Molly questions

[FishNoob]

In my tank, there are two sailfin mollies, two black mollies and one
silver molly. There are also three fry of varying sizes, all black,
with the largest having some pale-coloured patches on its abdomen.

I know one of the fry came home from the LFS, but I don't know where
the other two came from. I've been assuming that one of the mollies
in the tank arrived pregnant, but most websites seem to say that a
pregnant molly is very *visibly* pregnant - i.e. it's not something
you'd miss - and I've not noticed any of mine looking pregnant. Is
pregnancy in a molly always unmissable? And could fry born at the
same time in the same tank grow at different rates so that they are
now quite different in size?

(It just occurred to me that maybe the largest is a male? - I'll have
to wait for it to come out and see if I can tell.)

One of the black mollies is male, one female. The male has a much
larger dorsal fin than the female. Is this a characteristic of
gender, or is it something he's acquired through breeding? When he
flares it, his dorsal fin looks almost as impressive as the male
sailfin's dorsal fin.

Behaviour - today I've noticed that the male black molly is being
very aggressive with the female black molly - prodding her to the
extent that he's actually knocked her over sometimes. He's pushing at
her just behind her anal fin. She's taken to hiding down near the
bottom of the back of the tank, which made hubby suggest that maybe
she was giving birth, but I wonder if she's just trying to get some
peace from the male LOL. She looks plumpish, but certainly doesn't
have the "almost square from the front" appearance I've seen
described on websites.

If we do get more fry (and from today's reading I think it's almost
inevitable, and yes, I can see a larger tank in my future LOL), I
know we should use a breeding trap of some kind. What kind is best? -
the nets which allow the water to flow through? - the solid perspex
kind? - the specific breeding ones that let the fry fall through into
a separate compartment from the mother? And when should I move the
mother-to-be? I know it should be as late in the pregnancy as
possible, but is there any particular kind of behaviour I should look
for?

I am really liking this fish-keeping business by the way :-)

--
FishNoob

[Jeff]

"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...

ANd to add to his OP. I have two Mollys, one Black male (The female died)
and one Red (Orange?) Female (The mail died). Can they crossbreed? And the
male is extremely agrresive with the female, wearing her out chasing her
around the tank. Is that a sign of "Mating" or "Killer Aggressiveness"?

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.


"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
>
> "FishNoob" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> ANd to add to his OP. I have two Mollys, one Black male (The female died)
> and one Red (Orange?) Female (The mail died). Can they crossbreed? And the
> male is extremely agrresive with the female, wearing her out chasing her
> around the tank. Is that a sign of "Mating" or "Killer Aggressiveness"?
>
>

It is aggressive mating. The female can potentially die from exhaustion
trying to get away, one way to prevent harm to the female is to get more
females to divert the males aggressive mating intentions. Good luck and
later!

[Gill Passman]

FishNoob wrote:
> In my tank, there are two sailfin mollies, two black mollies and one
> silver molly. There are also three fry of varying sizes, all black,
> with the largest having some pale-coloured patches on its abdomen.
>
> I know one of the fry came home from the LFS, but I don't know where
> the other two came from. I've been assuming that one of the mollies
> in the tank arrived pregnant, but most websites seem to say that a
> pregnant molly is very *visibly* pregnant - i.e. it's not something
> you'd miss - and I've not noticed any of mine looking pregnant. Is
> pregnancy in a molly always unmissable? And could fry born at the
> same time in the same tank grow at different rates so that they are
> now quite different in size?
>
> (It just occurred to me that maybe the largest is a male? - I'll have
> to wait for it to come out and see if I can tell.)
>
> One of the black mollies is male, one female. The male has a much
> larger dorsal fin than the female. Is this a characteristic of
> gender, or is it something he's acquired through breeding? When he
> flares it, his dorsal fin looks almost as impressive as the male
> sailfin's dorsal fin.
>
> Behaviour - today I've noticed that the male black molly is being
> very aggressive with the female black molly - prodding her to the
> extent that he's actually knocked her over sometimes. He's pushing at
> her just behind her anal fin. She's taken to hiding down near the
> bottom of the back of the tank, which made hubby suggest that maybe
> she was giving birth, but I wonder if she's just trying to get some
> peace from the male LOL. She looks plumpish, but certainly doesn't
> have the "almost square from the front" appearance I've seen
> described on websites.
>
> If we do get more fry (and from today's reading I think it's almost
> inevitable, and yes, I can see a larger tank in my future LOL), I
> know we should use a breeding trap of some kind. What kind is best? -
> the nets which allow the water to flow through? - the solid perspex
> kind? - the specific breeding ones that let the fry fall through into
> a separate compartment from the mother? And when should I move the
> mother-to-be? I know it should be as late in the pregnancy as
> possible, but is there any particular kind of behaviour I should look
> for?
>
> I am really liking this fish-keeping business by the way :-)
>

