Clown Loach Ich Treatment Options

[jim]

I bought 4 clown loaches 3 weeks ago and they developed Ich 2 weeks ago.
Upon seeing the spots, I immediately began treating with Rid Ich (formalin,
malachite green). I have been treating every other day at slightly less
than the recommended 1 tsp/10gal dosage. The loaches do not show any signs
of being adversely affected by the treatment but unfortunately it seems to
be doing no good in getting rid of the Ich.

The loaches are in a 10 gal quarantine tank.

The water has low KH (2) and medium GH (8-9).
pH is 7.0
Ammonia/Nitrite are 0
Nitrate is very low as I've been doing 40% water changes before each
treatment.

I've been feeding with freeze dried bloodworms. The loaches eat very well
and always have excellent appetite. One of the loaches is showing signs of
weakening with ripped fins.

Any opinions on what to do?

Thanks for any help,
Jim

[Gill Passman]

jim wrote:
> I bought 4 clown loaches 3 weeks ago and they developed Ich 2 weeks ago.
> Upon seeing the spots, I immediately began treating with Rid Ich (formalin,
> malachite green). I have been treating every other day at slightly less
> than the recommended 1 tsp/10gal dosage. The loaches do not show any signs
> of being adversely affected by the treatment but unfortunately it seems to
> be doing no good in getting rid of the Ich.
>
> The loaches are in a 10 gal quarantine tank.
>
> The water has low KH (2) and medium GH (8-9).
> pH is 7.0
> Ammonia/Nitrite are 0
> Nitrate is very low as I've been doing 40% water changes before each
> treatment.
>
> I've been feeding with freeze dried bloodworms. The loaches eat very well
> and always have excellent appetite. One of the loaches is showing signs of
> weakening with ripped fins.
>
> Any opinions on what to do?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Jim
>
>
Got the same problem with my Clowns so you have my sympathy :-( We can't
get Rid Ich in the UK so I have tried both products that are available
(Interpet Anti White Spot and Protozin) and neither are shifting it. I'm
about to redose with Protozin once it the tank is clear of the previous
doses (carbon in filter and water changes).

Have you tried raising the temperature and adding salt? I've got mine up
at 31C at the moment and have been adding 1tsp per gallon of the water I
remove...

Two of my Clowns are now clear (after around 2 weeks of treating) but
the other three are still not good.

I went through this all once before (different batch of Clown Loaches
which I sadly lost while on holiday). Perseverance was the answer, along
with regular water changes and lots of gravel vaccuuming. I found the
following article useful:-

http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/freshref/ich.html

Good luck with your Clowns

Gill

[Victor Martinez]

jim wrote:
> Any opinions on what to do?

Old-formula maracide by Mardel labs.


--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[jim]

"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> jim wrote:
>> Any opinions on what to do?
>
> Old-formula maracide by Mardel labs.

Thanks for the reply. I don't think the old formula is available anymore in
the US, is this correct?

I also have some CopperSafe on hand but am a little nervous about using it
with the soft water.

[jim]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Got the same problem with my Clowns so you have my sympathy :-( We can't
> get Rid Ich in the UK so I have tried both products that are available
> (Interpet Anti White Spot and Protozin) and neither are shifting it. I'm
> about to redose with Protozin once it the tank is clear of the previous
> doses (carbon in filter and water changes).
>
> Have you tried raising the temperature and adding salt? I've got mine up
> at 31C at the moment and have been adding 1tsp per gallon of the water I
> remove...
>
> Two of my Clowns are now clear (after around 2 weeks of treating) but the
> other three are still not good.
>
> I went through this all once before (different batch of Clown Loaches
> which I sadly lost while on holiday). Perseverance was the answer, along
> with regular water changes and lots of gravel vaccuuming. I found the
> following article useful:-
>
> http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/freshref/ich.html
>
> Good luck with your Clowns
>
> Gill

Thanks for the response and article link, and I hope your clowns make it
through as well.

I haven't tried raising the temp and adding salt. I've seen mixed opinions
about doing this. I may have to resort to it though.

