Tetras and shoaling

[FishNoob]

How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?

Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind
and stick with it?

--
FishNoob

[Gill Passman]

FishNoob wrote:
> How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>
> Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
> glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind
> and stick with it?
>

My Glowlights school with my Rasboras. I've never tried mixing tetras so
don't know if they would school together.

It really depends what kind of an effect you are looking for IMO the
more the better - he,he. Generally I go no less than 5 depending on the
multiples being sold in the LFS. My neons tend not to school together
all the time - I currently have 8 together in my 4ft tank and have had
up to 12 in there - 12 looked better. My Rummy Noses school together in
the 15 gall - I have 5 of them. As I said the Glowlights (6) school with
5 Rasboras which is quite nice (30gall).

So from my experience I would say at least 5

Gill

[Guido]

FishNoob wrote:
> How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>
> Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
> glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind
> and stick with it?
>
I've got three kinds of tetras in my tank right now - 4 neon, 3
cardinal, and I think the last one's called a bloodfin (red fins, grey
body). The neons and cardinals generally stay together, but they don't
seem to like the bloodfin. Not sure why that is, but he's generally off
swimming on his own... at one point, I think he thought he was part of
the school of danios!

Gord

[NetMax]

"Guido" > wrote in message
...
> FishNoob wrote:
>> How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>>
>> Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
>> glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind and
>> stick with it?
>>
> I've got three kinds of tetras in my tank right now - 4 neon, 3 cardinal,
> and I think the last one's called a bloodfin (red fins, grey body). The
> neons and cardinals generally stay together, but they don't seem to like
> the bloodfin. Not sure why that is, but he's generally off swimming on
> his own... at one point, I think he thought he was part of the school of
> danios!
>
> Gord

Tetras will shoal if they are feeling vulnerable (having a Bloodfin around
might have that effect). Some tetras are weak shoalers, like Neons, Skirts,
Red-eye, Lemon etc and some are strong shoalers (Rummys tend to hold their
formation better). Danios tend to shoal strong, when it suits them.
Generally, the longer and thinner they are (and more active swimmers) the
more their tendency to shoal (according to how vulnerable they feel, or
whatever other reasons promotes shoaling, such as hunting for food). This
is just from my limited observations though. Monos, Silver dollars, Pacus
and Piranhas all tend to shoal as well and they are not long & thin, but are
active swimmers.

I always use odd numbers for small groups of tetras, ie: 5 or 7.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Gill Passman]

NetMax wrote:
> "Guido" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>FishNoob wrote:
>>
>>>How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>>>
>>>Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
>>>glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind and
>>>stick with it?
>>>
>>
>>I've got three kinds of tetras in my tank right now - 4 neon, 3 cardinal,
>>and I think the last one's called a bloodfin (red fins, grey body). The
>>neons and cardinals generally stay together, but they don't seem to like
>>the bloodfin. Not sure why that is, but he's generally off swimming on
>>his own... at one point, I think he thought he was part of the school of
>>danios!
>>
>>Gord
>
>
> Tetras will shoal if they are feeling vulnerable (having a Bloodfin around
> might have that effect). Some tetras are weak shoalers, like Neons, Skirts,
> Red-eye, Lemon etc and some are strong shoalers (Rummys tend to hold their
> formation better). Danios tend to shoal strong, when it suits them.
> Generally, the longer and thinner they are (and more active swimmers) the
> more their tendency to shoal (according to how vulnerable they feel, or
> whatever other reasons promotes shoaling, such as hunting for food). This
> is just from my limited observations though. Monos, Silver dollars, Pacus
> and Piranhas all tend to shoal as well and they are not long & thin, but are
> active swimmers.
>
> I always use odd numbers for small groups of tetras, ie: 5 or 7.


Why odd numbers?

