Calcium Test Kit Readings

[Mort]

I just wanted to see what others' experiences were reguarding their Calcium
Test Kits.

I recently bought one that was on sale at an LFS and I am unhappy with it.
The reason being is that the color change of the fluid is so gradual that it
is very difficult to tell when to stop adding the solution.

With this kit, you take a sample of water, then add 3 drops from bottle #1,
(which makes the sample look real cloudy) mix, then add 7 drops from bottle
number two (turns it real pink, almost red). According to the chart it
should be a light pink at this point but it is way off. Then you start
adding drops from bottle #3. You multiply the number of drops by 20 and
that gives you your mg/L. (which I think is the same as ppm right?)

My problem is, is that the sample never matches the color on the chart
exactly. Supposedly, it will change from light pink to violet (they give
you two colored boxes to compare it to) when the test is complete. It goes
through so many shades of purple and red and it never matches the colors on
the chart. It is impossible to get a good reading.

According to my results I appear to be somewhere between 460 and 540 ppm.
(this is where I matched the end color the closest between 23 and 27 drops)

That seems a bit high and that accuracy range is not acceptable.

I've read that the salifert kit will get you within 10mg/L.

How exactly does the salifert kit work (I mean instructions wise) is it easy
to tell where your reading is or are you doing the guessing game with the
color matching?

TIA SSL

~Mort

[Chris Taylor]

Give me your e-mail address and I'll scan the instructions from the Salifert
kit and e-mail to you. I'm quite happy with the kit.

Chris



"Mort" > wrote in message
y.com...
> I just wanted to see what others' experiences were reguarding their
Calcium
> Test Kits.
>
> I recently bought one that was on sale at an LFS and I am unhappy with it.
> The reason being is that the color change of the fluid is so gradual that
it
> is very difficult to tell when to stop adding the solution.
>
> With this kit, you take a sample of water, then add 3 drops from bottle
#1,
> (which makes the sample look real cloudy) mix, then add 7 drops from
bottle
> number two (turns it real pink, almost red). According to the chart it
> should be a light pink at this point but it is way off. Then you start
> adding drops from bottle #3. You multiply the number of drops by 20 and
> that gives you your mg/L. (which I think is the same as ppm right?)
>
> My problem is, is that the sample never matches the color on the chart
> exactly. Supposedly, it will change from light pink to violet (they give
> you two colored boxes to compare it to) when the test is complete. It
goes
> through so many shades of purple and red and it never matches the colors
on
> the chart. It is impossible to get a good reading.
>
> According to my results I appear to be somewhere between 460 and 540 ppm.
> (this is where I matched the end color the closest between 23 and 27
drops)
>
> That seems a bit high and that accuracy range is not acceptable.
>
> I've read that the salifert kit will get you within 10mg/L.
>
> How exactly does the salifert kit work (I mean instructions wise) is it
easy
> to tell where your reading is or are you doing the guessing game with the
> color matching?
>
> TIA SSL
>
> ~Mort
>
>
>

[Pszemol]

"Mort" > wrote in message y.com...
> With this kit, you take a sample of water, then add 3 drops from bottle #1,
> (which makes the sample look real cloudy) mix, then add 7 drops from bottle
> number two (turns it real pink, almost red). According to the chart it
> should be a light pink at this point but it is way off. Then you start
> adding drops from bottle #3. You multiply the number of drops by 20 and
> that gives you your mg/L. (which I think is the same as ppm right?)
>
> My problem is, is that the sample never matches the color on the chart
> exactly. Supposedly, it will change from light pink to violet (they give
> you two colored boxes to compare it to) when the test is complete. It goes
> through so many shades of purple and red and it never matches the colors on
> the chart. It is impossible to get a good reading.

I am using SeaChem calcium test and they also use titrate method.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4397&N=1+113133&in_merch=1
The point the measurment is ended for SeaChem test is when the color of the
sample turns blue (originaly pink). The transition is rapid (one drop or less).
You may note the amount you added and add more - if the coloro does not change
the noted value is your reading.

I am also reading high calcium with low alkalinity - I use SeaLab #28.

[Pszemol]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message ...
> I am using SeaChem calcium test and they also use titrate method.
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4397&N=1+113133&in_merch=1
> The point the measurment is ended for SeaChem test is when the color of the
> sample turns blue (originaly pink). The transition is rapid (one drop or less).
> You may note the amount you added and add more - if the coloro does not change
> the noted value is your reading.