The first thing to realise is this is just the start....Mollies plus
water equal lots of Mollies....with your first born you will do anything
to raise them (yep I have a breeder trap I no longer use) - eventually
you get overrun with fry...start believing in survival of the fittest -
I know it sounds mean but what else are you going to do with them - you
might get a bit of credit for them if you can grow them to a decent size
but that means a major investment in tanks and time....I know this
sounds mean but been there and done it....I love having the babies but
the ones that are kept now are the ones that can survive in the
tank...plenty of plants and hiding places...I've recently gained 3
rapidly growing platys in my largest community tank - the rainbows keep
trying but the Clown Loaches keep saying "lunch" - lol

Right, to give you an example of the problems with fry....look at
this....I have an African Malawi tank...the fish are at it like
rabbits...they have overstocked themselves to the degree that nitrites
are rising (put in a Fluval 4 plus to go with the Fluval 304 tonight to
attempt to control it). I am doing twice weekly 20% changes just to keep
life under control. And two days ago one of my Yellow Labs released at
least 5 that I can see which means there are more - these fish are still
only around a year old - as they mature their capacity to breed
increases....I need to take in the fish for credit and have been offered
20% of sale price if I can grow them big enough and they aren't mutts
(well known problem with Mbunas) but some of them I know for sure are
pure breds.....

Mollies, Platys or in fact any livebearers are so easy to breed there is
no market for them....I've traded mine for Otos (when I hit it lucky and
it was around 30 of them) or merely a thermometer....

But yeah, it is great to know that you have created an environment where
your fish feel happy enough to breed - nothing can take that away...In
spite of what I have just said I love watching my Mbuna's interracting
at all levels with the fry, juvs, almost adults and the real grown ups...

Fish breeding and growing up in your tanks to adult hood are part of the
pleasure of keeping them.....all I have found is that a little realism
of the scale of the probelm can quite quickly overwhelm you.....eg. my
Mbunas.

Really, what I am saying, is let your fish breed, give plenty of cover
for the fry to survive (unless you want to do it commercially you will
never cope with doing it properly - ie. breeder tanks, grow out tanks
etc). You will get the pleasure of raising some of them without being
overwelmed and you might also get some credit when you trade them
in....(fish food, new tanks etc cost a lot)...

I am so happy you are settling in to this hobby. Research and questions
show that a passion rather than a passing phase.....I'm alreay a sad
muppet with this and don't really have as much to offer as some of the
more experienced on this group....

Gill

[NetMax]

"FishNoob" > wrote in message
...
> In my tank, there are two sailfin mollies, two black mollies and one
> silver molly. There are also three fry of varying sizes, all black,
> with the largest having some pale-coloured patches on its abdomen.
>
> I know one of the fry came home from the LFS, but I don't know where
> the other two came from. I've been assuming that one of the mollies
> in the tank arrived pregnant, but most websites seem to say that a
> pregnant molly is very *visibly* pregnant - i.e. it's not something
> you'd miss - and I've not noticed any of mine looking pregnant.
> Is pregnancy in a molly always unmissable?

I'll do my best here, but I have no great depth of experience with
Mollies. Female mollies, like all livebearers are basically always
pregnant. Even without any males around, they can still have their
monthly deliveries for many months. Whether they really looked very
pregnant would depend on their age, the number of developing fry and
whether they had already started dropping fry (doesn't happen all at
once). You will have to take the web site reading with a grain of salt.

>And could fry born at the
> same time in the same tank grow at different rates so that they are
> now quite different in size?

Completely normal for fry to develop at different rates. Sometimes the
advantage is initially being smaller, sometimes larger, so for the
statistical probability of success, they are born at different times, in
different places and grow at different rates. Also the difference in
growth rate can be attributed to the quality of their early meals.

