Rapid cycling bacteria

[Elaine T]

I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new bacterial
products that everyone should be aware of.

According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products can
speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website says
sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb

Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland BioSpira.

Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and some
very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.

Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank is the
best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile tank
might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a full
fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an emergency,
however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle that's
easier on both fish and aquarist.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

Elaine T wrote:
> I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
> about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new bacterial
> products that everyone should be aware of.
>
> According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products can
> speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
> http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website says
> sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
> http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
>
> Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland BioSpira.
>
> Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and some
> very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.
>
> Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank is the
> best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile tank
> might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a full
> fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an emergency,
> however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle that's
> easier on both fish and aquarist.
>

All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look at
the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a
sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or
all of the fish died... If people have success with these products great
for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them to
suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't
trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately. However,
that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could be an
exception.

My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial
action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or
water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach
however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish cyled.
However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine until they
are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary. My
latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0
nitrite/0 ammonia).

I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
"rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).

Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a
good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products could
be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully stock a
tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this
world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....

JMO
Gill

[Rick]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Elaine T wrote:
>> I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating about
>> cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new bacterial products
>> that everyone should be aware of.
>>
>> According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products can
>> speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
>> http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website says
>> sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
>> http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
>>
>> Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland BioSpira.
>>
>> Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and some
>> very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.
>>
>> Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank is the
>> best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile tank
>> might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a full
>> fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an emergency,
>> however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle that's
>> easier on both fish and aquarist.
>>
>
> All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look at the
> testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a sceptic
> they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or all of the
> fish died... If people have success with these products great for them and
> great for the fish but I would still only use them to suplement the
> traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't trust them enough to
> put in a full load of fish immediately. However, that being said your
> example of a sterile tank environment could be an exception.
>
> My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
> approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial action
> (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or water
> change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach however the
> tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish cyled. However, I do
> not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine until they are fully
> cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary. My latest is just
> about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0 nitrite/0 ammonia).
>
> I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
> be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
> tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
> "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
> here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>
> Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a good
> thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products could be
> looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully stock a tank
> immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this world,
> afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
>
> JMO
> Gill

I had a neighbor who sold a 'waterless car wash', I was skeptical to say the
least. He offered to 'wash' my truck for me to show me how well it worked, I
must admit it looked great. So I felt obligated to buy some and I did, but I
couldn't help but wonder what the long term affect on the paint might be.
Car soap and water lubricates and helps to keep the paint scratch free while
rubbing with a sponge. I never did use the stuff myself, but I suppose if I
find myself with no water or soap, I might try it.

I hopefully will never have to start a sterile tank again, nor will any of
my friends (I keep a couple sponges with my bio-balls in the sump), but I
suppose if I find myself with no water...I wont have a tank..just kidding.
But if I had to start over, it probably couldn't hurt to jump start a cycle,
but it's hard to break from what you KNOW works from your own experience.

Now I'm sure this made no sence at all, but I know what I said.

[NetMax]

"Rick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Elaine T wrote:
>>> I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
>>> about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new bacterial
>>> products that everyone should be aware of.
>>>
>>> According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products
>>> can speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
>>> http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website says
>>> sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
>>> http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
>>>
>>> Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland
>>> BioSpira.
>>>
>>> Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and
>>> some very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly
>>> works.
>>>
>>> Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank is
>>> the best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a
>>> sterile tank might want to try any of these three products. I
>>> wouldn't dump a full fish load into a tank after using any of them
>>> except in an emergency, however I think it's reasonable to expect a
>>> much shorter cycle that's easier on both fish and aquarist.
>>>
>>
>> All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look at
>> the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a
>> sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or
>> all of the fish died... If people have success with these products
>> great for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them
>> to suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't
>> trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately. However,
>> that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could be an
>> exception.
>>
>> My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
>> approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial
>> action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or
>> water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach
>> however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish
>> cyled. However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine
>> until they are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if
>> necessary. My latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4
>> weeks (0 nitrite/0 ammonia).
>>
>> I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank
>> would be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from
>> the old tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also
>> add some "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was
>> available over here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is
>> Cycle).
>>
>> Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a
>> good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products
>> could be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully
>> stock a tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in
>> this world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
>>
>> JMO
>> Gill
>
> I had a neighbor who sold a 'waterless car wash', I was skeptical to
> say the least. He offered to 'wash' my truck for me to show me how well
> it worked, I must admit it looked great. So I felt obligated to buy
> some and I did, but I couldn't help but wonder what the long term
> affect on the paint might be. Car soap and water lubricates and helps
> to keep the paint scratch free while rubbing with a sponge. I never did
> use the stuff myself, but I suppose if I find myself with no water or
> soap, I might try it.
>
> I hopefully will never have to start a sterile tank again, nor will any
> of my friends (I keep a couple sponges with my bio-balls in the sump),
> but I suppose if I find myself with no water...I wont have a tank..just
> kidding. But if I had to start over, it probably couldn't hurt to jump
> start a cycle, but it's hard to break from what you KNOW works from
> your own experience.
>
> Now I'm sure this made no sence at all, but I know what I said.


