trouble with shumbkins??

[graham chapman]

My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair in town, and so I decided to
treat her to a 15 litre tank, with gravel, ornaments, filter etc.., and
fed the fish with granular fish food, and not the flakes, which i hear
could contain snails!!?? . all was well, then she decided she wanted
another, so i bought a shumbkin fish, from my local pet store, just to
keep the goldfish company. The shumbkin died within a week, the symptoms
were, that the fish seemed listless, would not rise from the bottom of
the tank, and after suffering with this condition, ended up on it's
side- dead.
Right, I'll buy her another one, this time from a different store, and
this time, I'll prepare the tank water , not only with filtered water,
but treat it with chlorine control, and add a few drops of "Gold"
Disease safe, designed to make sick fish better. It treats symptoms,
such as ragged or blood streaked fins, unusual swimming action or loss
of balance, cotton wool like growths, slimy white skin, or spots, cloudy
eyes, and white spots.
So, i bought another Shumbkin, and within 2 weeks, that one is on it's
last legs (or should that be fins??) with EXACTLY the same symptoms as
the first one!! it's looking rather sad sitting at the bottom of the
isolation tank, and I'm at a loss what to try next. The original
goldfish that was won at a fair, is swimming nicely, back in the main
tank, so..
Could the water be contaminated?
Could the first goldfish, have some transmitted disease (if there is one..)
Should I risk another Shumbkin, or buy a goldfish instead?
Should I mix Shumbkins with goldfish?
My daughter who's only 12 is upset that the second one is on it's way
out, and I dare not ruin things further, by making a wrong decision, and
choosing an unsuitable fish
Graham

[NanK]

Wow, you guys are off to a really bad start. Let's see if we can
recover you a bit. Shebunkins ARE goldfish, but they are fast and grow
to over 12 inches. No, don't mix fancy goldfish with these. They
cannot compete with the Shebunkins for food.

These are the most common mistakes:
1. OVERCROWDING: Shebunkins do not belong in tiny tanks; they need HUGE
bodies of water or ponds to do well. If you want to start over, get a
TINY fantail and be prepared to provide 10g per fish -- the sooner the
better.

2. OVERFEEDING: Eyeball size, itsy bitsy amount of food, 1X-2X each
day. More pollutes the water. You can feed less, and more often.

3. BAD WATER: Water has become polluted from too much food or fish
waste or inadequate filtration. (What kind of filter are you using? Do
you do water changes?)

4. TEMPERATURE SHOCK: Did you float your bag to make certain
temperature in bag and in tank were the same.

5. PH SHOCK: Did you acclimate the new fish before putting it into your
tank, adding a bit of water to the bag every few minutes?

6. UNCYCLED TANK: Adding fish before your filter can digest waste
products from fish and uneaten foods.

Here is a website to help you.
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/home.html

What to do NOW that the damage is done...
Change 100% of the water in the tank. Check to see that the filter is
working (outside power filter is easiest to service) and make sure the
filter is 2X the power needed for the size of the tank you have.

Rinse out everything in the filter (sponge, carbon, etc.), put it back
in the tank, and let it run for a couple of days. Add PRIME or another
dechlor product. If you have the wrong sized filter, leave the first
filter running while you add the second filter.

Add a SMALL GOLDFISH. Get a product called STABILITY (Sea Chem) or
CYCLE and use it according to instructions. This will help seed your
filter quickly.

When the one fish is doing well, add a second. NO MORE until you get a
bigger tank. (10 gallons per goldfish minimum).