> (It just occurred to me that maybe the largest is a male? - I'll have
> to wait for it to come out and see if I can tell.)
>
> One of the black mollies is male, one female. The male has a much
> larger dorsal fin than the female. Is this a characteristic of
> gender, or is it something he's acquired through breeding?

As far as I remember, it's not a fool-proof characteristic, but very
often accurate. Sailfins are more predictable in this regard.

> When he
> flares it, his dorsal fin looks almost as impressive as the male
> sailfin's dorsal fin.
>
> Behaviour - today I've noticed that the male black molly is being
> very aggressive with the female black molly - prodding her to the
> extent that he's actually knocked her over sometimes. He's pushing at
> her just behind her anal fin. She's taken to hiding down near the
> bottom of the back of the tank, which made hubby suggest that maybe
> she was giving birth, but I wonder if she's just trying to get some
> peace from the male LOL. She looks plumpish, but certainly doesn't
> have the "almost square from the front" appearance I've seen
> described on websites.

Mollies can be quite agressive with their females, so having larger
planted tanks with many more females than males is the recommendation,
however in a large planted tank and any degree of success, you will be
over run with Mollies who will not respect your male-female ratio. It's
good to keep them with carnivores, such as small African cichlids who
will do their part in controlling the population explosion. Both these
fish like harder water with higher pH.

> If we do get more fry (and from today's reading I think it's almost
> inevitable, and yes, I can see a larger tank in my future LOL), I
> know we should use a breeding trap of some kind. What kind is best? -
> the nets which allow the water to flow through? - the solid perspex
> kind? - the specific breeding ones that let the fry fall through into
> a separate compartment from the mother? And when should I move the
> mother-to-be? I know it should be as late in the pregnancy as
> possible, but is there any particular kind of behaviour I should look
> for?

Breeding traps are more suitable for the smaller livebearers like Guppies
and Platys. I would simply let the fry run around your community tank.
You can adjust the survival rate by adding/removing their primary cover
spots (ie: floating Hornwort, rockpiles, dense vegetation etc).

> I am really liking this fish-keeping business by the way :-)

It does kind of get a little addictive ;~).

========

For Jeff (don't delete the OP if you want both easily answered), there
are several species of Mollies (sailfins: Mollienesia velifera &
latipinna, and common: sphenops & latipunctata and lesser seen caucana).
I don't know if they would cross-bred, but I suspect that they would.
Charles might be able to correct or clarify my comments and probably
dated sci-names.

The males will drive females to death in small tanks as they can be quite
agressive. With other livebearers, the Guppy and Swordtail females are
larger, and Platys are less agressive and slower. With Mollies, the male
can be the same size, and a powerful swimmer.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
> FishNoob

[Daniel Morrow]

Mid posted.


"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> For Jeff (don't delete the OP if you want both easily answered), there
> are several species of Mollies (sailfins: Mollienesia velifera &
> latipinna, and common: sphenops & latipunctata and lesser seen caucana).
> I don't know if they would cross-bred, but I suspect that they would.

Quote out of one of my older books - "Crosses within the bounds of a genus
are the most apt to be successful.Cases in point would be between species of
mollienisia, or between species of limia, or of platies. Such matings are
called inter-specific. In nature Mollienisia latipinna crosses freely with
m. sphenops to produce an inter-specific hybrid. The offspring are perfectly
healthy, but they appear all to be females of a type intermediate between
the parents. They once erroneously received the scientific name of
mollienisia formosa. Those females, strange to say, when mated with a male
m. latipinna, produce only females like themselves." From there it goes on
about how guppies and mollies have bred hybridized except the hybrids would
soon get tumors and from the sound of it die off otherwise unexpectedly.
Good luck and later!


> Charles might be able to correct or clarify my comments and probably
> dated sci-names.
>
> The males will drive females to death in small tanks as they can be quite
> agressive. With other livebearers, the Guppy and Swordtail females are
> larger, and Platys are less agressive and slower. With Mollies, the male
> can be the same size, and a powerful swimmer.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
> > --
> > FishNoob
>
>

[FishNoob]

In article >,
says...
> The first thing to realise is this is just the start....Mollies plus
> water equal lots of Mollies....with your first born you will do anything
> to raise them (yep I have a breeder trap I no longer use)

Send it to me ;-)

> - eventually
> you get overrun with fry...start believing in survival of the fittest -
> I know it sounds mean but what else are you going to do with them

I'm sure you're right, but I think it would be worth our while
tending one or two lots of babies, just for the interest factor
(particularly for kids, but also for me LOL).

