correct filtration for a 220gal tank

[xbit]

My current tank is 55g. I got it back in the early 90s. It's been a
great tank thats served me and my freshwater fish well over the years.

I recently purchased an upgrade for $550. it's a used 220gal tank (7'
long 2' thick). it came with a magnum 350 with the 2 bio wheels, 5
powerheads to keep the water moving, rocks, decorations, heaters, stand
and canopy. really, it has everything need to get it up and running.
But, I have a question or two concerning filtration.

I know the amount of filtration you need depends on the amount of fish
you plan on housing in the tank. but I would rather over filtrate than
under :) this is what I was thinking of doing, please let me know your
thoughts:


Primary filtration:

2 magnum 350's w/ bio wheels. (this will give the tank a total of 4 bio
wheels)

Secondary filtration:

1 72"x18" Undergravel filter w/ 4 tubes and 4 powerheads.

Planed fish:

1) 1 large oscar
2) 1 large clown knife
3) 2 large tinfoil barbs
4) 2 large bala sharks
5) 1 large sucker mouth cat
6) 4 med clown loach
7) 1 med firemouth

Thank you for your thoughts on my planned setup and fish. BTW, currently
I own the Oscar, clown knife, sucker and firemouth.

[NetMax]

"xbit" <" "> wrote in message ...
> My current tank is 55g. I got it back in the early 90s. It's been a
> great tank thats served me and my freshwater fish well over the years.
>
> I recently purchased an upgrade for $550. it's a used 220gal tank (7'
> long 2' thick). it came with a magnum 350 with the 2 bio wheels, 5
> powerheads to keep the water moving, rocks, decorations, heaters,
> stand and canopy. really, it has everything need to get it up and
> running. But, I have a question or two concerning filtration.
>
> I know the amount of filtration you need depends on the amount of fish
> you plan on housing in the tank. but I would rather over filtrate than
> under :) this is what I was thinking of doing, please let me know your
> thoughts:

Filtration type & quantity is influenced by many factors. In your case,
you'll have a high carniverous fish-load. A tank of plant eaters
requires less from filtration systems than carnivores (as all Oscar
owners come to discover ;~).

> Primary filtration:
>
> 2 magnum 350's w/ bio wheels. (this will give the tank a total of 4 bio
> wheels)
>
> Secondary filtration:
>
> 1 72"x18" Undergravel filter w/ 4 tubes and 4 powerheads.

I recommend that you put down a plastic screen to protect the UGF plates
from being exposed by the Oscar and Firemouth's excavations. Something
similar to Home Depot sku # A110-881.

> Planed fish:
>
> 1) 1 large oscar
> 2) 1 large clown knife
> 3) 2 large tinfoil barbs
> 4) 2 large bala sharks
> 5) 1 large sucker mouth cat
> 6) 4 med clown loach
> 7) 1 med firemouth
>
> Thank you for your thoughts on my planned setup and fish. BTW,
> currently I own the Oscar, clown knife, sucker and firemouth.

I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting the
filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out a lot
of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's pleated
paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens for
them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the bottom
front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting powerfilter
intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).

jmo, hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[xbit]

Outstanding! thank you for your expert opinion. that was the best I've
received to date. I will rethink my setup before it goes live.

> NetMax wrote:
> "xbit" <" "> wrote in message ...
>
>>My current tank is 55g. I got it back in the early 90s. It's been a
>>great tank thats served me and my freshwater fish well over the years.
>>
>>I recently purchased an upgrade for $550. it's a used 220gal tank (7'
>>long 2' thick). it came with a magnum 350 with the 2 bio wheels, 5
>>powerheads to keep the water moving, rocks, decorations, heaters,
>>stand and canopy. really, it has everything need to get it up and
>>running. But, I have a question or two concerning filtration.
>>
>>I know the amount of filtration you need depends on the amount of fish
>>you plan on housing in the tank. but I would rather over filtrate than
>>under :) this is what I was thinking of doing, please let me know your
>>thoughts:
>
>
> Filtration type & quantity is influenced by many factors. In your case,
> you'll have a high carniverous fish-load. A tank of plant eaters
> requires less from filtration systems than carnivores (as all Oscar
> owners come to discover ;~).
>
>
>>Primary filtration:
>>
>>2 magnum 350's w/ bio wheels. (this will give the tank a total of 4 bio
>>wheels)
>>
>>Secondary filtration:
>>
>>1 72"x18" Undergravel filter w/ 4 tubes and 4 powerheads.
>
>
> I recommend that you put down a plastic screen to protect the UGF plates
> from being exposed by the Oscar and Firemouth's excavations. Something
> similar to Home Depot sku # A110-881.
>
>
>>Planed fish:
>>
>>1) 1 large oscar
>>2) 1 large clown knife
>>3) 2 large tinfoil barbs
>>4) 2 large bala sharks
>>5) 1 large sucker mouth cat
>>6) 4 med clown loach
>>7) 1 med firemouth
>>
>>Thank you for your thoughts on my planned setup and fish. BTW,
>>currently I own the Oscar, clown knife, sucker and firemouth.
>
>
> I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting the
> filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out a lot
> of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's pleated
> paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
> maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
> catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens for
> them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
> installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
> arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the bottom
> front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting powerfilter
> intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).
>
> jmo, hth

[xbit]

I'm having a hard time locating any AC500's on http://www.petsolutions.com/

Where would be the best place to find equipment of this type?

also, I don't feed my Oscar meat :) just big pellets and bloodworms.

> NetMax wrote:
>
> I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting the
> filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out a lot
> of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's pleated
> paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
> maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
> catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens for
> them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
> installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
> arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the bottom
> front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting powerfilter
> intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).
>
> jmo, hth

[Elaine T]

xbit wrote:
> I'm having a hard time locating any AC500's on http://www.petsolutions.com/
>
> Where would be the best place to find equipment of this type?
>
> also, I don't feed my Oscar meat :) just big pellets and bloodworms.
>
> > NetMax wrote:
>
>>
>> I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting
>> the filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out
>> a lot of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's
>> pleated paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
>> maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
>> catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens
>> for them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
>> installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
>> arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the
>> bottom front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting
>> powerfilter intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).
>>
>> jmo, hth

NexMax used the old name for an AquaClear 110. Great filters!
http://www.petsolutions.com/AquaClear+110+Power+Filter-I-15510620-I-.aspx

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Rick]

Holy cow, that's a great price too. The cheapest locally here is $66 and the
most expensive is $119.
"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> xbit wrote:
>> I'm having a hard time locating any AC500's on
>> http://www.petsolutions.com/
>>
>> Where would be the best place to find equipment of this type?
>>
>> also, I don't feed my Oscar meat :) just big pellets and bloodworms.
>>
>> > NetMax wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting
>>> the filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out a
>>> lot of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's
>>> pleated paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
>>> maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
>>> catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens for
>>> them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
>>> installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
>>> arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the
>>> bottom front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting
>>> powerfilter intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).
>>>
>>> jmo, hth
>
> NexMax used the old name for an AquaClear 110. Great filters!
> http://www.petsolutions.com/AquaClear+110+Power+Filter-I-15510620-I-.aspx
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Rick]

If you do buy this, buy a second sponge. see my post on AquaClear vs. Magnum
vs. Emperor?
"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> xbit wrote:
>> I'm having a hard time locating any AC500's on
>> http://www.petsolutions.com/
>>
>> Where would be the best place to find equipment of this type?
>>
>> also, I don't feed my Oscar meat :) just big pellets and bloodworms.
>>
>> > NetMax wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting
>>> the filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out a
>>> lot of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's
>>> pleated paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
>>> maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
>>> catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens for
>>> them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
>>> installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
>>> arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the
>>> bottom front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting
>>> powerfilter intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).
>>>
>>> jmo, hth
>
> NexMax used the old name for an AquaClear 110. Great filters!
> http://www.petsolutions.com/AquaClear+110+Power+Filter-I-15510620-I-.aspx
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Rick]

OK, I bought one :) Best price I've seen on these. here is the next best I
saw
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=3610

The rest are way out there.


"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> xbit wrote:
>> I'm having a hard time locating any AC500's on
>> http://www.petsolutions.com/
>>
>> Where would be the best place to find equipment of this type?
>>
>> also, I don't feed my Oscar meat :) just big pellets and bloodworms.
>>
>> > NetMax wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting
>>> the filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out a
>>> lot of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's
>>> pleated paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
>>> maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
>>> catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens for
>>> them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
>>> installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
>>> arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the
>>> bottom front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting
>>> powerfilter intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).
>>>
>>> jmo, hth
>
> NexMax used the old name for an AquaClear 110. Great filters!
> http://www.petsolutions.com/AquaClear+110+Power+Filter-I-15510620-I-.aspx
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[NetMax]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> xbit wrote:
>> I'm having a hard time locating any AC500's on
>> http://www.petsolutions.com/
>>
>> Where would be the best place to find equipment of this type?
>>
>> also, I don't feed my Oscar meat :) just big pellets and bloodworms.
>>
>> > NetMax wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting
>>> the filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out a
>>> lot of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's
>>> pleated paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
>>> maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
>>> catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens for
>>> them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
>>> installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
>>> arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the
>>> bottom front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting
>>> powerfilter intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).
>>>
>>> jmo, hth
>
> NexMax used the old name for an AquaClear 110. Great filters!
> http://www.petsolutions.com/AquaClear+110+Power+Filter-I-15510620-I-.aspx
>
> --
> Elaine T

Thanks Elaine. Did I ever curse blue smoke at my Hagen rep when they
started renumbering the filters, except my rep was cursing as loud as me
because she hated it too. Talk about moronic marketing.

For xbit, the AC110 (*&$!) is like a farm tractor. It's a very steady
plough horse which will run a long time, but it's not a finesse filter (ie:
water polishing) or a very refined filter (will rattle for a few days, and
then only the cover occasionally). It's a good match to other filters on
large tanks (widens your filtering spectrum). A sump filter as Elaine
mentioned is another good option for larger tanks. I'm toying with a giant
sponge filter for my next set-up.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[xbit]

I just got two :) I'll post my finial filtration solution shortly.

(now, I just need to re-wire my house ;)

> Rick wrote:
> OK, I bought one :) Best price I've seen on these. here is the next best I
> saw
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=3610
>
> The rest are way out there.
>
>
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>xbit wrote:
>>
>>>I'm having a hard time locating any AC500's on
>>>http://www.petsolutions.com/
>>>
>>>Where would be the best place to find equipment of this type?
>>>
>>>also, I don't feed my Oscar meat :) just big pellets and bloodworms.
>>>
>>> > NetMax wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think that two Magnum 350s and a UGF will not come close to meeting
>>>>the filtration requirements for these fish. These characters put out a
>>>>lot of solid waste. Where will it go? To quickly clog the Magnum's
>>>>pleated paper filter cartridge or to clog your gravel. This is a high
>>>>maintenance setup. I would put some AC500s in, with intakes low (crap
>>>>catchers), raise the intakes of the Magnums and install wide screens for
>>>>them (to maximize their water polishing capability), and consider
>>>>installing sponges on the powerheads and running RUGF. Then carefully
>>>>arrange your water flow to come down the back, loop and across the
>>>>bottom front of the tank to carry all detritus to the waiting
>>>>powerfilter intakes (which you can quickly empty/rinse as required).
>>>>
>>>>jmo, hth
>>
>>NexMax used the old name for an AquaClear 110. Great filters!
>>http://www.petsolutions.com/AquaClear+110+Power+Filter-I-15510620-I-.aspx
>>
>>--
>>Elaine T __
>>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>
>

[xbit]

I wanted to take the time to thank everyone for your help, ideas and
thoughts. Again, I've had my 55gal going for some time now so I'm what
you would call a newbie w/ the new technology that's out. Thank you
NetMax for your advice awesome webpage. So far I've spent quite a few
hours reading and learning.

I ended up w/ the following:

one magnum 350 pro (it came w/ the 220gal tank)
two AC110s
one 72"x18" Undergravel filter w/ 4 tubes and 4 sponged powerheads

I might endup cutting back on the number of fish that I plan on
stocking. I've always wanted red tailed tinfoil barbs, but due to the
size I just might omit them. The bala shark is one of my most liked
fish, so I will go w/ them for the dither needs of this tank.

I'm also wondering just how big my clown knife is going to get. I see in
the wild they get up to 40"!! goodness! he might eat my Oscar :) i hope
he remembers that my oscar let him live when he was just 3". He's about
6" now.