Gill

[Elaine T]

NetMax wrote:
> "Guido" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>FishNoob wrote:
>>
>>>How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>>>
>>>Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
>>>glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind and
>>>stick with it?
>>>
>>
>>I've got three kinds of tetras in my tank right now - 4 neon, 3 cardinal,
>>and I think the last one's called a bloodfin (red fins, grey body). The
>>neons and cardinals generally stay together, but they don't seem to like
>>the bloodfin. Not sure why that is, but he's generally off swimming on
>>his own... at one point, I think he thought he was part of the school of
>>danios!
>>
>>Gord
>
>
> Tetras will shoal if they are feeling vulnerable (having a Bloodfin around
> might have that effect). Some tetras are weak shoalers, like Neons, Skirts,
> Red-eye, Lemon etc and some are strong shoalers (Rummys tend to hold their
> formation better). Danios tend to shoal strong, when it suits them.
> Generally, the longer and thinner they are (and more active swimmers) the
> more their tendency to shoal (according to how vulnerable they feel, or
> whatever other reasons promotes shoaling, such as hunting for food). This
> is just from my limited observations though. Monos, Silver dollars, Pacus
> and Piranhas all tend to shoal as well and they are not long & thin, but are
> active swimmers.
>
> I always use odd numbers for small groups of tetras, ie: 5 or 7.

Rather than tetras, I prefer harlequin rasboras for shoaling. They tend
to hold a very nice formation in a part of the tank where the current is
good. My cardinals shoal quite nicely when the discus lunges at them to
guard his dinner.

I've seen neons and cardinals shoal together before. Very different
looking tetras like black skirts and cardinals don't tend to shoal with
each other. YMMV, though, especially with solo fish. My SAE shoals
with the completely unrelated rasboras much of the time, hovering in
midwater or sitting on a nearby leaf.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> NetMax wrote:
>> "Guido" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>FishNoob wrote:
>>>
>>>>How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>>>>
>>>>Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
>>>>glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind
>>>>and stick with it?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I've got three kinds of tetras in my tank right now - 4 neon, 3 cardinal,
>>>and I think the last one's called a bloodfin (red fins, grey body). The
>>>neons and cardinals generally stay together, but they don't seem to like
>>>the bloodfin. Not sure why that is, but he's generally off swimming on
>>>his own... at one point, I think he thought he was part of the school of
>>>danios!
>>>
>>>Gord
>>
>>
>> Tetras will shoal if they are feeling vulnerable (having a Bloodfin
>> around might have that effect). Some tetras are weak shoalers, like
>> Neons, Skirts, Red-eye, Lemon etc and some are strong shoalers (Rummys
>> tend to hold their formation better). Danios tend to shoal strong, when
>> it suits them. Generally, the longer and thinner they are (and more
>> active swimmers) the more their tendency to shoal (according to how
>> vulnerable they feel, or whatever other reasons promotes shoaling, such
>> as hunting for food). This is just from my limited observations though.
>> Monos, Silver dollars, Pacus and Piranhas all tend to shoal as well and
>> they are not long & thin, but are active swimmers.
>>
>> I always use odd numbers for small groups of tetras, ie: 5 or 7.
>
>
> Why odd numbers?
>
> Gill

That's how I would sell them (and maybe I'm kind of odd ;~). Livebearers
were sold in 3s (1M/2F) or 5 (2M/3F). Apistos were sold in harems (1M and
3F). Tetras, danios and rasboras in 5 or 7 (small tanks/larger tanks).
Gouramis, Discus, mbuna (3 or 5), Corys, Loaches, Rainbows (4-6) etc etc.
There's probably a grain of logic behind this. Perhaps it was just so
customers would ask, giving us an opportunity to talk about their behaviour
and what their tank-mates were going to be. There are some patterns though;
smaller numbers of territorial fish go in odd numbers, bottom-feeder
shoalers 4+, small water column shoalers 5+ (min).

ps: Harlequin rasboras are strong shoalers too, as Elaine pointed out. One
LFS manager claimed they were the best, so he always kept the window display
full of them.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Gill Passman]

