Cool-running submersed powerheads (comparison)

[Pszemol]

I have just review data of power consumption for several powerheads
and I am finding interesting results... Look below:

Model Consumption Max Flow Flow/watts
(in watts) gph gph/W
MP400 5 106 21.20
MP600 7.5 160 21.33
MP900 8.5 230 27.05
MP1200 20 295 14.75

Penguin 550 8 145 18.13
Penguin 660 9 170 18.89
Penguin 1140 11 300 27.27

Mag Drive 1 6 80 13.33
Mag Drive 1.5 9 140 15.56
Mag Drive 1.9 19 190 10.00
Mag Drive 2 24 250 10.41
Mag Drive 3 35 250 7.14
Mag Drive 5 45 500 11.11
Mag Drive 7 70 700 10.00
Mag Drive 9.5 93 950 10.21
Mag-Drive 12 110 1200 10.91
Mag-Drive 18 145 1800 12.41
Mag-Drive 24 265 2400 9.06

I am using "maximum" water flow which is given for the
situation the pump is working without head as a powerhead
inside the tank or in the closed loop system...

It looks like the "best powerhead" acording to opinions of users
(MaxiJet 1200) is cosuming almost twice the power consumed by the
Penguin 1140 which gives stronger flow. Knowing that when powerhead
is fully submerged almost all electric power delivered to it is
converted to heat it looks like the Maxi-Jet 1200 and MAGs are the
most effective IN RISING THE TEMPERATURE OF WATER IN THE TANK...

The coolest pumps with the best consumption/flow index over
27gph/W are Maxi-Jet 900 and Penguin 1140...

Currently I am using two MaxiJet 1200 in my tank, one as a water
agitator and the 2nd as a skimmer driver, but now I will look
for ways to replace them with some more effective designs...
I wanted to replace powerheads with one MAG pump in the sump,
but it looks like with the index around 10gph/W MAG pumps are
best HEATERS not the coolest pumps :-)))

Unfortunatelly the Penguing powerheads have a rim around the
outlet which will make it difficult to connect to my skimmer
or too weak to be used as the return pump from the sump...

Is there a way to connect outlets from two or more pumps to
create bigger water flow keeping the gph/W efficiency of the
original pumps? If I take 3 Penguins and link them together
somehow, will I get a "pump" consuming 33W and giving 900gph?

Guys with plumbing experience - I am calling you to the blackboard :-)
Maybe you know a better pumps which can be used as powerheads or
return pumps with smaller wattage consumption per gallong of flow?

[Pszemol]

I have added Rio pumps to the comparison.
What other pump manufacturer is worth adding here
to make my picture more complete?

Model Consumption Max Flow Flow/watts
(in watts) gph gph/W
MP400 5 106 21.20
MP600 7.5 160 21.33
MP900 8.5 230 27.05
MP1200 20 295 14.75

Penguin 550 8 145 18.13
Penguin 660 9 170 18.89
Penguin 1140 11 300 27.27

Mag Drive 1 6 80 13.33
Mag Drive 1.5 9 140 15.56
Mag Drive 1.9 19 190 10.00
Mag Drive 2 24 250 10.41
Mag Drive 3 35 250 7.14
Mag Drive 5 45 500 11.11
Mag Drive 7 70 700 10.00
Mag Drive 9.5 93 950 10.21
Mag-Drive 12 110 1200 10.91
Mag-Drive 18 145 1800 12.41
Mag-Drive 24 265 2400 9.06

Rio 50 5.3 69 13.02
Rio 90 2.8 85 30.35
Rio 180 3.4 120 35.29
Rio 200 6 140 23.33
Rio 400 6.5 145 22.31
Rio 600 9.5 200 21.05
Rio 800 12 211 17.58
Rio 1100 22 300 13.64
Rio 1400 27 375 13.89
Rio 1700 23 642 27.91
Rio 2100 25 692 27.68
Rio 2500 55 748 13.60
Rio 3100 73 900 12.33
Rio 4100 110 1384 12.58

Looks like Rio 90, Rio 180, Rio 1700 and Rio 2100 are worth
considering in regards to amount of heat produced per one
gallon of water pumped out. Bigger ones can be used as returns.
But if I remember correctly, people complain about their reliability.