Thanks for the data Elaine. I hope they keep looking for the magic pill.
Even if it only allows instantly stocking to 20% capacity, it would be
ideal for the majority of cases where a new hobbyist is starting with
young fish. I've spent 100s of hours at work explaining to people how to
start a tank, and heard back regular reports from most of them, and it
needs to be made easier (though I always like the little jig they do when
their NO2 hits zero ;~). The classical method of adding only a few fish
at a time is like playing a longer game of Russian roulette, as every
purchase can introduce a disease, and it's very rare that new hobbyists
follow any type of quarantining.

I've had too many heart broken customers following the 'few fish at a
time' procedure have their tanks wiped out by a spontaneous purchase from
a department store (even apologising to me for killing the fish they
purchased from me). Besides the disease vectors, I think it's
unnecessarily stressful to territorial fish.

Research the fish, plants etc, set up the environment, and put them all
in as juveniles within one week, and except for water changes and
vacuuming, leave them alone for about 3 months. This is my advice and it
works best with a solid working bacteria culture, if not an established
filter, then bacteria starter.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Tynk]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Elaine T wrote:
> > I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
> > about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new bacterial
> > products that everyone should be aware of.
> >
> > According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products can
> > speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
> > http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website says
> > sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
> > http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
> >
> > Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland BioSpira.
> >
> > Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and some
> > very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.
> >
> > Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank is the
> > best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile tank
> > might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a full
> > fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an emergency,
> > however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle that's
> > easier on both fish and aquarist.
> >
>
> All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look at
> the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a
> sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or
> all of the fish died... If people have success with these products great
> for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them to
> suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't
> trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately. However,
> that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could be an
> exception.
>
> My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
> approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial
> action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or
> water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach
> however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish cyled.
> However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine until they
> are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary. My
> latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0
> nitrite/0 ammonia).
>
> I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
> be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
> tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
> "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
> here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>
> Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a
> good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products could
> be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully stock a
> tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this
> world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
>
> JMO
> Gill

> I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
> be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
> tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
> "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
> here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).

This was exactly the reason I first tried Bio Spira. I upgraded a 29g
to a 75g, Same fish, same decor and gravel, except the new gravel that
needed to be added to the existing.
Everything went great..not even a bacertia bloom cloud.
As for the 20gH's...did those from sterile.
The 3's. 2 1/2's, and all 1g's I had used it on and had wonderful
results.
Then I had to bleach the 75g when TB came in and I once again used Bio
Spira. This time the same tank, new fish (not as many), bleached
gravel, and dechor.
I did the 75g sterile and I had great results once again.
I didn't believe in Bio Spira when it first came out.
I put it into the same pit as Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, etc. None
of these work.
Then I tried it for myself.
I will never set up another tank without it.

[Gill Passman]

Tynk wrote:
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
>>Elaine T wrote:
>>
>>>I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
>>>about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new bacterial
>>>products that everyone should be aware of.
>>>
>>>According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products can
>>>speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
>>>http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website says
>>>sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
>>>http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
>>>
>>>Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland BioSpira.
>>>
>>>Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and some
>>>very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.
>>>
>>>Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank is the
>>>best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile tank
>>>might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a full
>>>fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an emergency,
>>>however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle that's
>>>easier on both fish and aquarist.
>>>
>>
>>All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look at
>>the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a
>>sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or
>>all of the fish died... If people have success with these products great
>>for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them to
>>suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't
>>trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately. However,
>>that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could be an
>>exception.
>>
>>My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
>>approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial
>>action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or
>>water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach
>>however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish cyled.
>>However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine until they
>>are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary. My
>>latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0
>>nitrite/0 ammonia).
>>
>>I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
>>be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
>>tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
>>"rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
>>here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>>
>>Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a
>>good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products could
>>be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully stock a
>>tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this
>>world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
>>
>>JMO
>>Gill
>
>
>>I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
>>be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
>>tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
>>"rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
>>here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>
>
> This was exactly the reason I first tried Bio Spira. I upgraded a 29g
> to a 75g, Same fish, same decor and gravel, except the new gravel that
> needed to be added to the existing.
> Everything went great..not even a bacertia bloom cloud.
> As for the 20gH's...did those from sterile.
> The 3's. 2 1/2's, and all 1g's I had used it on and had wonderful
> results.
> Then I had to bleach the 75g when TB came in and I once again used Bio
> Spira. This time the same tank, new fish (not as many), bleached
> gravel, and dechor.
> I did the 75g sterile and I had great results once again.
> I didn't believe in Bio Spira when it first came out.
> I put it into the same pit as Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, etc. None
> of these work.
> Then I tried it for myself.
> I will never set up another tank without it.
>
Done some quick checks and it does not look as if either Bio Spira or
HDL's Right Now are available in the UK. Also because they need to be
shipped/received in 24 hours ordering on the net isn't an option.