NetMax wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>NetMax wrote:
>>
>>>"Guido" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>FishNoob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>>>>>
>>>>>Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
>>>>>glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind
>>>>>and stick with it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've got three kinds of tetras in my tank right now - 4 neon, 3 cardinal,
>>>>and I think the last one's called a bloodfin (red fins, grey body). The
>>>>neons and cardinals generally stay together, but they don't seem to like
>>>>the bloodfin. Not sure why that is, but he's generally off swimming on
>>>>his own... at one point, I think he thought he was part of the school of
>>>>danios!
>>>>
>>>>Gord
>>>
>>>
>>>Tetras will shoal if they are feeling vulnerable (having a Bloodfin
>>>around might have that effect). Some tetras are weak shoalers, like
>>>Neons, Skirts, Red-eye, Lemon etc and some are strong shoalers (Rummys
>>>tend to hold their formation better). Danios tend to shoal strong, when
>>>it suits them. Generally, the longer and thinner they are (and more
>>>active swimmers) the more their tendency to shoal (according to how
>>>vulnerable they feel, or whatever other reasons promotes shoaling, such
>>>as hunting for food). This is just from my limited observations though.
>>>Monos, Silver dollars, Pacus and Piranhas all tend to shoal as well and
>>>they are not long & thin, but are active swimmers.
>>>
>>>I always use odd numbers for small groups of tetras, ie: 5 or 7.
>>
>>
>>Why odd numbers?
>>
>>Gill
>
>
> That's how I would sell them (and maybe I'm kind of odd ;~). Livebearers
> were sold in 3s (1M/2F) or 5 (2M/3F). Apistos were sold in harems (1M and
> 3F). Tetras, danios and rasboras in 5 or 7 (small tanks/larger tanks).
> Gouramis, Discus, mbuna (3 or 5), Corys, Loaches, Rainbows (4-6) etc etc.
> There's probably a grain of logic behind this. Perhaps it was just so
> customers would ask, giving us an opportunity to talk about their behaviour
> and what their tank-mates were going to be. There are some patterns though;
> smaller numbers of territorial fish go in odd numbers, bottom-feeder
> shoalers 4+, small water column shoalers 5+ (min).
>
> ps: Harlequin rasboras are strong shoalers too, as Elaine pointed out. One
> LFS manager claimed they were the best, so he always kept the window display
> full of them.

I was just curious as to whether there is any logic in this. One place I
go sells them discounted at sixes the other at fives....other fish I get
the logic like 1M to multiple female Mbunas/Gouramis/Platys etc applies.
Clowns in batches of 3 but then another place sells them as two's...but
then do other things with other fishes. I now take the attitude that I
buy the number I think will work rather than what is suggested....

And yep my Harlequin rasboras are great shoalers probably the most
inclined of all the fish that I have, they are always together. The
rummys do schoal but only after lights on and they know food is a
possibility :-)

Actually I do believe that there is some logic behind this especially
when you are looking for a male/female balance which lets face it
doesn't happen with tetras - it's "I've got them in the net here you go"
IME but maybe different things happen elsewhere....

Gill

[Gill Passman]

Elaine T wrote:
> NetMax wrote:
>
>> "Guido" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> FishNoob wrote:
>>>
>>>> How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>>>>
>>>> Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
>>>> glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one
>>>> kind and stick with it?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've got three kinds of tetras in my tank right now - 4 neon, 3
>>> cardinal, and I think the last one's called a bloodfin (red fins,
>>> grey body). The neons and cardinals generally stay together, but
>>> they don't seem to like the bloodfin. Not sure why that is, but he's
>>> generally off swimming on his own... at one point, I think he thought
>>> he was part of the school of danios!
>>>
>>> Gord
>>
>>
>>
>> Tetras will shoal if they are feeling vulnerable (having a Bloodfin
>> around might have that effect). Some tetras are weak shoalers, like
>> Neons, Skirts, Red-eye, Lemon etc and some are strong shoalers (Rummys
>> tend to hold their formation better). Danios tend to shoal strong,
>> when it suits them. Generally, the longer and thinner they are (and
>> more active swimmers) the more their tendency to shoal (according to
>> how vulnerable they feel, or whatever other reasons promotes shoaling,
>> such as hunting for food). This is just from my limited observations
>> though. Monos, Silver dollars, Pacus and Piranhas all tend to shoal
>> as well and they are not long & thin, but are active swimmers.
>>
>> I always use odd numbers for small groups of tetras, ie: 5 or 7.
>
>
> Rather than tetras, I prefer harlequin rasboras for shoaling. They tend
> to hold a very nice formation in a part of the tank where the current is
> good. My cardinals shoal quite nicely when the discus lunges at them to
> guard his dinner.
>
> I've seen neons and cardinals shoal together before. Very different
> looking tetras like black skirts and cardinals don't tend to shoal with
> each other. YMMV, though, especially with solo fish. My SAE shoals
> with the completely unrelated rasboras much of the time, hovering in
> midwater or sitting on a nearby leaf.
>

I think the Harlequin Rasboras look absolutely great shoaling and they
are much the same size as tetras....