[Jim Bash]

I knew there mas a reason I liked MJ 900s! Thanks for posting this.

BTW, I think of MJ and Penguin as powerheads, Mags (and Rios, etc) as
pumps. Not sure what the distinction should be (max head?), but I've
never considered a Mag for current, just returns or closed loops.

jim b

[Pszemol]

"Jim Bash" > wrote in message ...
> I knew there mas a reason I liked MJ 900s! Thanks for posting this.

Yes, it looks like this one is the best from all maxi-jets.

> BTW, I think of MJ and Penguin as powerheads, Mags (and Rios, etc) as
> pumps. Not sure what the distinction should be (max head?), but I've
> never considered a Mag for current, just returns or closed loops.

They all are just submersible water pumps and can be
considered as heaters when submersed in the water column.
Regardless of the purpose you use them: powerhead or return pump.

[Mort]

> Is there a way to connect outlets from two or more pumps to
> create bigger water flow keeping the gph/W efficiency of the
> original pumps? If I take 3 Penguins and link them together
> somehow, will I get a "pump" consuming 33W and giving 900gph?


If I am understanding you correctly, you dont need to link them together.
If you want to use them/it as a return pump, just let each powerhead run on
it's own, each with it's own return line and that will give you your 900 gph
@ 33W. (assuming your figures are including the head pressure)

HTH

~Mort

[Pszemol]

"Mort" > wrote in message y.com...
> If I am understanding you correctly, you dont need to link them together.
> If you want to use them/it as a return pump, just let each powerhead run on
> it's own, each with it's own return line and that will give you your 900 gph
> @ 33W. (assuming your figures are including the head pressure)

No, the flow rate is with no head pressure for ALL pumps listed.
And my idea was to put SQWD on my return outlet - this is the
reason I want to link my pumps. I wanted to buy MAG pump for return,
but it looks like it is heat generator.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You're right about questioning the Rio quality. I had a Rio pump for my
protein skimmer and it wouldn't start after I plugged it back in following a
water change. The manufacturer gave me zero support. They never replied
to my e-mails and they list no phone numbers to call in their advertising.
And the internet retailer I bought it from said Rio pumps are prone to this
kind of malfunction. They said to give it a good hit to start it. Hardly a
solution to live with. I don't know about the quality of the other pumps
you tested but my MAG pumps work flawlessly and seem rock solid. I'll live
with a hotter running pump to get the reliability.

Also is the heat dissipated going to really make a difference in the big
scheme of things? In a big tank the difference in heat between pumps may be
minimal And will you get the flow rate you need from those cooler pumps
when you have several feet of head pressure?

Just putting in my two cents worth.

-Jonathan


"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "Mort" > wrote in message
y.com...
> > If I am understanding you correctly, you dont need to link them
together.
> > If you want to use them/it as a return pump, just let each powerhead run
on
> > it's own, each with it's own return line and that will give you your 900
gph
> > @ 33W. (assuming your figures are including the head pressure)
>
> No, the flow rate is with no head pressure for ALL pumps listed.
> And my idea was to put SQWD on my return outlet - this is the
> reason I want to link my pumps. I wanted to buy MAG pump for return,
> but it looks like it is heat generator.

[Pszemol]

"Jonathan Cohen" > wrote in message ...
> You're right about questioning the Rio quality. I had a Rio pump for my
> protein skimmer and it wouldn't start after I plugged it back in following a
> water change. The manufacturer gave me zero support. They never replied
> to my e-mails and they list no phone numbers to call in their advertising.
> And the internet retailer I bought it from said Rio pumps are prone to this
> kind of malfunction. They said to give it a good hit to start it. Hardly a
> solution to live with. I don't know about the quality of the other pumps
> you tested but my MAG pumps work flawlessly and seem rock solid. I'll live
> with a hotter running pump to get the reliability.

I know, reliability is a quite a different story.
I did not say "dont buy pump X" :) I just compared them based on gph/W index.