Maybe one day these products will be available over here but until then
sadly it's traditional methods for us...BTW same applies with most of
the meds discussed on this group :-(

Gill

[lgb]

In article >,
says...
> Research the fish, plants etc, set up the environment, and put them all
> in as juveniles within one week, and except for water changes and
> vacuuming, leave them alone for about 3 months. This is my advice and it
> works best with a solid working bacteria culture, if not an established
> filter, then bacteria starter.
>
As a beginner, I can only report personal experience, and certainly
can't quarrel with the above.

But what I did was to put in a substrate of coarse sand and Ecocomplete,
add a whole bunch of live plants, wait a couple of weeks for the plants
to get well rooted, and added fish. Two bettas in a divided 10 gallon.

I was really worried at first when my test kit reported no ammonia, and
no nitrites, just nitrate. Seems the plants ate the ammonia as fast as
the bettas produced it. I assume the nitrates came directly from fish
waste, although my chemistry isn't good enough to say for sure. Maybe
there were ammonia and nitrite at a level below the test kits capability
to detect.

Since then I started another tank the same way, but the fish were
platies and I didn't use any Ecocomplete. Same result.

I've got a 29 and a 20 waiting for stands and I'll start them the same
way.

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[Gill Passman]

lgb wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>Research the fish, plants etc, set up the environment, and put them all
>>in as juveniles within one week, and except for water changes and
>>vacuuming, leave them alone for about 3 months. This is my advice and it
>>works best with a solid working bacteria culture, if not an established
>>filter, then bacteria starter.
>>
>
> As a beginner, I can only report personal experience, and certainly
> can't quarrel with the above.
>
> But what I did was to put in a substrate of coarse sand and Ecocomplete,
> add a whole bunch of live plants, wait a couple of weeks for the plants
> to get well rooted, and added fish. Two bettas in a divided 10 gallon.
>
> I was really worried at first when my test kit reported no ammonia, and
> no nitrites, just nitrate. Seems the plants ate the ammonia as fast as
> the bettas produced it. I assume the nitrates came directly from fish
> waste, although my chemistry isn't good enough to say for sure. Maybe
> there were ammonia and nitrite at a level below the test kits capability
> to detect.
>
> Since then I started another tank the same way, but the fish were
> platies and I didn't use any Ecocomplete. Same result.
>
> I've got a 29 and a 20 waiting for stands and I'll start them the same
> way.
>
Maybe this is all subjective but I would call 2 Bettas in a 10gall a low
fish load....

How many Platies did you put in and in what tank capacity?

Just curious....
Gill

[Elaine T]

lgb wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>Research the fish, plants etc, set up the environment, and put them all
>>in as juveniles within one week, and except for water changes and
>>vacuuming, leave them alone for about 3 months. This is my advice and it
>>works best with a solid working bacteria culture, if not an established
>>filter, then bacteria starter.
>>
>
> As a beginner, I can only report personal experience, and certainly
> can't quarrel with the above.
>
> But what I did was to put in a substrate of coarse sand and Ecocomplete,
> add a whole bunch of live plants, wait a couple of weeks for the plants
> to get well rooted, and added fish. Two bettas in a divided 10 gallon.
>
> I was really worried at first when my test kit reported no ammonia, and
> no nitrites, just nitrate. Seems the plants ate the ammonia as fast as
> the bettas produced it. I assume the nitrates came directly from fish
> waste, although my chemistry isn't good enough to say for sure. Maybe
> there were ammonia and nitrite at a level below the test kits capability
> to detect.
>
> Since then I started another tank the same way, but the fish were
> platies and I didn't use any Ecocomplete. Same result.
>
> I've got a 29 and a 20 waiting for stands and I'll start them the same
> way.
>
I LOVE cycling with plants in a tank! I totally agree with you that for
planted tanks, the cycle is barely an issue if you add fish slowly.

I mostly posted about the bacterial products for situations like
beginners with *properly stocked* new tanks who prefer artficial plants,
sterile quarantine tanks, moves, damaged equipment, and other
situations where someone suddenly loses a cycle and has no easy way to seed.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[John B.]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Gill Passman wrote:
> > Elaine T wrote:
> > > I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
> > > about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new bacterial
> > > products that everyone should be aware of.
> > >
> > > According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products
can
> > > speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
> > > http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website says
> > > sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
> > > http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
> > >
> > > Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland
BioSpira.
> > >
> > > Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and some
> > > very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.
> > >
> > > Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank is
the
> > > best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile
tank
> > > might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a full
> > > fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an emergency,
> > > however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle that's
> > > easier on both fish and aquarist.
> > >
> >
> > All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look at
> > the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a
> > sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or
> > all of the fish died... If people have success with these products great
> > for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them to
> > suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't
> > trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately. However,
> > that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could be an
> > exception.
> >
> > My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
> > approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial
> > action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or
> > water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach
> > however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish cyled.
> > However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine until they
> > are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary. My
> > latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0
> > nitrite/0 ammonia).
> >
> > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
> > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
> > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
> > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
> > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
> >
> > Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a
> > good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products could
> > be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully stock a
> > tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this
> > world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
> >
> > JMO
> > Gill
>
> > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
> > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
> > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
> > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
> > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>
> This was exactly the reason I first tried Bio Spira. I upgraded a 29g
> to a 75g, Same fish, same decor and gravel, except the new gravel that
> needed to be added to the existing.
> Everything went great..not even a bacertia bloom cloud.
> As for the 20gH's...did those from sterile.
> The 3's. 2 1/2's, and all 1g's I had used it on and had wonderful
> results.
> Then I had to bleach the 75g when TB came in and I once again used Bio
> Spira. This time the same tank, new fish (not as many), bleached
> gravel, and dechor.
> I did the 75g sterile and I had great results once again.
> I didn't believe in Bio Spira when it first came out.
> I put it into the same pit as Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, etc. None
> of these work.
> Then I tried it for myself.
> I will never set up another tank without it.
>

Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really works. It
is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.

[Tynk]

John B. wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Gill Passman wrote:
> > > Elaine T wrote:
> > > > I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
> > > > about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new bacterial
> > > > products that everyone should be aware of.
> > > >
> > > > According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products
> can
> > > > speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
> > > > http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website says
> > > > sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
> > > >
> > > > Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland
> BioSpira.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and some
> > > > very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.
> > > >
> > > > Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank is
> the
> > > > best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile
> tank
> > > > might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a full
> > > > fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an emergency,
> > > > however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle that's
> > > > easier on both fish and aquarist.
> > > >
> > >
> > > All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look at
> > > the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a
> > > sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or
> > > all of the fish died... If people have success with these products great
> > > for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them to
> > > suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't
> > > trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately. However,
> > > that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could be an
> > > exception.
> > >
> > > My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
> > > approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial
> > > action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or
> > > water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach
> > > however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish cyled.
> > > However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine until they
> > > are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary. My
> > > latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0
> > > nitrite/0 ammonia).
> > >
> > > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
> > > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
> > > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
> > > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
> > > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
> > >
> > > Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a
> > > good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products could
> > > be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully stock a
> > > tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this
> > > world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
> > >
> > > JMO
> > > Gill
> >
> > > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank would
> > > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the old
> > > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add some
> > > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available over
> > > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
> >
> > This was exactly the reason I first tried Bio Spira. I upgraded a 29g
> > to a 75g, Same fish, same decor and gravel, except the new gravel that
> > needed to be added to the existing.
> > Everything went great..not even a bacertia bloom cloud.
> > As for the 20gH's...did those from sterile.
> > The 3's. 2 1/2's, and all 1g's I had used it on and had wonderful
> > results.
> > Then I had to bleach the 75g when TB came in and I once again used Bio
> > Spira. This time the same tank, new fish (not as many), bleached
> > gravel, and dechor.
> > I did the 75g sterile and I had great results once again.
> > I didn't believe in Bio Spira when it first came out.
> > I put it into the same pit as Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, etc. None
> > of these work.
> > Then I tried it for myself.
> > I will never set up another tank without it.
> >
>
> Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really works. It
> is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.

> Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really works. It
> is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.

I have this PetLand locally that has had it priced wrong for years.
They're selling the 3 oz pack for $2.49, instead of the commolny
charged $24.99 for the 3 oz.
I even went as far as saying wow...is that right? Everyone else charges
lie 25 bucks for the stuff. They laughed and said who'd pay that much
for this. I smiled, and left with my now 3 packages instead of one.
Years went by, I keep buyig at $2.49 per 3 oz pack. I keep my mouth
shut now. They'll eventually catch on, but till then, I buy then like
3-4 at a time.
What really gets me is the fact the owner has 2 PetLand's locally. At
one of her stores she charges $24.99 for it, yet at this store it's
$2.49.
Crazy? Sure is. But I tried to be honest and a good person and alert
them to their error. They treated me like I was an idiot.
Uh huh...I'm an idiot alright. For not buying a box full! LOL = )~

