cycling questions (fishless)

[Dale Henderson]

I am trying to perform a fishless cycle on my aquarium. Currently I'm
adding 1/2 teaspoon of ammonia nightly (enough to bring the
concentration to 2ppm) and the next day my ammonia level is zero.

My concern is my Nitrite. About two weeks ago it spiked to 5ppm and
recently (about 5 days ago) it has fallen and held steady at
2ppm. So my question is how long should I expect the nitrite to be
this high?

Another oddity is my Nitrate. It raised from 5 to 10ppm and then it
seems to be falling. Since I have no plants in the aquarium, what
would cause this. I have noticed a white hair-like growth on a fake
rock that looks like fungus. Could this be an algae? And could this be
why my nitrate seems to be falling.


And when this process is finally finished how many fish should I put
in the aquarium? Should I start slow? Or is it safe to put a full
compliment of fish in the aquarium?

[NetMax]

"Dale Henderson" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am trying to perform a fishless cycle on my aquarium. Currently I'm
> adding 1/2 teaspoon of ammonia nightly (enough to bring the
> concentration to 2ppm) and the next day my ammonia level is zero.

This is good.

> My concern is my Nitrite. About two weeks ago it spiked to 5ppm and
> recently (about 5 days ago) it has fallen and held steady at
> 2ppm. So my question is how long should I expect the nitrite to be
> this high?

Either your filter is too small, or the presence of ammonia is inhibiting
the bacteria which consume the nitrite. I would stop adding ammonia.

> Another oddity is my Nitrate. It raised from 5 to 10ppm and then it
> seems to be falling. Since I have no plants in the aquarium, what
> would cause this. I have noticed a white hair-like growth on a fake
> rock that looks like fungus. Could this be an algae? And could this be
> why my nitrate seems to be falling.

Unknown. I can't imagine a fungus taking all those nitrates out, but who
knows? Maybe you should harvest the stuff and sell it on the internet
;~).

> And when this process is finally finished how many fish should I put
> in the aquarium? Should I start slow? Or is it safe to put a full
> compliment of fish in the aquarium?

When the cycle appears to be finished, drop in enough ammonia to take it
up to 5ppm and see if it all clears within 24 hours. If it clears, then
you should be ready for a good sized compliment of fish, though you
should still exercise caution. There is a lot of variables not being
divulged (size of tank, filter type, size/type of fish, feeding routine).
Generally speaking, 5ppm NH3/4 probably covers a full fish load of
juveniles when they grow up. If the tank will be holding 10 adult Silver
Dollars, then 5ppm consumed in 24 hours should position you to add 10
juvenile (ie: 6 month old) Silver Dollars. These are generalities. It
is possible to do the math, but it's not very precise and mostly over my
head anyways ;~). In any case, monitor the water and feed sparingly for
a few days, so you have plenty of time to react to any problems. hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Dale Henderson]

"NetMax" > writes:

> "Dale Henderson" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I am trying to perform a fishless cycle on my aquarium. Currently I'm
> > adding 1/2 teaspoon of ammonia nightly (enough to bring the
> > concentration to 2ppm) and the next day my ammonia level is zero.
>
> This is good.
>
> > My concern is my Nitrite. About two weeks ago it spiked to 5ppm and
> > recently (about 5 days ago) it has fallen and held steady at
> > 2ppm. So my question is how long should I expect the nitrite to be
> > this high?
>
> Either your filter is too small, or the presence of ammonia is inhibiting
> the bacteria which consume the nitrite. I would stop adding ammonia.
>

My aquarium is a 20 gallon with an undergravel filter and a power
filter. Each big enough for the aquarium.

After I read this post I looked at my filters. I first noticed I was
getting no flow through the power filter. After cleaning the rocks out
of the impellar and putting it back toghether It worked perfectly.

Then looking at the undergravel filter I noticed very little air
escaping from the top of the tubes. And realized that the airstones
are clogged and need replaced. So I removed the airstones and I seem
to have good flow. (I plan to buy new airstones when I get the
chance).But now I'm curious as to whether the airstones are really
necessary and what function they perform.

I also reread the fishless cycling pages and raised my temperature to
~90F. So now I can wait and see.

I am a little leary of stopping the ammonia. I'm concerned that my
ammonia-eating bacteria will starve.

[Daniel Morrow]

Mid posted.