> Also is the heat dissipated going to really make a difference in the big
> scheme of things? In a big tank the difference in heat between pumps may
> be minimal

Yes, it makes big difference. Recently I added MaxiJet 1200 near the
water surface to cope with oily scum on the surface and I see a noticable
temperature increase. Think about it - it is like you submerse almost
20W heater in the water and turn it on without thermostate 24/7.
Of course it will not be whole 20W goind into heat because some of this
energy will be used to move water, but if one pump moves 300 gallons
of water per hour using 20W and other does THE SAME using 11W then
you have just waster 9W stright to rise the temperature in the tank...
You will have 3-4 circulation powerheads in the water column and
the differenece will multiply - 30W constanly on in your tank will
generate significant temperature rise in my opinion.

> And will you get the flow rate you need from those cooler pumps
> when you have several feet of head pressure?

That is another question to be answered... When next time I will have
to rebuild and recompile my whole Windows CE project that I was working
on today and will have again 20 minutes of spare time
I will compare pumps at 4 feet head pressure flow per watt :-)))
I have to check if pumps differ much with flow at 4 feet when they
have flow at zero level the same... do they? I do not have this data.

[Henry Etteldorf]

> Is there a way to connect outlets from two or more pumps to
> create bigger water flow keeping the gph/W efficiency of the
> original pumps? If I take 3 Penguins and link them together
> somehow, will I get a "pump" consuming 33W and giving 900gph?

You could connect these to a plenum. Use several "T"s to connect all three
pumps to one output. Kind of like a gang valve for air lines. You will
want the final output to be at least 3 time the area of the individual
outputs from the pump. (This will reduce the head pressure to approximately
what each pump would see if you plumbed it separate).

You may have problems with flow rates because the smaller pumps are likely
to have more off a falloff with added headpressure. Also if one of the
pumps stop you will be backfeeding water through it from the other pumps.

You would likely be better of with either system with 1 pump. If you want
redundancy setup a whole second system.

If you already have most of the equipment, give it a try.

Have Fun.

[erik]

Decreased flow rate translates into increased current consumption so I
assume that these will all use more current (i.e. higher wattage) as
the head increases and flow decreases.



Erik

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:06:51 GMT, "Pszemol" >
wrote:

>"Jonathan Cohen" > wrote in message ...
>> You're right about questioning the Rio quality. I had a Rio pump for my
>> protein skimmer and it wouldn't start after I plugged it back in following a
>> water change. The manufacturer gave me zero support. They never replied
>> to my e-mails and they list no phone numbers to call in their advertising.
>> And the internet retailer I bought it from said Rio pumps are prone to this
>> kind of malfunction. They said to give it a good hit to start it. Hardly a
>> solution to live with. I don't know about the quality of the other pumps
>> you tested but my MAG pumps work flawlessly and seem rock solid. I'll live
>> with a hotter running pump to get the reliability.
>
>I know, reliability is a quite a different story.
>I did not say "dont buy pump X" :) I just compared them based on gph/W index.
>
>> Also is the heat dissipated going to really make a difference in the big
>> scheme of things? In a big tank the difference in heat between pumps may
>> be minimal
>
>Yes, it makes big difference. Recently I added MaxiJet 1200 near the
>water surface to cope with oily scum on the surface and I see a noticable
>temperature increase. Think about it - it is like you submerse almost
>20W heater in the water and turn it on without thermostate 24/7.
>Of course it will not be whole 20W goind into heat because some of this
>energy will be used to move water, but if one pump moves 300 gallons
>of water per hour using 20W and other does THE SAME using 11W then
>you have just waster 9W stright to rise the temperature in the tank...
>You will have 3-4 circulation powerheads in the water column and
>the differenece will multiply - 30W constanly on in your tank will
>generate significant temperature rise in my opinion.
>
>> And will you get the flow rate you need from those cooler pumps
>> when you have several feet of head pressure?
>
>That is another question to be answered... When next time I will have
>to rebuild and recompile my whole Windows CE project that I was working
>on today and will have again 20 minutes of spare time
>I will compare pumps at 4 feet head pressure flow per watt :-)))
>I have to check if pumps differ much with flow at 4 feet when they
>have flow at zero level the same... do they? I do not have this data.