> But yeah, it is great to know that you have created an environment where
> your fish feel happy enough to breed - nothing can take that away...

Yes, that's definitely a good feeling - seeing that the fish are
happy and doing what comes naturally :-D. I'm really pleased at how
our tank has come on now - all the chemical levels are good, the
water is crystal-clear, the fish are all brightly-coloured and active
and look healthy.

> In
> spite of what I have just said I love watching my Mbuna's interracting
> at all levels with the fry, juvs, almost adults and the real grown ups...

Yep, it's really interesting to watch the interactions. Even hubby,
who tends towards the cynical, hard-hearted side when it comes to
non-human animals, is getting into it LOL

> Really, what I am saying, is let your fish breed, give plenty of cover
> for the fry to survive

What kind of cover is good? Is there anything besides plants that
you'd recommend?

> I am so happy you are settling in to this hobby. Research and questions
> show that a passion rather than a passing phase.....I'm alreay a sad
> muppet with this and don't really have as much to offer as some of the

I suspect I'm not far behind you in the muppet stakes LOL

--
FishNoob

[FishNoob]

In article >,
says...
> It is aggressive mating. The female can potentially die from exhaustion
> trying to get away, one way to prevent harm to the female is to get more
> females to divert the males aggressive mating intentions. Good luck and
> later!

I'm reluctant to add any more fish to the tank, as it's already
stocked to capacity. But I do think you're right that there aren't
enough females for the males. And that leads to another question:

The two black mollies are definitely one male, one female, and the
silver molly is definitely female. The large sailfin molly is
definitely a male - but I'm not so sure about the other orange-
coloured molly. I *thought* it was a female sailfin, but now I'm
wondering if it's not a sailfin at all, but rather just an orange
molly - and a male one at that.

The anal fin has the pointed appearance of the male; I had thought it
was a female because it is smaller than the male sailfin and doesn't
display the impressive dorsal fin or tail. But I'm thinking I got
that wrong.

The only other distinguishing characteristic I see is their eyes -
the smaller orange-coloured molly has black eyes, like the rest of my
mollies, but the large sailfin has red eyes. I've no idea if this is
relevant at all.

Opinions?

--
FishNoob

[Elaine T]

FishNoob wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>It is aggressive mating. The female can potentially die from exhaustion
>>trying to get away, one way to prevent harm to the female is to get more
>>females to divert the males aggressive mating intentions. Good luck and
>>later!
>
>
> I'm reluctant to add any more fish to the tank, as it's already
> stocked to capacity. But I do think you're right that there aren't
> enough females for the males. And that leads to another question:
>
> The two black mollies are definitely one male, one female, and the
> silver molly is definitely female. The large sailfin molly is
> definitely a male - but I'm not so sure about the other orange-
> coloured molly. I *thought* it was a female sailfin, but now I'm
> wondering if it's not a sailfin at all, but rather just an orange
> molly - and a male one at that.
>
> The anal fin has the pointed appearance of the male; I had thought it
> was a female because it is smaller than the male sailfin and doesn't
> display the impressive dorsal fin or tail. But I'm thinking I got
> that wrong.
>
> The only other distinguishing characteristic I see is their eyes -
> the smaller orange-coloured molly has black eyes, like the rest of my
> mollies, but the large sailfin has red eyes. I've no idea if this is
> relevant at all.
>
> Opinions?
>
If the fish has a gonopodium (the pointed anal fin used to internally
fertilie the female), it is unquestionably male. In mollies, red eyes
indicate an albino. Most mollies sold now are hybrids, particularly the
orange and black fish. However, "sailfin" mollies with a lot of P.
latipinna blood have a thick caudal peduncle and a long dorsal fin that
starts well before the anal fin. They can also grow quite large.
"Short-finned" mollies with a lot of P. sphenops blood have a thinner
caudal peducle and a short dorsal fin that starts behind the anal fin.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[FishNoob]

In article >, eetmail-
says...
> If the fish has a gonopodium (the pointed anal fin used to internally
> fertilie the female), it is unquestionably male.

Right, so what I originally thought was a female sailfin is actually
a male...um...hybrid, probably.

> In mollies, red eyes indicate an albino.

So my male sailfin is an albino. Okay.

> Most mollies sold now are hybrids, particularly the
> orange and black fish. However, "sailfin" mollies with a lot of P.
> latipinna blood have a thick caudal peduncle and a long dorsal fin that
> starts well before the anal fin. They can also grow quite large.
> "Short-finned" mollies with a lot of P. sphenops blood have a thinner
> caudal peducle and a short dorsal fin that starts behind the anal fin.

So it looks like I have:
- one fairly pure sailfin molly, who is male and albino
- one mixture molly, also male
- one (probably non-hybrid) silver molly, female
- two (probably hybrid) black mollies, one female, one male
- three fry, all either completely or mostly black, all of which look
female to me at the minute, though I can't be sure

That's two males to three females, not counting the fry. I think two
of the fry came from one of my own female mollies, the third from the
LFS, so I suppose inter-breeding isn't an issue anyway. Let's hope
they're all girls though! LOL

--
FishNoob

[Elaine T]

FishNoob wrote:
> In article >, eetmail-
> says...
>
>>If the fish has a gonopodium (the pointed anal fin used to internally
>>fertilie the female), it is unquestionably male.
>
>
> Right, so what I originally thought was a female sailfin is actually
> a male...um...hybrid, probably.
>
>
>>In mollies, red eyes indicate an albino.
>
>
> So my male sailfin is an albino. Okay.
>
>
>>Most mollies sold now are hybrids, particularly the
>>orange and black fish. However, "sailfin" mollies with a lot of P.
>>latipinna blood have a thick caudal peduncle and a long dorsal fin that
>>starts well before the anal fin. They can also grow quite large.
>>"Short-finned" mollies with a lot of P. sphenops blood have a thinner
>>caudal peducle and a short dorsal fin that starts behind the anal fin.
>
>
> So it looks like I have:
> - one fairly pure sailfin molly, who is male and albino
> - one mixture molly, also male
> - one (probably non-hybrid) silver molly, female
> - two (probably hybrid) black mollies, one female, one male
> - three fry, all either completely or mostly black, all of which look
> female to me at the minute, though I can't be sure
>
> That's two males to three females, not counting the fry. I think two
> of the fry came from one of my own female mollies, the third from the
> LFS, so I suppose inter-breeding isn't an issue anyway. Let's hope
> they're all girls though! LOL
>
Baby livebearers all start out looking like females. They develop a
gonopodium when they're a few months old. Guess you'll have to wait and
see.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

FishNoob wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>The first thing to realise is this is just the start....Mollies plus
>>water equal lots of Mollies....with your first born you will do anything
>>to raise them (yep I have a breeder trap I no longer use)
>
>
> Send it to me ;-)
>
>
>>- eventually
>>you get overrun with fry...start believing in survival of the fittest -
>>I know it sounds mean but what else are you going to do with them
>
>
> I'm sure you're right, but I think it would be worth our while
> tending one or two lots of babies, just for the interest factor
> (particularly for kids, but also for me LOL).
>
>
>>But yeah, it is great to know that you have created an environment where
>>your fish feel happy enough to breed - nothing can take that away...
>
>
> Yes, that's definitely a good feeling - seeing that the fish are
> happy and doing what comes naturally :-D. I'm really pleased at how
> our tank has come on now - all the chemical levels are good, the
> water is crystal-clear, the fish are all brightly-coloured and active
> and look healthy.
>
>
>>In
>>spite of what I have just said I love watching my Mbuna's interracting
>>at all levels with the fry, juvs, almost adults and the real grown ups...
>
>
> Yep, it's really interesting to watch the interactions. Even hubby,
> who tends towards the cynical, hard-hearted side when it comes to
> non-human animals, is getting into it LOL
>
>
>>Really, what I am saying, is let your fish breed, give plenty of cover
>>for the fry to survive
>
>
> What kind of cover is good? Is there anything besides plants that
> you'd recommend?
>
>
>>I am so happy you are settling in to this hobby. Research and questions
>>show that a passion rather than a passing phase.....I'm alreay a sad
>>muppet with this and don't really have as much to offer as some of the
>
>
> I suspect I'm not far behind you in the muppet stakes LOL
>

As well as plants you could try ornaments, driftwood, caves etc. In fact
most of the Platy fry that I've had survive have hidden out in string
algae or since I defeated the algae now in Java moss.

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner

Gill