[Justice]

jim wrote:
> I bought 4 clown loaches 3 weeks ago and they developed Ich 2 weeks ago.
> Upon seeing the spots, I immediately began treating with Rid Ich (formalin,
> malachite green). I have been treating every other day at slightly less
> than the recommended 1 tsp/10gal dosage. The loaches do not show any signs
> of being adversely affected by the treatment but unfortunately it seems to
> be doing no good in getting rid of the Ich.
>
> The loaches are in a 10 gal quarantine tank.
>
> The water has low KH (2) and medium GH (8-9).
> pH is 7.0
> Ammonia/Nitrite are 0
> Nitrate is very low as I've been doing 40% water changes before each
> treatment.
>
> I've been feeding with freeze dried bloodworms. The loaches eat very well
> and always have excellent appetite. One of the loaches is showing signs of
> weakening with ripped fins.
>
> Any opinions on what to do?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Jim
>
>
I had this problem a couple of weeks ago. I used super velvet or
somthing like that and I cranked the temp to 30c it was gone in about 4
doses(bottle says 3)

[Dr.]

"jim" > wrote in message
m...
>I bought 4 clown loaches 3 weeks ago and they developed Ich 2 weeks ago.
>Upon seeing the spots, I immediately began treating with Rid Ich

The ICH life cycle advances slower at lower temps. What you want to watch
for is *new* spots. The medication doesn't remove the spots from the fish,
and the dosage instructions on the medication bottles are usually faulty.
The spots will disappear when the ICH has feasted on your fish to it's
satisfaction, and falls to the substrate to form a cyst in which it will
reproduce. Once it forms this cyst, medication will have no affect on it
until it is ripe with ICH offspring and bursts, releasing them into the
water. It's all timing. you want the medication in the water when this
occurs. Which also varies due to temperature. The higher the temp, the
faster the ICH life cycle will progress. Temps of 86F or higher will kill
just about all strains of ICH. I successfully treated it twice with Clown
Loaches with a temp treatment of 88F for a 3 week period.

If you decide to go this route, jack the temp up. The Loaches can handle it.
Mine were actually more active at the higher temp. After the 3 weeks, or
whatever period you choose, lower the temp very slowly. Fish don't take too
well to a quick decrease in temp. Make sure you have plenty of surface
movement. Higher temp = less oxygen in the water. And make sure to keep the
tank clean. Gravel vac and change 20% water every 2-3 days will help. Watch
close for new spots. Once the ones on the fish are gone, remember the ICH
might just be in it's reproduction stage, so the fun isn't quite over
necessarily.

In one issue of TFH, I read an article recommending a 95F temp treatmend for
3 weeks to rid Clowns of ICH!

Do a google search on "ICH life cycle". There are a lot of articles on the
net that helped me understand exactly what I was dealing with.

Good luck,
Gary

[Elaine T]

jim wrote:
> "Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>jim wrote:
>>
>>>Any opinions on what to do?
>>
>>Old-formula maracide by Mardel labs.
>
>
> Thanks for the reply. I don't think the old formula is available anymore in
> the US, is this correct?
>
> I also have some CopperSafe on hand but am a little nervous about using it
> with the soft water.
>
>
Here's an article on dosing copper with a formula for how much to use
depending on your alkalinity.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA008

Another ich treatment you might be able to use is potassium
permanganate. I've never used it on loaches myself - just throwing it
out as a possibility.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Victor Martinez]

jim wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. I don't think the old formula is available anymore in
> the US, is this correct?

I think you can still buy it from Big Al's Online, that's where I got
mine from.

> I also have some CopperSafe on hand but am a little nervous about using it
> with the soft water.

Did you read the ich discussion on loaches.com?
http://loaches.com/copper.html

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[jim]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
t...
>
> Here's an article on dosing copper with a formula for how much to use
> depending on your alkalinity.
>
> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA008
>
> Another ich treatment you might be able to use is potassium permanganate.
> I've never used it on loaches myself - just throwing it out as a
> possibility.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Thanks a lot for that link. Very useful. I'm going to try the copper at a
very low dosage based upon the equation in the article.

Now why doesn't the CopperSafe bottle include that information? That sounds
like the reason you read about so many fish kills with copper.

