.....but, I'll be getting rid of the ETS sump this
weekend (hopefully) and I think I just made a mistake when I bought that
system. It was never designed to work in a 'natural' system, at least in my
opinion. Basically, your overflow dumps into a micron bag, then through some
floss, then back up through the pump. Well, I removed the bag and floss to
prevent deiturs from building up (ala the whole 'natural' thing) and also so
I wouldn't have to clean the damn things every weekend...hehe. Once said bag
and floss are removed there is nothing to help break up bubbles that are
created from the force of the overflow hitting the sump....I tried all kind
of gadgets to prevent the froth to no avail (a drip tray of some sort would
have worked well, but no room in sump to do properly). Another problem is
the skimmer itself...sure, ETS says "no bubbles" produced with their
skimmers output, but I beg to differ. Anyway, the thing will be history this
weekend, so hopefully no bubbles with the EcoSystem 3012. I think the algae
should pretty much provide a good surface area for the bubbles to stick too
before they get to the pump. Should give them enough time to rise to the
sirface and burst....and also the bio-balls will help to break them up. But
I am concerned about the bio-balls...again, I don't want anything impeding
the water flow. That's why I posted originally....to find out if it's ok to
remove the bio-balls and still be good with no bubbles....

Anyway....I'm blabbin'...

Thanks again,
Sean

[Marc Levenson]

If the bioballs are fully submerged, they won't cause you any problems.

Removing the sponge and micron bag would absolutely cause microbubbles. That is
why a bubble trap is so useful.

Marc


Sean Conlon wrote:

> Marc,
>
> Thanks for the tips.....but, I'll be getting rid of the ETS sump this
> weekend (hopefully) and I think I just made a mistake when I bought that
> system. It was never designed to work in a 'natural' system, at least in my
> opinion. Basically, your overflow dumps into a micron bag, then through some
> floss, then back up through the pump. Well, I removed the bag and floss to
> prevent deiturs from building up (ala the whole 'natural' thing) and also so
> I wouldn't have to clean the damn things every weekend...hehe. Once said bag
> and floss are removed there is nothing to help break up bubbles that are
> created from the force of the overflow hitting the sump....I tried all kind
> of gadgets to prevent the froth to no avail (a drip tray of some sort would
> have worked well, but no room in sump to do properly). Another problem is
> the skimmer itself...sure, ETS says "no bubbles" produced with their
> skimmers output, but I beg to differ. Anyway, the thing will be history this
> weekend, so hopefully no bubbles with the EcoSystem 3012. I think the algae
> should pretty much provide a good surface area for the bubbles to stick too
> before they get to the pump. Should give them enough time to rise to the
> sirface and burst....and also the bio-balls will help to break them up. But
> I am concerned about the bio-balls...again, I don't want anything impeding
> the water flow. That's why I posted originally....to find out if it's ok to
> remove the bio-balls and still be good with no bubbles....
>
> Anyway....I'm blabbin'...
>
> Thanks again,
> Sean

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Sean Conlon]

Care to eleborate on the bubble-trap thing? I might need to make one for the
Ecosystems 3012...heheh.

Thanks,
Sean

[Marc Levenson]

It is a group of 3 baffles, 1" apart. The center baffle is 1" off the floor of
the sump. Water will flow over the first baffle, under the second one, and over
the third one.

Check my site for sumps, you'll see the bubble trap in all of them.

They need to be securely in place, so water MUST go through them, and not around
them.

Marc


Sean Conlon wrote:

> Care to eleborate on the bubble-trap thing? I might need to make one for the
> Ecosystems 3012...heheh.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Sean Conlon]

Marc,

Very nice info on your web site.....I really like your refugium design!

Do you think I'll be OK with a 6" DSB and the refugium? Looks like you have
an inch or so in your main tank. My main reason for wanting the refugium is
to allow macro algae a spot better than the main tank to grow. My DSB is
doing fine and I'm wondering if putting 'mud' in the refugium will lead to
overkill...

Sean

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Sean,

read below...

Sean Conlon wrote:

> Marc,
>
> Very nice info on your web site.....I really like your refugium design!

Thanks. :)

> Do you think I'll be OK with a 6" DSB and the refugium?

Yes.

> Looks like you have an inch or so in your main tank.

2" of CC in my 29g. 4" of beach sand in my 55g.

> My main reason for wanting the refugium is to allow macro algae a spot better
> than the main tank to grow.

That is the exact reason for it.

> My DSB is doing fine and I'm wondering if putting 'mud' in the refugium will
> lead to overkill...

Do you mean "Miracle Mud"? I don't believe in the stuff. I've seen no reliable
proof so far that it makes any difference to the display tanks I've seen. Your
refugium needs some sand, but 1-2" is plenty, ime.

Marc


--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Sean Conlon]

Marc,

I think I'll give the 'miracle mud' a whirl since it's coming free with the
system. What are you using in yours? Aragonite? I have South Down in my main
tank, so if I decide to replace the 'miracle mud' later on I'll probably put
a few inches of SD instead. I'm going to remove the bio-balls from the
initial dumping area of the Eco 3012 and put some Live Rock to help break up
the return flow (like your refugium). But the pump area bio-balls I think
I'm going to leave in.....decisions, decisions.

Anyway, the damn thing didn't show up in the mail Friday. So, I'll proably
receive it sometime eary next week. I'ts going to be a big job setting it
up, but I think it'll work out good....I'm hoping to grow some Mangroves...

Thanks again for your input...
Sean

[Marc Levenson]

Yes, it is aragonite sand from the LFS.

Miracle Mud is very expensive, so getting it 'free' is nice. I'm pretty sure it
sells for $70 a bag.

Marc


Sean Conlon wrote:

> Marc,
>
> I think I'll give the 'miracle mud' a whirl since it's coming free with the
> system. What are you using in yours? Aragonite? I have South Down in my main
> tank, so if I decide to replace the 'miracle mud' later on I'll probably put
> a few inches of SD instead. I'm going to remove the bio-balls from the
> initial dumping area of the Eco 3012 and put some Live Rock to help break up
> the return flow (like your refugium). But the pump area bio-balls I think
> I'm going to leave in.....decisions, decisions.
>
> Anyway, the damn thing didn't show up in the mail Friday. So, I'll proably
> receive it sometime eary next week. I'ts going to be a big job setting it
> up, but I think it'll work out good....I'm hoping to grow some Mangroves...
>
> Thanks again for your input...
> Sean

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com