[Rick]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> John B. wrote:
>> "Tynk" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > Gill Passman wrote:
>> > > Elaine T wrote:
>> > > > I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
>> > > > about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new
>> > > > bacterial
>> > > > products that everyone should be aware of.
>> > > >
>> > > > According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products
>> can
>> > > > speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
>> > > > http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website
>> > > > says
>> > > > sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
>> > > > http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
>> > > >
>> > > > Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland
>> BioSpira.
>> > > >
>> > > > Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and
>> > > > some
>> > > > very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.
>> > > >
>> > > > Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank
>> > > > is
>> the
>> > > > best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile
>> tank
>> > > > might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a
>> > > > full
>> > > > fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an
>> > > > emergency,
>> > > > however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle
>> > > > that's
>> > > > easier on both fish and aquarist.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look
>> > > at
>> > > the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a
>> > > sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or
>> > > all of the fish died... If people have success with these products
>> > > great
>> > > for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them to
>> > > suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't
>> > > trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately. However,
>> > > that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could be
>> > > an
>> > > exception.
>> > >
>> > > My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
>> > > approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial
>> > > action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or
>> > > water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach
>> > > however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish
>> > > cyled.
>> > > However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine until
>> > > they
>> > > are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary. My
>> > > latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0
>> > > nitrite/0 ammonia).
>> > >
>> > > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank
>> > > would
>> > > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the
>> > > old
>> > > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add
>> > > some
>> > > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available
>> > > over
>> > > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>> > >
>> > > Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a
>> > > good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products
>> > > could
>> > > be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully
>> > > stock a
>> > > tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this
>> > > world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
>> > >
>> > > JMO
>> > > Gill
>> >
>> > > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank
>> > > would
>> > > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the
>> > > old
>> > > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add
>> > > some
>> > > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available
>> > > over
>> > > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>> >
>> > This was exactly the reason I first tried Bio Spira. I upgraded a 29g
>> > to a 75g, Same fish, same decor and gravel, except the new gravel that
>> > needed to be added to the existing.
>> > Everything went great..not even a bacertia bloom cloud.
>> > As for the 20gH's...did those from sterile.
>> > The 3's. 2 1/2's, and all 1g's I had used it on and had wonderful
>> > results.
>> > Then I had to bleach the 75g when TB came in and I once again used Bio
>> > Spira. This time the same tank, new fish (not as many), bleached
>> > gravel, and dechor.
>> > I did the 75g sterile and I had great results once again.
>> > I didn't believe in Bio Spira when it first came out.
>> > I put it into the same pit as Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, etc. None
>> > of these work.
>> > Then I tried it for myself.
>> > I will never set up another tank without it.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really works.
>> It
>> is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.
>
>> Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really works.
>> It
>> is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.
>
> I have this PetLand locally that has had it priced wrong for years.
> They're selling the 3 oz pack for $2.49, instead of the commolny
> charged $24.99 for the 3 oz.
> I even went as far as saying wow...is that right? Everyone else charges
> lie 25 bucks for the stuff. They laughed and said who'd pay that much
> for this. I smiled, and left with my now 3 packages instead of one.
> Years went by, I keep buyig at $2.49 per 3 oz pack. I keep my mouth
> shut now. They'll eventually catch on, but till then, I buy then like
> 3-4 at a time.
> What really gets me is the fact the owner has 2 PetLand's locally. At
> one of her stores she charges $24.99 for it, yet at this store it's
> $2.49.
> Crazy? Sure is. But I tried to be honest and a good person and alert
> them to their error. They treated me like I was an idiot.
> Uh huh...I'm an idiot alright. For not buying a box full! LOL = )~

Just curiuos, why, if you have established tanks, would you need 10, 12 or
however many packs of the stuff? Wouldn't just 1 or 2 start your first tank
then you just seed more tanks from there? Even if I was starting friends out
in the hobby, I guess I just don't know that many friends that want
aquaiums. I guess I thought the stuff had a shelf life.

[Tynk]