[Steve]

jim wrote:
> I bought 4 clown loaches 3 weeks ago and they developed Ich 2 weeks ago.
> Upon seeing the spots, I immediately began treating with Rid Ich (formalin,
> malachite green). I have been treating every other day at slightly less
> than the recommended 1 tsp/10gal dosage. The loaches do not show any signs
> of being adversely affected by the treatment but unfortunately it seems to
> be doing no good in getting rid of the Ich.
>
> The loaches are in a 10 gal quarantine tank.
>
> The water has low KH (2) and medium GH (8-9).
> pH is 7.0
> Ammonia/Nitrite are 0
> Nitrate is very low as I've been doing 40% water changes before each
> treatment.
>
> I've been feeding with freeze dried bloodworms. The loaches eat very well
> and always have excellent appetite. One of the loaches is showing signs of
> weakening with ripped fins.
>
> Any opinions on what to do?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Jim
>
>

I've successfully used a commercial remedy containing formalin and green
dye, together with raised temperature of 80 - 95 degrees F and lots of
water changes/ bottom vacuuming. I used the medication at 1/2 strength,
I believe, because of warnings about "scale-less" fish and tetras (had
some neons).

This was a long time ago and I don't remember the brand names of the
medicines; however I've had 2 ich outbreaks in the last 14 years and
both times sought out a formalin-based remedy. The first ich outbreak,
my (new) clown loaches were affected and recovered. In the second
outbreak many years later, my (well-established) clown loaches were
unaffected.

I did not use a quarantine tank, but medicated my 90-gal community/
plant aqurium. The silicone still has a faint green tinge resulting from
the medications :) . Hope this helps...
Steve

[Steve]

Steve wrote:

>
> I've successfully used a commercial remedy containing formalin and green
> dye, together with raised temperature of 80 - 95 degrees F and lots of
> water changes/ bottom vacuuming. I used the medication at 1/2 strength,
> I believe, because of warnings about "scale-less" fish and tetras (had
> some neons).

That's 80-85 degrees!
Steve

[Gill Passman]

Steve wrote:
> jim wrote:
>
>> I bought 4 clown loaches 3 weeks ago and they developed Ich 2 weeks
>> ago. Upon seeing the spots, I immediately began treating with Rid Ich
>> (formalin, malachite green). I have been treating every other day at
>> slightly less than the recommended 1 tsp/10gal dosage. The loaches do
>> not show any signs of being adversely affected by the treatment but
>> unfortunately it seems to be doing no good in getting rid of the Ich.
>>
>> The loaches are in a 10 gal quarantine tank.
>>
>> The water has low KH (2) and medium GH (8-9).
>> pH is 7.0
>> Ammonia/Nitrite are 0
>> Nitrate is very low as I've been doing 40% water changes before each
>> treatment.
>>
>> I've been feeding with freeze dried bloodworms. The loaches eat very
>> well and always have excellent appetite. One of the loaches is
>> showing signs of weakening with ripped fins.
>>
>> Any opinions on what to do?
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>> Jim
>>
>>
>
> I've successfully used a commercial remedy containing formalin and green
> dye, together with raised temperature of 80 - 95 degrees F and lots of
> water changes/ bottom vacuuming. I used the medication at 1/2 strength,
> I believe, because of warnings about "scale-less" fish and tetras (had
> some neons).
>
> This was a long time ago and I don't remember the brand names of the
> medicines; however I've had 2 ich outbreaks in the last 14 years and
> both times sought out a formalin-based remedy. The first ich outbreak,
> my (new) clown loaches were affected and recovered. In the second
> outbreak many years later, my (well-established) clown loaches were
> unaffected.
>
> I did not use a quarantine tank, but medicated my 90-gal community/
> plant aqurium. The silicone still has a faint green tinge resulting from
> the medications :) . Hope this helps...
> Steve

I've actually found that existing fish in the tank show some sort of
immunity to Ich (including Clown Loaches)...it might be in their gills
possibly but I've got fish that have survived multiple outbreaks. Some
fish seem to recover quicker than others....some seem to develop a
resistance to certain treatments which is why I alternate between two. I
just hate all these problems with Clown Loaches - but I love them as
fish so what do you do?????

Salt, high temps, meds and lots of water changes and gravel vacs....I
also choose to give a high protein diet (along the lines of your Gran
feeding Chicken Soup I guess) and I have heard lessening the stress in
the tank (lights out or less footfall and plenty of hiding places) can
help but I'm not sure that I am convinced about anything when fighting
this.....oh yeah, and determintation to beat it helps as well....