"Dale Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> "NetMax" > writes:
>
> > "Dale Henderson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > I am trying to perform a fishless cycle on my aquarium. Currently I'm
> > > adding 1/2 teaspoon of ammonia nightly (enough to bring the
> > > concentration to 2ppm) and the next day my ammonia level is zero.
> >
> > This is good.
> >
> > > My concern is my Nitrite. About two weeks ago it spiked to 5ppm and
> > > recently (about 5 days ago) it has fallen and held steady at
> > > 2ppm. So my question is how long should I expect the nitrite to be
> > > this high?
> >
> > Either your filter is too small, or the presence of ammonia is
inhibiting
> > the bacteria which consume the nitrite. I would stop adding ammonia.
> >
>
> My aquarium is a 20 gallon with an undergravel filter and a power
> filter. Each big enough for the aquarium.
>
> After I read this post I looked at my filters. I first noticed I was
> getting no flow through the power filter. After cleaning the rocks out
> of the impellar and putting it back toghether It worked perfectly.
>
> Then looking at the undergravel filter I noticed very little air
> escaping from the top of the tubes. And realized that the airstones
> are clogged and need replaced. So I removed the airstones and I seem
> to have good flow. (I plan to buy new airstones when I get the
> chance)

Check out my post (a long time ago) on google groups by going to google
groups and searching for "Two helpful tips - spread the word" and clicking
on the second article. It details my method of renewing airstones with just
a bicycle pump and some water. It will let you use airstones for years at
the very least and you only have to do minimal maintenance. This way you
will never have to buy another airstone ever again. Airsrtones just plain
look better than plain bubbles and sometimes there are other reasons to use
Airstones (i.e. if you want less turbulence, say if you are aerating a tank
with a beta bubble nest containing baby fry for example). Good luck ad
later!

..But now I'm curious as to whether the airstones are really
> necessary and what function they perform.

When I was in high school I ran old style box filters (air powered) without
airstones for 4 approximate years straight, only occasionally cleaning the
media and paying no attention to the air line tube what so ever. You do need
filtration almost certainly but you don't necessarily need aeration
(although the other filtration methods have there own aeration methods (i.e.
turbulence on the water surface from a power filter outtake for example) so
maybe you always need aeration of some kind or another). Good luck (I use
airstones and love their look for what it's worth) and later!


>
> I also reread the fishless cycling pages and raised my temperature to
> ~90F. So now I can wait and see.
>
> I am a little leary of stopping the ammonia. I'm concerned that my
> ammonia-eating bacteria will starve.
>
>
>
>

[NetMax]

"Dale Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> "NetMax" > writes:
>
>> "Dale Henderson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > I am trying to perform a fishless cycle on my aquarium. Currently
>> > I'm
>> > adding 1/2 teaspoon of ammonia nightly (enough to bring the
>> > concentration to 2ppm) and the next day my ammonia level is zero.
>>
>> This is good.
>>
>> > My concern is my Nitrite. About two weeks ago it spiked to 5ppm and
>> > recently (about 5 days ago) it has fallen and held steady at
>> > 2ppm. So my question is how long should I expect the nitrite to be
>> > this high?
>>
>> Either your filter is too small, or the presence of ammonia is
>> inhibiting
>> the bacteria which consume the nitrite. I would stop adding ammonia.
>>
>
> My aquarium is a 20 gallon with an undergravel filter and a power
> filter. Each big enough for the aquarium.
>
> After I read this post I looked at my filters. I first noticed I was
> getting no flow through the power filter. After cleaning the rocks out
> of the impellar and putting it back toghether It worked perfectly.
>
> Then looking at the undergravel filter I noticed very little air
> escaping from the top of the tubes. And realized that the airstones
> are clogged and need replaced. So I removed the airstones and I seem
> to have good flow. (I plan to buy new airstones when I get the
> chance).But now I'm curious as to whether the airstones are really
> necessary and what function they perform.

Clogged filters would explain the underfiltration. You can operate a UGF
with or without airstones. The first designs didn't use airstones. I
find that the airstones make it a little more controllable.

> I also reread the fishless cycling pages and raised my temperature to
> ~90F. So now I can wait and see.

Might be nebulous advice. There are millions of strains of bacteria, and
the one you want is what will be matching your environment (pH, hardness,
temperature etc). Creating an artificial environment (90F) not only
promotes the wrong (or less ideal bacteria strain), but I think inhibits
bacterial growth. Elevated temperatures are a technique to kill bacteria
(ask any Discus owner). ymmv

> I am a little leary of stopping the ammonia. I'm concerned that my
> ammonia-eating bacteria will starve.