Rick wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > John B. wrote:
> >> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Gill Passman wrote:
> >> > > Elaine T wrote:
> >> > > > I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are debating
> >> > > > about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new
> >> > > > bacterial
> >> > > > products that everyone should be aware of.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these products
> >> can
> >> > > > speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
> >> > > > http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website
> >> > > > says
> >> > > > sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is at
> >> > > > http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland
> >> BioSpira.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability and
> >> > > > some
> >> > > > very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly works.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing tank
> >> > > > is
> >> the
> >> > > > best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a sterile
> >> tank
> >> > > > might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump a
> >> > > > full
> >> > > > fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an
> >> > > > emergency,
> >> > > > however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle
> >> > > > that's
> >> > > > easier on both fish and aquarist.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a look
> >> > > at
> >> > > the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but being a
> >> > > sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some or
> >> > > all of the fish died... If people have success with these products
> >> > > great
> >> > > for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them to
> >> > > suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly wouldn't
> >> > > trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately. However,
> >> > > that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could be
> >> > > an
> >> > > exception.
> >> > >
> >> > > My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish addition
> >> > > approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take remedial
> >> > > action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added or
> >> > > water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this approach
> >> > > however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish
> >> > > cyled.
> >> > > However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine until
> >> > > they
> >> > > are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary. My
> >> > > latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0
> >> > > nitrite/0 ammonia).
> >> > >
> >> > > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank
> >> > > would
> >> > > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the
> >> > > old
> >> > > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add
> >> > > some
> >> > > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available
> >> > > over
> >> > > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
> >> > >
> >> > > Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is a
> >> > > good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products
> >> > > could
> >> > > be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully
> >> > > stock a
> >> > > tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this
> >> > > world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
> >> > >
> >> > > JMO
> >> > > Gill
> >> >
> >> > > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank
> >> > > would
> >> > > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the
> >> > > old
> >> > > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add
> >> > > some
> >> > > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was available
> >> > > over
> >> > > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
> >> >
> >> > This was exactly the reason I first tried Bio Spira. I upgraded a 29g
> >> > to a 75g, Same fish, same decor and gravel, except the new gravel that
> >> > needed to be added to the existing.
> >> > Everything went great..not even a bacertia bloom cloud.
> >> > As for the 20gH's...did those from sterile.
> >> > The 3's. 2 1/2's, and all 1g's I had used it on and had wonderful
> >> > results.
> >> > Then I had to bleach the 75g when TB came in and I once again used Bio
> >> > Spira. This time the same tank, new fish (not as many), bleached
> >> > gravel, and dechor.
> >> > I did the 75g sterile and I had great results once again.
> >> > I didn't believe in Bio Spira when it first came out.
> >> > I put it into the same pit as Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, etc. None
> >> > of these work.
> >> > Then I tried it for myself.
> >> > I will never set up another tank without it.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really works.
> >> It
> >> is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.
> >
> >> Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really works.
> >> It
> >> is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.
> >
> > I have this PetLand locally that has had it priced wrong for years.
> > They're selling the 3 oz pack for $2.49, instead of the commolny
> > charged $24.99 for the 3 oz.
> > I even went as far as saying wow...is that right? Everyone else charges
> > lie 25 bucks for the stuff. They laughed and said who'd pay that much
> > for this. I smiled, and left with my now 3 packages instead of one.
> > Years went by, I keep buyig at $2.49 per 3 oz pack. I keep my mouth
> > shut now. They'll eventually catch on, but till then, I buy then like
> > 3-4 at a time.
> > What really gets me is the fact the owner has 2 PetLand's locally. At
> > one of her stores she charges $24.99 for it, yet at this store it's
> > $2.49.
> > Crazy? Sure is. But I tried to be honest and a good person and alert
> > them to their error. They treated me like I was an idiot.
> > Uh huh...I'm an idiot alright. For not buying a box full! LOL = )~
>
> Just curiuos, why, if you have established tanks, would you need 10, 12 or
> however many packs of the stuff? Wouldn't just 1 or 2 start your first tank
> then you just seed more tanks from there? Even if I was starting friends out
> in the hobby, I guess I just don't know that many friends that want
> aquaiums. I guess I thought the stuff had a shelf life.

> Just curiuos, why, if you have established tanks, would you need 10, 12 or
> however many packs of the stuff? Wouldn't just 1 or 2 start your first tank
> then you just seed more tanks from there? Even if I was starting friends out
> in the hobby, I guess I just don't know that many friends that want
> aquaiums. I guess I thought the stuff had a shelf life.

Very good question. = )
Our town has Cyanobacteria (Bluegreen algae) in our city well water.
I have to often bleach my tanks to get rid of it. That or hit it with
antibiotics all the time which would be nuts.
So, like every few months I bleach it, add Bio Spira and the fish are
fine, no stress (except from being in 5g buckets while I'm doing it).
I have many single male Betta tanks that get bleached for the same
reason. Since Bio Spira came around, I don'thave to stress any of the
fish by doing this. I didn't bleach the large tanks like this before it
though. I just constantly battled it by scraping and scrubbing.
I also have terrible hair algae in 3 of my Betta tanks and can't seem
to get rid of it. So I am bleaching them weekly. It seems to be
working, as it been 2 weeks and only 1 of them has started up again. I
use the B. S. so the tanks don't have to constantly cycle themselves.
I also don't want it to take the time it does to seed it by using a
sack of gravel from another tank.
Another reason is using gravel from one tank to another can transfer
"nasties" that can possibly be in one tank to another. Even with
quarantining fish, things gets past that 2 week mark and may show up
long after they were put into a main tank.
I just perfer to keep them separate. I've cross contaminated 3 times
with som,e kind of Betta related virus that comes around now and then
for last 15 yrs.
I've lost entire batches of stock throughout my entire house this way,
so I keep the systems separate now.
Another reason to have it onhand is setting up a quarantine tank. WIth
Bio Spira on hand I don't have to keep a fish in there just to keep the
nitrifying bacteria alive. I set it up when I have stock for quarantine
and dump in some Bio Spira. Tanks cycled. No worries.
When I'm breeding Bettas and the males all have their own containers,
on water change day I do a 100% water change, a squirt of Bio Spira and
no worries for them either. It just makes things easier on the fish.
Since I keep finding it for next to nothing, I can use it this way.
The shelf life it fine unless opened. Once it's opened I believe it
needs to be used in 1 week. The new packages don't say that though and
it could be a marketing scheme, or not. But I've had some for nearly a
week that was opened and the bacteria weren't brown, nasty and gloppy
(dead).
It also comes in a 1oz pack too.
When I have left over and won't need it before a week's time, I just
dump the remaining into the 75g. You can't use too much and I'm just
adding more of a good thing to the tank. = )
I was wondering when somebody was going to ask me this question.
Good job! = )

