NEW Anenome

[news]

I got a bubble anemone and the lady at the lfs who sold it to me said to put
him in the water and he would decide where to go. I placed him on a rock but
the current sort of moved him around the side before he 'caught' on. Now he
is on the side and not getting much of the light. Should I move him or just
leave him be? Also should I be feeding him something special or are the
brine shrimp that I feed the percula enough for him aswell?

Thanks,
Kelly

[tropheus]

If he is not stinging anything, let it be. If you want it to thrive, feed
lancefish soaked in Selcon about twice a week. My Roses went from one to 7
in less than a year.

Best,

MFR
"news" > wrote in message
news:NDEsb.379285$6C4.323525@pd7tw1no...
> I got a bubble anemone and the lady at the lfs who sold it to me said to
put
> him in the water and he would decide where to go. I placed him on a rock
but
> the current sort of moved him around the side before he 'caught' on. Now
he
> is on the side and not getting much of the light. Should I move him or
just
> leave him be? Also should I be feeding him something special or are the
> brine shrimp that I feed the percula enough for him aswell?
>
> Thanks,
> Kelly
>
>

[TomW]

I've got the same problem with a LTA.
It just sits in the corner and doesn't seem to want to eat. I've tried
frozen krill (thawed of course) and small pieces of fresh shimp. It just
doesn't seem interested.
-Tom

[news]

Stinging anything? They sting?


"TomW" > wrote in message
...
> I've got the same problem with a LTA.
> It just sits in the corner and doesn't seem to want to eat. I've tried
> frozen krill (thawed of course) and small pieces of fresh shimp. It just
> doesn't seem interested.
> -Tom
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

YES, anemones have a very powerful sting and can kill about any coral they
come in contact with. as well as fish other then clowns who are immune to
the stings.

kc


"news" > wrote in message
news:mL_sb.385955$pl3.300390@pd7tw3no...
> Stinging anything? They sting?
>
>
> "TomW" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've got the same problem with a LTA.
> > It just sits in the corner and doesn't seem to want to eat. I've tried
> > frozen krill (thawed of course) and small pieces of fresh shimp. It just
> > doesn't seem interested.
> > -Tom
> >
> >
>
>

[news]

They won't seek out the coral will they?
"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> YES, anemones have a very powerful sting and can kill about any coral they
> come in contact with. as well as fish other then clowns who are immune to
> the stings.
>
> kc
>
>
> "news" > wrote in message
> news:mL_sb.385955$pl3.300390@pd7tw3no...
> > Stinging anything? They sting?
> >
> >
> > "TomW" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I've got the same problem with a LTA.
> > > It just sits in the corner and doesn't seem to want to eat. I've tried
> > > frozen krill (thawed of course) and small pieces of fresh shimp. It
just
> > > doesn't seem interested.
> > > -Tom
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

no, but when the wander around they always find a way to wrap themselves
around your favorite coral and kill it before you notice its doing it.

kc

"news" > wrote in message
news:HActb.390273$6C4.209188@pd7tw1no...
> They won't seek out the coral will they?
> "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > YES, anemones have a very powerful sting and can kill about any coral
they
> > come in contact with. as well as fish other then clowns who are immune
to
> > the stings.
> >
> > kc
> >
> >
> > "news" > wrote in message
> > news:mL_sb.385955$pl3.300390@pd7tw3no...
> > > Stinging anything? They sting?
> > >
> > >
> > > "TomW" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I've got the same problem with a LTA.
> > > > It just sits in the corner and doesn't seem to want to eat. I've
tried
> > > > frozen krill (thawed of course) and small pieces of fresh shimp. It
> just
> > > > doesn't seem interested.
> > > > -Tom
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Greg Hewitt-Long]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message >...
> YES, anemones have a very powerful sting and can kill about any coral they
> come in contact with. as well as fish other then clowns who are immune to
> the stings.

Define "immune".

To my knowledge, the "immunity" stems from the clown rubbing itself at
the base of the anemone to cover itself in mucus from the anemone
itself - this "tricks" the anemone into thinking that the fish is
actually part of the anemone, and it doesn't ever sting itself!

fwiw - a clown which has had it's protective coating removed, or worn
off over time, will have to re-coat itself in the mucus from the
anemone's base, or it will be stung - potentially fatally!

Clowns have no "immunity" to stings from the anemones they host with -
they have a "learned behavior" which allows them to co-exist, or to
make use of a "fail-safe" in the anemone's killing process. Their
symbiotic relationship is actually a clever fish's way of exploiting a
safeguard the anemone has which prevents it from stinging itself.