[Pszemol]

I think that the opposite is true but I am going to check this out.

"erik" > wrote in message ...
> Decreased flow rate translates into increased current consumption so I
> assume that these will all use more current (i.e. higher wattage) as
> the head increases and flow decreases.
>
>
>
> Erik
>
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:06:51 GMT, "Pszemol" >
> wrote:
>
> >"Jonathan Cohen" > wrote in message ...
> >> You're right about questioning the Rio quality. I had a Rio pump for my
> >> protein skimmer and it wouldn't start after I plugged it back in following a
> >> water change. The manufacturer gave me zero support. They never replied
> >> to my e-mails and they list no phone numbers to call in their advertising.
> >> And the internet retailer I bought it from said Rio pumps are prone to this
> >> kind of malfunction. They said to give it a good hit to start it. Hardly a
> >> solution to live with. I don't know about the quality of the other pumps
> >> you tested but my MAG pumps work flawlessly and seem rock solid. I'll live
> >> with a hotter running pump to get the reliability.
> >
> >I know, reliability is a quite a different story.
> >I did not say "dont buy pump X" :) I just compared them based on gph/W index.
> >
> >> Also is the heat dissipated going to really make a difference in the big
> >> scheme of things? In a big tank the difference in heat between pumps may
> >> be minimal
> >
> >Yes, it makes big difference. Recently I added MaxiJet 1200 near the
> >water surface to cope with oily scum on the surface and I see a noticable
> >temperature increase. Think about it - it is like you submerse almost
> >20W heater in the water and turn it on without thermostate 24/7.
> >Of course it will not be whole 20W goind into heat because some of this
> >energy will be used to move water, but if one pump moves 300 gallons
> >of water per hour using 20W and other does THE SAME using 11W then
> >you have just waster 9W stright to rise the temperature in the tank...
> >You will have 3-4 circulation powerheads in the water column and
> >the differenece will multiply - 30W constanly on in your tank will
> >generate significant temperature rise in my opinion.
> >
> >> And will you get the flow rate you need from those cooler pumps
> >> when you have several feet of head pressure?
> >
> >That is another question to be answered... When next time I will have
> >to rebuild and recompile my whole Windows CE project that I was working
> >on today and will have again 20 minutes of spare time
> >I will compare pumps at 4 feet head pressure flow per watt :-)))
> >I have to check if pumps differ much with flow at 4 feet when they
> >have flow at zero level the same... do they? I do not have this data.
>

[Quibz]

Huh???
Hasn't anyone heard of a the Tunze Turbelle Stream 6000/6100's?

Model 6000 15w 1850gph 123gph/watt
Model 6100 45w 3175gph 70gph/watt

These literally blow all the others away!
Flow and pulse rates variable/controllable to boot.

I had to go back and check to make sure this post wasn't dated 11/2002
or 2001.

I bought 2 6100's and the 1794 controller and now I see water movement
is as important as a good skimmer or ca reactor.