Here you will find *.pdf file with complete, original instructions:
http://www.seachem.com/en_support/kit_pdfs/0920.040-Calcium.pdf

[wolfhedd]

i like saliferts, it works ok, but color charts always have a problem.
sound like salifert is your best bet however. it does the WHAM change from
pink, to blueish, and it is assumed that the WHAM change it what is to be
assumed the measure point. others wonder if you keep dropping solution
until its totally clear blue, which in my opinion will give inaccurate
results. Im not sure about sea chems, but saliferts is GOOD.

wolfhedd

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> > I am using SeaChem calcium test and they also use titrate method.
> >
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4397&N=1+113133&in_merch=1
> > The point the measurment is ended for SeaChem test is when the color of
the
> > sample turns blue (originaly pink). The transition is rapid (one drop or
less).
> > You may note the amount you added and add more - if the coloro does not
change
> > the noted value is your reading.
>
> Here you will find *.pdf file with complete, original instructions:
> http://www.seachem.com/en_support/kit_pdfs/0920.040-Calcium.pdf

[David McKay]

I use and like the Seachem test kit. As others have said, it's a titration
style kit meaning that you add drops until the colour changes. My experience
is that the colour change is rapid and distinct with this kit. Plus, the kit
supposedly lasts for 150 tests (I've only used it about 6 times so far). The
kit also comes with a standarized calcium solution so that you can test its
accuracy. I tried that, and it was bang on.

Don't know about the Salifert kit for calcium, but the Seachem has my vote.

Regards,

Dave.

"wolfhedd" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> i like saliferts, it works ok, but color charts always have a problem.
> sound like salifert is your best bet however. it does the WHAM change
from
> pink, to blueish, and it is assumed that the WHAM change it what is to be
> assumed the measure point. others wonder if you keep dropping solution
> until its totally clear blue, which in my opinion will give inaccurate
> results. Im not sure about sea chems, but saliferts is GOOD.
>
> wolfhedd
>
> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > I am using SeaChem calcium test and they also use titrate method.
> > >
>
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4397&N=1+11313
3&in_merch=1
> > > The point the measurment is ended for SeaChem test is when the color
of
> the
> > > sample turns blue (originaly pink). The transition is rapid (one drop
or
> less).
> > > You may note the amount you added and add more - if the coloro does
not
> change
> > > the noted value is your reading.
> >
> > Here you will find *.pdf file with complete, original instructions:
> > http://www.seachem.com/en_support/kit_pdfs/0920.040-Calcium.pdf
>
>

[Mort]

I have a follow up question. This is prolly a good one for Boomer but I'll
throw it out there for everyone.

For these titration kits, has anyone ever tried adding multiple drops at
once?

For example, in the calcium test kit, you are looking at at least 20 drops
of the third solution before your color will change. (assuming your Ca is
close to where it should be)

The directions say, add one drop, mix. Add another drop, mix. etc etc...

I did follow those directions, however, what would the effect be if you
added 15 or 20 drops right off the bat, mixed, and then did one drop at a
time?

Would it still be the exact same reading if you did it one drop at a time?

~Mort

[Pszemol]

"David McKay" > wrote in message le.rogers.com...
> The kit also comes with a standarized calcium solution so that
> you can test its accuracy. I tried that, and it was bang on.
>
> Don't know about the Salifert kit for calcium, but the Seachem has my vote.

Does Salifert come with reference sample?

[Chris Taylor]

I usually empty about half the Syringe into the vial right off, then go drop
by drop.



"Mort" > wrote in message
y.com...
> I have a follow up question. This is prolly a good one for Boomer but
I'll
> throw it out there for everyone.
>
> For these titration kits, has anyone ever tried adding multiple drops at
> once?
>
> For example, in the calcium test kit, you are looking at at least 20 drops
> of the third solution before your color will change. (assuming your Ca is
> close to where it should be)
>
> The directions say, add one drop, mix. Add another drop, mix. etc etc...
>
> I did follow those directions, however, what would the effect be if you
> added 15 or 20 drops right off the bat, mixed, and then did one drop at a
> time?
>
> Would it still be the exact same reading if you did it one drop at a time?
>
> ~Mort
>
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

If you are using the Salifert kit, you can add half the solution in the syringe,
shake the vial for 20 seconds, then continue drop by drop. When you color
changes to blue, give it another 20 seconds or so to see if it stays blue. If
it begins to look pinkish-purple again, add another drop to make it officially
blue. That is your true result.

ppm is not the same as meq/L.

I love the Salifert kits for Alk, Ca, PO4, and Nitrates.

Marc


Mort wrote:

> I have a follow up question. This is prolly a good one for Boomer but I'll
> throw it out there for everyone.
>
> For these titration kits, has anyone ever tried adding multiple drops at
> once?
>
> For example, in the calcium test kit, you are looking at at least 20 drops
> of the third solution before your color will change. (assuming your Ca is
> close to where it should be)
>
> The directions say, add one drop, mix. Add another drop, mix. etc etc...
>
> I did follow those directions, however, what would the effect be if you
> added 15 or 20 drops right off the bat, mixed, and then did one drop at a
> time?
>
> Would it still be the exact same reading if you did it one drop at a time?
>
> ~Mort

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Chris Taylor]

Nope

Salifert relies on distinct colour change, no ref sample required.