Given that the anemone actually does the killing in this arrangement
of clown/host anemone, the clown is almost saprophytic (feeds on the
dead flesh of another organism). Although it's true that the clowns
will "lure" for the anemone, the relationship is purely selfish on the
part of the clown - it's not trying to "feed" the anemone, but rather
lure an unsuspecting fish to it's own dinner table.

hth

Greg Hewitt-Long

>
> kc
>
>
> "news" > wrote in message
> news:mL_sb.385955$pl3.300390@pd7tw3no...
> > Stinging anything? They sting?
> >
> >
> > "TomW" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I've got the same problem with a LTA.
> > > It just sits in the corner and doesn't seem to want to eat. I've tried
> > > frozen krill (thawed of course) and small pieces of fresh shimp. It just
> > > doesn't seem interested.
> > > -Tom
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

[Dragon Slayer]

well it just so happens that i traded for a new carpet anemone today to add
back to my tank where i lost my huge one a few months back during a move.
the clown's were checking out the anemone as it sat in the bag during
acclimation. when i put it in the tank the female went straight to the
tenticals and started rubbing all in them, never went to the base for any
kind of 'coating'. she is quite happy and it did not sting her, nor kill
her.

kc

[Dragon Slayer]

>..........., the relationship is purely selfish on the
> part of the clown - it's not trying to "feed" the anemone, but rather
> lure an unsuspecting fish to it's own dinner table.
>
>

I don't know where you get this info from but that is a crock of
it.................


all the clowns I have that are hosting in an anemone (or even other things
in the tank) will grab up food and take it back to the anemone and feed it.
they are very 'unselfish' and the relationship between clown and the anemone
is beneficial to the both of them. the clown will also protect the anemone.

really curious now if your not 'trolling' here.

kc

[Marc Levenson]

Kelly, check out this article for some great information. (It is not by me,
btw)

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/bubbletipanemones.htm

Marc


news wrote:

> I got a bubble anemone and the lady at the lfs who sold it to me said to put
> him in the water and he would decide where to go. I placed him on a rock but
> the current sort of moved him around the side before he 'caught' on. Now he
> is on the side and not getting much of the light. Should I move him or just
> leave him be? Also should I be feeding him something special or are the
> brine shrimp that I feed the percula enough for him aswell?
>
> Thanks,
> Kelly

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Greg Hewitt-Long]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message >...
> >..........., the relationship is purely selfish on the
> > part of the clown - it's not trying to "feed" the anemone, but rather
> > lure an unsuspecting fish to it's own dinner table.
> >
> >
>
> I don't know where you get this info from but that is a crock of
> it.................

In your opinion - you don't have a monopoly on those, and I'm sure
you've been wrong at least once in your life, this month, week, day -
all the time?

http://www.pbs.org/odyssey/odyssey/20010620_log_transcript.html

As I'm sure you're aware, there is (always has been) a lot of
"theories" and hypotheses about just about anything that is not
"understood" - my knowledge comes from many, many hours observing when
I worked as a divemaster and dive instructor in Cairms, Queensland,
and from "expert" opinions who I have worked with, both in the marine
biology field, and from multiple sources who have many years of
observation in the field.

I've read many theories and opinions on the mucus and how it builds up
- I'm not opposed to thinking that it is generated by the clownfish
itself, or picked up from the anemone - the more I read, the more I
tend to think that it's probably "generated" by the clownfish itself -
the fact that it's the mucus that provides the protection does nothing
to remove the fact that there is NO IMMUNITY to the sting - the
purpose of the mucus is to PREVENT the anemone from stinging.

The mucus is the key - there is NO IMMUNITY.

>
>
> all the clowns I have that are hosting in an anemone (or even other things
> in the tank) will grab up food and take it back to the anemone and feed it.
> they are very 'unselfish' and the relationship between clown and the anemone
> is beneficial to the both of them. the clown will also protect the anemone.
>
> really curious now if your not 'trolling' here.

Can't you take a second "opinion" on this, and I must somehow be
"trolling" - you must be a really insecure individual... quite sad
really...

>
> kc

[Greg Hewitt-Long]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message >...
> well it just so happens that i traded for a new carpet anemone today to add
> back to my tank where i lost my huge one a few months back during a move.
> the clown's were checking out the anemone as it sat in the bag during
> acclimation. when i put it in the tank the female went straight to the
> tenticals and started rubbing all in them, never went to the base for any
> kind of 'coating'. she is quite happy and it did not sting her, nor kill
> her.

perhaps the clown has a mucus that is already compatible - I can't say
whether the clown's previous exposure to this genus of anemone is
responsible - but undoutably it's the mucus on the clown, NOT the fact
is has some kind of "immunity".

>
> kc

[Greg Hewitt-Long]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message >...
> >..........., the relationship is purely selfish on the
> > part of the clown - it's not trying to "feed" the anemone, but rather
> > lure an unsuspecting fish to it's own dinner table.
> >
> >
>
> I don't know where you get this info from but that is a crock of
> it.................
>
>
> all the clowns I have that are hosting in an anemone (or even other things
> in the tank) will grab up food and take it back to the anemone and feed it.
> they are very 'unselfish' and the relationship between clown and the anemone
> is beneficial to the both of them. the clown will also protect the anemone.


