This why there is westnile virus in TN

[ThunderKoi]

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy

[~ jan jjspond]

Title should read: This is why we pond.

Ponds with fish do not cause West Nile. Even if the fish didn't eat all the
larvae, the water is hardly stagnant. Stagnant/still water is the preferred
place for mosquitos to lay eggs.

> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy

Some nice pictures. Ponds and fish looking really good and enjoyed the
aquarium page too. ~ jan

[Derek Broughton]

~ jan jjspond wrote:

> Title should read: This is why we pond.
>
> Ponds with fish do not cause West Nile. Even if the fish didn't eat all
> the larvae, the water is hardly stagnant. Stagnant/still water is the
> preferred place for mosquitos to lay eggs.

I agree with you that ponds don't cause West Nile. I'd like to see a study
that actually compares mosquito populations near ornamental - fish filled -
ponds to populations near standing water without fish. I think (but have
no data to back it up) that the populations would be lower. I believe that
mosquitos will preferentially choose our ponds (better than a puddle that
might dry up) but that the larvae won't survive, thus lowering the overall
numbers in the area.

I do, though, disagree that the water is not still enough for mosquitos.
The average pond - except in the _immediate_ vicinity of a waterfall or
skimmer is very close to static. Fountains would make the environment
completely unacceptable to mosquitos, but most ponds move at a very slow
rate compared to streams, not fast enough to disturb the surface tension
which is what really matters to the larvae.

In any case, mosquito larvae don't reach maturity in a pond with koi or
goldfish unless the fish are being seriously overfed :-)
--
derek

[~ jan jjspond]

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:43:34 -0300, Derek Broughton >
wrote:

>I do, though, disagree that the water is not still enough for mosquitos.
>The average pond - except in the _immediate_ vicinity of a waterfall or
>skimmer is very close to static.

I think flow fools the eye, but I am thinking of ponds that turn over once
an hour. Even my ponds, with that turn over rate, still do have what
"appear" to be quiet areas, BUT, watercress grows real well in those areas,
and it is a heavy feeder and needs moving water. So end, that is my theory,
listed under "Still Waters Run Deep" (and fast). ~ jan :) ~ jan

[Reel Mckoi]

"Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
...
> I agree with you that ponds don't cause West Nile.

$ I'm wondering about all the stock ponds of farms as far as West Nile goes.
These still ponds are breeding grounds for mosquitoes all over my state.
Thick with algae, usually fishless and warmed by the sun, they're excellent
for raising the mosquito population. I've tried to inoculate the one next
to us (he raises cattle) with cull goldfish, but the predators get the fish
in days.

I'd like to see a study
> that actually compares mosquito populations near ornamental - fish
> filled -
> ponds to populations near standing water without fish. I think (but have
> no data to back it up) that the populations would be lower. I believe
> that
> mosquitos will preferentially choose our ponds (better than a puddle that
> might dry up) but that the larvae won't survive, thus lowering the overall
> numbers in the area.

$ I've seen mosquito larvae in the saucers under my porch plants. I don't
think, from what I have seen, that the female mosquito is aware of the
amount of water she's laying her eggs on. But where there are mosquitoes
there are their predators such as spiders and dragon flies. Their
population has grown quite large around the propagation tubs behind our
house. I try to keep at least one small GF in each tub but sometimes the
frogs get these.

> I do, though, disagree that the water is not still enough for mosquitos.
> The average pond - except in the _immediate_ vicinity of a waterfall or
> skimmer is very close to static. Fountains would make the environment
> completely unacceptable to mosquitos, but most ponds move at a very slow
> rate compared to streams, not fast enough to disturb the surface tension
> which is what really matters to the larvae.
>
> In any case, mosquito larvae don't reach maturity in a pond with koi or
> goldfish unless the fish are being seriously overfed :-)

$ I agree with that! :-)
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:35:48 -0500, "Reel Mckoi" > wrote:

>$ I'm wondering about all the stock ponds of farms as far as West Nile goes.
>These still ponds are breeding grounds for mosquitoes all over my state.
>Thick with algae, usually fishless and warmed by the sun, they're excellent
>for raising the mosquito population. I've tried to inoculate the one next
>to us (he raises cattle) with cull goldfish, but the predators get the fish
>in days.

When I moved up here (Suwannee County in northern Florida) I thought
mosquitoes would be a real problem, being as how there are three rather
large ponds here. The one in the back has fish in it, I've seen them, and
my brother has too and he tells me that they are the kind that eat mosquito
larvae. The pond in front I haven't seen any fish in, but I don't really
know if it has any fish or not. The pond by my house looks like it could
dry completely up (the water is very low in it right now, I've seen it 3-4
feet higher). The funny thing is, I have had hardly any mosquito problems
up here. When I lived in a much drier area, about two hours south of here,
I could hardly walk to my mailbox without being attacked by mosquitoes some
days. But here I've gone almost an entire year without wearing any kind of
bug repellent. I have no idea why.

