Sump volume and recommended pump discharge

[Pszemol]

Have you found any table on the net with some recommendation
for pump discharge, sump volume for specific tank sizes?

I am ready to upgrade my 30gallons minireef setup and add sump.
Ideally I would like to remove all internal powerheads and
relay with all water circulation on one, external water pump.
Not counting skimmer pump, of course. Need expert advice...

I am thinking about what will be the best sump size, I know
the bigger is better, but what are general rules in that
matter? And what about the pump? I was thinking also about
spliting 3/4" return line with SCWD device but I am not sure
if this is not an overkill for 30g reef... What do you think?
As a return lines I would like to use two black pipes
hanging from the back of my tank. They call it "Lifegard
Customflow Water System". Also, I am looking for the best
overflow box I can get for my system since my tank is not drilled.

Goals I want to target are (in that order of priority):
- maximum water agitation
- maximum water volume increase
- minimum heat transfer from pumps to water column
- minimum sight destruction with tank internal devices
- minimum noise generated
- minimum electric power consumption

Any ideas and recommendation highly appreciated.

[Marc Levenson]

That's tough on a 30g.

The ideal sump would be 150g for the 30g tank. Your tank would be a breeze to
care for, with that massive water volume. However, it is also overkill. I have
a 14g sump/refugium under my 29g, and I'm using a Mag 7 with a SCWD closed-loop,
plus the return line from a Mag 5, plus one powerhead.

Still could use more current, imho.

Remember if you only have one pump, and it fails, your tank is in trouble until
you can notice the issue and resolve it.

Marc

Pszemol wrote:

> Have you found any table on the net with some recommendation
> for pump discharge, sump volume for specific tank sizes?
>
> I am ready to upgrade my 30gallons minireef setup and add sump.
> Ideally I would like to remove all internal powerheads and
> relay with all water circulation on one, external water pump.
> Not counting skimmer pump, of course. Need expert advice...
>
> I am thinking about what will be the best sump size, I know
> the bigger is better, but what are general rules in that
> matter? And what about the pump? I was thinking also about
> spliting 3/4" return line with SCWD device but I am not sure
> if this is not an overkill for 30g reef... What do you think?
> As a return lines I would like to use two black pipes
> hanging from the back of my tank. They call it "Lifegard
> Customflow Water System". Also, I am looking for the best
> overflow box I can get for my system since my tank is not drilled.
>
> Goals I want to target are (in that order of priority):
> - maximum water agitation
> - maximum water volume increase
> - minimum heat transfer from pumps to water column
> - minimum sight destruction with tank internal devices
> - minimum noise generated
> - minimum electric power consumption
>
> Any ideas and recommendation highly appreciated.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Pszemol]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message ...
> That's tough on a 30g.
>
> The ideal sump would be 150g for the 30g tank.
> Your tank would be a breeze to care for, with that massive water volume.

That would be great! But were I would hide my sump? :-))) I would have
to plumb it probably in my apartment's storage/basement area :-)))

But more seriously...
I think the maximum size would be determined with the space inside my
tank stand. Probably decreased a little if I go with external return pump.
Have to have some room to hook up the pump then...

> However, it is also overkill.
> I have a 14g sump/refugium under my 29g,
> and I'm using a Mag 7 with a SCWD closed-loop,

How often your squid is switching from side to side with MAG7?
Is it very noisy?

> plus the return line from a Mag 5, plus one powerhead.

Is Mag 5 enough for a return pump for you? I was thinking about a pump
of type like Iwaki or BlueLine, 800gph or something in this range...
I think I will loose some flow on junctions, elbows, SCWD and so on.

> Still could use more current, imho.