Gill

[NetMax]

"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...
> How many tetras are needed to allow them to shoal?
>
> Will a mixture of different kinds - eg neons, head-and-taillight,
> glowlight, cardinal - shoal together, or do I need to choose one kind
> and stick with it?
>
> --
> FishNoob

There is no guarantee covering fish shoaling with each other. You can
buy just Neons and they will break into 2 groups, or one will never join
in, or they don't group at all. If you want them to group, you improve
your chances first by grouping the same type of fish, 5, 6 or 7 tetras of
some sort. After that, fish with similar body size and motion will
sometimes shoal together, such as the Head & Taillight and Glowlight
tetras you mentioned. Sometimes it is a matter of what is available.
Interestingly, colour doesn't seem to rank very high in their estimation
of another fish's suitability for company. Mix a group of Tiger barbs
with Green & Albino tiger barbs and they will shoal, argue and bicker
together as if they were all brothers and sisters.

When stocking tetras, try for 5 to 7 of each type, going with contrasting
types (looks nicer), of roughly not more than 1 type per 5-10g of volume.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Rod Bacon]

I agree with this statement about feeling vulnerable. When I first put
my 12 neons in the tank, they stuck together like glue for the first
day or so. Now that they've settled in, they are randomly distributed
around the tank, unless startled by an unusual noise (the kids!).

Although it's not as aesthetically pleasing, I take this as a good
sign, in that I appear to have created a peaceful environment, at least
from the neons' perspective.

[FishNoob]

In article >,
says...
> It really depends what kind of an effect you are looking for IMO the
> more the better - he,he. Generally I go no less than 5 depending on the
> multiples being sold in the LFS.

TBH I was asking more from a kindness perspective LOL

It does look good when they shoal, but I was assuming that types of
fish that shoal would be happier in groups than in ones and twos, and
my main concern was to keep the fish healthy and happy. Maybe my
assumption is wrong? Anyway, we've got five neon tetras in there now
:-)

--
FishNoob

[Elaine T]

FishNoob wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>It really depends what kind of an effect you are looking for IMO the
>>more the better - he,he. Generally I go no less than 5 depending on the
>>multiples being sold in the LFS.
>
>
> TBH I was asking more from a kindness perspective LOL
>
> It does look good when they shoal, but I was assuming that types of
> fish that shoal would be happier in groups than in ones and twos, and
> my main concern was to keep the fish healthy and happy. Maybe my
> assumption is wrong? Anyway, we've got five neon tetras in there now
> :-)
>
Heh. We sure did read that wrong. Yes, shoaling fish tend to be
healthier and happier in groups of their own kind. I've even seen lone
clown loaches and Otocinclus refuse to eat and waste away. Adding
buddies reverses the problem, so I don't think what I've seen is
disease. I generally start with a minimum of three shoaling fish in
small tanks, and four or five in larger tanks.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[LARRY BLANCHARD]

In article >,
says...
> Livebearers
> were sold in 3s (1M/2F) or 5 (2M/3F). Apistos were sold in harems (1M and
> 3F). Tetras, danios and rasboras in 5 or 7 (small tanks/larger tanks).
> Gouramis, Discus, mbuna (3 or 5), Corys, Loaches, Rainbows (4-6) etc etc.
>
I remember seeing somewhere that rainbows were opposite in the sex mix.
Apparently more males than females keeps the males displaying in
competition. Anyone verified this?

[NetMax]

"LARRY BLANCHARD" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> Livebearers
>> were sold in 3s (1M/2F) or 5 (2M/3F). Apistos were sold in harems (1M
>> and
>> 3F). Tetras, danios and rasboras in 5 or 7 (small tanks/larger
>> tanks).
>> Gouramis, Discus, mbuna (3 or 5), Corys, Loaches, Rainbows (4-6) etc
>> etc.
>>
> I remember seeing somewhere that rainbows were opposite in the sex mix.
> Apparently more males than females keeps the males displaying in
> competition. Anyone verified this?

Yes, especially with smaller rainbows like Dwarfs & Featherfins in a
smaller tank. Larger rainbows in smaller tanks would I think be more
problematic. I found that some can get quite animated (Iranian Reds,
Bosemani etc). Best is to have groups in med (4') to larger (5') tanks
(imo).
--
www.NetMax.tk