Quibz







"Pszemol" > wrote in message >...
> I have just review data of power consumption for several powerheads
> and I am finding interesting results... Look below:
>
> Model Consumption Max Flow Flow/watts
> (in watts) gph gph/W
> MP400 5 106 21.20
> MP600 7.5 160 21.33
> MP900 8.5 230 27.05
> MP1200 20 295 14.75
>
> Penguin 550 8 145 18.13
> Penguin 660 9 170 18.89
> Penguin 1140 11 300 27.27
>
> Mag Drive 1 6 80 13.33
> Mag Drive 1.5 9 140 15.56
> Mag Drive 1.9 19 190 10.00
> Mag Drive 2 24 250 10.41
> Mag Drive 3 35 250 7.14
> Mag Drive 5 45 500 11.11
> Mag Drive 7 70 700 10.00
> Mag Drive 9.5 93 950 10.21
> Mag-Drive 12 110 1200 10.91
> Mag-Drive 18 145 1800 12.41
> Mag-Drive 24 265 2400 9.06
>
> I am using "maximum" water flow which is given for the
> situation the pump is working without head as a powerhead
> inside the tank or in the closed loop system...
>
> It looks like the "best powerhead" acording to opinions of users
> (MaxiJet 1200) is cosuming almost twice the power consumed by the
> Penguin 1140 which gives stronger flow. Knowing that when powerhead
> is fully submerged almost all electric power delivered to it is
> converted to heat it looks like the Maxi-Jet 1200 and MAGs are the
> most effective IN RISING THE TEMPERATURE OF WATER IN THE TANK...
>
> The coolest pumps with the best consumption/flow index over
> 27gph/W are Maxi-Jet 900 and Penguin 1140...
>
> Currently I am using two MaxiJet 1200 in my tank, one as a water
> agitator and the 2nd as a skimmer driver, but now I will look
> for ways to replace them with some more effective designs...
> I wanted to replace powerheads with one MAG pump in the sump,
> but it looks like with the index around 10gph/W MAG pumps are
> best HEATERS not the coolest pumps :-)))
>
> Unfortunatelly the Penguing powerheads have a rim around the
> outlet which will make it difficult to connect to my skimmer
> or too weak to be used as the return pump from the sump...
>
> Is there a way to connect outlets from two or more pumps to
> create bigger water flow keeping the gph/W efficiency of the
> original pumps? If I take 3 Penguins and link them together
> somehow, will I get a "pump" consuming 33W and giving 900gph?
>
> Guys with plumbing experience - I am calling you to the blackboard :-)
> Maybe you know a better pumps which can be used as powerheads or
> return pumps with smaller wattage consumption per gallong of flow?

[Pszemol]

"Quibz" > wrote in message m...
> Huh???
> Hasn't anyone heard of a the Tunze Turbelle Stream 6000/6100's?

I have heard about them but they are very different pumps :-)

> Model 6000 15w 1850gph 123gph/watt
> Model 6100 45w 3175gph 70gph/watt
>
> These literally blow all the others away!
> Flow and pulse rates variable/controllable to boot.

Yes, I agree. The numbers are very impresive.
But are the flows comparable to other pumps?

> I had to go back and check to make sure this post wasn't dated 11/2002
> or 2001.

No, it was not :-)) I posted this to learn more in the group - thanks Quibz

> I bought 2 6100's and the 1794 controller and now I see water movement
> is as important as a good skimmer or ca reactor.

What tank have you installed them in?

[~Vicki ~]

I am a little curious, but which power head produces the most heat? I
am looking in to another heater for my 55g but if I can add a few power
heads and they will heat the water then I would rather do that. I know
that this question is a little out of the norm but so am I. Keep in
mind that the tank is a FO tank so my lighting does not put out any
noticeable heat. I know that a second heater would do the trick but a
little more movement would make my fish happy.

Vicki

Visit me on line at http://shamrock4u.250free.com

[Dragon Slayer]

Problem with that Vicki is that they add the heat constantly and a heater is
thermostatically controlled. while you may not have a problem this time of
year (assuming your in the northern part of the world and getting into
winter) but when the temps start to go back up so will your tank, then the
power heads become a problem there.

kc

"~Vicki ~" > wrote in message
...
> I am a little curious, but which power head produces the most heat? I
> am looking in to another heater for my 55g but if I can add a few power
> heads and they will heat the water then I would rather do that. I know
> that this question is a little out of the norm but so am I. Keep in
> mind that the tank is a FO tank so my lighting does not put out any
> noticeable heat. I know that a second heater would do the trick but a
> little more movement would make my fish happy.
>
> Vicki
>
> Visit me on line at http://shamrock4u.250free.com
>

[~Vicki ~]

Thanks KC, you answered my question and then some. So I guess a second
heater is in order.