Me too, I see some film gathering on the water surface - I could definitely
use more water current! I have two powerheads now in the middle
blowing to the both sides of the tank (Penguin 550 and 1140, together
they give 145+300 gph. I have SeaClone skimmer with MaxiJet 1200
(295gph) and recently I replaced Emperor 400 (running empty, no weels,
400gph) with CPR HOB refugium driven with Rio 400 (145gph) and
I am totaly NOT happy with this change. Looks like I was previously
lacking water skimming/agitation already and with lowered flow during
the last month my tank water quality is declining. It is probably because
I did not have time to really start refugium going - I did not put any light
over it nor added macroalgae, but I already do not like this idea...
So my recently purchased refugium is for sale :-) if anybody wants it
and I am adding the sump.
I am looking for a pump giving 145+300+400=845pgh or more
at 3-4 feet. I account for incorporating SeaClone withoriginal maxijet in
new sump, or replacing it with a one designed for sump installation.

> Remember if you only have one pump, and it fails, your tank is in
> trouble until you can notice the issue and resolve it.

Good point. Have to rethink it. How do you deal with a heater in the sump?
Your SCWD will make water move, but heater will not affect the tank if
your MAG 5 fails...

Thanks for the interest in my post.

[Marc Levenson]

Pszemol wrote:

> That would be great! But were I would hide my sump? :-))) I would have
> to plumb it probably in my apartment's storage/basement area :-)))
>
> But more seriously...
> I think the maximum size would be determined with the space inside my
> tank stand. Probably decreased a little if I go with external return pump.
> Have to have some room to hook up the pump then...

Exactly. In your case, go with a submerged pump instead.

> How often your squid is switching from side to side with MAG7?
> Is it very noisy?

No, it is very quiet, and switches about every 7 to 8 seconds. Here's the webpage about it.

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/closedloop.html

> Is Mag 5 enough for a return pump for you? I was thinking about a pump
> of type like Iwaki or BlueLine, 800gph or something in this range...
> I think I will loose some flow on junctions, elbows, SCWD and so on.

The Mag 5 is perfect for the overflow box I built originally. If I ever build a new one (I
doubt it), I could get a higher rated pump.

The Mag 5 goes straight into a flexible 3/4" tubing. That is connected to rigid PVC near
the top of the tank, with one elbow to point toward the front of the tank. Then two more
elbows to point it into the water and across the tank (in that order).

> Me too, I see some film gathering on the water surface -

Once you incorporate a sump, you'll no longer see surface scum because it flows out of the
tank through the overflow box.


> I could definitely
> use more water current! I have two powerheads now in the middle
> blowing to the both sides of the tank (Penguin 550 and 1140, together
> they give 145+300 gph. I have SeaClone skimmer with MaxiJet 1200
> (295gph) and recently I replaced Emperor 400 (running empty, no weels,
> 400gph) with CPR HOB refugium driven with Rio 400 (145gph) and
> I am totaly NOT happy with this change. Looks like I was previously
> lacking water skimming/agitation already and with lowered flow during
> the last month my tank water quality is declining. It is probably because
> I did not have time to really start refugium going - I did not put any light
> over it nor added macroalgae, but I already do not like this idea...
> So my recently purchased refugium is for sale :-) if anybody wants it
> and I am adding the sump.
> I am looking for a pump giving 145+300+400=845pgh or more
> at 3-4 feet. I account for incorporating SeaClone withoriginal maxijet in
> new sump, or replacing it with a one designed for sump installation.

You'll probably want a Mag 9.5, since you'll be going 4' up and into a SCWD, plus the
related elbows to get it into the tank. I'd recommend you add a bleed off valve to
redirect some of the water into the sump in case your tank can't drain fast enough:

http://www.melevsreef.com/return.jpg

> > Remember if you only have one pump, and it fails, your tank is in
> > trouble until you can notice the issue and resolve it.
>
> Good point. Have to rethink it. How do you deal with a heater in the sump?
> Your SCWD will make water move, but heater will not affect the tank if
> your MAG 5 fails...

If the pump fails during the daytime, the lights are on. (MOF, this week I removed my
little fan over the sump because I thought it wasn't necessary any longer, but the tank
reached 85F the next day!... the fan is back on again.) If it turns off at night, it may
drop some, but not too much because the water won't be running down to the sump any longer.
That is a natural water cooler, ime. If that pump fails completely and I've got nothing to
replace it with, I'll just move the heater up temporarily.

Marc


--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com