>$ I've seen mosquito larvae in the saucers under my porch plants. I don't
>think, from what I have seen, that the female mosquito is aware of the
>amount of water she's laying her eggs on. But where there are mosquitoes
>there are their predators such as spiders and dragon flies. Their
>population has grown quite large around the propagation tubs behind our
>house. I try to keep at least one small GF in each tub but sometimes the
>frogs get these.

I have a cooler that has cup holders molded into the lid that sits outside.
After a rain, the cup holders fill with rain water and sure enough there
are soon little wiggling mosquito larvae in them. I dump them out then
because I like to know that I have killed mosquito larvae, a joy I wouldn't
get if I just dumped them out before eggs got laid. I do keep a close eye
on them and believe me, none of the larvae make it. There is another tub
out by one of the sheds that fills up with rain water too, but it never,
ever has mosquito larvae in it. Again, I have no idea why.

I've got oodles of spiders and dragonflies and frogs. Lots and lots of
frogs. All the way from the little tiny frogs that sit on my windows at
night and eat bugs attracted by the inside lights to big frogs that sit out
by the pond that are seldom seen but can sure make themselves heard. Maybe
having lots of predators that eat the adults keeps the bugs down even
though breeding conditions seem quite ideal.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Hell hath no fury like a bird in the hand.

[Reel Mckoi]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:35:48 -0500, "Reel Mckoi" > wrote:
>
>>$ I'm wondering about all the stock ponds of farms as far as West Nile
>>goes.
>>These still ponds are breeding grounds for mosquitoes all over my state.
>>Thick with algae, usually fishless and warmed by the sun, they're
>>excellent
>>for raising the mosquito population. I've tried to inoculate the one
>>next
>>to us (he raises cattle) with cull goldfish, but the predators get the
>>fish
>>in days.
==========
> When I moved up here (Suwannee County in northern Florida) I thought
> mosquitoes would be a real problem, being as how there are three rather
> large ponds here. The one in the back has fish in it, I've seen them, and
> my brother has too and he tells me that they are the kind that eat
> mosquito
> larvae. The pond in front I haven't seen any fish in, but I don't really
> know if it has any fish or not. The pond by my house looks like it could
> dry completely up (the water is very low in it right now, I've seen it 3-4
> feet higher). The funny thing is, I have had hardly any mosquito problems
> up here. When I lived in a much drier area, about two hours south of
> here,
> I could hardly walk to my mailbox without being attacked by mosquitoes
> some
> days. But here I've gone almost an entire year without wearing any kind
> of
> bug repellent. I have no idea why.

$$ Perhaps the town sprayed the area? I heard on the News some areas were
spraying to keep their population down. I have more of a problem here with
small black biting flies than mosquitoes. These things are horrible. It's
a stinging bite that leave a itchy bump. If you stop moving for a few
seconds they'll be all over any exposed skin, especially around your legs.
I buy a lot of Deep-Woods-Off every summer. We don't know where they're
breeding, in what - or where they're coming from. They're really bad around
the tubs and pools in early summer.

>>$ I've seen mosquito larvae in the saucers under my porch plants. I don't
>>think, from what I have seen, that the female mosquito is aware of the
>>amount of water she's laying her eggs on. But where there are mosquitoes
>>there are their predators such as spiders and dragon flies. Their
>>population has grown quite large around the propagation tubs behind our
>>house. I try to keep at least one small GF in each tub but sometimes the
>>frogs get these.

> I have a cooler that has cup holders molded into the lid that sits
> outside.
> After a rain, the cup holders fill with rain water and sure enough there
> are soon little wiggling mosquito larvae in them. I dump them out then
> because I like to know that I have killed mosquito larvae, a joy I
> wouldn't
> get if I just dumped them out before eggs got laid. I do keep a close eye
> on them and believe me, none of the larvae make it. There is another tub
> out by one of the sheds that fills up with rain water too, but it never,
> ever has mosquito larvae in it. Again, I have no idea why.

$$ That is odd... anything that holds water here is soon crawling with
their larvae.

> I've got oodles of spiders and dragonflies and frogs. Lots and lots of
> frogs. All the way from the little tiny frogs that sit on my windows at
> night and eat bugs attracted by the inside lights to big frogs that sit
> out
> by the pond that are seldom seen but can sure make themselves heard.
> Maybe
> having lots of predators that eat the adults keeps the bugs down even
> though breeding conditions seem quite ideal.

$$ That's possible. I have those small green frogs on my windows as well.
:-) They stick to the glass and gobble anything that comes along. Mostly
moths. I forgot to add their picture to my pond webpages.

Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:58:57 -0500, "Reel Mckoi" > wrote:

>$$ Perhaps the town sprayed the area? I heard on the News some areas were
>spraying to keep their population down.

I doubt it. I live in a pretty rural area, a good ways outside the city
limits. And the "city" (also the county seat) isn't very big. I don't
think Suwannee County has a big enough city to even afford a spraying
program.

>I have more of a problem here with
>small black biting flies than mosquitoes. These things are horrible. It's
>a stinging bite that leave a itchy bump. If you stop moving for a few
>seconds they'll be all over any exposed skin, especially around your legs.
>I buy a lot of Deep-Woods-Off every summer. We don't know where they're
>breeding, in what - or where they're coming from. They're really bad around
>the tubs and pools in early summer.

I've pretty much taking to using the Ultrathon (that's a 3M trademark, but
you can get it lots of places, REI, Wal Mart, etc.), the lotion stuff, not
the spray they have out now. It goes on like suntan lotion, and will
disappear after a bit of rubbing, While it does have DEET (like 32%) it is
in some kind of "encapsulated" form, allowing one application to last 12
hours (so they claim. My experience has been about 8). It is supposed to
be fairly waterproof and sweatproof too, at least that has been my
experience. I get a little rattled by most DEET products, but this doesn't
seem to bother me. Like I say though, I haven't had to use it here at all.
Boy I sure do up at my brother's place up in North Carolina.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Hell hath no fury like a bird in the hand.

[Reel Mckoi]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:58:57 -0500, "Reel Mckoi" > wrote:
>
>>$$ Perhaps the town sprayed the area? I heard on the News some areas were
>>spraying to keep their population down.
>
> I doubt it. I live in a pretty rural area, a good ways outside the city
> limits. And the "city" (also the county seat) isn't very big. I don't
> think Suwannee County has a big enough city to even afford a spraying
> program.

## They don't spray the rural areas where I live either.

> I've pretty much taking to using the Ultrathon (that's a 3M trademark, but
> you can get it lots of places, REI, Wal Mart, etc.), the lotion stuff, not
> the spray they have out now. It goes on like suntan lotion, and will
> disappear after a bit of rubbing, While it does have DEET (like 32%) it
> is
> in some kind of "encapsulated" form, allowing one application to last 12
> hours (so they claim. My experience has been about 8). It is supposed to
> be fairly waterproof and sweatproof too, at least that has been my
> experience. I get a little rattled by most DEET products, but this
> doesn't
> seem to bother me. Like I say though, I haven't had to use it here at
> all.
> Boy I sure do up at my brother's place up in North Carolina.

## I'll look for that one the next trip to town. I would rather use a
lotion as the sprays seem kind of wasteful. I never looked at the other
products. I'd just toss the Deep-Woods-Off in my shopping cart......

--
Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

It is true that ponds with fish arent much of a source of mosquitoes, at least not
those ponds that are overstocked. Open water in general is not prime for mosquitoes.
Swamps are prime for mosquitoes, still water with small pockets where there arent
predators but plenty of food for larvae.
we started using the mosquito eater thing because the house was on a hill above a
swamp. it did its job collected thousands of mosquitoes (females attracted to heat
and CO2 preferentially). But I also know that the city has been spraying Bt israeli
since the issue of West Nile became a problem (I advised the local DNR this was the
best way to proceed) and the overall mosquito problem has abated. Part of the reason
is the bacteria also mutates so if the skeeters are mutating to be resistant the
bacteria can keep up.
Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[Derek Broughton]

wrote:

> It is true that ponds with fish arent much of a source of mosquitoes, at
> least not
> those ponds that are overstocked. Open water in general is not prime for
> mosquitoes. Swamps are prime for mosquitoes, still water with small
> pockets where there arent predators but plenty of food for larvae.
> we started using the mosquito eater thing because the house was on a hill
> above a
> swamp. it did its job collected thousands of mosquitoes (females
> attracted to heat
> and CO2 preferentially). But I also know that the city has been spraying
> Bt israeli since the issue of West Nile became a problem (I advised the
> local DNR this was the
> best way to proceed) and the overall mosquito problem has abated. Part of
> the reason is the bacteria also mutates so if the skeeters are mutating to
> be resistant the bacteria can keep up.

Mutate? Ingrid, you went on a two-week rant when I suggested that bacteria
could actually develop resistance, but you have no problem believing that
they can mutate to _overcome_ resistance?
--
derek

[[email protected]]

of course bacteria mutate, it is an arms race in the microbial world.

I am not sure what "rant" you are talking about... salt? In that case I said it just
doesnt matter if bacteria are resistant to salt. it is like saying bacteria are
resistant to calcium because treating disease with calcium is useless.... as is
treating disease with salt.

however, not all bacteria develop resistance to the same thing, and some things not
at all or so rarely it doesnt count. example: until recently strep bacteria have not
been found to be resistance to plain old penicillin, long after nearly every other
bacteria out there were resistant to it.

resistance doesnt even have to be a mutation. it can just be an existing gene
transferred by bacterial equivalent of "sex" from one species to another or within a
species. Ingrid

Derek Broughton > wrote:
>Mutate? Ingrid, you went on a two-week rant when I suggested that bacteria
>could actually develop resistance, but you have no problem believing that
>they can mutate to _overcome_ resistance?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE