water vs. water

[Paul]

.... I am still waiting for my RO/DI booster pump to arrive, meanwhile could
I use distillated water instead of RO/DI?

[Michael Lawford]

Why not just get some RO water from your LFS and add it manually?

~m

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> ... I am still waiting for my RO/DI booster pump to arrive, meanwhile
> could I use distillated water instead of RO/DI?
>
>
>

[Pszemol]

"Paul" > wrote in message ...
> ... I am still waiting for my RO/DI booster pump to arrive, meanwhile
> could I use distillated water instead of RO/DI?

Yes, but if you have reef tank make sure it is not made with copper-based equipment.

[kim gross]

Pszemol wrote:
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> ... I am still waiting for my RO/DI booster pump to arrive, meanwhile
>> could I use distillated water instead of RO/DI?
>
>
> Yes, but if you have reef tank make sure it is not made with
> copper-based equipment.
You do have to watch for this with some distillers they can use copper
condensing units in them, which will release some copper into the water,
which can build up in your tank.

Kim

[Boomer]

You are waiting for RO/D unit or a RO/DI booster pump ? Will this booster pump produce a
pressure that is acceptable to the RO/DI. How high a pressure dose it produce ? What is
you tap water pressure. ?

--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php


Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


"Paul" > wrote in message
...
: ... I am still waiting for my RO/DI booster pump to arrive, meanwhile could
: I use distillated water instead of RO/DI?
:
:
:

[TekCat]

I already have RO/DI unit. Tomorrow the pump should arrive (finally!!!) :)
I do not know the exact pressure from my faucet, but the RO/DI water
dripping, rather than flowing from the output of the unit. I live in
apartment on third floor, so I figured, that it is way too low.


"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> You are waiting for RO/D unit or a RO/DI booster pump ? Will this booster
> pump produce a
> pressure that is acceptable to the RO/DI. How high a pressure dose it
> produce ? What is
> you tap water pressure. ?
>
> --
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
>
> Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
> Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS
>
> If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
>
>
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
> : ... I am still waiting for my RO/DI booster pump to arrive, meanwhile
> could
> : I use distillated water instead of RO/DI?
> :
> :
> :
>
>

[Boomer]

Small home type RO units only make a few gals / day , so how much does yours make ? If
your line pressure is low there will be a much lower output. Most home units work best at
about 65 psi. With a line pressure of say 30 psi the output will be about cut in half.
This is where the booster pump comes in. RO membranes have a certain pressure value which
should not be exceeded and if done so will blow-out the membrane. Most booster pumps put
out 80 psi. and some are adjustable. Most tap water lines run around 30-50 psi but may be
a little higher or lower. Higher pressure will not only make more RO but it will also be
more pure with less waste water. Still, you need to find out what pressure your RO is
rated at. If, for example, your RO was rate at 60 psi and you subjected it to greater than
that, there is going to be problems.

--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php


Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


"TekCat" > wrote in message
...
:I already have RO/DI unit. Tomorrow the pump should arrive (finally!!!) :)
: I do not know the exact pressure from my faucet, but the RO/DI water
: dripping, rather than flowing from the output of the unit. I live in
: apartment on third floor, so I figured, that it is way too low.
:
:
: "Boomer" > wrote in message
: ...
: > You are waiting for RO/D unit or a RO/DI booster pump ? Will this booster
: > pump produce a
: > pressure that is acceptable to the RO/DI. How high a pressure dose it
: > produce ? What is
: > you tap water pressure. ?
: >
: > --
: > Boomer
: >
: > Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
: > http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
: >
: >
: > Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
: > Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS
: >
: > If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
: >
: >
: > "Paul" > wrote in message
: > ...
: > : ... I am still waiting for my RO/DI booster pump to arrive, meanwhile
: > could
: > : I use distillated water instead of RO/DI?
: > :
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:

[Pszemol]

"Boomer" > wrote in message ...
> Small home type RO units only make a few gals / day , so how much does yours make ? If
> your line pressure is low there will be a much lower output. Most home units work best at
> about 65 psi. With a line pressure of say 30 psi the output will be about cut in half.
> This is where the booster pump comes in. RO membranes have a certain pressure value which
> should not be exceeded and if done so will blow-out the membrane.

Is there an easy way to make booster pump cycle less often ?
I tried to hook-up the booster pump to my unit but the pump
seemed too strong and it pulsed 2-3 times per second causing
noise unbearable for my family.

p.s.
Do you maybe know what is the maximum pressure for membranes sold by KENT ?

[Boomer]

I do not know what you mean by cycle. A booster pump should keep a constant pressure on
the RO membrane. Cycling would be self-defeating, for if the pressure changes, do to a
on-off phase, there would be a continuous pressure difference on the membrane.

Or are you talking about a RO container pressure pump, that keeps made RO water in a
container at x pressure to pump to y place.

For the Kent unit, just go to their website and e-mail them.


--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php


Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


"Pszemol" > wrote in message ...
: "Boomer" > wrote in message ...
: > Small home type RO units only make a few gals / day , so how much does yours make ? If
: > your line pressure is low there will be a much lower output. Most home units work best
at
: > about 65 psi. With a line pressure of say 30 psi the output will be about cut in half.
: > This is where the booster pump comes in. RO membranes have a certain pressure value
which
: > should not be exceeded and if done so will blow-out the membrane.
:
: Is there an easy way to make booster pump cycle less often ?
: I tried to hook-up the booster pump to my unit but the pump
: seemed too strong and it pulsed 2-3 times per second causing
: noise unbearable for my family.
:
: p.s.
: Do you maybe know what is the maximum pressure for membranes sold by KENT ?

[Pszemol]

"Boomer" > wrote in message ...
>I do not know what you mean by cycle. A booster pump should keep a constant pressure on
> the RO membrane. Cycling would be self-defeating, for if the pressure changes, do to a
> on-off phase, there would be a continuous pressure difference on the membrane.
>
> Or are you talking about a RO container pressure pump, that keeps made RO water in a
> container at x pressure to pump to y place.

OK, more details...
I have got Aquatec DDP5800, what they call "a demand/delivery pump".
Hooked it up to my KENT 10gpd barebone RO system and turned the pump on.
There was a pressure gauge in between the pump and the prefilters...

When the pump was cycling on and off on the limit switch I saw the gauge
going from the 40PSI (my tap water static pressure) to 65-70 PSI the moment
the pump was on. 1/4, maybe 1/8 of the second later the pump turned off itself on
the pressure switch and the pressure started decreasing to the 40PSI when the
pump turned itself on again... This cycling seem to be due to the fact the pump
had large capacity and pumped pressure high up really quick reaching the limit.
The water did not have the way to escape through the RO filter that quickly so
the pump turned off. When the pressure relatively slowly dropped back to the
40PSI the pump turned itself back again...

I almost feel like I need a "water capacitor", using kind of electrical analogy...
Some flexible device/container which could take the pressure from the pump
and release it over time feeding the need for water of the RO filter... Or a much
smaller capacity pump which will just barely keep up with RO filter demand.

[kim gross]

Your water capacitor is a bladder tank, or pressure tank. It is
normally a metal tank with a rubber bladder in it with a fitting on one
end for the water and the other for air to pressurize the bladder.
Small ones are very common in new houses to help reduce the damage from
water hammer, large ones are used on wells so the pump does not have to
run all of the time. You should be able to find some at your local home
improvement stores in the section that has the pumps.

Kim





Pszemol wrote:
> "Boomer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I do not know what you mean by cycle. A booster pump should keep a
>> constant pressure on the RO membrane. Cycling would be self-defeating,
>> for if the pressure changes, do to a on-off phase, there would be a
>> continuous pressure difference on the membrane.
>>
>> Or are you talking about a RO container pressure pump, that keeps made
>> RO water in a container at x pressure to pump to y place.
>
>
> OK, more details...
> I have got Aquatec DDP5800, what they call "a demand/delivery pump".
> Hooked it up to my KENT 10gpd barebone RO system and turned the pump on.
> There was a pressure gauge in between the pump and the prefilters...
>
> When the pump was cycling on and off on the limit switch I saw the gauge
> going from the 40PSI (my tap water static pressure) to 65-70 PSI the moment
> the pump was on. 1/4, maybe 1/8 of the second later the pump turned off
> itself on
> the pressure switch and the pressure started decreasing to the 40PSI
> when the
> pump turned itself on again... This cycling seem to be due to the fact
> the pump
> had large capacity and pumped pressure high up really quick reaching the
> limit.
> The water did not have the way to escape through the RO filter that
> quickly so
> the pump turned off. When the pressure relatively slowly dropped back to
> the
> 40PSI the pump turned itself back again...
>
> I almost feel like I need a "water capacitor", using kind of electrical
> analogy...
> Some flexible device/container which could take the pressure from the pump
> and release it over time feeding the need for water of the RO filter...
> Or a much
> smaller capacity pump which will just barely keep up with RO filter demand.

[Pszemol]

"kim gross" > wrote in message ...
> Your water capacitor is a bladder tank, or pressure tank. It is
> normally a metal tank with a rubber bladder in it with a fitting on one
> end for the water and the other for air to pressurize the bladder.
> Small ones are very common in new houses to help reduce the damage from
> water hammer, large ones are used on wells so the pump does not have to
> run all of the time. You should be able to find some at your local home
> improvement stores in the section that has the pumps.

I was thinking about it, but this bladder tank is usualy pumped to 10PSI
so when I put it in the place in the system which has running pressure
60-70PSI would not give me desired effects...
I could pump the bladder tank to higher pressure, something like 80PSI
but I am not sure if the design of such bladder tank allows for this...

Also, a bladder tank is quite large, so combined with my drinking water
bladder tank at the output already would not fit under my kitchen sink ;-)
BTW - Boomer did not mention bladder tank, just adding the booster pump,
so I asked how to make the pump not cycling... I am just curious, since
I have never seen a working filter installation with a booster pump before :-)

[Boomer]

That is not a RO booster pump, you have the wrong one. That is a container pump. The
booster pump is the Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump or 6800

Aquatec DDP-5800 Delivery Booster Pump (YOURS)

The DDP-5800 pumps can draw water from a ***holding tank and pressurize it***, or boost
the pressure from a low pressure source.


Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump( WHAT YOU NEED)

For RO Systems*** Over 50 GPM ***- CDP-8800 Series High Flow). The CDP-8800 Series pumps
are also compatible with most hydraulic shut-off valves with the optional PSW shut off
tank controller switch. Distinguishing Features & Operating Benefits: Outstanding
toughness, durability. Designed for 30,000+ operating hours. ***Adjustable pressure boost
between 40-120 PSI.***

Aquatec CDP-6800 Booster Pump.

6800 Series (Low Flow). For membranes ***up to 50 GPD.***


--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php


Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


"Pszemol" > wrote in message ...
: "Boomer" > wrote in message
...
: >I do not know what you mean by cycle. A booster pump should keep a constant pressure on
: > the RO membrane. Cycling would be self-defeating, for if the pressure changes, do to a
: > on-off phase, there would be a continuous pressure difference on the membrane.
: >
: > Or are you talking about a RO container pressure pump, that keeps made RO water in a
: > container at x pressure to pump to y place.
:
: OK, more details...
: I have got Aquatec DDP5800, what they call "a demand/delivery pump".
: Hooked it up to my KENT 10gpd barebone RO system and turned the pump on.
: There was a pressure gauge in between the pump and the prefilters...
:
: When the pump was cycling on and off on the limit switch I saw the gauge
: going from the 40PSI (my tap water static pressure) to 65-70 PSI the moment
: the pump was on. 1/4, maybe 1/8 of the second later the pump turned off itself on
: the pressure switch and the pressure started decreasing to the 40PSI when the
: pump turned itself on again... This cycling seem to be due to the fact the pump
: had large capacity and pumped pressure high up really quick reaching the limit.
: The water did not have the way to escape through the RO filter that quickly so
: the pump turned off. When the pressure relatively slowly dropped back to the
: 40PSI the pump turned itself back again...
:
: I almost feel like I need a "water capacitor", using kind of electrical analogy...
: Some flexible device/container which could take the pressure from the pump
: and release it over time feeding the need for water of the RO filter... Or a much
: smaller capacity pump which will just barely keep up with RO filter demand.

[Pszemol]

"Boomer" > wrote in message ...
> That is not a RO booster pump, you have the wrong one. That is a container pump. The
> booster pump is the Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump or 6800
>
> Aquatec DDP-5800 Delivery Booster Pump (YOURS)
>
> The DDP-5800 pumps can draw water from a ***holding tank and pressurize it***,
> or boost the pressure from a low pressure source.

I remember reading this exactly text on their website...
The last part of the description about boosting pressure from a low pressure source
made me buy 5800 model and not look further... :-( I have low pressure source,
40PSI is low :-) and I need to boost it higher to 80PSI :-)))

Well, in this situation, I have one perfectly good DDP-5800 pump for sale :)

[TekCat]

Well, yesterday I got my pump, it is Aquatec CDP-8800, hooked it up inline
between kitchen faucet and the RO 125GPD unit from dvoneb. Well, I
definitely saw the improvement, instead of 2GPD now I got 6GPD, however, it
is not even near the 125GPD. I am going crazy here. Any thoughts?




"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> That is not a RO booster pump, you have the wrong one. That is a container
> pump. The
> booster pump is the Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump or 6800
>
> Aquatec DDP-5800 Delivery Booster Pump (YOURS)
>
> The DDP-5800 pumps can draw water from a ***holding tank and pressurize
> it***, or boost
> the pressure from a low pressure source.
>
>
> Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump( WHAT YOU NEED)
>
> For RO Systems*** Over 50 GPM ***- CDP-8800 Series High Flow). The
> CDP-8800 Series pumps
> are also compatible with most hydraulic shut-off valves with the optional
> PSW shut off
> tank controller switch. Distinguishing Features & Operating Benefits:
> Outstanding
> toughness, durability. Designed for 30,000+ operating hours. ***Adjustable
> pressure boost
> between 40-120 PSI.***
>
> Aquatec CDP-6800 Booster Pump.
>
> 6800 Series (Low Flow). For membranes ***up to 50 GPD.***
>
>
> --
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
>
> Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
> Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS
>
> If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
>
>
> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> ...
> : "Boomer" > wrote in message
> ...
> : >I do not know what you mean by cycle. A booster pump should keep a
> constant pressure on
> : > the RO membrane. Cycling would be self-defeating, for if the pressure
> changes, do to a
> : > on-off phase, there would be a continuous pressure difference on the
> membrane.
> : >
> : > Or are you talking about a RO container pressure pump, that keeps made
> RO water in a
> : > container at x pressure to pump to y place.
> :
> : OK, more details...
> : I have got Aquatec DDP5800, what they call "a demand/delivery pump".
> : Hooked it up to my KENT 10gpd barebone RO system and turned the pump on.
> : There was a pressure gauge in between the pump and the prefilters...
> :
> : When the pump was cycling on and off on the limit switch I saw the gauge
> : going from the 40PSI (my tap water static pressure) to 65-70 PSI the
> moment
> : the pump was on. 1/4, maybe 1/8 of the second later the pump turned off
> itself on
> : the pressure switch and the pressure started decreasing to the 40PSI
> when the
> : pump turned itself on again... This cycling seem to be due to the fact
> the pump
> : had large capacity and pumped pressure high up really quick reaching the
> limit.
> : The water did not have the way to escape through the RO filter that
> quickly so
> : the pump turned off. When the pressure relatively slowly dropped back to
> the
> : 40PSI the pump turned itself back again...
> :
> : I almost feel like I need a "water capacitor", using kind of electrical
> analogy...
> : Some flexible device/container which could take the pressure from the
> pump
> : and release it over time feeding the need for water of the RO filter...
> Or a much
> : smaller capacity pump which will just barely keep up with RO filter
> demand.
>
>

[Pszemol]

"TekCat" > wrote in message ...
> Well, yesterday I got my pump, it is Aquatec CDP-8800, hooked it up inline
> between kitchen faucet and the RO 125GPD unit from dvoneb. Well, I
> definitely saw the improvement, instead of 2GPD now I got 6GPD, however,
> it is not even near the 125GPD. I am going crazy here. Any thoughts?

What is your tap water temperature and how does it match
the nominal temperature required by the membrane manufacturer ?

[Wayne Sallee]

Wow that's great ! your now getting 5gpd instead of 2gpd!
That RO unit is going got pay for itself in no time !

hehehe

hmmm,, maybe the flow restricters are defective. What kind
of flowrate are you geting from the brine line?

I think I would be calling the manufacture. You might also
chech the flow rate going into the the actual ro part,
just to make sure that it is going through the prefilters
ok. It most likely is, but it could be ruled out, and then
call the manufacture.


Wayne Sallee



TekCat wrote:
> Well, yesterday I got my pump, it is Aquatec CDP-8800, hooked it up inline
> between kitchen faucet and the RO 125GPD unit from dvoneb. Well, I
> definitely saw the improvement, instead of 2GPD now I got 6GPD, however, it
> is not even near the 125GPD. I am going crazy here. Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
> "Boomer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>That is not a RO booster pump, you have the wrong one. That is a container
>>pump. The
>>booster pump is the Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump or 6800
>>
>>Aquatec DDP-5800 Delivery Booster Pump (YOURS)
>>
>>The DDP-5800 pumps can draw water from a ***holding tank and pressurize
>>it***, or boost
>>the pressure from a low pressure source.
>>
>>
>>Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump( WHAT YOU NEED)
>>
>>For RO Systems*** Over 50 GPM ***- CDP-8800 Series High Flow). The
>>CDP-8800 Series pumps
>>are also compatible with most hydraulic shut-off valves with the optional
>>PSW shut off
>>tank controller switch. Distinguishing Features & Operating Benefits:
>>Outstanding
>>toughness, durability. Designed for 30,000+ operating hours. ***Adjustable
>>pressure boost
>>between 40-120 PSI.***
>>
>>Aquatec CDP-6800 Booster Pump.
>>
>>6800 Series (Low Flow). For membranes ***up to 50 GPD.***
>>
>>
>>--
>>Boomer
>>
>>Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
>>http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>>

>>Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
>>Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS
>>
>>If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
>>
>>
>>"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
>>: "Boomer" > wrote in message
...
>>: >I do not know what you mean by cycle. A booster pump should keep a
>>constant pressure on
>>: > the RO membrane. Cycling would be self-defeating, for if the pressure
>>changes, do to a
>>: > on-off phase, there would be a continuous pressure difference on the
>>membrane.
>>: >
>>: > Or are you talking about a RO container pressure pump, that keeps made
>>RO water in a
>>: > container at x pressure to pump to y place.
>>:
>>: OK, more details...
>>: I have got Aquatec DDP5800, what they call "a demand/delivery pump".
>>: Hooked it up to my KENT 10gpd barebone RO system and turned the pump on.
>>: There was a pressure gauge in between the pump and the prefilters...
>>:
>>: When the pump was cycling on and off on the limit switch I saw the gauge
>>: going from the 40PSI (my tap water static pressure) to 65-70 PSI the
>>moment
>>: the pump was on. 1/4, maybe 1/8 of the second later the pump turned off
>>itself on
>>: the pressure switch and the pressure started decreasing to the 40PSI
>>when the
>>: pump turned itself on again... This cycling seem to be due to the fact
>>the pump
>>: had large capacity and pumped pressure high up really quick reaching the
>>limit.
>>: The water did not have the way to escape through the RO filter that
>>quickly so
>>: the pump turned off. When the pressure relatively slowly dropped back to
>>the
>>: 40PSI the pump turned itself back again...
>>:
>>: I almost feel like I need a "water capacitor", using kind of electrical
>>analogy...
>>: Some flexible device/container which could take the pressure from the
>>pump
>>: and release it over time feeding the need for water of the RO filter...
>>Or a much
>>: smaller capacity pump which will just barely keep up with RO filter
>>demand.
>>
>>
>
>
>

[TekCat]

My tap water is within normal range for the membrane. I think, it is around
50 - 60.


"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "TekCat" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Well, yesterday I got my pump, it is Aquatec CDP-8800, hooked it up
>> inline between kitchen faucet and the RO 125GPD unit from dvoneb. Well, I
>> definitely saw the improvement, instead of 2GPD now I got 6GPD, however,
>> it is not even near the 125GPD. I am going crazy here. Any thoughts?
>
> What is your tap water temperature and how does it match
> the nominal temperature required by the membrane manufacturer ?

[TekCat]

Thanks for humor :))) I needed it :) .... my better half is going to kill me
when she finds out that all that money is wasted...

Anyways, they (who I bought it from) are going to send me another RO
membrane. Just to play around, I hooked up the pump just before the
membrane (after the prefilters)... hm... same ****, different hookup :)

In any case, I'll wait for the replacement membrane.... after that the
flowrestricter is gonna be disected.... meanwhile I am gonna go to LFS and
get some RO water.

Thanks :)



"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Wow that's great ! your now getting 5gpd instead of 2gpd! That RO unit is
> going got pay for itself in no time !
>
> hehehe
>
> hmmm,, maybe the flow restricters are defective. What kind of flowrate are
> you geting from the brine line?
>
> I think I would be calling the manufacture. You might also chech the flow
> rate going into the the actual ro part, just to make sure that it is going
> through the prefilters ok. It most likely is, but it could be ruled out,
> and then call the manufacture.
>
>
> Wayne Sallee
>
>
>
> TekCat wrote:
>> Well, yesterday I got my pump, it is Aquatec CDP-8800, hooked it up
>> inline between kitchen faucet and the RO 125GPD unit from dvoneb. Well, I
>> definitely saw the improvement, instead of 2GPD now I got 6GPD, however,
>> it is not even near the 125GPD. I am going crazy here. Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Boomer" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>That is not a RO booster pump, you have the wrong one. That is a
>>>container pump. The
>>>booster pump is the Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump or 6800
>>>
>>>Aquatec DDP-5800 Delivery Booster Pump (YOURS)
>>>
>>>The DDP-5800 pumps can draw water from a ***holding tank and pressurize
>>>it***, or boost
>>>the pressure from a low pressure source.
>>>
>>>
>>>Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump( WHAT YOU NEED)
>>>
>>>For RO Systems*** Over 50 GPM ***- CDP-8800 Series High Flow). The
>>>CDP-8800 Series pumps
>>>are also compatible with most hydraulic shut-off valves with the optional
>>>PSW shut off
>>>tank controller switch. Distinguishing Features & Operating Benefits:
>>>Outstanding
>>>toughness, durability. Designed for 30,000+ operating hours.
>>>***Adjustable pressure boost
>>>between 40-120 PSI.***
>>>
>>>Aquatec CDP-6800 Booster Pump.
>>>
>>>6800 Series (Low Flow). For membranes ***up to 50 GPD.***
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Boomer
>>>
>>>Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
>>>http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>>>

>>>Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
>>>Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS
>>>
>>>If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
>>>
>>>
>>>"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
>>>: "Boomer" > wrote in message
...
>>>: >I do not know what you mean by cycle. A booster pump should keep a
>>>constant pressure on
>>>: > the RO membrane. Cycling would be self-defeating, for if the pressure
>>>changes, do to a
>>>: > on-off phase, there would be a continuous pressure difference on the
>>>membrane.
>>>: >
>>>: > Or are you talking about a RO container pressure pump, that keeps
>>>made RO water in a
>>>: > container at x pressure to pump to y place.
>>>:
>>>: OK, more details...
>>>: I have got Aquatec DDP5800, what they call "a demand/delivery pump".
>>>: Hooked it up to my KENT 10gpd barebone RO system and turned the pump
>>>on.
>>>: There was a pressure gauge in between the pump and the prefilters...
>>>:
>>>: When the pump was cycling on and off on the limit switch I saw the
>>>gauge
>>>: going from the 40PSI (my tap water static pressure) to 65-70 PSI the
>>>moment
>>>: the pump was on. 1/4, maybe 1/8 of the second later the pump turned off
>>>itself on
>>>: the pressure switch and the pressure started decreasing to the 40PSI
>>>when the
>>>: pump turned itself on again... This cycling seem to be due to the fact
>>>the pump
>>>: had large capacity and pumped pressure high up really quick reaching
>>>the limit.
>>>: The water did not have the way to escape through the RO filter that
>>>quickly so
>>>: the pump turned off. When the pressure relatively slowly dropped back
>>>to the
>>>: 40PSI the pump turned itself back again...
>>>:
>>>: I almost feel like I need a "water capacitor", using kind of electrical
>>>analogy...
>>>: Some flexible device/container which could take the pressure from the
>>>pump
>>>: and release it over time feeding the need for water of the RO filter...
>>>Or a much
>>>: smaller capacity pump which will just barely keep up with RO filter
>>>demand.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

[David Zopf]

"TekCat" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for humor :))) I needed it :) .... my better half is going to kill
> me
> when she finds out that all that money is wasted...
>
I was trying to keep quiet for the duration of this exchange, but the
temptation after this comment is just too great. I have to ask it; Does the
extra $70 bucks look like _that_ much more money now?

> Anyways, they (who I bought it from) are going to send me another RO
> membrane. Just to play around, I hooked up the pump just before the
> membrane (after the prefilters)... hm... same ****, different hookup :)
>
> In any case, I'll wait for the replacement membrane.... after that the
> flowrestricter is gonna be disected.... meanwhile I am gonna go to LFS and
> get some RO water.
>
Tick tock tick tock. Be sure to insist that their 15 day replacement policy
take effect from the day the unit starts putting out RO/DI in amounts
remotely approaching its rated daily volume... You shouldn't be the one to
be burned, just for accomodating their efforts at a repair.

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[Marc Levenson]

5g per DAY? Or per hour? Something is really wrong if it is per day.
Hope you figure it out. SOON!

Marc


TekCat wrote:
> Well, yesterday I got my pump, it is Aquatec CDP-8800, hooked it up inline
> between kitchen faucet and the RO 125GPD unit from dvoneb. Well, I
> definitely saw the improvement, instead of 2GPD now I got 6GPD, however, it
> is not even near the 125GPD. I am going crazy here. Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
> "Boomer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>That is not a RO booster pump, you have the wrong one. That is a container
>>pump. The
>>booster pump is the Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump or 6800
>>
>>Aquatec DDP-5800 Delivery Booster Pump (YOURS)
>>
>>The DDP-5800 pumps can draw water from a ***holding tank and pressurize
>>it***, or boost
>>the pressure from a low pressure source.
>>
>>
>>Aquatec CDP-8800 Booster Pump( WHAT YOU NEED)
>>
>>For RO Systems*** Over 50 GPM ***- CDP-8800 Series High Flow). The
>>CDP-8800 Series pumps
>>are also compatible with most hydraulic shut-off valves with the optional
>>PSW shut off
>>tank controller switch. Distinguishing Features & Operating Benefits:
>>Outstanding
>>toughness, durability. Designed for 30,000+ operating hours. ***Adjustable
>>pressure boost
>>between 40-120 PSI.***
>>
>>Aquatec CDP-6800 Booster Pump.
>>
>>6800 Series (Low Flow). For membranes ***up to 50 GPD.***
>>
>>
>>--
>>Boomer
>>
>>Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
>>http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>>

>>Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
>>Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS
>>
>>If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
>>
>>
>>"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
>>: "Boomer" > wrote in message
...
>>: >I do not know what you mean by cycle. A booster pump should keep a
>>constant pressure on
>>: > the RO membrane. Cycling would be self-defeating, for if the pressure
>>changes, do to a
>>: > on-off phase, there would be a continuous pressure difference on the
>>membrane.
>>: >
>>: > Or are you talking about a RO container pressure pump, that keeps made
>>RO water in a
>>: > container at x pressure to pump to y place.
>>:
>>: OK, more details...
>>: I have got Aquatec DDP5800, what they call "a demand/delivery pump".
>>: Hooked it up to my KENT 10gpd barebone RO system and turned the pump on.
>>: There was a pressure gauge in between the pump and the prefilters...
>>:
>>: When the pump was cycling on and off on the limit switch I saw the gauge
>>: going from the 40PSI (my tap water static pressure) to 65-70 PSI the
>>moment
>>: the pump was on. 1/4, maybe 1/8 of the second later the pump turned off
>>itself on
>>: the pressure switch and the pressure started decreasing to the 40PSI
>>when the
>>: pump turned itself on again... This cycling seem to be due to the fact
>>the pump
>>: had large capacity and pumped pressure high up really quick reaching the
>>limit.
>>: The water did not have the way to escape through the RO filter that
>>quickly so
>>: the pump turned off. When the pressure relatively slowly dropped back to
>>the
>>: 40PSI the pump turned itself back again...
>>:
>>: I almost feel like I need a "water capacitor", using kind of electrical
>>analogy...
>>: Some flexible device/container which could take the pressure from the
>>pump
>>: and release it over time feeding the need for water of the RO filter...
>>Or a much
>>: smaller capacity pump which will just barely keep up with RO filter
>>demand.
>>
>>
>
>
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Pszemol]

"David Zopf" > wrote in message ...
>> Thanks for humor :))) I needed it :) .... my better half is going to kill
>> me
>> when she finds out that all that money is wasted...
>>
> I was trying to keep quiet for the duration of this exchange, but the
> temptation after this comment is just too great. I have to ask it; Does
> the extra $70 bucks look like _that_ much more money now?

Aren't you too quick to judge fault on the seller side ?

[David Zopf]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "David Zopf" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Thanks for humor :))) I needed it :) .... my better half is going to
>>> kill me
>>> when she finds out that all that money is wasted...
>>>
>> I was trying to keep quiet for the duration of this exchange, but the
>> temptation after this comment is just too great. I have to ask it; Does
>> the extra $70 bucks look like _that_ much more money now?
>
> Aren't you too quick to judge fault on the seller side ?
>

My question wasn't about finding fault with his seller, it was asking
whether TekCat felt that the extra $$ for a seller with knowledge and a
motivation for providing good service seemed like a better idea from this
side of his own experience. I'm curous where his "break pint" is on saving
that 70 bucks. I can accept; "No, I'm still happy... I saved $70" as a
perfectly reasonable answer to that question, BTW.

I don't find fault in a seller if he gets him a working unit in a timely
fashion, or is working to correct the problem (and so I reserve judgement on
his seller, for now. They are still trying to get TekCat up and running).
TekCat was looking for RO/DI roughly three weeks ago (9/9), and still
doesn't have a working system, and now has laid out extra $$ for a booster
pump which didn't solve his problem. Is a month "too quick" to expect a
working system?

Regards
DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[Pszemol]

"David Zopf" > wrote in message . ..
>>>> Thanks for humor :))) I needed it :) .... my better half is going to
>>>> kill me when she finds out that all that money is wasted...
>>>>
>>> I was trying to keep quiet for the duration of this exchange, but the
>>> temptation after this comment is just too great. I have to ask it; Does
>>> the extra $70 bucks look like _that_ much more money now?
>>
>> Aren't you too quick to judge fault on the seller side ?
>
> My question wasn't about finding fault with his seller, it was asking
> whether TekCat felt that the extra $$ for a seller with knowledge and a
> motivation for providing good service seemed like a better idea from this
> side of his own experience. I'm curous where his "break pint" is on saving
> that 70 bucks. I can accept; "No, I'm still happy... I saved $70" as a
> perfectly reasonable answer to that question, BTW.

Are you suggesting that similar experience WOULD NEVER happen
if he spent $70 more ?

A faulty membrane could happen to any seller!
The fact he is working with custommer and shipping a replacement
unit is not a reason to consider if it was worth it to spend $70 more.

But you seem to be sure about it long time ago, before you actually
asked the question... You could not wait to ask it... Like you were so
eager to say "I told you so"... This is not a scientific aproach :-)))

> I don't find fault in a seller if he gets him a working unit in a timely
> fashion, or is working to correct the problem (and so I reserve judgement on
> his seller, for now. They are still trying to get TekCat up and running).

So what was the reason for a question/crypto-suggestion about spending $70 more ?

> TekCat was looking for RO/DI roughly three weeks ago (9/9), and still
> doesn't have a working system, and now has laid out extra $$ for a booster
> pump which didn't solve his problem. Is a month "too quick" to expect a
> working system?

I do not have enough details to judge how much time it took to order,
to ship, to assemble the unit - I do not know if this is too quick...
I have no idea how long TekCat "sat on the problem" with no action.
I only know he *decided to purchase* this eBay unit on 9/9...
And that he *received* the unit to be assembled 9/16 - is 7 calendar
days normal for eBay purchase turnaround ? Probably normal.
We have no idea when he won the auction, when he paid and what
shipping option he has picked. We do not know when he tested the unit
first time. Was a decision about purchasing a booster pump smart without
knowing your actual pressure in the water source? Probably not...
But it was his own decision, not a seller recomendation... so
I am not sure why do you add this to the total price of "the eBay solution".
Without knowing all these details, you are sure it was too long... and you
know also, that it would be much faster if he payed $70 more :-))
You seem to know everything and you do not need any data to support
your theories or opinions. Congratulations! You must be clearvoyant! :-))

[David Zopf]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "David Zopf" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>>>> Thanks for humor :))) I needed it :) .... my better half is going to
>>>>> kill me when she finds out that all that money is wasted...
>>>>>
>>>> I was trying to keep quiet for the duration of this exchange, but the
>>>> temptation after this comment is just too great. I have to ask it;
>>>> Does
>>>> the extra $70 bucks look like _that_ much more money now?
>>>
>>> Aren't you too quick to judge fault on the seller side ?
>>
>> My question wasn't about finding fault with his seller, it was asking
>> whether TekCat felt that the extra $$ for a seller with knowledge and a
>> motivation for providing good service seemed like a better idea from this
>> side of his own experience. I'm curous where his "break point" is on
>> saving that 70 bucks. I can accept; "No, I'm still happy... I saved $70"
>> as a perfectly reasonable answer to that question, BTW.
>
> Are you suggesting that similar experience WOULD NEVER happen
> if he spent $70 more ?
>
I don't generally respond to Straw Man arguments, Pszemol... "would never"
is a strong phrase (especially when you shout like that). One can
reasonably expect that a seller with a better knowledge of his product can
more quickly and accurately resolve technical issues that arise, post-sale.
What value that aspect of the sale has is a matter of personal opinion and
taste.

> A faulty membrane could happen to any seller!
> The fact he is working with custommer and shipping a replacement
> unit is not a reason to consider if it was worth it to spend $70 more.
>
That's an judgement call Pszemol... There's part real cost, part value
judgement, part 'headache reduction', colored by what the buyer considers a
response timeframe worthy of his patronage.

> But you seem to be sure about it long time ago, before you actually
> asked the question... You could not wait to ask it... Like you were so
> eager to say "I told you so"...

My personal experience is that, when making purchases like this, the
experienced small businessman almost always pays out against the modest
extra cost they incur, even for people who like to squeeze every last penny
'till it screams. I'm curious to know if that experience is proven out by
TekCat's case. In another sense, I seem to be only slightly less eager than
you are to post in defense of the cheapest option as still being the best
option...

> This is not a scientific aproach :-)))
>
TekCat's comment about "my better half is going to kill me when she finds
out that all that money is wasted" triggered my asking, since it was obvious
that the cheap option was turning out to be not so cheap. That _is_, in
fact, a scientific approach, since I did wait for there to be incidents
which resulted in monetary changes to the purchase consideration (pump
purchase, RO water purchases now pending).

>> I don't find fault in a seller if he gets him a working unit in a timely
>> fashion, or is working to correct the problem (and so I reserve judgement
>> on his seller, for now. They are still trying to get TekCat up and
>> running).
>
> So what was the reason for a question/crypto-suggestion about spending $70
> more ?
>
If that $70 buys you better trouble-shooting, faster response, etc. there
is obviously a break point at which it becomes cheaper than the Cheap
option. There is also the non-monetary aspect of 'buying away headaches',
which will make different people have different break points on such a
decision. I'm interested in where those breaks now lie for TekCat (and
significantly less interested in our line of discussion. We've been here
before, and recently, too. I think everyone gets where you're coming from.
You like your things as cheap as you can get them, and you don't see a point
in spending more for service, or in support of smaller businesses. Got it.)

>> TekCat was looking for RO/DI roughly three weeks ago (9/9), and still
>> doesn't have a working system, and now has laid out extra $$ for a
>> booster pump which didn't solve his problem. Is a month "too quick" to
>> expect a working system?
>
> I do not have enough details to judge how much time it took to order,
> to ship, to assemble the unit - I do not know if this is too quick...

The reason you cannot say (and the reason I asked) is because the answer
in part relies upon a judgement call by the purchaser... If TekCat is happy
with his service, then all is well. If he's not happy, though, I'd like to
know about that, too.

> I have no idea how long TekCat "sat on the problem" with no action.
> I only know he *decided to purchase* this eBay unit on 9/9...
> And that he *received* the unit to be assembled 9/16 - is 7 calendar
> days normal for eBay purchase turnaround ? Probably normal.

Sure, I can accept that.

> We have no idea when he won the auction, when he paid

That we do. Despite being Ebay, the RO/DI units were all "Buy it Now"
items. Purchase date can be safely assumed to be the same as auction 'win'
date (why bother to click Buy It Now, if you aren't going to pay for it
then?) He's had it for two weeks, though, and has reached the end of his
original 15 day trial period offered by his seller.

> and what
> shipping option he has picked. We do not know when he tested the unit
> first time. Was a decision about purchasing a booster pump smart without
> knowing your actual pressure in the water source? Probably not... But it
> was his own decision, not a seller recomendation... so
> I am not sure why do you add this to the total price of "the eBay
> solution".

If I buy from a small source with product knowledge, and I have troubles
which I cannot fix myself in short order, the first thing I do is I pick up
the phone and I call my seller, and get direction for a solution. Reputable
sellers will troubleshot properly, and if a solution (such as the
ineffective pump) doesn't work, will accept the ineffective parts back for a
rebate. Therefore I think it _is_ reasonable, in general, to accept blind
troubleshooting purchases as a part of the cost of the final solution when
dealing with low-cost, unknowledgable sellers. I accept your statement that
TekCat took this step of his own accord (I have no evidence one way or
another... did he say that in some post here?), and so this particular
instance should be taken as a lesser, secondary consideration when tallying
the final cost.

> Without knowing all these details, you are sure it was too long... and you
> know also, that it would be much faster if he payed $70 more :-))
> You seem to know everything and you do not need any data to support
> your theories or opinions. Congratulations! You must be clearvoyant! :-))

*sigh* More Straw Men, with a little ad hominem at the end... Very cute,
but I think I've mentioned before that those habits never make anyone look
smart. I asked _questions_ Pszemol, and await answers (from TekCat) before
drawing conclusions. I'll draw conclusions from the answers (again,
TekCat's answers, not yours, since your position on the subject is crystal
clear), and then post opinion if I feel its neccesary or valuable to the
group. I'm asking questions because this is starting to play out in a
somewhat familair fashion. Of course that experience is going to color my
questions in a certain fashion, but I remain open to any answers TekCat is
willing to furnish. Until then, kindly stop trying to analyze based solely
on questions asked... This little ending should be a source of embarrasment
for you.

My personal apologies to TekCat, it seems every time I try to get some
insight into "his" purchase experience, Pszemol and I get into this same
side-debate. I hope its done now.

Regards
DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[Pszemol]

"David Zopf" > wrote in message .. .
>>> My question wasn't about finding fault with his seller, it was asking
>>> whether TekCat felt that the extra $$ for a seller with knowledge and a
>>> motivation for providing good service seemed like a better idea from this
>>> side of his own experience. I'm curous where his "break point" is on
>>> saving that 70 bucks. I can accept; "No, I'm still happy... I saved $70"
>>> as a perfectly reasonable answer to that question, BTW.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that similar experience WOULD NEVER happen
>> if he spent $70 more ?
>>
> I don't generally respond to Straw Man arguments, Pszemol...

Who is straw man here ?

> "would never" is a strong phrase (especially when you shout like that).

The question "Does the extra $70 bucks look like _that_ much more money now?"
directed towards a person with a problem is a very strong question, too...
This is not only a question. It is a suggestion, that if he would spend
extra $70 he would have his problem solved faster - and your statement
(suggestion) was stated here without any knowledge on when the customer
asked for help... Maybe the reaction of the seller here was lighting
fast, but you have no idea because we do not have this data...

The problem is that you seem to not need any data for your statements.

> One can reasonably expect that a seller with a better knowledge of his product
> can more quickly and accurately resolve technical issues that arise, post-sale.
> What value that aspect of the sale has is a matter of personal opinion and
> taste.

How fast the seller from eBay reacted to the issue? Can you tell me?

>> A faulty membrane could happen to any seller!
>> The fact he is working with custommer and shipping a replacement
>> unit is not a reason to consider if it was worth it to spend $70 more.
>>
> That's an judgement call Pszemol... There's part real cost, part value
> judgement, part 'headache reduction', colored by what the buyer considers
> a response timeframe worthy of his patronage.

So basically you shout your questions based on nothing else but gut feeling.

>> But you seem to be sure about it long time ago, before you actually
>> asked the question... You could not wait to ask it... Like you were so
>> eager to say "I told you so"...
>
> My personal experience is that, when making purchases like this, the
> experienced small businessman almost always pays out against the modest
> extra cost they incur, even for people who like to squeeze every last penny
> 'till it screams. I'm curious to know if that experience is proven out by
> TekCat's case. In another sense, I seem to be only slightly less eager than
> you are to post in defense of the cheapest option as still being the best
> option...

You are not curious to know... You already know.
You knew it long before we had a chance to learn it.

And I am not defencing the seller - I do not know him/her.
I just argue with you, because you have no right to suggest
he would do better going to Marc based on known facts.

>> This is not a scientific aproach :-)))
>>
> TekCat's comment about "my better half is going to kill me when she finds
> out that all that money is wasted" triggered my asking, since it was obvious
> that the cheap option was turning out to be not so cheap. That _is_, in
> fact, a scientific approach, since I did wait for there to be incidents
> which resulted in monetary changes to the purchase consideration (pump
> purchase, RO water purchases now pending).

As I noticed in my previous post - the pump purchase was his sole
decision based on missing facts, assumptions. He took risk assuming
his pressure is too low and he proved himself wrong. It is not fair
adding pump purchase to the transaction total unless this was dirrect
seller recommendation.

> If that $70 buys you better trouble-shooting, faster response, etc.
> there is obviously a break point at which it becomes cheaper than the Cheap
> option.

IF. This is very important: IF. But we do not know this.

> There is also the non-monetary aspect of 'buying away headaches',
> which will make different people have different break points on such a
> decision. I'm interested in where those breaks now lie for TekCat

In my opinion it is too early to start totaling losses here...
Let's wait for the end of the issue. I have a strange feeling
that the case is already decided and lost from your point of view.

> (and
> significantly less interested in our line of discussion. We've been here
> before, and recently, too. I think everyone gets where you're coming from.
> You like your things as cheap as you can get them, and you don't see a point
> in spending more for service, or in support of smaller businesses. Got it.)

You got it right! I am not running a charity - I do not see the point
in giving money away to a somebodys pocket just because he owns small
business and overcharging his custommers to cover his bigger expenses.
I am interested in getting a quality *product* for the lowest price
and I was never disapointed with this aproach. It just happen I am
smart enough to solve potential problems on my own without paying big
bucks for "support"... If you feel Marc deserves your earned money
you can send him not only $70 for nothing - you can send him $1000 or
more in your "support of small businesses". Not my money, not my problem :-)
Cool.

>> I do not have enough details to judge how much time it took to order,
>> to ship, to assemble the unit - I do not know if this is too quick...
>
> The reason you cannot say (and the reason I asked) is because the answer
> in part relies upon a judgement call by the purchaser... If TekCat is happy
> with his service, then all is well. If he's not happy, though, I'd like to
> know about that, too.

I am sure he will share his thoughts when the time comes...
You have jumped to the conclusions too early.

>> We have no idea when he won the auction, when he paid
>
> That we do. Despite being Ebay, the RO/DI units were all "Buy it Now"
> items. Purchase date can be safely assumed to be the same as auction 'win'
> date (why bother to click Buy It Now, if you aren't going to pay for it
> then?) He's had it for two weeks, though, and has reached the end of his
> original 15 day trial period offered by his seller.

Again - you assume. If there is no "immediate payment required"
you may click "Buy it Now" just to reserve the unit for youerself
and pay many days later. So - you do not know when the unit was
payed and - that does not matter. He received it 9/16, and we
do not know when he finished assembling, testing, and what is
more important, we do not know when he reported his problems
to the seller first time. Without knowing these details we can
build many theories to our liking. But they all are worthless.

> If I buy from a small source with product knowledge, and I have troubles
> which I cannot fix myself in short order, the first thing I do is I pick up
> the phone and I call my seller, and get direction for a solution. Reputable
> sellers will troubleshot properly, and if a solution (such as the
> ineffective pump) doesn't work, will accept the ineffective parts back for a
> rebate. Therefore I think it _is_ reasonable, in general, to accept blind
> troubleshooting purchases as a part of the cost of the final solution when
> dealing with low-cost, unknowledgable sellers. I accept your statement that
> TekCat took this step of his own accord (I have no evidence one way or
> another... did he say that in some post here?), and so this particular
> instance should be taken as a lesser, secondary consideration when tallying
> the final cost.

You do not even know when, and IF he called the seller for help.
You could only ASSUME, based on the fact that YOU WOULD DO IT.
But you are not Tekcat. So hold on and lets wait for the situation
to develop before you start judging it as good or bad purchase.

>> Without knowing all these details, you are sure it was too long... and you
>> know also, that it would be much faster if he payed $70 more :-))
>> You seem to know everything and you do not need any data to support
>> your theories or opinions. Congratulations! You must be clearvoyant! :-))
>
> *sigh* More Straw Men, with a little ad hominem at the end... Very cute,
> but I think I've mentioned before that those habits never make anyone look
> smart.

I am not looking for your opinion about me being smart or dumb here.
So again - hold your judgments until you will have some facts...

> I asked _questions_ Pszemol, and await answers (from TekCat) before
> drawing conclusions. I'll draw conclusions from the answers (again,
> TekCat's answers, not yours, since your position on the subject is crystal
> clear), and then post opinion if I feel its neccesary or valuable to the
> group. I'm asking questions because this is starting to play out in a
> somewhat familair fashion. Of course that experience is going to color my
> questions in a certain fashion, but I remain open to any answers TekCat is
> willing to furnish. Until then, kindly stop trying to analyze based solely
> on questions asked...

Your QUESTIONS are just stating your opinions and conclusions.
IT does not matter you put a question mark at the end of the statement.
This question reads clearly as your opinion/suggestion, at least to me.

> This little ending should be a source of embarrasment for you.

I would be embarrased if I judged the situation without knowing facts.
I have presented a kind of protest against judging a seller based
on unknown facts, solely on assumptions which can turn out to be false.

> My personal apologies to TekCat, it seems every time I try to get some
> insight into "his" purchase experience, Pszemol and I get into this same
> side-debate. I hope its done now.

I was just getting started :-) But if you pass... so be it.

[Pszemol]

How about checking the restrictor ?
What is the quantity of water coming from the brine output ?

The ratio of clean water to dirty water should be like 1:4, maybe 1:5
when the temperature and the pressure of inlet water is normal.

If you have installed a restrictor incorrectly, or not installed
at all, all the water will come off through the brine outlet
and almost nothing will flow through the clean outlet due to
the lack of correct pressure at the membrane...

"TekCat" > wrote in message ...
> My tap water is within normal range for the membrane. I think, it is around
> 50 - 60.
>
>
> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "TekCat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Well, yesterday I got my pump, it is Aquatec CDP-8800, hooked it up
>>> inline between kitchen faucet and the RO 125GPD unit from dvoneb. Well, I
>>> definitely saw the improvement, instead of 2GPD now I got 6GPD, however,
>>> it is not even near the 125GPD. I am going crazy here. Any thoughts?
>>
>> What is your tap water temperature and how does it match
>> the nominal temperature required by the membrane manufacturer ?
>
>

[Wayne Sallee]

Good Grief Pszemol, your making too big of an issue of this.

Wayne Sallee


Pszemol wrote:
> "David Zopf" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>>> My question wasn't about finding fault with his seller, it was
>>>> asking whether TekCat felt that the extra $$ for a seller with
>>>> knowledge and a motivation for providing good service seemed like a
>>>> better idea from this side of his own experience. I'm curous where
>>>> his "break point" is on saving that 70 bucks. I can accept; "No,
>>>> I'm still happy... I saved $70" as a perfectly reasonable answer to
>>>> that question, BTW.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you suggesting that similar experience WOULD NEVER happen
>>> if he spent $70 more ?
>>>
>> I don't generally respond to Straw Man arguments, Pszemol...
>
>
> Who is straw man here ?
>
>> "would never" is a strong phrase (especially when you shout like that).
>
>
> The question "Does the extra $70 bucks look like _that_ much more money
> now?"
> directed towards a person with a problem is a very strong question, too...
> This is not only a question. It is a suggestion, that if he would spend
> extra $70 he would have his problem solved faster - and your statement
> (suggestion) was stated here without any knowledge on when the customer
> asked for help... Maybe the reaction of the seller here was lighting
> fast, but you have no idea because we do not have this data...
>
> The problem is that you seem to not need any data for your statements.
>
>> One can reasonably expect that a seller with a better knowledge of his
>> product
>> can more quickly and accurately resolve technical issues that arise,
>> post-sale. What value that aspect of the sale has is a matter of
>> personal opinion and taste.
>
>
> How fast the seller from eBay reacted to the issue? Can you tell me?
>
>>> A faulty membrane could happen to any seller!
>>> The fact he is working with custommer and shipping a replacement
>>> unit is not a reason to consider if it was worth it to spend $70 more.
>>>
>> That's an judgement call Pszemol... There's part real cost, part
>> value judgement, part 'headache reduction', colored by what the buyer
>> considers
>> a response timeframe worthy of his patronage.
>
>
> So basically you shout your questions based on nothing else but gut
> feeling.
>
>>> But you seem to be sure about it long time ago, before you actually
>>> asked the question... You could not wait to ask it... Like you were so
>>> eager to say "I told you so"...
>>
>>
>> My personal experience is that, when making purchases like this, the
>> experienced small businessman almost always pays out against the
>> modest extra cost they incur, even for people who like to squeeze
>> every last penny 'till it screams. I'm curious to know if that
>> experience is proven out by TekCat's case. In another sense, I seem
>> to be only slightly less eager than you are to post in defense of the
>> cheapest option as still being the best option...
>
>
> You are not curious to know... You already know.
> You knew it long before we had a chance to learn it.
>
> And I am not defencing the seller - I do not know him/her.
> I just argue with you, because you have no right to suggest
> he would do better going to Marc based on known facts.
>
>>> This is not a scientific aproach :-)))
>>>
>> TekCat's comment about "my better half is going to kill me when she
>> finds out that all that money is wasted" triggered my asking, since it
>> was obvious that the cheap option was turning out to be not so cheap.
>> That _is_, in fact, a scientific approach, since I did wait for there
>> to be incidents which resulted in monetary changes to the purchase
>> consideration (pump purchase, RO water purchases now pending).
>
>
> As I noticed in my previous post - the pump purchase was his sole
> decision based on missing facts, assumptions. He took risk assuming
> his pressure is too low and he proved himself wrong. It is not fair
> adding pump purchase to the transaction total unless this was dirrect
> seller recommendation.
>
>> If that $70 buys you better trouble-shooting, faster response, etc.
>> there is obviously a break point at which it becomes cheaper than the
>> Cheap option.
>
>
> IF. This is very important: IF. But we do not know this.
>
>> There is also the non-monetary aspect of 'buying away headaches',
>> which will make different people have different break points on such a
>> decision. I'm interested in where those breaks now lie for TekCat
>
>
> In my opinion it is too early to start totaling losses here...
> Let's wait for the end of the issue. I have a strange feeling
> that the case is already decided and lost from your point of view.
>
>> (and significantly less interested in our line of discussion. We've
>> been here before, and recently, too. I think everyone gets where
>> you're coming from. You like your things as cheap as you can get them,
>> and you don't see a point in spending more for service, or in support
>> of smaller businesses. Got it.)
>
>
> You got it right! I am not running a charity - I do not see the point
> in giving money away to a somebodys pocket just because he owns small
> business and overcharging his custommers to cover his bigger expenses. I
> am interested in getting a quality *product* for the lowest price
> and I was never disapointed with this aproach. It just happen I am
> smart enough to solve potential problems on my own without paying big
> bucks for "support"... If you feel Marc deserves your earned money
> you can send him not only $70 for nothing - you can send him $1000 or
> more in your "support of small businesses". Not my money, not my problem
> :-)
> Cool.
>
>>> I do not have enough details to judge how much time it took to order,
>>> to ship, to assemble the unit - I do not know if this is too quick...
>>
>>
>> The reason you cannot say (and the reason I asked) is because the
>> answer in part relies upon a judgement call by the purchaser... If
>> TekCat is happy with his service, then all is well. If he's not
>> happy, though, I'd like to know about that, too.
>
>
> I am sure he will share his thoughts when the time comes...
> You have jumped to the conclusions too early.
>
>>> We have no idea when he won the auction, when he paid
>>
>>
>> That we do. Despite being Ebay, the RO/DI units were all "Buy it Now"
>> items. Purchase date can be safely assumed to be the same as auction
>> 'win' date (why bother to click Buy It Now, if you aren't going to pay
>> for it then?) He's had it for two weeks, though, and has reached the
>> end of his original 15 day trial period offered by his seller.
>
>
> Again - you assume. If there is no "immediate payment required"
> you may click "Buy it Now" just to reserve the unit for youerself
> and pay many days later. So - you do not know when the unit was
> payed and - that does not matter. He received it 9/16, and we
> do not know when he finished assembling, testing, and what is
> more important, we do not know when he reported his problems
> to the seller first time. Without knowing these details we can
> build many theories to our liking. But they all are worthless.
>
>> If I buy from a small source with product knowledge, and I have
>> troubles which I cannot fix myself in short order, the first thing I
>> do is I pick up the phone and I call my seller, and get direction for
>> a solution. Reputable sellers will troubleshot properly, and if a
>> solution (such as the ineffective pump) doesn't work, will accept the
>> ineffective parts back for a rebate. Therefore I think it _is_
>> reasonable, in general, to accept blind troubleshooting purchases as a
>> part of the cost of the final solution when dealing with low-cost,
>> unknowledgable sellers. I accept your statement that TekCat took this
>> step of his own accord (I have no evidence one way or another... did
>> he say that in some post here?), and so this particular instance
>> should be taken as a lesser, secondary consideration when tallying the
>> final cost.
>
>
> You do not even know when, and IF he called the seller for help.
> You could only ASSUME, based on the fact that YOU WOULD DO IT.
> But you are not Tekcat. So hold on and lets wait for the situation
> to develop before you start judging it as good or bad purchase.
>
>>> Without knowing all these details, you are sure it was too long...
>>> and you
>>> know also, that it would be much faster if he payed $70 more :-))
>>> You seem to know everything and you do not need any data to support
>>> your theories or opinions. Congratulations! You must be clearvoyant!
>>> :-))
>>
>>
>> *sigh* More Straw Men, with a little ad hominem at the end... Very
>> cute, but I think I've mentioned before that those habits never make
>> anyone look smart.
>
>
> I am not looking for your opinion about me being smart or dumb here.
> So again - hold your judgments until you will have some facts...
>
>> I asked _questions_ Pszemol, and await answers (from TekCat) before
>> drawing conclusions. I'll draw conclusions from the answers (again,
>> TekCat's answers, not yours, since your position on the subject is
>> crystal clear), and then post opinion if I feel its neccesary or
>> valuable to the group. I'm asking questions because this is starting
>> to play out in a somewhat familair fashion. Of course that experience
>> is going to color my questions in a certain fashion, but I remain open
>> to any answers TekCat is willing to furnish. Until then, kindly stop
>> trying to analyze based solely on questions asked...
>
>
> Your QUESTIONS are just stating your opinions and conclusions.
> IT does not matter you put a question mark at the end of the statement.
> This question reads clearly as your opinion/suggestion, at least to me.
>
>> This little ending should be a source of embarrasment for you.
>
>
> I would be embarrased if I judged the situation without knowing facts.
> I have presented a kind of protest against judging a seller based
> on unknown facts, solely on assumptions which can turn out to be false.
>
>> My personal apologies to TekCat, it seems every time I try to get
>> some insight into "his" purchase experience, Pszemol and I get into
>> this same side-debate. I hope its done now.
>
>
> I was just getting started :-) But if you pass... so be it.

[Pszemol]

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message ink.net...
> Good Grief Pszemol, your making too big of an issue of this.

I know... his question/comments were so anoying I could not resist :-)
I hate when people assume without any basis
and later harm other people reputation this way...
As I said before, I do not know this eBay seller but David's
suggestions are just not fair.

[Marc Levenson]

Do you feel better now? That's the important thing, after all. ;)

Marc


Pszemol wrote:
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
>> Good Grief Pszemol, your making too big of an issue of this.
>
>
> I know... his question/comments were so anoying I could not resist :-)
> I hate when people assume without any basis
> and later harm other people reputation this way...
> As I said before, I do not know this eBay seller but David's
> suggestions are just not fair.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Pszemol]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message . ..
> Do you feel better now? That's the important thing, after all. ;)

No need for stinging remarks, Marc...
The important thing is for TekCat to get a working RO unit.

[Marc Levenson]

I totally agree, and that was no stinger I assure you.