Flakes do not cause snails. Snails eat leftover food in the tank and
multiply. They come in on plants usually.

graham chapman wrote:

> My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair in town, and so I decided to
> treat her to a 15 litre tank, with gravel, ornaments, filter etc.., and
> fed the fish with granular fish food, and not the flakes, which i hear
> could contain snails!!?? . all was well, then she decided she wanted
> another, so i bought a shumbkin fish, from my local pet store, just to
> keep the goldfish company. The shumbkin died within a week, the symptoms
> were, that the fish seemed listless, would not rise from the bottom of
> the tank, and after suffering with this condition, ended up on it's
> side- dead.
> Right, I'll buy her another one, this time from a different store, and
> this time, I'll prepare the tank water , not only with filtered water,
> but treat it with chlorine control, and add a few drops of "Gold"
> Disease safe, designed to make sick fish better. It treats symptoms,
> such as ragged or blood streaked fins, unusual swimming action or loss
> of balance, cotton wool like growths, slimy white skin, or spots, cloudy
> eyes, and white spots.
> So, i bought another Shumbkin, and within 2 weeks, that one is on it's
> last legs (or should that be fins??) with EXACTLY the same symptoms as
> the first one!! it's looking rather sad sitting at the bottom of the
> isolation tank, and I'm at a loss what to try next. The original
> goldfish that was won at a fair, is swimming nicely, back in the main
> tank, so..
> Could the water be contaminated?
> Could the first goldfish, have some transmitted disease (if there is one..)
> Should I risk another Shumbkin, or buy a goldfish instead?
> Should I mix Shumbkins with goldfish?
> My daughter who's only 12 is upset that the second one is on it's way
> out, and I dare not ruin things further, by making a wrong decision, and
> choosing an unsuitable fish
> Graham

[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care1.htm#essentials

graham chapman > wrote:

>My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair in town, and so I decided to
>treat her to a 15 litre tank, with gravel, ornaments, filter etc.., and
>fed the fish with granular fish food, and not the flakes, which i hear
>could contain snails!!?? . all was well, then she decided she wanted
>another, so i bought a shumbkin fish, from my local pet store, just to
>keep the goldfish company. The shumbkin died within a week, the symptoms
>were, that the fish seemed listless, would not rise from the bottom of
>the tank, and after suffering with this condition, ended up on it's
>side- dead.
>Right, I'll buy her another one, this time from a different store, and
>this time, I'll prepare the tank water , not only with filtered water,
>but treat it with chlorine control, and add a few drops of "Gold"
>Disease safe, designed to make sick fish better. It treats symptoms,
>such as ragged or blood streaked fins, unusual swimming action or loss
>of balance, cotton wool like growths, slimy white skin, or spots, cloudy
>eyes, and white spots.
>So, i bought another Shumbkin, and within 2 weeks, that one is on it's
>last legs (or should that be fins??) with EXACTLY the same symptoms as
>the first one!! it's looking rather sad sitting at the bottom of the
>isolation tank, and I'm at a loss what to try next. The original
>goldfish that was won at a fair, is swimming nicely, back in the main
>tank, so..
>Could the water be contaminated?
>Could the first goldfish, have some transmitted disease (if there is one..)
>Should I risk another Shumbkin, or buy a goldfish instead?
>Should I mix Shumbkins with goldfish?
>My daughter who's only 12 is upset that the second one is on it's way
>out, and I dare not ruin things further, by making a wrong decision, and
>choosing an unsuitable fish
>Graham



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[graham chapman]