Chris

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "David McKay" > wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
> > The kit also comes with a standarized calcium solution so that
> > you can test its accuracy. I tried that, and it was bang on.
> >
> > Don't know about the Salifert kit for calcium, but the Seachem has my
vote.
>
> Does Salifert come with reference sample?

[Pszemol]

"Chris Taylor" > wrote in message ...
> Salifert relies on distinct colour change, no ref sample required.

We misunderstood each other, probably :-)
Reference sample is not "requred" and it is not used
normaly when you do regular test. It is there just for
you to be sure test is working right. In my opinion
it is very big benefit to have the way to verify/calibrate
the test, especialy when it gives some unusual result
on your tank sample.

Salifert is probably based on the same chemical reaction.
I guess it based on tintrate method and color change.
But with time, all chemicals change the content (due to
solven/water evaporation from vials, oxydation with air
temperature of storage) so after couple months passes you
will not be sure if your test is telling you the truth or not.

The reference sample in the test kit stays closed for
the most of the time and it is buffered solution so it
suppose not to change much over time.

If I have to chose the test with or without the reference
sample I will always pick the one with the reference.

[Chris Taylor]

You're right, I misunderstood.

In short, no, there is no reference sample in the kit I purchased in the UK.

Regards


Chris



"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "Chris Taylor" > wrote in message
...
> > Salifert relies on distinct colour change, no ref sample required.
>
> We misunderstood each other, probably :-)
> Reference sample is not "requred" and it is not used
> normaly when you do regular test. It is there just for
> you to be sure test is working right. In my opinion
> it is very big benefit to have the way to verify/calibrate
> the test, especialy when it gives some unusual result
> on your tank sample.
>
> Salifert is probably based on the same chemical reaction.
> I guess it based on tintrate method and color change.
> But with time, all chemicals change the content (due to
> solven/water evaporation from vials, oxydation with air
> temperature of storage) so after couple months passes you
> will not be sure if your test is telling you the truth or not.
>
> The reference sample in the test kit stays closed for
> the most of the time and it is buffered solution so it
> suppose not to change much over time.
>
> If I have to chose the test with or without the reference
> sample I will always pick the one with the reference.

[Marc Levenson]

No, it doesn't container a reference test. The kits are good for one year. Each solution has a serial
number/reference number, so it there is some doubt, it can be double-checked with Habib at Salifert.

Marc

Pszemol wrote:

> "Chris Taylor" > wrote in message ...
> > Salifert relies on distinct colour change, no ref sample required.
>
> We misunderstood each other, probably :-)
> Reference sample is not "requred" and it is not used
> normaly when you do regular test. It is there just for
> you to be sure test is working right. In my opinion
> it is very big benefit to have the way to verify/calibrate
> the test, especialy when it gives some unusual result
> on your tank sample.
>
> Salifert is probably based on the same chemical reaction.
> I guess it based on tintrate method and color change.
> But with time, all chemicals change the content (due to
> solven/water evaporation from vials, oxydation with air
> temperature of storage) so after couple months passes you
> will not be sure if your test is telling you the truth or not.
>
> The reference sample in the test kit stays closed for
> the most of the time and it is buffered solution so it
> suppose not to change much over time.
>
> If I have to chose the test with or without the reference
> sample I will always pick the one with the reference.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[wolfhedd]

that would be one more drop more than i assumed or two or three. there was
a discussion thread on this CA test at the aqualink web forum i think it was
that said the "Wham" change(meaning, the second it goes to blue, even though
it doesnt end up totally blue and may slide back to pinkish)contradicts the
instructions by like 5 to 10 drops at times because the instructions says
when it turns Clear blue, which is like in some case 10 drops after the
initial change, and then theres that blue color that your talking about that
is the first stable reaction from the pink, then there is the blue that i am
talking about which i believe was the general assumption of the proper drop
to go by according to that thread, the drop that does the "Bang, Its Blue"
Drop, even though it may slump back to pinkish. However, i think i know
what your thinking, as a scientist would think, when the water loses its
buffer capacity, it STAYS blue right? that makes more sense to me too.

wolfhedd.

dont worry guys, the salifert is easy, and i would stir it for like 20
seconds as well if you add half initially because that stuff is hard to mix
with H2O thouroughly.