Vicki

Problem with that Vicki is that they add the heat constantly and a
heater is thermostatically controlled. while you may not have a problem
this time of year (assuming your in the northern part of the world and
getting into winter) but when the temps start to go back up so will your
tank, then the power heads become a problem there.
kc

[wolfhedd]

i dont agree, now that would depend on engineering. if your going to pull
out a basic assumption, i thik pezemol is on the right track.

and to jonathon, were looking for a cool running pump here because
everything adds up.
wolfhedd

"erik" > wrote in message
...
> Decreased flow rate translates into increased current consumption so I
> assume that these will all use more current (i.e. higher wattage) as
> the head increases and flow decreases.
>
>
>
> Erik
>
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:06:51 GMT, "Pszemol" >
> wrote:
>
> >"Jonathan Cohen" > wrote in message
...
> >> You're right about questioning the Rio quality. I had a Rio pump for
my
> >> protein skimmer and it wouldn't start after I plugged it back in
following a
> >> water change. The manufacturer gave me zero support. They never
replied
> >> to my e-mails and they list no phone numbers to call in their
advertising.
> >> And the internet retailer I bought it from said Rio pumps are prone to
this
> >> kind of malfunction. They said to give it a good hit to start it.
Hardly a
> >> solution to live with. I don't know about the quality of the other
pumps
> >> you tested but my MAG pumps work flawlessly and seem rock solid. I'll
live
> >> with a hotter running pump to get the reliability.
> >
> >I know, reliability is a quite a different story.
> >I did not say "dont buy pump X" :) I just compared them based on gph/W
index.
> >
> >> Also is the heat dissipated going to really make a difference in the
big
> >> scheme of things? In a big tank the difference in heat between pumps
may
> >> be minimal
> >
> >Yes, it makes big difference. Recently I added MaxiJet 1200 near the
> >water surface to cope with oily scum on the surface and I see a noticable
> >temperature increase. Think about it - it is like you submerse almost
> >20W heater in the water and turn it on without thermostate 24/7.
> >Of course it will not be whole 20W goind into heat because some of this
> >energy will be used to move water, but if one pump moves 300 gallons
> >of water per hour using 20W and other does THE SAME using 11W then
> >you have just waster 9W stright to rise the temperature in the tank...
> >You will have 3-4 circulation powerheads in the water column and
> >the differenece will multiply - 30W constanly on in your tank will
> >generate significant temperature rise in my opinion.
> >
> >> And will you get the flow rate you need from those cooler pumps
> >> when you have several feet of head pressure?
> >
> >That is another question to be answered... When next time I will have
> >to rebuild and recompile my whole Windows CE project that I was working
> >on today and will have again 20 minutes of spare time
> >I will compare pumps at 4 feet head pressure flow per watt :-)))
> >I have to check if pumps differ much with flow at 4 feet when they
> >have flow at zero level the same... do they? I do not have this data.
>

[wolfhedd]

if you do decide to use it as a heat supplement, then you just take the one
with the highest wattage, thats the heater. waterflow isnt as important,
because that flow will carry the heat into the tank as well as a lesser
flowing tank. with electromotive force, there is heat loss. there is no
perfect energy. we can exploit this heat loss and use it to supplement tank.
so high wattage pumps would be the heaters, but as dragon slayer mentioned,
you wouldnt want it to be hotter than summer dictates.
wolfhedd
"~Vicki ~" > wrote in message
...
> I am a little curious, but which power head produces the most heat? I
> am looking in to another heater for my 55g but if I can add a few power
> heads and they will heat the water then I would rather do that. I know
> that this question is a little out of the norm but so am I. Keep in
> mind that the tank is a FO tank so my lighting does not put out any
> noticeable heat. I know that a second heater would do the trick but a
> little more movement would make my fish happy.
>
> Vicki
>
> Visit me on line at http://shamrock4u.250free.com
>

[Marc Levenson]

I'm running a single Tunze Turbelle that moves 700gph at 54w, I believe. I'd have to
find the manual to confirm that and provide you with the model number.

Marc


Quibz wrote:

> Huh???
> Hasn't anyone heard of a the Tunze Turbelle Stream 6000/6100's?
>
> Model 6000 15w 1850gph 123gph/watt
> Model 6100 45w 3175gph 70gph/watt
>

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