NanK wrote:
> Wow, you guys are off to a really bad start. Let's see if we can
> recover you a bit. Shebunkins ARE goldfish, but they are fast and grow
> to over 12 inches. No, don't mix fancy goldfish with these. They
> cannot compete with the Shebunkins for food.
>
> These are the most common mistakes:
> 1. OVERCROWDING: Shebunkins do not belong in tiny tanks; they need HUGE
> bodies of water or ponds to do well. If you want to start over, get a
> TINY fantail and be prepared to provide 10g per fish -- the sooner the
> better.
>
> 2. OVERFEEDING: Eyeball size, itsy bitsy amount of food, 1X-2X each
> day. More pollutes the water. You can feed less, and more often.
>
> 3. BAD WATER: Water has become polluted from too much food or fish
> waste or inadequate filtration. (What kind of filter are you using? Do
> you do water changes?)
>
> 4. TEMPERATURE SHOCK: Did you float your bag to make certain
> temperature in bag and in tank were the same.
>
> 5. PH SHOCK: Did you acclimate the new fish before putting it into your
> tank, adding a bit of water to the bag every few minutes?
>
> 6. UNCYCLED TANK: Adding fish before your filter can digest waste
> products from fish and uneaten foods.
>
> Here is a website to help you.
> http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/home.html
>
> What to do NOW that the damage is done...
> Change 100% of the water in the tank. Check to see that the filter is
> working (outside power filter is easiest to service) and make sure the
> filter is 2X the power needed for the size of the tank you have.
>
> Rinse out everything in the filter (sponge, carbon, etc.), put it back
> in the tank, and let it run for a couple of days. Add PRIME or another
> dechlor product. If you have the wrong sized filter, leave the first
> filter running while you add the second filter.
>
> Add a SMALL GOLDFISH. Get a product called STABILITY (Sea Chem) or
> CYCLE and use it according to instructions. This will help seed your
> filter quickly.
>
> When the one fish is doing well, add a second. NO MORE until you get a
> bigger tank. (10 gallons per goldfish minimum).
>
> Flakes do not cause snails. Snails eat leftover food in the tank and
> multiply. They come in on plants usually.
>
> graham chapman wrote:
>
>> My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair in town, and so I decided
>> to treat her to a 15 litre tank, with gravel, ornaments, filter etc..,
>> and fed the fish with granular fish food, and not the flakes, which i
>> hear could contain snails!!?? . all was well, then she decided she
>> wanted another, so i bought a shumbkin fish, from my local pet store,
>> just to keep the goldfish company. The shumbkin died within a week,
>> the symptoms were, that the fish seemed listless, would not rise from
>> the bottom of the tank, and after suffering with this condition, ended
>> up on it's side- dead.
>> Right, I'll buy her another one, this time from a different store, and
>> this time, I'll prepare the tank water , not only with filtered water,
>> but treat it with chlorine control, and add a few drops of "Gold"
>> Disease safe, designed to make sick fish better. It treats symptoms,
>> such as ragged or blood streaked fins, unusual swimming action or loss
>> of balance, cotton wool like growths, slimy white skin, or spots,
>> cloudy eyes, and white spots.
>> So, i bought another Shumbkin, and within 2 weeks, that one is on it's
>> last legs (or should that be fins??) with EXACTLY the same symptoms as
>> the first one!! it's looking rather sad sitting at the bottom of the
>> isolation tank, and I'm at a loss what to try next. The original
>> goldfish that was won at a fair, is swimming nicely, back in the main
>> tank, so..
>> Could the water be contaminated?
>> Could the first goldfish, have some transmitted disease (if there is
>> one..)
>> Should I risk another Shumbkin, or buy a goldfish instead?
>> Should I mix Shumbkins with goldfish?
>> My daughter who's only 12 is upset that the second one is on it's way
>> out, and I dare not ruin things further, by making a wrong decision,
>> and choosing an unsuitable fish
>> Graham
Thanks for your help, The shumbkin, is still alive, in the isolation
tank, I've added a filter to the tank, and also added a crushed pea to
the tank. I've read that crushed peas, without shells can improve
things. How often should I change the water in the isolation tank? I
think next time, I'll get a small goldfish, as I don't like the sound of
mixing goldfish with shumbkins..
Graham

[Reel Mckoi]

"graham chapman" > wrote in message
...
> My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair in town, and so I decided to
> treat her to a 15 litre tank, with gravel, ornaments, filter etc.., and
> fed the fish with granular fish food, and not the flakes, which i hear
> could contain snails!!?? .

$$ The flakes cannot contain snails as it's cooked and dried. Nothing would
survive that.

all was well, then she decided she wanted
> another, so i bought a shumbkin fish, from my local pet store, just to
> keep the goldfish company. The shumbkin died within a week, the symptoms
> were, that the fish seemed listless, would not rise from the bottom of the
> tank, and after suffering with this condition, ended up on it's side-
> dead.
> Right, I'll buy her another one, this time from a different store, and
> this time, I'll prepare the tank water , not only with filtered water, but
> treat it with chlorine control, and add a few drops of "Gold" Disease
> safe, designed to make sick fish better. It treats symptoms, such as
> ragged or blood streaked fins, unusual swimming action or loss of balance,
> cotton wool like growths, slimy white skin, or spots, cloudy eyes, and
> white spots.

$$ Keep in mind that these "cure alls" are little more than snake oil.