That's generally not a problem as these bacteria go dormant as a regular
part of their routine, however the presence of ammonia has been
documented to inhibit the formation of nitrobacter, leading to what is
known as a never-ending cycle. Google the archives for testimonials. If
in doubt, then stop the ammonia for 2-3 days, and then re-start at your
discretion at some interval (every 2-3 days?). I've done fishless cycles
with only a single application of ammonia to 5ppm. Seemed to work fine.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Dale Henderson]

"NetMax" > writes:

> "Dale Henderson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "NetMax" > writes:
> >
> >> "Dale Henderson" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > I am trying to perform a fishless cycle on my aquarium. Currently
> >> > I'm
> >> > adding 1/2 teaspoon of ammonia nightly (enough to bring the
> >> > concentration to 2ppm) and the next day my ammonia level is zero.
> >>
> >> This is good.
> >>
> >> > My concern is my Nitrite. About two weeks ago it spiked to 5ppm and
> >> > recently (about 5 days ago) it has fallen and held steady at
> >> > 2ppm. So my question is how long should I expect the nitrite to be
> >> > this high?
> >>
> >> Either your filter is too small, or the presence of ammonia is
> >> inhibiting
> >> the bacteria which consume the nitrite. I would stop adding ammonia.
> >>
> >
> > My aquarium is a 20 gallon with an undergravel filter and a power
> > filter. Each big enough for the aquarium.
> >
> > After I read this post I looked at my filters. I first noticed I was
> > getting no flow through the power filter. After cleaning the rocks out
> > of the impellar and putting it back toghether It worked perfectly.
> >
> > Then looking at the undergravel filter I noticed very little air
> > escaping from the top of the tubes. And realized that the airstones
> > are clogged and need replaced. So I removed the airstones and I seem
> > to have good flow. (I plan to buy new airstones when I get the
> > chance).But now I'm curious as to whether the airstones are really
> > necessary and what function they perform.
>
> Clogged filters would explain the underfiltration. You can operate a UGF
> with or without airstones. The first designs didn't use airstones. I
> find that the airstones make it a little more controllable.
>
> > I also reread the fishless cycling pages and raised my temperature to
> > ~90F. So now I can wait and see.
>
> Might be nebulous advice. There are millions of strains of bacteria, and
> the one you want is what will be matching your environment (pH, hardness,
> temperature etc). Creating an artificial environment (90F) not only
> promotes the wrong (or less ideal bacteria strain), but I think inhibits
> bacterial growth. Elevated temperatures are a technique to kill bacteria
> (ask any Discus owner). ymmv

I just checked my water. (I put ammonia in it last night.) My ammonia
is 0 and the nitrite is .5 and nitrate is 40. So something seems to
have helped. But your warnings about incorrect strains are duly noted.

I was feeling adventurous tonight and added 1tsp ammonia (enough to
bring the level to 4ppm) And the ammonia seems to have instanly clouded the
water. I've never seen this with smaller doses and wonder whats going
on. It's too soon to be bacteria bloom isn't it?


>
> > I am a little leary of stopping the ammonia. I'm concerned that my
> > ammonia-eating bacteria will starve.
>
> That's generally not a problem as these bacteria go dormant as a regular
> part of their routine, however the presence of ammonia has been
> documented to inhibit the formation of nitrobacter, leading to what is
> known as a never-ending cycle. Google the archives for testimonials. If
> in doubt, then stop the ammonia for 2-3 days, and then re-start at your
> discretion at some interval (every 2-3 days?). I've done fishless cycles
> with only a single application of ammonia to 5ppm. Seemed to work fine.

This is why I was asking about fish load before. I didn't want to
start small and let most of my bacteria die and then rebuild it when
new fish are added.

I plan to treat this as an aquarium that hasn't been cycled when I
get fish. i.e. small fish-load, add fish slowly etc.

[IDzine01]

Dale it's possible that both your filters stopping could have caused a
hiccup in your cycle. (The majority of good bacteria live in the
filter)

Also, what I generally do is cut the ammount of ammonia added by half
once I see nitrites for the first time. This keeps the bacteria fed and
seems to keep the cycle on course. I've cycled many tanks fishlessley.
Kudos for trying. :D