Gill

[jim]

I would like to thank everyone for their input. Very good advice. I'm
going to try the copper treatment at the level recommended for my very low
alkalinity water. Hopefully this will cure the persistent ich.

It seems like whenever I purchase new fish, ich becomes a problem.
Otherwise, I can go years without seeing it. It's really discouraging.

[Elaine T]

jim wrote:
> I would like to thank everyone for their input. Very good advice. I'm
> going to try the copper treatment at the level recommended for my very low
> alkalinity water. Hopefully this will cure the persistent ich.
>
> It seems like whenever I purchase new fish, ich becomes a problem.
> Otherwise, I can go years without seeing it. It's really discouraging.
>
>
I hope the copper works for you. To prevent ich, I add some salt
(amount depends on the species) and one dose of Aquarisol to my
quarantine tank whenever I buy new fish. Then I allow water changes to
gradually dilute the salt and copper out so the fish are ready for
freshwater and no copper in the display tank 3 weeks later. My water is
quite alkaline so I have no problems with bottle-label doses of copper.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[danny]

hi,

my fish had white spot too, i lost all of them but three .

im not sure weather you can get it elswhare (hope its spelt right) than
the uk but try to find

King British, white spot treatment

after only 1 week the white spot had dissappeared completely.

anyway
good look
and i hope your clowns make it

Danny

[Gill Passman]

danny wrote:
> hi,
>
> my fish had white spot too, i lost all of them but three .
>
> im not sure weather you can get it elswhare (hope its spelt right) than
> the uk but try to find
>
> King British, white spot treatment
>
> after only 1 week the white spot had dissappeared completely.
>
> anyway
> good look
> and i hope your clowns make it
>
> Danny
>
Thanks for that Danny. I did a quick google and have found a company
that supplies not only this (King British White Spot Treatment) but also
RidIch which our American friends on this newsgroup have such good
results with. For future reference the link is:-

http://www.edkins.com/

Will be doing some further browsing on their site and then will place an
order....neither Protozin or Interpet Anti White Spot is working so it's
got to be worth a shot...

Gill

[danny]

thanks loads for that site,
im gonna use that every time ive got a problem now.

Danny, :)

[Dan Drake]

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:57:07 UTC, "jim" > wrote:

> I would like to thank everyone for their input. Very good advice. I'm
> going to try the copper treatment at the level recommended for my very low
> alkalinity water. Hopefully this will cure the persistent ich.
>
> It seems like whenever I purchase new fish, ich becomes a problem.
> Otherwise, I can go years without seeing it. It's really discouraging.

Not practical advice for everyone, but for what it's worth--

I assume that any new clown loach, and maybe any new loach, will develop
ich. When I bought them (haven't bought any recently) I would routinely
put them by themselves in a quarantine tank at elevated temperature and
keep them under observation. If (I should say, When) spots start to show,
hit them immediately with the medication.

By the way, no one seems to have mentioned Clout(tm). Is that a no-no for
loaches?


--
Dan Drake

http://www.dandrake.com/
porlockjr.blogspot.com

[Lord Don]

clouts a bit strong dont you think?


"Dan Drake" > wrote in message
news:vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-qRqr488JWEJ2@localhost...
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:57:07 UTC, "jim" > wrote:
>
>> I would like to thank everyone for their input. Very good advice. I'm
>> going to try the copper treatment at the level recommended for my very
>> low
>> alkalinity water. Hopefully this will cure the persistent ich.
>>
>> It seems like whenever I purchase new fish, ich becomes a problem.
>> Otherwise, I can go years without seeing it. It's really discouraging.
>
> Not practical advice for everyone, but for what it's worth--
>
> I assume that any new clown loach, and maybe any new loach, will develop
> ich. When I bought them (haven't bought any recently) I would routinely
> put them by themselves in a quarantine tank at elevated temperature and
> keep them under observation. If (I should say, When) spots start to show,
> hit them immediately with the medication.
>
> By the way, no one seems to have mentioned Clout(tm). Is that a no-no for
> loaches?
>
>
> --
> Dan Drake
>
> http://www.dandrake.com/
> porlockjr.blogspot.com