[Rick]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Rick wrote:
>> "Tynk" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> > John B. wrote:
>> >> "Tynk" > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > Gill Passman wrote:
>> >> > > Elaine T wrote:
>> >> > > > I haven't wanted to jump in on the thread where people are
>> >> > > > debating
>> >> > > > about cycling, but I've had my attention drawn to a few new
>> >> > > > bacterial
>> >> > > > products that everyone should be aware of.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > According to some very experienced aquarists, all of these
>> >> > > > products
>> >> can
>> >> > > > speed a cycle. I've worked with HDL's Right Now! from
>> >> > > > http://www.hdltd.com/ and gotten very nice results. The website
>> >> > > > says
>> >> > > > sal****er, but it works equally well in fresh. Their patent is
>> >> > > > at
>> >> > > > http://tinyurl.com/8j4sb
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Tynk and many others have gotten good results with Marineland
>> >> BioSpira.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Finally, Seachem has come out with a product called Stability
>> >> > > > and
>> >> > > > some
>> >> > > > very experienced aquarists have told me that it also truly
>> >> > > > works.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Now, I still think seeding a tank from plants or an existing
>> >> > > > tank
>> >> > > > is
>> >> the
>> >> > > > best way to cycle. However, folks needing to jump-start a
>> >> > > > sterile
>> >> tank
>> >> > > > might want to try any of these three products. I wouldn't dump
>> >> > > > a
>> >> > > > full
>> >> > > > fish load into a tank after using any of them except in an
>> >> > > > emergency,
>> >> > > > however I think it's reasonable to expect a much shorter cycle
>> >> > > > that's
>> >> > > > easier on both fish and aquarist.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > All of these products seem too good to be true to me. I took a
>> >> > > look
>> >> > > at
>> >> > > the testimonials on hdltd.com and it sounds like it works but
>> >> > > being a
>> >> > > sceptic they would hardly publish anything where it said that some
>> >> > > or
>> >> > > all of the fish died... If people have success with these products
>> >> > > great
>> >> > > for them and great for the fish but I would still only use them to
>> >> > > suplement the traditional methods of cycling and certainly
>> >> > > wouldn't
>> >> > > trust them enough to put in a full load of fish immediately.
>> >> > > However,
>> >> > > that being said your example of a sterile tank environment could
>> >> > > be
>> >> > > an
>> >> > > exception.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > My tanks are now all seeded but I still take the slow fish
>> >> > > addition
>> >> > > approach and monitor the water quality daily so I can take
>> >> > > remedial
>> >> > > action (ie. reseed if low levels of ammonia/nitrite/new fish added
>> >> > > or
>> >> > > water change if toxic levels are found). I would take this
>> >> > > approach
>> >> > > however the tank was being cycled - ie. seeded, fishless or fish
>> >> > > cyled.
>> >> > > However, I do not add them onto my weekly maintenance routine
>> >> > > until
>> >> > > they
>> >> > > are fully cycled - they are maintained as, when and if necessary.
>> >> > > My
>> >> > > latest is just about to get added to the list after 3-4 weeks (0
>> >> > > nitrite/0 ammonia).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank
>> >> > > would
>> >> > > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the
>> >> > > old
>> >> > > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add
>> >> > > some
>> >> > > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was
>> >> > > available
>> >> > > over
>> >> > > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Anything that alleviates the problems for the fish with cycling is
>> >> > > a
>> >> > > good thing in the right hands but I'm worried that these products
>> >> > > could
>> >> > > be looked on as a "miracle fix" and that the temptation to fully
>> >> > > stock a
>> >> > > tank immediately might be too great for the less "patient" in this
>> >> > > world, afterall this is how they are being marketed.....
>> >> > >
>> >> > > JMO
>> >> > > Gill
>> >> >
>> >> > > I think the only point I would risk a full fish load in a new tank
>> >> > > would
>> >> > > be if I was doing a tank upgrade and everything was taken from the
>> >> > > old
>> >> > > tank including fish (and no additions). I would probably also add
>> >> > > some
>> >> > > "rapid cycling bacteria" to be on the safe side if it was
>> >> > > available
>> >> > > over
>> >> > > here in the UK (the only thing I've ever seen is Cycle).
>> >> >
>> >> > This was exactly the reason I first tried Bio Spira. I upgraded a
>> >> > 29g
>> >> > to a 75g, Same fish, same decor and gravel, except the new gravel
>> >> > that
>> >> > needed to be added to the existing.
>> >> > Everything went great..not even a bacertia bloom cloud.
>> >> > As for the 20gH's...did those from sterile.
>> >> > The 3's. 2 1/2's, and all 1g's I had used it on and had wonderful
>> >> > results.
>> >> > Then I had to bleach the 75g when TB came in and I once again used
>> >> > Bio
>> >> > Spira. This time the same tank, new fish (not as many), bleached
>> >> > gravel, and dechor.
>> >> > I did the 75g sterile and I had great results once again.
>> >> > I didn't believe in Bio Spira when it first came out.
>> >> > I put it into the same pit as Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Zyme, etc.