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> If you are using the Salifert kit, you can add half the solution in the
syringe,
> shake the vial for 20 seconds, then continue drop by drop. When you
color
> changes to blue, give it another 20 seconds or so to see if it stays blue.
If
> it begins to look pinkish-purple again, add another drop to make it
officially
> blue. That is your true result.
>
> ppm is not the same as meq/L.
>
> I love the Salifert kits for Alk, Ca, PO4, and Nitrates.
>
> Marc
>
>
> Mort wrote:
>
> > I have a follow up question. This is prolly a good one for Boomer but
I'll
> > throw it out there for everyone.
> >
> > For these titration kits, has anyone ever tried adding multiple drops at
> > once?
> >
> > For example, in the calcium test kit, you are looking at at least 20
drops
> > of the third solution before your color will change. (assuming your Ca
is
> > close to where it should be)
> >
> > The directions say, add one drop, mix. Add another drop, mix. etc
etc...
> >
> > I did follow those directions, however, what would the effect be if you
> > added 15 or 20 drops right off the bat, mixed, and then did one drop at
a
> > time?
> >
> > Would it still be the exact same reading if you did it one drop at a
time?
> >
> > ~Mort
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Pszemol]

But you are buying this stuff from the store, who knows how long do they
kept them on the shelf, or in what condition they transported it...
Did it freeze in the truck? Was it exposed to very high temperatures?
You do not know... The expiration date is not enough. If you want to be
sure the best way is the reference sample you can compare readings to.

Of course it is not a must, but if I have to pick between Salifert Calcium test
and SeaChem Calcium test I pick SeaChem for having the reference
sample. The price for both is the same at www.marinedepot.com :-)

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message ...
> No, it doesn't container a reference test. The kits are good for one year. Each solution has a serial
> number/reference number, so it there is some doubt, it can be double-checked with Habib at Salifert.
>
> Marc
>
> Pszemol wrote:
>
> > "Chris Taylor" > wrote in message ...
> > > Salifert relies on distinct colour change, no ref sample required.
> >
> > We misunderstood each other, probably :-)
> > Reference sample is not "requred" and it is not used
> > normaly when you do regular test. It is there just for
> > you to be sure test is working right. In my opinion
> > it is very big benefit to have the way to verify/calibrate
> > the test, especialy when it gives some unusual result
> > on your tank sample.
> >
> > Salifert is probably based on the same chemical reaction.
> > I guess it based on tintrate method and color change.
> > But with time, all chemicals change the content (due to
> > solven/water evaporation from vials, oxydation with air
> > temperature of storage) so after couple months passes you
> > will not be sure if your test is telling you the truth or not.
> >
> > The reference sample in the test kit stays closed for
> > the most of the time and it is buffered solution so it
> > suppose not to change much over time.
> >
> > If I have to chose the test with or without the reference
> > sample I will always pick the one with the reference.
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Mort]

"Chris Taylor" > wrote in message
...
> Give me your e-mail address and I'll scan the instructions from the
Salifert
> kit and e-mail to you. I'm quite happy with the kit.
>
> Chris
>
>



Hi Chris, I did try to respond to you with my email address but it did not
go through for obvious reasons. I think I got the idea though.

Thanks anyway. =)

~Mort

>
> "Mort" > wrote in message
> y.com...
> > I just wanted to see what others' experiences were reguarding their
> Calcium
> > Test Kits.
> >
> > I recently bought one that was on sale at an LFS and I am unhappy with
it.
> > The reason being is that the color change of the fluid is so gradual
that
> it
> > is very difficult to tell when to stop adding the solution.
> >
> > With this kit, you take a sample of water, then add 3 drops from bottle
> #1,
> > (which makes the sample look real cloudy) mix, then add 7 drops from
> bottle
> > number two (turns it real pink, almost red). According to the chart it
> > should be a light pink at this point but it is way off. Then you start
> > adding drops from bottle #3. You multiply the number of drops by 20 and
> > that gives you your mg/L. (which I think is the same as ppm right?)
> >
> > My problem is, is that the sample never matches the color on the chart
> > exactly. Supposedly, it will change from light pink to violet (they
give
> > you two colored boxes to compare it to) when the test is complete. It
> goes
> > through so many shades of purple and red and it never matches the colors
> on
> > the chart. It is impossible to get a good reading.
> >
> > According to my results I appear to be somewhere between 460 and 540
ppm.
> > (this is where I matched the end color the closest between 23 and 27
> drops)
> >
> > That seems a bit high and that accuracy range is not acceptable.
> >
> > I've read that the salifert kit will get you within 10mg/L.
> >
> > How exactly does the salifert kit work (I mean instructions wise) is it
> easy
> > to tell where your reading is or are you doing the guessing game with
the
> > color matching?
> >
> > TIA SSL
> >
> > ~Mort
> >
> >
> >
>
>