Cell Pore users, feedback please.

[Marksfish]

Please excuse the cross post, I am trying to get a cross section response to
my query.

I purchased a couple of sheets of cell pore when it was first on sale all
those years ago, thinking I would use it in my then marine tank. I never
used it and it is still in the packaging it arrived in. I am now in the
process of planning my new aquarium and am wondering how best to use it. I
will have a sump where I will be placing a deep sand bed. My thought was to
place the sheets under the sand to act as an extra area for denitrification.
Does anyone have experience of using it this way?

Thanks

Mark
www.marksfish.me.uk

[Frank]

Without a way for the water to flow *through* the cell pore media,
there will be no nitrifying bacteria within it.......... Frank

[Marksfish]

> Without a way for the water to flow *through* the cell pore media,
> there will be no nitrifying bacteria within it.......... Frank
>
But surely you could say that about live rock and sintered glass materials?

The structures are so dense that mineral rich water will get to the
structure where the anaerobic bacteria will be able to survive. Isn't that
how the plenum and deep sand bed methods work, or am I missing something?

Cheers

Mark

[Frank]

The void space within the ceramic pore block is larger than the
prefered granular size media (below 0.2mm but above 0.050mm), for a DSB
(deep sand bed). The larger void space and SSA (specific surface area)
within the block is best suited for aerobic bacteria for decomposition
of organic material. In a DSB, nitrAtes are pulled down into the
Anaerobic bacteria level, 1.5 to 2" and deeper, by diffusion, where the
media's void space SSA should be much smaller than that of the cell
pore block - something such as "Miracle Mud" would be a much better
media for a DSB area within your sump. ........... Frank

[Marksfish]

Thanks for that Frank, much appreciated.

Regards

Mark

[Frank]

You building your own sump? ..............Frank

[Marksfish]

> You building your own sump? ..............Frank
>
The sump has been built and I am having to modify it by adding an extra
chamber to enable the DSB to be built up. Unfortunately the person who built
it didn't listen to what I asked and the water flow is down, up, down, up.
Nothing major, the glass for the extra panel arrived yesterday, so when I am
ready to add the tank connectors and the other small pieces of glass in the
aquarium, I shall break open the silicon.

Mark

[Frank]

Filtering a sal****er tank has changed so much sence I had a sal****er
set-up - mine was fish only and filtered with an UGF, as were the salt
tanks in the store. Last year a friend asked me to build him a sump for
his salt tank. After a ton of homework I used the sump found here;
http://www.reef-eden.com/DSBs.htm , with a few small changes to make it
a little easyer to build. I used a 20 gal.all glass tank with a 10 gal.
all glass tank within it for the DSB. By the time I had it finished it,
he doubled the size of the tank, so I had to build a second sump. It
ended up working out great - he had a little trouble with the DSB media
in the first sump and had to do it over. The second sump was set-up
with Miracle Mud and to date has worked out great - now he has a real
fine sand in the first sump, he keeps saying he's going to remove it
and replace it with the Miracle Mud. He keeps saying when he sets up
his second sal****er tank, he wants two sumps under it also............
Frank

[Marksfish]

"> Filtering a sal****er tank has changed so much sence I had a sal****er
> set-up - mine was fish only and filtered with an UGF, as were the salt
> tanks in the store.
>
Me too. I have had a couple of marine tanks in the past. I have managed to
find some details on a couple of them if you fancy a look. They are at my
page under the marine link, www.marksfish.me.uk, as well as my current
project.

>Last year a friend asked me to build him a sump for
> his salt tank. After a ton of homework I used the sump found here;
> http://www.reef-eden.com/DSBs.htm , with a few small changes to make it
> a little easyer to build. I used a 20 gal.all glass tank with a 10 gal.
> all glass tank within it for the DSB.

I had a look at a sump from here http://www.melevsreef.com/sump.html. Mine
is basically a three foot tank with glass dividers in. In the first chamber
which has a flow under plate, I will put some egg crate at the bottom and
some bio balls in the chamber. The second chamber I will place a heater.
Third chamber I will put my Caribsea Aragonite fine sand to an initial depth
of 2" (I did consider Miracle Mud but the UK cost is a bit prohibitive) and
caulerpa culture. 4th chamber which was unnecessarily caused will be empty
and chamber 5 will have the return pump in it. Looks like I will be leaving
out the cell pore this time!!

Hopefully the structure goes into place in the next couple of weeks (fingers
crossed).

Thanks for all your input Frank.

Regards

Mark

[Frank]

Liked your site, tanks, and pond. You know, about the time you get the
pond area all done and *really* looking good, your pond isn't going to
be as large as you want. I've been there - done that, redid it, and
done it again. My age (or wife - flip a coin) is stopping me from
changing it again...
With a DSB of only 2" of sand, I wouldn't think it's deep enough to
change the nitrAte to gas (?). My understanding is that you need at
least 4 to 6"s, and then if the water flows across it to fast, it won't
work............. Frank

[Marksfish]

> Liked your site, tanks, and pond. You know, about the time you get the
> pond area all done and *really* looking good, your pond isn't going to
> be as large as you want. I've been there - done that, redid it, and
> done it again. My age (or wife - flip a coin) is stopping me from
> changing it again...
> With a DSB of only 2" of sand, I wouldn't think it's deep enough to
> change the nitrAte to gas (?). My understanding is that you need at
> least 4 to 6"s, and then if the water flows across it to fast, it won't
> work............. Frank
>
Hi Frank

Yes, the pond is too small already :-) I'm not allowed to have another
though, I only got this one through default!!

I have read conflicting advice about DSB's. I have read Bob Goeman's book
several times and he seems to suggest that anything over 3"- 4" doesn't
actually have ay benefit. I have also read on other groups and forums that
between 2"- 4" is the way to go. That said, I am going to make mine into a
refugium, so hopefully once the caulerpa starts a growth spurt, that will
prevent the nitrates from growing too much.

Some of the shops I have been into have Miracle Mud systems where the water
flows through the sump up to 10 times per hour, but most less than that.
Mine will turn over about 7- 8 times per hour with the sump pump I have.
Reliance on water movement by powerhead is heavy, along with the use of
Hydor rotating powerhead attachments (http://www.hydor.it/inglese/flo.htm).
I have since bought a couple of these at a good price on eBay, just need the
powerheads for them now!!

I got my RO unit yesterday, a 2nd hand unit from eBay but I have bought new
membrane ad filters for it. I'm hoping to plumb that in this weekend to
begin preparing water for the fill. That will give me the added incentive to
get the carpet cleaned before moving the room around :-)

Impatience is starting to set in now. I know that I must be more patient
than I am but.......

Cheers

Mark