>> >> > None
>> >> > of these work.
>> >> > Then I tried it for myself.
>> >> > I will never set up another tank without it.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really
>> >> works.
>> >> It
>> >> is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.
>> >
>> >> Yes, from personal experience I can confirm that Bio Spira really
>> >> works.
>> >> It
>> >> is quite expensive, but it really does instantly cycle the tank.
>> >
>> > I have this PetLand locally that has had it priced wrong for years.
>> > They're selling the 3 oz pack for $2.49, instead of the commolny
>> > charged $24.99 for the 3 oz.
>> > I even went as far as saying wow...is that right? Everyone else charges
>> > lie 25 bucks for the stuff. They laughed and said who'd pay that much
>> > for this. I smiled, and left with my now 3 packages instead of one.
>> > Years went by, I keep buyig at $2.49 per 3 oz pack. I keep my mouth
>> > shut now. They'll eventually catch on, but till then, I buy then like
>> > 3-4 at a time.
>> > What really gets me is the fact the owner has 2 PetLand's locally. At
>> > one of her stores she charges $24.99 for it, yet at this store it's
>> > $2.49.
>> > Crazy? Sure is. But I tried to be honest and a good person and alert
>> > them to their error. They treated me like I was an idiot.
>> > Uh huh...I'm an idiot alright. For not buying a box full! LOL = )~
>>
>> Just curiuos, why, if you have established tanks, would you need 10, 12
>> or
>> however many packs of the stuff? Wouldn't just 1 or 2 start your first
>> tank
>> then you just seed more tanks from there? Even if I was starting friends
>> out
>> in the hobby, I guess I just don't know that many friends that want
>> aquaiums. I guess I thought the stuff had a shelf life.
>
>> Just curiuos, why, if you have established tanks, would you need 10, 12
>> or
>> however many packs of the stuff? Wouldn't just 1 or 2 start your first
>> tank
>> then you just seed more tanks from there? Even if I was starting friends
>> out
>> in the hobby, I guess I just don't know that many friends that want
>> aquaiums. I guess I thought the stuff had a shelf life.
>
> Very good question. = )
> Our town has Cyanobacteria (Bluegreen algae) in our city well water.
> I have to often bleach my tanks to get rid of it. That or hit it with
> antibiotics all the time which would be nuts.
> So, like every few months I bleach it, add Bio Spira and the fish are
> fine, no stress (except from being in 5g buckets while I'm doing it).
> I have many single male Betta tanks that get bleached for the same
> reason. Since Bio Spira came around, I don'thave to stress any of the
> fish by doing this. I didn't bleach the large tanks like this before it
> though. I just constantly battled it by scraping and scrubbing.
> I also have terrible hair algae in 3 of my Betta tanks and can't seem
> to get rid of it. So I am bleaching them weekly. It seems to be
> working, as it been 2 weeks and only 1 of them has started up again. I
> use the B. S. so the tanks don't have to constantly cycle themselves.
> I also don't want it to take the time it does to seed it by using a
> sack of gravel from another tank.
> Another reason is using gravel from one tank to another can transfer
> "nasties" that can possibly be in one tank to another. Even with
> quarantining fish, things gets past that 2 week mark and may show up
> long after they were put into a main tank.
> I just perfer to keep them separate. I've cross contaminated 3 times
> with som,e kind of Betta related virus that comes around now and then
> for last 15 yrs.
> I've lost entire batches of stock throughout my entire house this way,
> so I keep the systems separate now.
> Another reason to have it onhand is setting up a quarantine tank. WIth
> Bio Spira on hand I don't have to keep a fish in there just to keep the
> nitrifying bacteria alive. I set it up when I have stock for quarantine
> and dump in some Bio Spira. Tanks cycled. No worries.
> When I'm breeding Bettas and the males all have their own containers,
> on water change day I do a 100% water change, a squirt of Bio Spira and
> no worries for them either. It just makes things easier on the fish.
> Since I keep finding it for next to nothing, I can use it this way.
> The shelf life it fine unless opened. Once it's opened I believe it
> needs to be used in 1 week. The new packages don't say that though and
> it could be a marketing scheme, or not. But I've had some for nearly a
> week that was opened and the bacteria weren't brown, nasty and gloppy
> (dead).
> It also comes in a 1oz pack too.
> When I have left over and won't need it before a week's time, I just
> dump the remaining into the 75g. You can't use too much and I'm just
> adding more of a good thing to the tank. = )
> I was wondering when somebody was going to ask me this question.
> Good job! = )
>
Equally good answer :)

[IDzine01]

TYNK, if you're bleaching the betta tanks weekly you might just want to
skip the B.S. altogether in just those tanks. It hardly seems worth it
when you're just going to do another full water change a week later.
Maybe I misread...

Also, can you tell us what your findings have been regarding the rate
in which the bio-spira cycles your tanks? I've have used it several
times myself and often recommend it but I have never had it cycle my
tank in 24 hours like it says. It has taken between 4 - 10 days to work
when I have used it. I think it is still a great improvment over the 4
weeks it can take to do it naturally. If you are using it all the time
you may be able to offer a better "average" for cycling time.

thanks,
Christie