> So, i bought another Shumbkin, and within 2 weeks, that one is on it's
> last legs (or should that be fins??) with EXACTLY the same symptoms as the
> first one!! it's looking rather sad sitting at the bottom of the isolation
> tank, and I'm at a loss what to try next.

$$ Have you checked for ammonia and nitrites? Do you understand the
nitrogen cycle?

The original
> goldfish that was won at a fair, is swimming nicely, back in the main
> tank, so..
> Could the water be contaminated?
> Could the first goldfish, have some transmitted disease (if there is
> one..)
> Should I risk another Shumbkin, or buy a goldfish instead?
> Should I mix Shumbkins with goldfish?

$$ I'm not familiar with the metric system but each goldfish/shubunkin needs
8 to 10 GALLONS of filtered and aerated water each.

> My daughter who's only 12 is upset that the second one is on it's way out,
> and I dare not ruin things further, by making a wrong decision, and
> choosing an unsuitable fish
> Graham

$$ Please Google the net for Goldfish and their care before you purchase
another fish.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel Mckoi]

"graham chapman" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for your help, The shumbkin, is still alive, in the isolation tank,
> I've added a filter to the tank, and also added a crushed pea to the tank.
> I've read that crushed peas, without shells can improve things.

$$ Peas are not a natural part of a goldfishes diet. They can't improve
anything and in fact rot quickly in water if not eaten.

How often should I change the water in the isolation tank? I
> think next time, I'll get a small goldfish, as I don't like the sound of
> mixing goldfish with shumbkins..
> Graham

$$ Fancy goldfish can't compete well with the slimmer, faster shubunkin.
Both types get quite large if healthy and well fed.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Graham,

Sounds like you've fallen into the trap of thinking goldfish are
easy pets to care for. Wrong. Cats and dogs are probably easier
if you want to do things right.

10 gallons per fish. Shubunkins require 20gallons+ each, perferably
a pond!

Visit the site Ingrid(Dr Solo) suggested, or join the community at
http://www.goldfishparadise.com as it is very active and you will
get good advice there!

[Curious George]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:45:39 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:

>Graham,
>
>Sounds like you've fallen into the trap of thinking goldfish are
>easy pets to care for. Wrong. Cats and dogs are probably easier
>if you want to do things right.

OMG. I think you were listening in on me.

[graham chapman]

Curious George wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:45:39 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Graham,
>>
>>Sounds like you've fallen into the trap of thinking goldfish are
>>easy pets to care for. Wrong. Cats and dogs are probably easier
>>if you want to do things right.
>
>
> OMG. I think you were listening in on me.
I finally bought another goldfish, after following the advice on this
group. I was told by my local fish dealer, who breeds certain fish and
sells Coy, fantails, Shumkins, as well as tropical fish, that a lot of
fish that comes from pet stores are extremely stressed out, and that
they have a fast turnover of fish. I said that one of the fish that
died, had blood streaks on it's fins, and he said it was probably
stress. He also suggested not buying shubkins, as they are more suited
to larger ponds. He advised me, so look after the water, rather than the
fish- as long as you have the water right, then the fish should be OK.
he said that as far as my water care was concerned, i was doing the
right things, e.g.. filter, bubble stones, adding chlorine control to
the water, before adding the fish, introducing the fish in its bag, to
the main tank before releasing it, to get used to the water temperature,
was fine. he didn't know, however, "the adding of peas treatment"
http://tinyurl.com/8uv3m I'm not sure of carrying on this method of
feeding like as an earlier poster said,it will rot very quickly
The shumbkin is still in it's isolation tank, he hasn't improved neither
got worse, I'll continue with it being isolated from the main tank.
Thanks for your help