> xbit wrote:
> My current tank is 55g. I got it back in the early 90s. It's been a
> great tank thats served me and my freshwater fish well over the years.
>
> I recently purchased an upgrade for $550. it's a used 220gal tank (7'
> long 2' thick). it came with a magnum 350 with the 2 bio wheels, 5
> powerheads to keep the water moving, rocks, decorations, heaters, stand
> and canopy. really, it has everything need to get it up and running.
> But, I have a question or two concerning filtration.
>
> I know the amount of filtration you need depends on the amount of fish
> you plan on housing in the tank. but I would rather over filtrate than
> under :) this is what I was thinking of doing, please let me know your
> thoughts:
>
>
> Primary filtration:
>
> 2 magnum 350's w/ bio wheels. (this will give the tank a total of 4 bio
> wheels)
>
> Secondary filtration:
>
> 1 72"x18" Undergravel filter w/ 4 tubes and 4 powerheads.
>
> Planed fish:
>
> 1) 1 large oscar
> 2) 1 large clown knife
> 3) 2 large tinfoil barbs
> 4) 2 large bala sharks
> 5) 1 large sucker mouth cat
> 6) 4 med clown loach
> 7) 1 med firemouth
>
> Thank you for your thoughts on my planned setup and fish. BTW, currently
> I own the Oscar, clown knife, sucker and firemouth.

[NetMax]

"xbit" <" "> wrote in message ...
>I wanted to take the time to thank everyone for your help, ideas and
>thoughts. Again, I've had my 55gal going for some time now so I'm what
>you would call a newbie w/ the new technology that's out. Thank you
>NetMax for your advice awesome webpage. So far I've spent quite a few
>hours reading and learning.
>
> I ended up w/ the following:
>
> one magnum 350 pro (it came w/ the 220gal tank)
> two AC110s
> one 72"x18" Undergravel filter w/ 4 tubes and 4 sponged powerheads
>
> I might endup cutting back on the number of fish that I plan on
> stocking. I've always wanted red tailed tinfoil barbs, but due to the
> size I just might omit them. The bala shark is one of my most liked
> fish, so I will go w/ them for the dither needs of this tank.
>
> I'm also wondering just how big my clown knife is going to get. I see
> in the wild they get up to 40"!! goodness! he might eat my Oscar :) i
> hope he remembers that my oscar let him live when he was just 3". He's
> about 6" now.
>
<snip>
>> 1) 1 large oscar
>> 2) 1 large clown knife
>> 3) 2 large tinfoil barbs
>> 4) 2 large bala sharks
>> 5) 1 large sucker mouth cat
>> 6) 4 med clown loach
>> 7) 1 med firemouth

<snip>

I'm glad you're enjoying the website *and* that you are thinking of
scaling back your fish load. You might want to run the tank for a while
to become accustomed to it. Tanks from 60g to 180g are a change of
scale, but I find that above 180g, previously easy or relatively easy
tasks become a bit of a challenge. Simple things like not being able
to reach the bottom (to clean algae, reconnect pipes and heaters, or to
correct the Oscar's daily redecoration attempts) become mechanical
challenges. Also floor reinforcement, medicating and temporary fish
accommodations during repairs is somewhat 'interesting'.

The down side of adding fish later is that they will always need to be
bigger than your Oscar's 'eyes' (and Oscars see objects smaller than they
really are ;~). I find that you need to have relatively large containers
or tanks (50-90g) to stage fish up to a 220g with large carnivores (I've
used pond liners for this purpose).

Returning to fish load, fish grow bigger and faster in larger tanks, so
expect that some of them *will* reach their adult size, and they will
need a lot of swimming room. The Red fin Tinfoils are a good choice
(imo) as they seem to co-habitate well with Oscars (active but not
overly), and you can get away with some plants (Anubius, Hornwort etc).

As far as I know, both Balas and Tinfoils can reach 16" in length, so you
can expect at least 12-13" in your tank (depends on diet, genetics etc).
Compared to Tinfoils, Balas are a more active, slimmer, faster and more
prone to jumping out. If going with Tinfoils, I would get 4 or 5 to keep
3. With Balas, I would get 6 to keep 4. I've read that Clown Knives top
out around 18" in captivity, so your Oscar is relatively safe.

ps: If anyone offers you a Pacu because you have a large tank, you might
want to decline their offer. I've had one outgrow a 500g tank (too
short) and then an 800g pond (too shallow). There is actually a
significant difference between a 16" fish and a 22 to 24" fish. Every
inch is several pounds (Pacus get over 50 lbs!). In theory you could
raise them for a BBQ dinner (if they have never been medicated in their
10 year life), but I could never do it. They do cook wild Oscars in
Brazil.
--
www.NetMax.tk