You read taking the food back to the anemone as "feeding" - how about
storing the food there as any potential thief would get stung during
the commission of the crime???

I'd suggest that the clown uses the anemone as a pantry, or storage
cupboard, knowing full well that the only potential thief is another
hosted clown of it's own family group - anyone else will be
potentially fatally stung in the attempt to steal the food - the
anemone may get a free feed, but more often, the clown gets to
retrieve it's food at a later time.

There are often more than one way to interpret the actions of the
animals in your tank... you appear to be closed minded on this though,
so I doubt you've even considered anything apart from "feeding" it's
host...

[Dragon Slayer]

so you yourself are suggesting that the clown has a mucus that gives it an
immunity to the sting. I'm pretty sure that with the growth of the clown
over the past several months that any form of anything it 'might' have got
off the previous anemone, would be long gone. therefore its developed an
immunity huh???

kc

[Dragon Slayer]

"Greg Hewitt-Long" > wrote in message
om...

>.......... the more I read, the more I
>tend to think that it's probably "generated" by the clownfish itself -


Immunity defined: Inherited, acquired, or induced resistance to infection
by a specific pathogen.


forgive me but when a body produces anything to protect against
something.........isn't that an immunity?

with all your contradiction in yourself, I tend to stick to my first
assumption of your trolling.

kc

[Greg Hewitt-Long]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message >...
> "Greg Hewitt-Long" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> >.......... the more I read, the more I
> >tend to think that it's probably "generated" by the clownfish itself -
>
>
> Immunity defined: Inherited, acquired, or induced resistance to infection
> by a specific pathogen.
>

Nice definition - incorrect in it's lacking to mention toxins (which
aren't by definition pathogens) - you can obtain an immunity to a
toxin too - which is what the anemone uses to kill it's prey -
nematocysts fire toxins into the prey.

Anyway - the fact remains, the clown has a layer of mucus which
protects it - not be some "immunity", but more akin to wearing a layer
of protective clothes. This coating fools the anemone into NOT
stinging, or firing it's nematocysts at the clown - therefore, the
clown doesn't get injected with TOXINS.

This mucus is either "generated" by the clown, or picked up - either
way, the clown doesn't have an "immunity". An immunity would be
caused by a tolerance or an anti-body - the clown has neither, as
removal of the mucus will result in the clown being STUNG TO DEATH.
Just putting on a protective suit does NOT provide a bee keeper with
"immunity" from the stings of his bees - rather, it provides
"protection" - which is easily removed.

>
> forgive me but when a body produces anything to protect against
> something.........isn't that an immunity?

No - one is a layer which protects - ie, a barrier defense, the other
is an internal tolerance, either caused by anti-bodies, or by an
acquired tolerance (more usual in the case of a toxin).

If you can't see or comprehend the difference between a protective
layer of mucus (or a bee-keeper's protective suit) and the real
immunity, then I'd suggest that you learn a bit more biology. I'm not
trying to split hairs here - there is a real and significant
DIFFERENCE.

Example 1: the beekeeper and his protective suit - stings can't reach
the bee-keeper.

Example 2: almost all fish have a mucus coating, it's job is to
protect from water-borne diseases, parasites, scrapes etc. If this
mucus is removed, the fish is more prone to disease. Did the fish
lose it's "immunity", or was it's barrier defense system damaged?

Example 3: if a castle of old had a moat and a draw-bridge, it was
impregnable to many attacks from it's enemies - if the sentry falls
asleep after letting down the draw-bridge for a friendly villager to
enter the castle, are the castle's defenses now compromised?

Can you see similarities between the defenses I mentioned and the
mucus coating which protects the clownfish? All are barrier defenses
- they do not provide any kind of "immunity", but rather are "barrier
defenses". The difference might be sublte, but it is significant.

>
> with all your contradiction in yourself, I tend to stick to my first
> assumption of your trolling.

Assume away - you just don't seem to be able to accept an alternative
opinion that I'm reasonably trying to explain - now *that's* a classic
troll behavior... please don't try to drag the conversation down - I'm
explaining things very simply, and I'd hope that anyone with the power
of reasoning would be able to at least follow the conversation - I
don't want to start a name-calling session here, that's not
constructive.

>
> kc

[Greg Hewitt-Long]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message >...
> so you yourself are suggesting that the clown has a mucus that gives it an
> immunity to the sting.

The hell I am. The mucus protects the clown - that is NOT the same as
"immunity" - when you put on a coat to protect you from the cold, are
you immune to the cold? Hell NO!

> I'm pretty sure that with the growth of the clown
> over the past several months that any form of anything it 'might' have got
> off the previous anemone, would be long gone. therefore its developed an
> immunity huh???

No - not IMMUNITY. You are missing my whole point, they have no
immunity, but have a protective layer of mucus which endows them with
a protection by fooling the anemone into thinking that the clown in
part of the anemone - this is NOT the same as immunity.

>
> kc