Marc :)

Pszemol wrote:
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>> Do you feel better now? That's the important thing, after all. ;)
>
>
> No need for stinging remarks, Marc...
> The important thing is for TekCat to get a working RO unit.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[David Zopf]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Good Grief Pszemol, your making too big of an issue of this.
>
> I know... his question/comments were so anoying I could not resist :-)
> I hate when people assume without any basis

How ironic... From all of four exchanges in two threads on the exact same
topic, you've arrived at:

Pszemol 10/3/05 4:01PM:
"You are not curious to know... You already know.
You knew it long before we had a chance to learn it."

"... the case is already decided and lost from your point of view."

"Your QUESTIONS are just stating your opinions and conclusions."

Pot..? Kettle..? Black..? Where are the bases for _your_ assumptions,
Pszemol?

I'm done with replying to you, as your last post shows that you have formed
some very clear ideas about who I am and what my opinions are. We are where
we are because you assume that the tone of my questions implies that I'm
open to only one sort of response (patently False, but I have no way, or
inclination, of _making you_ believe that). I will reply to continued
mis-representations of myself, though, especially from someone with the
hypocritical habits demonstrated above. Kindly stop it, Pszemol, you know
as much about me as I do about you, and that amounts to almost nothing.

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[David Zopf]

From: "David Zopf" >
Subject: Re: water vs. water
Date: Monday, October 03, 2005 5:34 PM

last comment pasted first:
>> My personal apologies to TekCat, it seems every time I try to get some
>> insight into "his" purchase experience, Pszemol and I get into this same
>> side-debate. I hope its done now.
>
> I was just getting started :-) But if you pass... so be it.

Ug. You really like to take turns around the proverbial bush, don't you?
Fine... Here we go.


"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "David Zopf" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>>> My question wasn't about finding fault with his seller, it was asking
>>>> whether TekCat felt that the extra $$ for a seller with knowledge and a
>>>> motivation for providing good service seemed like a better idea from
>>>> this side of his own experience. I'm curous where his "break point" is
>>>> on saving that 70 bucks. I can accept; "No, I'm still happy... I saved
>>>> $70" as a perfectly reasonable answer to that question, BTW.
>>>
>>> Are you suggesting that similar experience WOULD NEVER happen
>>> if he spent $70 more ?
>>>
>> I don't generally respond to Straw Man arguments, Pszemol...
>
> Who is straw man here ?
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument

>> "would never" is a strong phrase (especially when you shout like that).
>
> The question "Does the extra $70 bucks look like _that_ much more money
> now?"
> directed towards a person with a problem is a very strong question, too...
> This is not only a question.

No, actually, it is only a question.

> It is a suggestion, that if he would spend
> extra $70 he would have his problem solved faster - and your statement
> (suggestion) was stated here without any knowledge on when the customer
> asked for help...

Or, its an open-ended question which asks TekCat to reflect on his
purchase and experience, and make a judgement call. Note, it still remains
only a question (to everyone but you, it seems).

> Maybe the reaction of the seller here was lighting
> fast, but you have no idea because we do not have this data...
>
> The problem is that you seem to not need any data for your statements.

I have made no statements, I have only asked questions. Of course, my
question's verbiage was colored by my expectations, but thats reasonable,
considering that there were new indications that TekCat's puchase experience
was starting to turn sour for him. That you draw irresponsible conclusions
from my questions is something I cannot help, and I suspect is more a mark
of your bias in defense of your recommendation, than it is an issue with the
questions, themselves...
>
>> One can reasonably expect that a seller with a better knowledge of his
>> product
>> can more quickly and accurately resolve technical issues that arise,
>> post-sale. What value that aspect of the sale has is a matter of personal
>> opinion and taste.
>
> How fast the seller from eBay reacted to the issue? Can you tell me?
>
In part, that's what I'd like to know, from TekCat...

>>> A faulty membrane could happen to any seller!
>>> The fact he is working with custommer and shipping a replacement
>>> unit is not a reason to consider if it was worth it to spend $70 more.
>>>
>> That's an judgement call Pszemol... There's part real cost, part value
>> judgement, part 'headache reduction', colored by what the buyer considers
>> a response timeframe worthy of his patronage.
>
> So basically you shout your questions based on nothing else but gut
> feeling.
>

Your reduction to absurdity fails. If you equate "gut feeling" = "part real
cost, part value judgement, part 'headache reduction', colored by what the
buyer considers a response timeframe worthy of his patronage.", then yes...
but I hardly shout ;-) I'll leave the shouting to you, Pszemol, and your
CAPS LOCK button. Would you be suprised if few others shared your
definition of "gut feeling"?

>>> But you seem to be sure about it long time ago, before you actually
>>> asked the question... You could not wait to ask it... Like you were so
>>> eager to say "I told you so"...
>>
>> My personal experience is that, when making purchases like this, the
>> experienced small businessman almost always pays out against the modest
>> extra cost they incur, even for people who like to squeeze every last
>> penny 'till it screams. I'm curious to know if that experience is proven
>> out by TekCat's case. In another sense, I seem to be only slightly less
>> eager than you are to post in defense of the cheapest option as still
>> being the best option...
>
> You are not curious to know... You already know.
> You knew it long before we had a chance to learn it.

Presuming to know my mind? But we've only just met. I'd have to quit my
job the day I was so stubborn as to refuse additional evidence (and I would
likely be posting ad hominem attacks, Straw Men arguments, failed reductions
to absurdity, and other such nonsense by now... They're evidence of a
crystalized mind, you know ;-)

>
> And I am not defencing the seller - I do not know him/her.
> I just argue with you, because you have no right to suggest
> he would do better going to Marc based on known facts.
>
>>> This is not a scientific aproach :-)))
>>>
>> TekCat's comment about "my better half is going to kill me when she
>> finds out that all that money is wasted" triggered my asking, since it
>> was obvious that the cheap option was turning out to be not so cheap.
>> That _is_, in fact, a scientific approach, since I did wait for there to
>> be incidents which resulted in monetary changes to the purchase
>> consideration (pump purchase, RO water purchases now pending).
>
> As I noticed in my previous post -

and as you repeatedly omit from my reply...

> the pump purchase was his sole
> decision based on missing facts, assumptions. He took risk assuming
> his pressure is too low and he proved himself wrong. It is not fair
> adding pump purchase to the transaction total unless this was dirrect
> seller recommendation.
>
Conceded in part. The point about sales _in general_ that I was making was
that 'direct seller recommendation' when dealing with a large, anonymous
seller can be non-existant, and if its available, it is almost always of a
lower quality when compared to an experienced seller, incurring additional
cost to the Cheap option.

>> If that $70 buys you better trouble-shooting, faster response, etc.
>> there is obviously a break point at which it becomes cheaper than the
>> Cheap option.
>
> IF. This is very important: IF. But we do not know this.
>
....which is why we ask.

>> There is also the non-monetary aspect of 'buying away headaches', which
>> will make different people have different break points on such a
>> decision. I'm interested in where those breaks now lie for TekCat
>
> In my opinion it is too early to start totaling losses here...

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but then the opinion I was
seeking with my orignal qustion was TekCat's, wasn't it?

> Let's wait for the end of the issue. I have a strange feeling

....call that strange feeling an 'assumption', since you like the word so
much.

> that the case is already decided and lost from your point of view.
>
>> (and significantly less interested in our line of discussion. We've been
>> here before, and recently, too. I think everyone gets where you're
>> coming from. You like your things as cheap as you can get them, and you
>> don't see a point in spending more for service, or in support of smaller
>> businesses. Got it.)
>
> You got it right! I am not running a charity - I do not see the point
> in giving money away to a somebodys pocket just because he owns small
> business and overcharging his custommers to cover his bigger expenses. I
> am interested in getting a quality *product* for the lowest price
> and I was never disapointed with this aproach.

A great summary of your position. Do you think everyone is like you, then?
Of course you don't. So why jump up and down and stamp your feet like this
when I ask for someone else's opinion? We're all different, you know.
I have a job, a family, a house, and hobbies I enjoy. If I'm purchasing a
non-commodity item of any complexity, and have a choice between an informed,
experienced seller who costs a bit more, and an anonymous big-box store
which can likely extend the time wasted on a project, I'll go with the
experienced seller, thanks. My time is worth more to me than that. What's
more, I'm not running a charity, either. In the majority of cases, I end up
coming out with a long-term savings on the project, as the additional costs
of fiddling with the cheap option add up.

> It just happen I am
> smart enough to solve potential problems on my own without paying big
> bucks for "support"...

Truly, this is a factor in the total value of a sale. For those who don't
have the experience to solve potential problems without incurring additional
expense, it would seem like the money spent for support would be of greater
value, then. Hmm, I wonder who _that's_ relevent to?

>>> I do not have enough details to judge how much time it took to order,
>>> to ship, to assemble the unit - I do not know if this is too quick...
>>
>> The reason you cannot say (and the reason I asked) is because the answer
>> in part relies upon a judgement call by the purchaser... If TekCat is
>> happy with his service, then all is well. If he's not happy, though, I'd
>> like to know about that, too.
>
> I am sure he will share his thoughts when the time comes...
> You have jumped to the conclusions too early.
>
>>> We have no idea when he won the auction, when he paid
>>
>> That we do. Despite being Ebay, the RO/DI units were all "Buy it Now"
>> items. Purchase date can be safely assumed to be the same as auction
>> 'win' date (why bother to click Buy It Now, if you aren't going to pay
>> for it then?) He's had it for two weeks, though, and has reached the end
>> of his original 15 day trial period offered by his seller.
>
> Again - you assume.

What's to assume? He received his purchase on 9/16. He has 15 days from
date of receipt to evaluate his purchase, per the provisions of the seller.
Thas not an assumption... thats algebra. Note that assumptions are not the
Anathema you make them out to be... They're perfectly valid, so long as
they are noted (which I do), grounded in a basis that gives them a fair
possibility of validity (which I have), and revised once proven to be false
(which I will, if needed).

>> If I buy from a small source with product knowledge, and I have troubles
>> which I cannot fix myself in short order, the first thing I do is I pick
>> up the phone and I call my seller, and get direction for a solution.
>> Reputable sellers will troubleshoot properly, and if a solution (such as
>> the ineffective pump) doesn't work, will accept the ineffective parts
>> back for a rebate. Therefore I think it _is_ reasonable, in general, to
>> accept blind troubleshooting purchases as a part of the cost of the final
>> solution when dealing with low-cost, unknowledgable sellers. I accept
>> your statement that TekCat took this step of his own accord (I have no
>> evidence one way or another... did he say that in some post here?), and
>> so this particular instance should be taken as a lesser, secondary
>> consideration when tallying the final cost.
>
> You do not even know when, and IF he called the seller for help.
> You could only ASSUME, based on the fact that YOU WOULD DO IT.
> But you are not Tekcat. So hold on and lets wait for the situation
> to develop before you start judging it as good or bad purchase.
>
I did say "in general"... this was an argument in support of adding the
cost of troubleshooting to the final tally, since you may have to take that
upon yourself when you buy from a source with limited knowledge of their
product (as noted above, varying degrees of troublesshooting acumen wil
alter the value of purchasing support. Are you convinced you're position on
this matter is the best one for everybody?). I also did allow for Tekcat's
particular situation, but those comments fall on deaf ears, when it comes to
you, it seems.

I note, too that its apparently OK for me to accept _your_ word on the
matter of TekCat's pump purchase being his own decision... but Sir, that is
an _assumption_ on my part !!! *gasp*... and one that you failed to point
out! A good assumption-hunter like you should leave no assumption un-noted.
I have to believe a talent such as yours saw it, and yet didn't make mention
of it for some very valid reason... Tell me, why is that one given special
dispensation?

>>> Without knowing all these details, you are sure it was too long... and
>>> you
>>> know also, that it would be much faster if he payed $70 more :-))
>>> You seem to know everything and you do not need any data to support
>>> your theories or opinions. Congratulations! You must be clearvoyant!
>>> :-))
>>
>> *sigh* More Straw Men, with a little ad hominem at the end... Very cute,
>> but I think I've mentioned before that those habits never make anyone
>> look smart.
>
> I am not looking for your opinion about me being smart or dumb here.

I'm sure you aren't, but everyone ends up learning a bit about each of us
from these exchanges, don't they? What have they learned about me? Nothing
I'm not already comfortable with them knowing...

> So again - hold your judgments until you will have some facts...
>
I have until now, and I will continue to do so.

>> I asked _questions_ Pszemol, and await answers (from TekCat) before
>> drawing conclusions. I'll draw conclusions from the answers (again,
>> TekCat's answers, not yours, since your position on the subject is
>> crystal clear), and then post opinion if I feel its neccesary or valuable
>> to the group. I'm asking questions because this is starting to play out
>> in a somewhat familair fashion. Of course that experience is going to
>> color my questions in a certain fashion, but I remain open to any answers
>> TekCat is willing to furnish. Until then, kindly stop trying to analyze
>> based solely on questions asked...
>
> Your QUESTIONS are just stating your opinions and conclusions.
> IT does not matter you put a question mark at the end of the statement.
> This question reads clearly as your opinion/suggestion, at least to me.
>
Ironically, that in and of itself is _your_ opinoin, and one I probably
won't sway, no matter what I post. *shrug* What can I say? You're wrong.
What's more, you lack sufficient experience with me upon which to base such
assumptions.

>> This little ending should be a source of embarrasment for you.
>
> I would be embarrased if I judged the situation without knowing facts.

....and you're not embarrased by your Straw Man arguments, your
re-definitions, and your ad hominem comments? They're three of the four
Deadly Sins of debate, you know (Re-direction being the fourth).

> I have presented a kind of protest against judging a seller based
> on unknown facts, solely on assumptions which can turn out to be false.
>
...and end up tilting at windmills in the process. There are no giants here,
Pszemol.

Regards
DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[Pszemol]

"David Zopf" > wrote in message .. .
>> I have presented a kind of protest against judging a seller based
>> on unknown facts, solely on assumptions which can turn out to be false.
>>
> ..and end up tilting at windmills in the process.

If this is what you think about our word exchange
then why do you invest any more time into a waste ? :-)
You just do not make any sense... I hope you noticed this.
You are right in one thing: discussion with you
is just one big waste of time on my part...

[TekCat]

I am very greatful to all of you for pointing me to the resources on the
subject.

But, please guys stop :) it's getting flamy in here :) there is no way of
knowing what to buy and where... I had, as most of you, very good and very
bad experiences trying to buy stuff. At the time of purchase I was VERY
short on money (damn paychecks, if only they could come every day)
hehehehe.... so, I took the least expensive option. From my personal
experience, most of the time this is a disaster waiting to happen ( "there
are no free lunches" ).

I sent out the membrane, and got email from the seller that he'll send me
new one once he receives the one I've sent.

Lets see what happends

[TekCat]

Pardon me for stupid question: is the restrictor the "valve" that allows to
flush water ( the other output from the membrane assembly) ?




"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> How about checking the restrictor ?
> What is the quantity of water coming from the brine output ?
>
> The ratio of clean water to dirty water should be like 1:4, maybe 1:5
> when the temperature and the pressure of inlet water is normal.
>
> If you have installed a restrictor incorrectly, or not installed
> at all, all the water will come off through the brine outlet
> and almost nothing will flow through the clean outlet due to
> the lack of correct pressure at the membrane...
>
> "TekCat" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My tap water is within normal range for the membrane. I think, it is
>> around 50 - 60.
>>
>>
>> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "TekCat" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Well, yesterday I got my pump, it is Aquatec CDP-8800, hooked it up
>>>> inline between kitchen faucet and the RO 125GPD unit from dvoneb. Well,
>>>> I definitely saw the improvement, instead of 2GPD now I got 6GPD,
>>>> however,
>>>> it is not even near the 125GPD. I am going crazy here. Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> What is your tap water temperature and how does it match
>>> the nominal temperature required by the membrane manufacturer ?
>>

[Pszemol]

"TekCat" > wrote in message ...
> Pardon me for stupid question: is the restrictor the "valve" that allows
> to flush water ( the other output from the membrane assembly) ?

I was told, there are no stupid questions...
It is better to ask than to make a mistake without asking ;-)

OK, I went back to eBay and check what is the unit you got
looking like... You probably got this unit without storage tank:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4407523899
Is this correct ? If so, the restrictor in this unit is
combined with "flush valve" used to flush membrane from deposits.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4407523899#RO-P2
You need to make sure you have this valve in CLOSED position
during normal operation. In OPEN it does not put any resistance
for the water over the membrane to pass down the drain...
For a membrane to operate properly there must be high pressure
at the membrane and restrictor is keeping this pressure allowing
some of the water to pass through.

Make sure this valve is in CLOSED position and retest your filter.
I hope this helps! If not, ask more :-)

Take care...
BTW - ignore childish "I told you so!" remarks from our trolls...

[Pszemol]

"TekCat" > wrote in message ...
> most of the time this is a disaster waiting to happen
> ( "there are no free lunches" ).

your filter was not free... :-)

> I sent out the membrane, and got email from the seller that
> he'll send me new one once he receives the one I've sent.

I wish you asked more questions before you act...
The question you asked about the restrictor was very important one.

[TekCat]

Than I was doing it correct. CLOSED for normal operation, OPEN to wash the
membrane.
While I "played" with it, it seem to do its job. Anyways, I'll wait for new
membrane, and if it is not going to work, than I'll look closely at the
valve. It is the only "questionable" thing left in the whole setup.

Thanks alot,

TekCat



"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "TekCat" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pardon me for stupid question: is the restrictor the "valve" that allows
>> to flush water ( the other output from the membrane assembly) ?
>
> I was told, there are no stupid questions...
> It is better to ask than to make a mistake without asking ;-)
>
> OK, I went back to eBay and check what is the unit you got
> looking like... You probably got this unit without storage tank:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4407523899
> Is this correct ? If so, the restrictor in this unit is
> combined with "flush valve" used to flush membrane from deposits.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4407523899#RO-P2
> You need to make sure you have this valve in CLOSED position
> during normal operation. In OPEN it does not put any resistance
> for the water over the membrane to pass down the drain...
> For a membrane to operate properly there must be high pressure
> at the membrane and restrictor is keeping this pressure allowing
> some of the water to pass through.
>
> Make sure this valve is in CLOSED position and retest your filter.
> I hope this helps! If not, ask more :-)
>
> Take care...
> BTW - ignore childish "I told you so!" remarks from our trolls...

[TekCat]

Well, today I got new membrane. It just WORKS!!!!! :))))) I am sooooo
happy! it outputs roughly 100 GPD!!!! before I got only SIX!
So, thanks everybody for helping me to get RO/DI unit and making it work!
Thanks again

[Marc Levenson]

That's awesome.

Marc :)

TekCat wrote:
> Well, today I got new membrane. It just WORKS!!!!! :))))) I am sooooo
> happy! it outputs roughly 100 GPD!!!! before I got only SIX!
> So, thanks everybody for helping me to get RO/DI unit and making it work!
> Thanks again
>
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Boomer]

Great T we all figured something was wrong there

--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php


Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


"TekCat" > wrote in message
...
: Well, today I got new membrane. It just WORKS!!!!! :))))) I am sooooo
: happy! it outputs roughly 100 GPD!!!! before I got only SIX!
: So, thanks everybody for helping me to get RO/DI unit and making it work!
: Thanks again
:
: